Ashkenazi~Sefardi Customs - Marriage | Rabbi Anthony Manning

people I hope people are keeping well there's quite a lot of viruses going around at the moment hopefully you're in good health um I'd like to start by thanking our sponsors our regular sponsor for the whole of 2025 toim our sponsor BR brandit and zel benman very grateful for that sponsorship and also there's a special sponsorship today from Miriam Marvin sha I saw Mar and Marvin where are they sitting somewhere over here somewhere they were back there um sponsored by Miriam and Marvin on the Y side of Miriam's father MOS Al mamas we're great grateful for the sponsorship now uh what I'd like to do with you over the next three weeks please God is as follows in three weeks from now I'm here the next three weeks please God but then I'm traveling for two weeks so there'll be somebody else giving the shear um by kingburg or RBI sha what they'll they'll work that out um but over the next three weeks I'd like to do a series for you on an issue issues that we've never discussed before um in my share anyway uh which are as follows uh I'm involved at the moment in a few ashkanazi spari minhagim negotiations uh my niece uh who is a wonderful young lady is getting married to a wonderful young man she is ashkanazi he is Sardi um from a from a Moroccan background if I'm right um and a few issues have come up one of them is the issue of the which we're going to talk about out today um and he says look you know I'm there's no there shouldn't be a room and we'll look at that issue and the angles back and forth on that question because for in the room is very important we'll talk about that um I also had as the Director of the Mida that I run we had a young lady who was spy who married a young man who was spy which is very nice and I was involved in their wedding and then we made sh for them at the school a few days later and of course we ended up with a very complicated discussion as to can we say at the school or not there were a number of there at the the friends of the and Kal and people involved in the school and some of them said we should say CH and some of them said we can't say CH we can only say two of the Chev one person there says I'm not saying any CH there were ashim there and then we had we will talk about that many people are unaware of this and we'll talk about that today so what I'd like to do over the next few weeks is talk about some of these ashal farity issues today I'm going to be talking about specifically oh yes good reminder thank you could you please turn your phones off thank you for that that's excellent I really appreciate that thank you please turn your phones off um today I'd like to talk about some wedding issues um then next week I'd like to tackle a topic which is a big topic which I've never spoken about maybe because it's been a little bit too daunting but I'm going to get my teeth into it please God which is is the spari ashkanazi pronunciation of Hebrew and switching from one to the other so that'll take us two weeks we'll next week we'll look at the basic issues and then the following week praise God we'll look at the issue of switching back and forth we'll look at the yemenites a little bit uh this is a that's a big topic there'll be lots to do but let's look at today to start with let me stress the importance within the Jewish people of having different tribes this is not some kind of bad situation it was designed that way we're meant to have Jews under one doing different things let's start with ra on raia says what is the uniqueness that of the Jewish people that unites us it's the Torah he says number one our faith in the Jewish people is not a nation it's the Torah that unites us and since God promised us that the Jewish people will survive forever we're not going to get wiped out that's because it's because the Jewish people's Torah is as we say every day in the it is indestructible and will survive all generations we get our of survival from the Torah therefore as long as we're connected to the Torah that is our eternal you know magic if you like but as long as we're in the same Torah it doesn't matter if we have different approaches within that Torah and if you look at the differences between and people often focus on the minhag oh you're going to a if you're ashkanazi if you're not used to it it looks as though it's completely different everything looks different everything sounds different but when you scratch below the surface 95 plus percent of everything everybody's doing is exactly the same the far sidor is almost exactly the same what they're saying for the is almost exactly the same it's we focus on the differences but they're often very superficial and therefore it's important for us to start by with the idea that our Torah is one Torah we all subscribe to the same Torah um and within that we have different approaches which we'll talk about as we go through but it's important to stress that point to start with having said that the the is very keen to stress the we have to be different within different tribes I just brought you here number two definely this is the moment they're gonna have that they got up in the morning he built one under the mountain at the mountain one for everybody and people forget this at Mat he put He erected 12 different pillars in addition to the is and it says explicitly 12 for the 12 so at matur itself the Jewish people had one misb that unites them and 12 pillars that Express their uniqueness as different tribes similarly number number three the when he makes the the the you have to have the 12 Stones 12 different stones for the 12 names of the Jewish people