Transcript
Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
Welcome back to the what it takes
podcast for now. We'll change the name.
We don't we won't change the name. We'll
know. We'll see. Um
but today on today's episode, we have
Moi Hei
>> was previously the chief innovative.
>> Innovation officer. Yeah.
>> Chief innovation officer at charity, a
platform that all of you are very
familiar with that has raised, I would
say, billions.
>> We're nearing five billion.
>> Yeah. Billions of dollars for non
forprofits, for organizations around the
US, overseas. Yeah, globally.
>> Globally. Um, very impressive
background. And now you have your own
startup called Hatch.ai,
>> a
information
software that helps nonforprofits get
information on their donors to help them
fund raise better.
>> Yes.
>> Is that it?
>> Yes.
>> Very good.
>> Good job.
>> Okay. Welcome to the studio.
Great to be here, Tally. Thank you for
It's great to have you here in my in my
studio.
>> We didn't even make yet.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Uh Thomas,
>> it is Gimmel Thomas today.
>> And um my intention here is to
completely hijack your podcast and turn
this into a Fbrangan.
>> I'm so excited.
>> Okay. On my way here, I was thinking,
oh, when I when I when I agreed to do
this, I was like didn't realize that it
was going to be Giml Thomas. On my way
here, I'm like, what am I doing a
podcast? I said, you know what? do the
podcast but turn it into a Fbrangan. So
this is officially completely hijacked.
This is going to be a fangan. So I think
the first thing that you need a fabangan
is so y have some over here.
>> You're going to have to join us.
>> Yeah, you're going to have to.
>> You're going to have to join us. You
only have two shot glasses. One.
>> We'll get you now. It's a real fabian.
We have one. We drink from the same
glass.
>> Drink from the bottle.
>> Drink from the same glass.
>> Of course I want a branded mug from you.
We We're not going to drink all three
bottle. We're just going to drink one.
This little
>> I hate this. It burns. It's nasty. I
don't like bitter. It tastes like
>> Yeah, we're going to say it.
>> So, let me let me set the stage here for
me hijacking your uh podcast over here.
Okay.
>> So, what is a fingan? I think the
fangans are becoming very popular these
days. It's like I've seen like I think
>> nobody wants to zone out. It's too much
like they're under too much stress or
>> I think that might be one of the
reasons. No, I think people are getting
real. I think people are I think the
Jewish people are getting real. I'm
going to have a tiny little bit. That's
all I just half of your
>> Just ya.
>> You don't drink. You drink?
>> I don't drink.
>> I mean, I drink, but I don't drink
drink, you know. I say no, not really.
>> A little bit. You know, I don't really
enjoy it so much.
>> Anyways, what is it? I I've seen at
least I don't know, five uh uh in the
last few weeks, I've seen at least five
uh bumper stickers. Fabangian,
fabangable. There's like there's a big
It's a big It's a big uh on so little.
>> I don't know. I'm not a rabbi.
>> Yeah. Don't you drink something from
there? I'll make on that.
>> Yeah, that's a good idea.
Brisk.
>> Okay.
>> It's not because I come from there. But
>> are you a brisk?
>> I'm not. But now I am.
>> All right. Before we say, I'm going to
set stage. So it's becoming a very Yeah.
>> Bleep it out so nobody says by mistake.
Delicious.
>> Pour me some. Pour me some in there.
Okay.
>> What is Stop. Stop. What is
Oh man. What is it when a tea has
alcohol?
>> Long Island iced tea.
>> Yeah. Yeah. There we go. You know what?
Hello. Let's do this. I I don't know
what a long iced tea tastes like, but
I'm about to find out.
>> About to find out.
>> This is going to be fun. Hello. We're
just going to sing and and and drink.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. bed.
>> So, listen. If I bring
>> I was just reading
>> look on camera.
>> I'm telling you it's ADHD to the max.
Cranked up.
>> Yeah, now I know what I'm dealing with.
Okay, now I know what I'm dealing with.
Okay,
>> it looks like a drunk show.
>> Okay,
>> if I bring in like this, I'm actually
reading Rab Rabinstein just they just
they just came out.