to all engraved with the [Music] names in case you didn't think oh it's a coincidence it's 12 no 12 for the 12 and again think about this this also Unity he has the stones on his shoulders which have the names of the Jew people together on a stone and then he has the stones on the which the names of the separately the same idea that together but they're separate um similarly number four you may not have thought of this set up a court system says the Torah now what's a a means your city the sh is The City Gate you have to have a bed in at The City Gate because that's where people are coming in and out every city has to have a bed for your tribes what's I got to do with anything I've got cities the the is of the city so the ran stresses here in number five I think you can explain you can't just have AED for your city you have to have a also for the that will judge that and then you can have your and there's no difference in principle in the numbers you need 23 di of capital off and three four monetary issues the greatest legal Minds in your area they will be appointed to the tribal that did and under them you get the the more Junior if you were from I don't know modin you couldn't take your people to the bed in okay you had to go to your own City you can go to another but the tribal they can say no we are going to try this case even the individual litigants they they can say sh I want to go to the shave I want to go to the tribal bed I don't want to meaning you can't say I want to be in the bed of a different town because that's not your that's not your town but you can say I want to take it to the tribal bed and that's your right to do that and he goes on to explain because the tribal bed establishes a tribal identity and that's very very important and actually R um understood and I brought this reference to this Rim ja who is a well-known r in America in New Jersey he's actually an ashkanazi RAV of a Safar which is interesting he has a book bridging traditions where he deals with and he says that R salic understood this Raman was a mandate for each tribe to interpret the Torah in their own manner meaning they have one Torah but they have 12 different ways of interpreting it and developing it legally and don't forget we have this Pas number six its ways the Torah singular are plural ways so again it's the unity and the plurality they have to go together kazal picked up on this in areas which don't seem to be tribal and develop them number seven I'm not going to read the you know theim here when mosha wrote the saer Torah at the end of his life he said he wrote a sa Torah say number eight no he wrote 133 12 each one for a tribe and one he put as a Master Copy if anyone wanted to try and corrupt the other teachings of Tor they would find the the one they can check so again the idea that there's one in the middle which unites everybody and then there's 12 that you can have for each tribe you have to have your own safer Torah then yam number nine very interesting that God split the into says each have their own path through the yam again there's no indication of that in but when you turn toim it says there were there were lots of different splits there and I brought you the tarum yonis as well who says the same thing there in schm in number 10 at the end that he split it into 12 which is very very important because then each each tribe as they go through this amazing connection with God zean they're pointing as it were to God they're having this moment of real Revelation but each tribe is having its own Revelation and when they come out of the other end they'll say oh how was if you we we saw this well well we didn't see that we saw this we experienced it this way way and they're one but they're split into 12 it's actually very beautiful um and Thea on the uh when he talks number 11 there were 10 Miracles at the sea we we used to this from site all the different miracles of the yeah so the says the seventh of the Miracles of the sea that it was cut into 12 different units sh that each shavid could have its own path he stresses this very very beautiful so this idea of having tribes and of course today we don't have Ruben shim and Le Yuda we have andag and and religious zionists and modern Orthodox and and we like that and people sometimes say oh I don't know I can't everybody just be Jews no no they can't so they shouldn't they have to be United but they can't be uniform they're me Unity not uniformity everyone is meant to have a tribal identity ah you may turn around and say yeah but you know when messia comes we'll we'll just be Jews no look at number 12 the end of the very last of's vision of the future he talks about the the gates of the city will be how many is will be based on the names of the tribes of Israel shim SCH so fin goes through three in the north three in the East three in the South three in the west and it goes through each tribe will have its own gate in 12 gates so even when the third Bas mikdash is built there there'll be an insistence on maintaining this tribal Unity now just as a teaser for next week you may be thinking in your mind Ah that's interesting because in the m in the sixth peric it says there were 13 gates in the in the second Bas of English so why would that 13 gates in the second mikdash but only 12 gates in the third we need to talk about that next week because the 13th Gate was the gate for people who were all mixed up and didn't know what what they were doing who they were and the Aral and the Aral translates that and he says just like there were 12 gates there were 12 different gates for 12 different gates for and each different we'll talk next week about pronunciation as well each n has its own gate to get through to God he says but there are people who are all up and therefore there's a 13th Gate and he says that was his the of the because people ask you know if everybody's is fine and all God understands everybody why do you need to make up your own n meaning we've got enough thank you he goes no because my n is the is the gate for everybody and that's why by the way there is a that a sh has to have 12 Windows 12 windows in the sure there should be 12 when you're looking towards the Aron cish there should be 12 windows and very often these this is part of the Min of having the tribes know the windows but this is also this idea that there are 12 gates then they were 13 now there are 12 yes or they will be yes but well that's not entirely true I don't want to talk too much on the 10 tribes but it does say that Yia brought back the 10 tribes many of the tribes and maybe not all of them but some of them and M yobel so and maybe they'll be found again there's a whole discussion maybe they'll come back and people have been looking for them for the last 2,000 years you know they're going to come back over the sbaton river and every uh every tribe of the world seems to have try to associate themselves with you know the Lost tribes the Native Americans the Scottish I can assure you the Scottish are not one of the 12 not and not that I've seen any uh any evidence of but maybe I missed something along the way okay let's go over the page let's talk just on page three about the ashkanazi split so I'm not a historian um and there is many many phds have been written on this topic what is the origin of the ashkenazim and the spim if you go back 2,000 years there's no hint of an ashkanazi spari split but if you go back a thousand years then it's clearly evident so what happened in the meantime so I brought you a few Maps here the origin of the sarum is very clear the Jews established a major community in Babylonia we know this nebuchad Neta took them uh as Exiles and then they remained there during the second temple period even when they could have come to Israel but they remain remained there and they developed there and then after the uh destruction of the second temple the Babylonian Community eventually became the main Jewish Community erel became Byzantine uh and very oppressive under the Romans the Christian Romans and and Babylonia was really where it was all happening which is why the Town M bavi was created there Etc but it's important to understand that this community in Babylon was really kept away from Western Europe why because Western Europe was under the Roman uh Empire and then Empire and and the Babylonian Community were under the paeans and then the cenans and there was a enemy line in between you couldn't just you know migrate easily there were people who got through Enemy Lines the the gamorra talks about the people who traveled rimi and from Rin from one to the other and they brought the but they were you couldn't just migrate across those Enemy Lines so the so the Babylonian Community stayed on its own however once the Islamic um Empire was established very unexpectedly and very quickly in the seventh century in the eth century so all of a sudden the Muslims now had control over this entire area not just the Middle East of Babylonia but also Persia also um the uh North Africa and then into Spain so the the the Jews of Babylonia were now able to follow the trade routs as the Muslims opened this whole area and that became the Spidy Community there's really no question about that they went through through North Africa they came into Spain they got the name sparad it's actually interesting why they got the name sparad all the names of these modern European countries ashkenas sarad are all names of Middle Eastern countries from the tanak they nothing to do with Europe at K actually they give other names Canan was like the hungarians the Hungarian Empire they gave these middle e Eastern names to um other places in Europe but sparad and ashas the names originally if you look them up into nothing to do with Spain and Germany but they gave them so that was the sping fine and I brought you a map here both of the Islamic empire in the seventh and 8th Century you can see how big it was and also how Jew spread and immigrated through that the ashkenazim however are a major headache a major conundrum where on Earth did this group of really quite small group of 10 20 30,000 Jews in a really quite sort of out of the way place in the reinand and in northern France how on Earth did they get there where did they come from they just appeared all of a sudden and they're they're distinct so there are very uh there are a number of of suggestions some less uh ashkanazi friendly suggestions have been made uh one is that they just basically a bunch of bukharians that kind of wandered over the steps of Asia and found their way into Europe that's been pretty much uh discounted by academics as as not true the The Fragile consensus of academics and this is also mentioned by some themselves for example the roak who was in in Regensburg in the North in Germany in the 12th century he says my family came from Italy they came up there was the Colonus family in Italy was given permission Maybe by Charlamagne maybe that's just part of the myth but at that time was given permission to come up through Italy up into Europe and that's how the ashkenazim uh made their way to Northern Europe there's there's actually been some interesting genetic testing um for example there was a cemetery in ER in Germany that was discovered a few decades ago uh and it was a 14th century