>> It's fine. It's normal here.
>> It's all good.
>> What it takes what it takes. Okay. Adin
Schnez,
>> who's that?
>> Adinis, a big uh big sadic author. Lived
in Israel.
>> Lived
>> he lived and not alive anymore. He wrote
he translated the the shas in Hebrew. Um
he wrote many beautiful he was one of
the revered of the labb. So they just
they just published a book uh from him
um called Fbrangan. And they took a few
of his um a few of his fibbrangans,
right? Utasis
Gimotus.
>> What does that mean? Translate. Oh,
someone someone must have been they must
have been recorded or someone must have
been there that that waser that
basically thing and they wrote out they
wrote out a bunch of
>> he was saying during the
>> so it's interesting he say the first
point that he makes he describes what a
fibbrangan is and he says a fbrangan is
like this fbrangan is not a a not you
don't say a fbrangan and you also don't
say now there are exceptions okay
>> why didn't you say why don't you say
>> okay so this is his point so first of
first of all there are exceptions to
that obviously First of all, when is
they say they say they say they say lots
of
>> is a um a talk um
usually a talk on
>> No, it's
it's usually based.
>> No, but if you break it down to like
explain it to a third grader,
>> I don't learn Tanya, not by I'm learning
and I have a bunch of other and I'm
busy.
are the the situs of the terra the
secrets of the terra
>> it's how to become a better Jew
>> ultimately yeah
>> ultimately it's not missed it's not
>> what this was was brought was was
introduced to the world
>> if you need to put it into a category
>> yeah what category
>> it's own it's its own category was
introduced to the world by the bashv
>> right
>> okay the balshive was a very holy Jew in
his first part part of his life he was a
hidden sadic uh many he was uh
downloading just call it for that
downloading the teachings of the Arizal
downloading the teachings of all the
cabalistic masters of year of of the
generations before.
>> Um and um he developed a an evolution
and a
um a developed and and and
u uh what's the word you know made
relevant the secrets of the Torah for
the for our generation. Okay. And he uh
re he revealed these this teachings to
his students to the maggot. And then the
magid which was his main student. And
then the mag taught was the teacher of
all the great rebas. the alterbatalia,
the the the uh
and
and all these all these great teach all
these uh all these greatidic masters who
are the the head of the dynasties of all
the
groups and
that was that's it's you know in
right so is the fourth is the fourth
which is the secrets of the terra
>> and it's the medicine elaborate on that.
So are something that the Reb would
would speak would teach which would be
usually be based on the para which
usually be based on like onidic aidic
aidically drivenly
enhanced um version uh talk on the para
based on on usually based on the para or
based on or based on that's what that's
what is the mimer is a little bit deeper
are exceptions to the to the rules of
what happens in fabang obviously if a
reba comes to a fbrang then he
they would say either or talk and talk
to our terrorists. There are other
exceptions like after the Reb would say
give a have a talk would gather to uh to
discuss and review and try to understand
what the Reb was saying in in the but
generally speaking a faban is meant for
brothers to join together is a
brotherhood right to join together and
Rabstein says it really beautifully he
says the point is not to say now you can
say some that's not the thing but the
the real essence of affirming is not to
say and not to say not to not to talk
idol talk. Okay. So what do you do? Some
people that's all they know how to do.
All they know how to do is talk to or
they know how to talk. Okay. So what's
the third option?
>> Sing.
>> Oh very good. That's also that's part of
the brain. But in terms of talking about
what do we what's the dialogue is being
real.
So if you're not if you're forced not to
speak where it's not in other words you
can speak diver but it's not a shar.
It's not you coming to a to hear. You
got to do that separate every day. And
it's not you're not talking sports.
You're not talking about the Knicks. So
you're not talking about thing. So what
do you you got to be real and when
you're if you sit amongst brothers right
amongst and amongst other Jews and
yidden and you talk real what it does is
it congeals everything else that you're
going on in your life. It congeals your
it congeals the learning that you're
doing outside during the right and cong
with and but it has to be with brothers
because that's how that's how we grow.
We grow with brotherhood. We grow with
con with with with our hashem being um
leveraged and being enhanced and being
elevated through brotherhood. That's
what a fang is. So that's what we're
going to do today. We're going to we're
h we're going to take this podcast. You
can ask me whatever questions you want,
but you're I'm telling you right now I'm
warning you that I'm going to answer as
if we're sitting at a far because it's
gimmel Thomas and that's what we need to
do.
>> And that means you're going to be
>> this going to be your first giml Thomas
ever
>> that I can recall. Okay. So he has a
book that I once read.
>> Okay. So in your adult okay if I bring
it begins. Okay. What do you want to
know? What do you want to know? Tell
>> everything you ask me is going to be
>> through this lens.
>> Through this lens. Okay.
>> How did you make last year?
Yeah. Snitch the
>> um was charity your first job?
>> No.
>> That's what it says on LinkedIn. I mean
no there's one thing.
>> Don't believe anything you see online
totally. Okay. Okay.
>> That's first first lesson today.
>> Everything associate currency.
>> Everything is a fake news. Fake news?
>> No. The first thing that a job that I
had was I WAS A SINGER.
>> WHAT?
>> YEAH.
>> I'm so jealous.
>> You didn't do a Google search. I see.
Okay.
>> Um Yeah. I was I composed an album um in
my very very early 20s um of English
folk music inspired by and inspired by
spiritual ideas.
>> You sing professionally.
>> I just sang for you over here just now
for free. So I don't sing professionally
anymore. Uh but that was my first uh
gig. That was my first That was my first
thing.
>> I'd love to sing at wedding. It's my
dream.
>> So do it. Can you sing?
>> Go to co voice lessons, voice coaching
for like what a year or two.
>> I don't know. Did you go time consuming?
>> Okay. Well,
>> I'd love to. I want to be a good Ba.
>> Okay. So, what's stopping you?
>> Time and money.
>> Okay.
>> Fine first.
>> Okay.
>> If I told you my full schedule, your
eyes will pop out of your face.
>> Okay. I believe you.
So, that's what I did first. Um, I did
that for a while
>> for an income.
>> Um, well, no, obviously that's why I
stopped. I mean, I was trying.
>> No, but you were dancing at weddings.
>> No, that was where that's when I
realized at the point where I realized
like the only way I'm going to make this
sustainable because I was doing concerts
here and there, but then the only when I
realized that the only way to make this
sustainable is to sing at weddings and I
just didn't want to. That wasn't my
thing. So, I uh quit.
>> Not relevant to the podcast. Do you know
Tal? Yes.
>> Yeah, sure.
>> He used to be my neighbor. We're good
friends.
>> Tali's amazing.
>> Yeah, he he sings. I mean,
>> yeah. No, he's beautiful. He he um
>> Moshi has
>> I did Yeah, I did a cover for the Moshi
album. The first song and this is like a
two thing album.
>> I don't know all his songs. I just know
um
>> No, for his father made of
>> Yeah. Moshi was great great master uh
you know songwriter, singer songwriter.
Um
>> let's go back this.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So you started with
>> So I started with music um then um in my
20s you know we didn't I went to labage
system which was beautiful and great for
many things but
>> in what way system like
>> I went through the kabad system
>> which is
>> the classic kabad system is
>> so I'm saying yeshiva system um
>> go to wrap
>> that's part of it I'm asking out of
curiosity
>> that's a big part of it no yeah yeah no
for sure there was um you know you learn
in in in classic yeshiva till till 20
>> um And then 20 you do a year called
which is um going out to
learn and to do community work to do to
do
>> what's it called
>> to spread to spread
to spread the wellsp springsings of of
of and of Judaism. Um so every and every
is different. So some schlas will be
bakers we call it at 20 years
>> decides where you go
>> the yeshiva decides for you for the most
part
>> and they send you around the world
>> and they send you around the world. So I
was sent to Ukraine
>> anyway. So I spent a year there and then
uh what's that like?