Jewish cemetery and they were they were able to do genetic testing on actually the teeth halachically it's not possible to just take the bones take them to a lab this was clearly Jewish a Jewish cemetry you can't just uproot them and do a testing on them but they found the teeth that been detached and the teeth you can hierachically take away um after death and and look at and they look at the DNA and I brought you a map here from a website that clearly the DNA was largely Italian and we and the theory is basically that the Romans brought we know this hundreds of thousands of Jewish slaves after the second Bish was destroyed meaning we didn't build the pyramids I'm sorry to ruin it if you think we did the pyramids were in Egypt long before the Jews ever got down there okay but we did did build a Coliseum for sure the Coliseum was built with Jewish slaves that were brought over from Rome we built the col they lived in Italy and much of the DNA is Italian South Italian North Italian there's also Middle Eastern this of course becomes a big political question as well you know did the ashkenazim really come from Israel or are they just pretending that they came from Israel it becomes a very political issue but there's clearly a lot of Middle Eastern DNA in the ashkenazim and an awful lot of Italian yes also both they found non-jewish and Jewish and there was a lot of marriage in and exactly where the how that will Happ ially worked there's always been uh there have always been non-jews marrying into the Jewish people uh I I quoted this before but there's a mishna in um Nim that talks about skin color of the Jewish people because obviously if you're looking for a white patch on the skin and trying to establish what kind of color white it is it makes a big difference if you're from Nigeria or if you're from Sweden it looks very very different and the gamar asks what's so what skin color are the Jews and it says every skin color there are Jews from Africa there are Jews from what calls Germania sort of uh you know freckled blond haired Jews and originally Abram is and yob I assume were just one particular way they came from Ur Casas they probably looked like you know Iraqis or whatever but eventually the Jews brought other people in um and uh they've also found by the way they found I mean tragically there were a lot of bodies thrown into a well in England they found them like 30 or 40 bodies just thrown into the well and they they think that they might be Jewish but they can't be sure as part of a program um it's not like a Jewish cemetery where they can clearly know they were Jewish and they found a lot of gingerhead people and blue-eyed people from the DNA but again we can't be completely sure that they're Jewish okay fine so the ashkenazim and theim definitely split um one of the things we'll see next week which is one of the big conundrums is that they only started talking about the different pronunciations and debating it in the Aon why do none of the Ron none of them talk about well we speak like this they speak like that and there was a lot of crossover we'll talk about that next week nobody mentions it until the maharal in the 16th century it could well be that actually there were no clear spari ashkanazi Accents in that time in the earlier times in the medieval period they came later as Yiddish developed Etc and they went East Poland and and and uh Ukraine we'll talk about that next week um but that's that's for them let's just look now at these two minhagim that I'd like to look at in some depth of the and the question so let's start with the so the r number 13 page [Music] four that if a husband and wife even if they're Hally married they've done a put the ring on the finger Harry mes no question the husband and wife the rabbi said they're not allowed to have a sexual relation with each other even though they're married because they have to do a proper they have to do there has to be a formality to the marriage before they can live together they need to have the ceremony because when she's in she's living with her father you can't have him creeping in and doing all whatever they're doing you know even though he says well you're my wife we can't have that we talked before pesak last year about the tribe of yudah or the area of Yuda where they did have relations before that's not for them even if he chose the three ways that you can do Kush the way we you do today is you do a gift you could do AAR you could Al do beer which is a sexual relationship even if that's how they create the Ausin it's a one and only it's a oneof he can't be with her again while she's living at her father's house until when he has to bring her forly into his home he has to do with her in his home and separate her from her parents family to be his wife in his family the says the rambam is her joining him in his home that is that is called bringing her into the whenever we talk about the same that's what we mean we mean her coming into his home as man and wife living together fine so for the rambam and we'll see the who follow that is when they move in together as a husband and wife fine the Remar says in number 14 yeah but we don't exactly do it like that today and the raar brings down another a number of other to what they so look at number 14 says it could be we we hold is not really the even if he doesn't actually have with her if he brings her if they bring her to his home they've symbolically taken her away from the father's home brought to the husband's home that could also be good enough and it could be the means the cover is when they put the of the over the head of the and they stand together under