>> That was that was wonderful. Basically
they they moved six bakim or six of us
into a semi- orphanage like for it was
like a dormatory and there were like 15
20 boys that some of them had families
some of them didn't but it was like a
dormatory boarding school for Ukrainian
children
>> half of the day we would learn
and we would learn and then the other
half of the day we would do programs we
would learn with these stu with these
with these students we would do we would
we would do a whole bunch of things to
help to help the community classically
is going to put on fill in with Jews.
>> Yeah. To go spread Yiddish kite with uh
>> Yeah. So that was that and then I did in
Melbourne, Australia.
>> On what?
>> Uh
>> just
it's the same I think everywhere. It's
ter
>> um and for the most part
>> we don't have No, it's not part of it.
Um
>> the basics.
>> Uh yeah. And then uh so that was the
that was the system. So there was no you
know we didn't get an didn't get an educ
we didn't get a degree didn't didn't
didn't learn a trade
>> let me tell you lababich these people
have confidence and get stuff done.
>> Yeah.
>> Incredible. Like a massive percentage
like even the introverts.
>> Yeah. You don't find that outside of
Labavich is like that.
>> You do. Just not as common.
>> Do you know any employers have called
me? I need like a labra type of person.
Yeah, there is confidence. Find any
other book that will walk up to
strangers.
>> Yeah.
>> From a young age, they have you put on
film today.
>> They're Yes.
>> It's confidence building. Yeah. Sales.
Amazing.
>> Yeah. Yeah. They Myths helps with that
to help you be fearless, right? You
imagine going up and it's like it's like
it's like the old doortodoor selling uh
cleaning supplies.
>> Those guys end up becoming the greatest
salespeople. You know, some of the
greatest CEOs of C of of of you know,
sales companies, whatever. They say,
"What? We started off selling uh
whatever cold knocking.
>> Yeah. Cold, you know, door to door
selling whatever. Um yeah, I think I
think there's that. There's the mitsai
part which taught a lot of leadership
skills and I think also just the spirit
of labage and of the Reb teaching us how
to be leaders and teaching us how to
turn over the whole whole whole world.
Um so it's definitely a spirit and it uh
whether if they go on or if they go into
business. Anyway, so I you know I went
through the system it was beautiful but
you know the system doesn't necessar it
prepares you for essential things like
we just talked about but I had to go
find a career you know I had to you know
de create my own career. So I started
off by selling advertising space
>> um for the the original early algamor.
So this is while I was doing music I was
like okay I got also got to you know get
some actual income
>> right?
>> So I started selling the algamator
journal that just went English.
>> What was that? The Algamander Janal was
a Yiddish newspaper that was started by
Rabbi Gerson Jacobson many many many
years ago. Okay.
>> Many decades ago. He's the father of Y
Jacobson, Simon Jacobson, Bark Jacobson
and the three brothers.
>> Um
>> did sales
>> and so I so a colleague a a classmate of
mine David Effune who was he's like I
want to build this thing into an English
online juggernaut. Um I need someone to
sell ads from. So I sure I'm a good
salesperson. So that was the first gig.
I did that for a year or two. Then um
you
>> found success doing that.
>> Um it was it was okay. Paid some bills.
>> Okay.
>> You know those you know
>> not like oh wow I'm really like making
good money.
>> It was no it was just a good thing
right. You have in the in the 20s you
have to try a lot of things. You got to
take a risk. You got to be very active.
You got to move. You got to have
momentum. And then I think eventually
that's that's kind of our hard knocks
school of hard knocks. Like we learn
that's our education also. We learn on
the job right. We learn it, we drum. So
it's it's okay. I would say to anybody
in their 20s that's going from one thing
to another, not 100% sure, no problem.
Just keep moving. Keep forward momentum.
Right. Right. Forward momentum. Just
keep keep keep trying things until you
find what you're really good at.
>> So eventually
>> that should be a short by the way.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> By itself.
>> Cut, cut, cut, cut.
>> Yeah. Exactly.
>> So So eventually I realized that I was
good at
communication.
I was good at taking an idea and
communicating it to the masses. Okay,
whether it was through advertising,
copy, design, uh building a marketing
campaign, okay, that's what I was going
when I was selling advertising to these
companies, they were they had terrible
ads. I would say to them, I can do a
much better job on this ad. So, I
started doing the advertising for them.