theal when we do the the that we have today what do we do today in Poland in the 16th century what do we call we put a cloth over on poles we put a cloth on four poles and we bring the Under The Canopy because so we do it all together so if you ask a Jew now and as a Jew probably also a do today what is the word what does it mean means the means the canop but that's all there all different ways of doing it by the way he do mention here which elsewh he mentions B could also be part of the where goes to the and covers over the Kal's face that's also possibly a form of and what do they do after they've done all these things they take them into a room B often means a room here and what do they do what's the main point this little room the eats the whole point of the what we you and I call the room is for eating they have a little snack they might have been fasting the whole day they they have a little bit of time together this is what we do today okay fine and you know that from the weddings that you have been to okay so do they do things differently so R and we'll see in a minute from his son the spum have come under pressure over the last 40 50 years to move away from the rambam sa which is you don't need a room you have is when you go home together at the end of the wedding that's to move to what the ashaz do is to have this little room where they you know go afterward which we call the ra wants nothing of this said it's wrong number 15 if when they've done the after is that called is that the end is that what everything and now she has to cover her hair because once she's in this she has to cover her hair so fully and therefore it does make a difference what we call nin and what we don't call nissuin he he then has about 15 pages which I've just skipped okay where he brings all the different sources and the wonderful thing about R is he has a at the end he has a little summary mste doesn't do that you just got to read all 15 pages you really got to read all 15 pages for ra as well but here I she doesn't have to cover her hair straight after the she's not a she's [Music] an until after they've done a real which is a big relief because otherwise right at the end of the Chas she'd had to just throw on a shapel or throw on for not a shle throw on a scarf okay and she'd have to it would be very awkward no she's still now there are who do something different they do straight after according to them he said it's quite obvious if you're going to do a little room we'll call it the room now she has to put her head covering all straight off she can't come out to the wedding with a veil and with a headband and with a the bridal outfit she has to cover her properly because she's if you're gonna say that's that's okay we don't do this we do it after in the home when they go back home and this is based on holy mountains don't you mess with and it it saves the Kal all of the stress of covering her hair because she only needs to cover her hair once they go home and do a proper this husband and wife and okay very very clear so his son has an article in which I quoted from at some length and he explains in more depth why the do not like the group number 16 so he gives Four Points three or four points here let's look at this together this is the end of his article you can easily pull this offline young these days in a minute he's going to tell you what's bothering him which is the going to okay they shouldn't change from the they shouldn't doys should be following it's not a it's not a based on just the people not just that you don't need to do a you shouldn't do a only after later at night and he raises an interesting question which we'll see why he says this and it's just like so inappropriate okay it's it's graceful that all these people are dancing them into a room that's just so lacking in that's that when they go home later there just the two of them they go home together but for everyone to dance and sing as they go together into said whoever heard of such a thing it's just not appropriate the like his father said and and if they AR going to do a room she better cover her hair straight away and I'll tell you something even the there are some that also want to get rid of the I haven't found many but there are some you know something I'm not going to tell them they have to they have a they also have rabbis we shouldn't cancel but they shouldn't cancel our if we forcefully enforce on the boys the and they shouldn't and they and they should fulfill by doing that they should go because it shows the world that almost all if not all they're based on because you know something also had big rabbis it wasn't just the and people who were able to get to the depths of we insist on it he's really I think getting a little defensive here we insist that they mustn't do a room and they shouldn't even go to a side no photographs just in the room the middle of that's also a problem because she's maybe [Music] it's and even because after they go into this room she has to cover her hair are you gonna say well that's not really a room the photographers there okay say even if it's not a like full blood because the photographers there that's still dangerous she might still have to cover air it's y enough which is I don't quite understand how that could really be we so mpid that there's no one else there there's no exits there's no way they can no one can see them he said no no y rooms absolutely not completely baned and he uh he addresses another issue which is the following but what about the you stand under the and the whoever so these are which are on the so for the it kind of works better because you do the and then