I started writing the copy. I started
doing the design. And then that led into
my realization that what am I? I'm I'm
essentially a marketer. Okay. Then few
uh startup stints, you know, I did
marketing for a digital currency which
was 20 years ago before Bitcoin was I
think was at $15 when that happened. And
then eventually I met Yuda Gerwitz who
was the founder of charity who had just
started uh it was in private beta. There
wasn't when you couldn't even see the
campaigns on the on the homepage and the
idea of charity blew my mind
um to be able to raise like significant
amount of money
>> crowdsourcing.
>> Yeah. And I realized that I had found my
calling
um to be able to help people who are
helping people. Help the people who are
helping people. And that became my
calling. That became
>> Is that one of their taglines? Help the
people who help.
>> No, but I'll probably get uh sued for
that trademark. It's probably
trademarked like yours.
>> People are helping people.
>> Um but that became that became like
realize that's sort of because I feel I
I have
>> if it's not trademark, use it for hatch.
>> Okay. We'll see. Run it by the marketing
department.
Um, so that became my calling to help
people, help people. So I was at charity
for seven, eight years.
>> What was that like?
>> Charity?
>> Yeah.
>> The best years from a working from a
working standpoint, that was the best
years ever.
>> Um, what was your
>> at the By the way, it's important to
know for the first two and a half, three
years, I didn't make anything.
>> Making zero or pennies?
>> Pretty much zero.
>> How were you able to live?
>> It's a great question.
>> Your wife was
>> I was still doing some of my music
stuff. I was still doing my wife had a a
little bit but I don't know I have no
idea how I lived those years. I was
taking a little bit but basically I had
yeah I did it because of the upside
because I was believed in the
>> what was the structure
>> the I had equity in the and yeah I got a
significant piece of equity in the
business so my motivation was the upside
eventual upside.
>> You got bought out when you left.
>> Yes.
>> What was your role when you left chief
innovation officer? I'm not going to
believe that because you said not to
believe anything easy online.
>> Um, no, but I mean talk to me start up
through you were there seven years.
>> Yeah.
>> What was that like? What was your
dayto-day?
>> How did it grow?
>> What was your hardest thing that you
dealt with there? Challenges, successes.
>> I think we dealt with every single
challenge that a startup has to deal
with, right? I think there's a list
somewhere like uh no money, privacy,
security challenges,
um partner drama, all everything. I
think we dealt with every single
challenge that a startup has to deal
with. Um and I just never quit. I never
quit. I I felt that like um the impact
the vision of the impact that we were
going to make on the Soducka world um
was too powerful to to let any of these
little challenges uh stop us. Um and we
had a great team.
>> What is their model? How do they make
money? Credit card swipes, transaction
fees.
>> No, they take a they take a percentage
of of what they help raise. So
>> smart. Yeah.
>> But they invest initial overhead.
>> Yeah. I mean today today there's
multiple different ways that they
charge. They're flexible in different
ways to to to charge. So they can charge
a fat flat rate. It's become, you know,
there's competition today. So there's
they can charge a flat rate. They can
charge a percentage of of of of what's
raised. But basically, if we help you
raise money, then we then we then we
make then we make some money on our own.
>> Who was your first competitor?
>> The first competitor was a company
called Matchathon. It was a in Canada.
They're not around anymore. I think it
was called Matchathon or something.
>> What was your reaction when you heard
about it the first time? Um, it
motivated us. It very much motivated us.
>> Take you guys out.
>> Not not to an unhealthy degree. I think
we were like, um, we we we were we knew
we were always the the kind of the the
first and the innovators and um but we
never let that we never let that get to
our head and we never let that um make
us comfortable where where we were.
Competitors are a vital component to
business to business success. A if you
don't have competitors, then there's
probably something essentially wrong
with your business model. Um because
anything that's good and and worthwhile
doing, multiple people are going to do
it. Um
>> that's another short.
>> Yeah. I mean, you have to have
competition otherwise there's there it's
a sign that there's no real there's no
real market for for what you're doing.
Um, but you got to know what your
differentiators are. What what's your
unique value proposition to the to the
community, what you you you can uniquely
provide and what you uniquely do that
other companies can't do and you double
down on that. Then you just focus stay
focused on that.
>> A competitor pops up that can do what
you are doing uniquely
>> and you do it better.
>> Do it better.
>> Yeah.
>> Did you ever have competitors that like
like uh oh, we're in trouble?
>> Um, not one single company. Um but the
combination of it uh the combination of
like when you have five or six
competitors that are each one has
>> they're after your lunch right you know
they're after you because you're when
you're the leader in the space they come
at you like sharks you know everything
to them is like oh we're better than
charity because we do this or we can do
this and charity can't do this and so
it's the whole conversation but as long
as you stay the central part of the
conversation as long as you're the
central part of the conversation and you
know who your um your ICP or ideal
customer profile that's really really
critical
Once um businesses start to um once
businesses start to get like a lot of
competitors start to go to a market um
if you you have to basically fine-tune
what your ICP is, your ideal customer
profile, right? And if you don't do
that, you're going to be in big trouble.
>> Ideal. Yeah. Ideal.
>> How do you put together how to figure
out who is your ICP?
>> Yeah. So it's it's it's a process but
ultimately you want to identify the very
specifics of what the company what is
the makeup of that of that company. So
how much like are they SMBs right? So
some some simple things is like are they
SMBs small to mid-size businesses or are
they enterprise right so that's usually
one differentiation then
>> what's SMB
>> SMB is what right well it depends for
what industry so you you know in your
industry is this an a small to midsize
business so some industries like they do
less than $10 million a year enterprise
does more than $10 million a year it can
be a combination of that plus they have
x amount of customers plus they have
then this one has up to this amount of
customers and they've been around for
this amount of years and the other and
enterprises they x amount of customers
and they've been around for x amount of
years plus they bring x amount of
revenue. So in every industry is going
to have a different
>> decide on your own what's enterprise.
>> You study the market of what's you know
SMB versus the enterprise in this thing.
So that's one common differentiation of
thing and then then there's geographics
like are you focusing on this area or
that area right? Um, so you have to
identify like and say like our ideal
customer profile is been around for x
amount of years, does x amount of
revenue, has x amount of customers that
live that is in this specific
geographical area that services this
niche of the of of of of the market,
right? That um there could be some there
could be other variables and then you
say that like this is the customer base
that we are going to focus on. I'm
telling you right now, the companies
that don't do this, I have very little
chance of success because it's it's hard
to do that, right? Because in your
balls, you're like, I want to I want
them all. We can service a small to
mid-size business and we can also
service enterprise business and we can
service the middle market and we can if
we can serve them in New York, why can't
we serve them in California? I think the
challenge is is that buying habits,
trends,
decision making,
uh you know, in every business you have
a different way of decision-m is going
of their business is going to dictate
how you behave, right? If you're in a
small to mid-size business and there's
basically one decision maker, then you
have to set up your sales team to
operate for one decision maker. But if
you're decision, you're servicing a
let's say an enterprise business that
has a whole pyramid of decision makers,
right, with middle management and their
boss and their boss, then you have to
set up an a a um an enterprise
um support.
>> Yeah. So, accountbased marketing, they
call it ABM, right? Account based
marketing that you have to basically
have a system that's going to be able to
tackle all the decision makers and go
through that, go through their pyramid
of how to get. If you don't have that
set up, you're not going to be able to
close deals, right? So, you have to
identify who your ideal customer profile
is um in any business that that you're
doing and then just zone in and focus
and don't worry that you're going to
lose u you might lose that market
because you can't have every every
single part of the market. You want to
identify your part of the market and you
want to dominate that part of the
market.
>> By the way, we're totally got off track
from the fangan. I don't know how we got
into this. I think it was
>> when you started charity, how many
employees did they have?
When we started there was five employees
then it went down to two.
>> You were employee number six.
>> I was employee number I think I was
employee number four or five um when we
started then six months later it was
just me and and and the founder Yhuda in
an office on Kingston Avenue by
ourselves.