immediately they leave quickly and they go to the room and that's the end of thein but according to the you do and then the real is seven hours later when they go home what are these what's happened to these BR they're kind of just floating in the air for for for hours and hours and hours until you do the real because according to ra this woman when she comes from under the to the wedding Feast she's she's not you've just made in a situation where the woman doesn't become a how can you do that so he says no I have a good answer and this is very interesting here look number 17 understand that the BR you make they're not okay but notes the his father himself says the ramb should make the bras on the cup for the B Etc that's the by the way today is not to do that we don't even the doesn't make the even though they are theas of the Mitzvah of that he's doing because we don't want to embarrass the who are not able to make those BR so the is that the makes those bras for the and the Kal which is a bit strange because you know when when when you get a situation where somebody does a Mitzvah assuming that the wedding is a Mitzvah itself that's a debate between the rambam and the and the rash the rambam holds it is a Mitzvah when you get a situation where somebody does a Mitzvah and then you ask a third person who's completely unconnected to the Mitzvah to come and make a your Mitzvah and in fact when my son got married was his and said really likes the yite Min and and the he said my son should make the make the B himself under the which is what he did and all the standing there were like gping like ah Etc and were there were debates afterwards into the meal you know was there and everyone's getting and and if you know RAB he doesn't feel Bound by the traditions of the Jewish people up until now he understands that there are we come back toel and we go back to the m authentic Min anyway so my son my son said these BRS and it's all done now so it's too late and they and they're and they they're definitely married however he said that's okay middle of the second line but that's not the same for for sure can't say those these should go to a dignitary they're not the BR on the Mitzvah they're bras of Praise yeah you know you're praising God by the institution of marriage they should go to a you know dignitaries that are there and my father says he got upset he got angry shouldn't do that and the reason he got angry is because I said they should go to a now says the says agrees that these are also says that they're not on the they're praising the people fine good and therefore they don't need to be right next to the Mitzvah they're not bras on the Mitzvah they can be detached how detached so then in number 18 he says they don't have to be right there they have to be connected there has to be a um a clear connection between the BR and the a praise and what happens okay what about thunder and lightning one of the interesting questions I don't know why this comes up so much in the lit discussed what happens if you're in the bathroom and there's clap of Thunder okay and then the first thing that's on your mind is O I need to make a br and by the time you get out of the bathroom it's like a minute later you lost the you can't do it if you don't make a within three or four seconds no one knows what you're making a bro on you hear a clap of Thunder you're in the bathroom or wherever you are you come out four five minutes later and you look you stand in the room you should make a what what they never what's that no this connect but that's not the same as a wedding even if the is hours later even at the end of the meal they call when they make those bras everyone knows what it's for everyone knows it's the wedding no one thinks that these bras are disconnected it's that's connected enough and he brings another RI what about a where the wasn't able to get to the Mikvah before the which we try very hard to avoid and the ramb by the way says doesn't even work but we don't the r we do may only get to the mik two three four days later they may only be able to do any kind of days later so what goes on there he says obviously the happened at the and the happens days later nobody has a problem with that because everyone knows that what these broas cannect to therefore it's very clear that we can do what the spim do and nny explains why he's so upset now look at this this is where the title of this series which has been since we started hash and you'll see right now look at number 19 let's do this quite quickly because I want to get to the next Point well in recent years boys have been going to they've been changing they've been pressuring even the to do Straight Out The some of these Russ make it a condition they won't do the wedding unless they do he says what on Earth is going on why are this why is this pressure happening look at number 20 I am so astounded says there are people who write BRS what's your problem let's do a meaning come on what's the harm it's a we think we should do the and the regular and the why not why don't keep okay the the sh on or something you know it's a what's that TR truth is that R you might allow a Shadle just for the wedding because because of other things as well because they haven't consumated marriage but whatever not for now and after I ask you says I am astounded by what you suggested how can they be so arrogant to just wipe out with a stroke of a hand how can you just ignore like [Music] this their little fingers were thicker than our tummies says me these people were and you are going to override them I've explain to you why this comes from and it's it's really inappropriate and he goes through some of the the things we said what do you mean it's on the contr and they last paragraph here we never heard of this this whole thing is going haywire because of pressure from rabis they turned this which is purely into a issue as as if to say [Music] are you a are you a younger [Music] man they don't know from you know this is the form way to behave he's very unhappy with this very unhappy with this this got nothing to do with we shouldn't be bagged in pulled in for those people who hold there are people who put down the they come from the the people no people go in he doesn't like that to say the least okay now very bravely in the next edition of wrote an article against now was my son's when he did in he's also he's also a renowned POC he's also the son-in-law of R David Levi who was the chief Rabbi of T so he's from his himself through his wife Etc I put on the next page and we're not going to read all this through 21 and 22 I'll just mention what he says he says you know something I I don't think that this is the only way to understand it first of all I think you can view it as a what's the harm let her cover her hair and even on the hair covering he says there are different ways of uh of understanding hair covering it's not as bad as you think while she's still a Kala until she really comes home with her husband there are ways to understand hair covering that'll work even without covering her hair and then he comes up with a new point which is and what happens if they call up ashaz to make a br as one of the Chas could be lots of mixed marriages these days mixed ethnicity marriages I a lot of you here have sons daughters grandchildren ashaz and Ethiopians like lots and lots of people and he says it's all very well for you as a to say you can make a br right now and the is is later on but theim don't hold my way and actually says I won't make a under a he says if they don't have a room right now you can't have a room in seven hours from now I'm not going to make a br so he says it's going to be really difficult for these mixed ethnicity marriages that they can't call up to give the Shas which he says is a big problem and he says and in case you're worrying one of the arguments that rabf made is how can you change the Min now it's what's called it makes out that in the past all these G were doing it all wrong now you're CL says no it's not they never had mixed ethnicity marriages in the pass they never encountered this problem now you have to cater for ashaz and SP him together it's it's it's necessary to make these changes it's not doesn't say anything about what happened in Morocco a 100 years ago it's very interesting he makes this whole argument he also is very interesting he rejects rf's concern about the Y being a lack of he says look the way you're thinking about the Y room in theory the Y room has to be a place where the husband and wife could be intimate with each other that's why they're not to have SIM there sa for Torah etc etc is a very like in theory if they wanted to be inate they could be he says you're really thinking of the says like the old Moroccans and the oldin did that they need to know if the if the kalor is a or not and everybody's kind of waiting to hear ah she's a she's not aah Etc and therefore if that's what everybody's interested in then then dancing Everybody to the room and waiting outside to hear the news is completely inappropriate he says but no one has the slightest interest now in that question all people are trying to work out when the and in the room is they're trying to work out where they're sitting on which table they're trying to work out where they DAV Mar and where they're daving mared they're trying to work out why the photographers are taking so long nobody's interested in whether the Cala is the kala isn't it's a he says and the whole wedding's now much more mixed the and the kala sit together they sit on the Dance Floor together he said it's a completely different world the sne issues that you're worried about and sne issues from a different life they're from a different age and therefore he says uh it's not an issue um and there basically you have the argument and uh you can think about that and ask your own poim as as as that how that works okay so that's the first issue with the room I think at my da my niece's wedding they will not have room because he's very very much for Radia people and therefore there's nothing to talk about second min which I want to talk about just for um about 12 minutes is as follows what's the deal with Chev now many people in this room may not even realize this is a question meaning we've all been to hundreds and you have in this house and then in this house and then in this house but it's not so straightforward look please over on the page on page seven because the gar says in number 23 where do you make the during the week you make them in the house where the live similarly number 24 in doesn't have to sit in the all seven days because he's he's involved in one Potter from sitting in the what's the problem because they need to celebrate so let them eat in the SU Su and let them celebrate in the Suka meaning let them do in the Su what's your problem so it says the uh says no now what does mean here you seen toast in a minute doesn't mean the canopy means the the's home where the and kala are living you can't just drag everyone off to a Suka and pretend that that's now the center of the festivities it's a side room says the okay so let them eat in the Su and go back and celebrate in the's home you have to have the where you're eating let live in the for seven days do everything in the Su