>> Um
>> he was a developer.
>> No.
>> What's it does he have technical
background?
>> No but he was an innovator. An
innovator. He was a bald sodaka. He was
an
>> build something like this. You need
capital.
>> Um, well, we didn't have capital for the
most part. We built we bootstrapped the
whole thing.
>> Yeah, that's why I didn't Wow. Yeah.
>> I mean, we had a little We did a small
raise like a few years in, but it wasn't
really a significant part. It was
bootstrapped till today. Charity is
pretty much bootstrap.
>> Um, when you left, how many employees?
>> When I left, it was close to 100
employees. This was co
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Um, I think around 100, maybe even
more actually. Between part-time people,
full-time people. Yeah, there was more
than 100 actually. Yeah,
>> I'm assuming they have employees in
Israel.
>> We have a big team in Israel.
>> If you're listening to this, please hire
people in. If you have already remote
employees,
>> you have a beautiful office in Herzelia.
>> Um, I was just there. Visit visits of my
old boys over there. Um,
>> if you have remote employees, hire
people in Israel. Smart brains. Come on,
just just do it
>> big time.
>> Um, how did your role evolve
>> over time?
>> Yeah, like you started doing what sales?
>> Yeah, based on the needs. Um when I
started we it would yeah we needed we
needed campaigns we needed to get
campaign sales. So I started doing sales
>> um and slowly but surely you know the
company was like this but then hired
sales people and then led the sales team
and then we had hired managers to help
manage the campaigns and helped build
out the infrastructure for for the for
the management of the campaigns. Um then
the product innovation needed to take
needed some serious product innovation
because this you know the site we built
um first wasn't we had to rebuild the
site many several times um to keep up
with all the innovation all the
technology all the you know
>> um it was outouse for for for the first
little while but then eventually we
brought everything inhouse.
>> It's faster.
>> It's just more efficient when you have
when you have people next door who could
build a new feature could build a new
thing. We always had some out um
outsourcing going on. Um like we built
an app, we we we had a in-house product
manager but we hired an offshore team to
do a lot of the development for it.
>> Um so I was focused on whatever was the
I was focused on growth.
>> So
>> whatever that meant
>> whatever that meant that was that was
where my focus was
>> but it evolved with time. It wasn't set
in stone.
>> Yeah. So sales then build a sales team
then innovation
>> management team and then and then and
then then my last two years I was f the
the sale I mean we brought in the who's
the current CEO Shai Travinsky who um an
incredible manager um so once we brought
him in and everything the sales team was
was operating the management team was
operating the most important thing at
that point was like technological in
innovation so I for the last two years
for the most part I focused on
technological innovation building out
new types of campaigns and different
types of functions and different create
c creatives.
>> Well, for the two main things, whatever
the customer was asking us to build,
>> did they ask? Because a lot of times
they don't.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In our case, there was
every bells and they wanted every bell
and whistle, right? To keep things
interesting, to keep things innovative,
to keep uh all the bells and whistles,
you know, keep keep the campaigns
because campaigns were rampant.
>> So, the organizations were always coming
up with a lot of a lot most of the time
there were really creative ideas. this
types of levels and this types of
buttons and this types of functionality
and this type of uh levels of of of
like um recognition on the page of big
bigger and smaller and all the different
designs and uh um and then um and then I
was focused on some other stuff some
some which saw the light of day some
which didn't
>> interesting yeah
>> if you want to figure out how to become
a better business listen to your
customers
>> yes that is the number one key
>> but did you need to sit down doesn't
mean you have do every by the way it
doesn't mean you have to do everything
your customer
>> say you have to filter out what's worth
doing and what's not
>> trends trends trends trends trends
trends so if one customer asks you
something you file it you put it in the
file and then another customer asks you
for the same thing and then you think
and then all of a sudden you start to
see trends and this is this is an
advantage that you have when you have a
lot of customers so when you start to
see that okay a lot of customers are
asking for this then you want to then
you want to basically surface it to the
top
>> surface it to the most to to the more
more tori prioritize it. Yeah.