move the whole to the says that's not gonna work no you can't do that the will be left in with a guest or the like the suers were out of the way they were down in the field you can't have it there ra says s the and the not going to be private together it's going to be it's not going to work so toas in number 25 picks this up and he says and this is a very important to because to wasi they were Ashi he says they saides even with the they go to eat in another house you cannot say the special formula at beginning of thetion can't make because the is not at someone else's house it's at what do I mean by what do we mean by means the place where they originally got married in the you know the original wedding ceremony sometimes they get married in the center of town they have AER in the middle of the square and they they do because there's a lot of people they can't fit in the so that's not is not where they had the ceremony is where they live me not some random temporary place only in the home can you make Chev bras with bras all through the week of Chev bras wow that means you can't go to somebody's house and make you can't that's not where the are living to seems very clear number 26 oh interesting does that mean he really holds by this or only leaves the even if he takes the with him they go celebrate eat in a different house you can't make sh there that's only if they're coming back home later to their home if they all if the whole you know party you know move from New York at the beginning of the wedding they all go to Los Angeles for the rest of the week okay that's fine if they go to a different place permanently with all of the family and all of the celebrants ETC basic that becomes the the main place now that's called the new you sometimes they move to a different city if they're not coming back to their regular home yeah you can change locations but if they're living at home and you go out to friends you can't make shev rockers and most interestingly the RAR does not object the RAR doesn't say anything you would expect the raar to jump in say well that's fine for this but is to make whoever he doesn't say that why not because holds the same thing you can't make Shad at somebody's house you can't do it it has to be the's house the in fact in Number 27 there there's another deal there's another situation which is you know do you use one cup for ch or two cups and the the says one cup will do and the the ra says no we always use two cups even if we're only making and only those two not the other Shas so what's the case that the R's talking about where you're only making those two bras now it could be where you don't have there's nobody new there if there's nobody new there then you yeah you just make the first off and then the last but it could be the case that we're talking about you're having Chas at the neighbors down the street and that's when you're only making two bras so it's not even clear that the RAR holds any differently to the makaba which is a big surprise that ashim don't take account of this tour and we're all used to shlepping around everybody's houses for chevas the reason for that is number 28 which is the Taz I'm not going to read this in detail because time is running out but there's a long long Taz the Taz is living only 60 70 years after the the Remar and he says I don't understand where we live in Poland everybody goes to other people's houses for CH it's very interesting he says I don't know about fine TOA says no but this is what we do this is our minnow and he relearns all of the garas he says the problem with the Suka is it's just a Suka a Suka is like a a little place that people go to just to be y in the mid of Suka but if you're going to somebody's house and the H's there and the kala's there and and people are celebrating that of course you can say sh the on this which is very interesting which is a weak it's a weak because the gamar seems quite clear and the toas seems quite clear and and yet we're all relying on this and these are bras this is BR after after after after normally speaking we're not just fast and loose when it comes to making BR so I brought you at the bottom here that on this issue the ashaz rely on the Taz and indeed some even rely on the Taz as well theim who were to some SP him allow the only the house of the and also their parents that's good enough some don't allow that some say if you go to hotel for shab that's okay but some don't even allow that ra they made Chev when he was the chief Rabbi the they made Chev every single night in big mares there were hundreds of people there they didn't once say they just said and look simp they didn't make the um and ra has his own he says you could only allow what about asking an ashkanazi to say those bras well one second you can just become aardi or ashkanazi how does that work so is says he allow asazi to Shas in this situation only in quotes and quotes dire situations like what's going to be a dire situation um yeah yeah Shalom B meaning the kala ashkanazi The kala's Grandfather's there or the kala's rabbis there you're going to say I'm sorry you know we're not going to allow you to do it so you get these situations which are which are a little bit pressed but I brought you lots and lots of uh I actually brought you there's one of the rabim rim Inu I'm going to pronounce his name wrong ra Jai I'm not I don't know him personally I apologize if I pronounce that wrong he has a 231 P page contr just on this issue go download it and read it by next week and see what you think okay we'll end there next week we're going to move on toar asazi pronunciation but this is the beginning of our series