>> So, a lot of companies have like things
where they put in like feature requests
and you can upvote. That's a really good
practical way to do that,
>> right?
>> Um, but we were we were following the
trends. We had the advantage of having
at any given time we had hundreds of
customers that were working with us.
>> Um, and we would just we would track
what the the the the trends of the
question. Usually, there were multiple
organizations asking us for some
variation of the same thing. You got to
get to the heart of what's behind it.
The customer doesn't always necessarily
know exactly what the feature should
look like out the door, but they know
that let's say for example, our major
donors need more recognition or our
social our social features on the
campaign needs more social whatever,
right? It needs more um we need to give
more social opportunities to share. we
need to give the the users more
incentives to give higher numbers for.
So whenever we would kind of hear what's
behind the ask, the ask behind the ask,
we would we you have to have that the
the art to it is understanding what the
ask behind the ask is and then you start
seeing trends that you um and then you
build accordingly.
>> Let me ask you, you've you've managed I
mean you've been there from when the
company was baby till close to 100
employees. You ever had an employee that
was exceptional that you knew this
person is going to be very successful
and what was it that they did that made
you think like that? What made them
stand out like this person is going to
do well here somewhere else?
>> Yeah. Initiative.
>> Initiative example did of somebody that
>> I I I'm a big
>> You're probably the guy who took
initiatives.
>> Yeah. But I was a big proponent of of
initiative.
>> Did you have somebody like that at
charity?
>> Yeah, sure. Lots. Tons.
>> They do. Do you have an example?
>> I don't know if I can think of an
example right now. But I just generally
speaking, you know, when you ask your
kid to go out to get milk for the store.
>> Yeah.
>> Right. And you tell them get red milk
because whatever that's what you want.
If they come back, if there's no red
milk, right? If they come back and they
come back empty-handed, that's called
lack of initiative. if they come back
with blue milk even though there was no
red milk. That's to me that's what I
consider to be initiative because
there's also some risk when you take
initiative as as an employee or it's
like the boss didn't ask me for red for
blue milk he asked me for red milk okay
but there was no red milk
>> right so you so you have a choice either
come back with no milk say boss you told
me that there's no there's no you told
me to get red milk there's no red milk
so I didn't I came back or you come back
with blue milk and the boss would be
like it's not what I asked for but I
need milk for my for my coffee so I'm
going to have right to me that's what
initiative is going to take in In in a
company with an employee, there's always
going to be challenges. There's always
going to be hiccups. There's always
going to be, you know, you you want
something to you send your employee to
do out something. There's going to be
waves. There's going to be, you know, uh
barriers barriers to to getting it done.
The question is, are they going to uh
take initiative? And then sometimes, and
there's risk in taking initiative
because sometimes your boss can get
upset at you and say, "That's not what I
asked you to do." You can say, "Yeah,
but you asked me to get the job done."
And I think a good boss
um I think a good a good manager a good
boss would say you know what even if it
messed something up even think you know
what you took initiative I appreciate
that now obviously doesn't mean you
shouldn't ask you try to ask but let's
say he couldn't right if I sent my kid
to the in that mush I sent my kid to the
thing he didn't have a cell phone he
couldn't call me right so obviously if
you had a cell phone just call tati call
him tati there's no red milk should I
get blue milk of yes yes yes you should
get blue milk right but there's going to
be scenarios where you can't there's
just going to be there's deadlines all
this stuff. So I I appreciate more than
anything are employees that take
initiative.
That's it
>> from the employees that I'm I'm assuming
you've had.
>> And by the way, that's with charity,
it's with Hatch, with anytime they've
had, you know,
>> is it something that you can look for in
an interview?
>> Um yeah, you do. You listen, um you
know, they say hire slow, fire fast. You
know that
>> Gary Vaynerchuk says that I don't think
he invented it. I think it was a
long-term
>> I've heard him say it.
>> Yeah. Um it's it's it's very true. Um
>> but do you find
>> No, nobody does, right? Um everybody
says it. Um but I actually have an an
article that I wrote and I never
published it. It's called hire slow,
fire slow. And my whole thing was that
like what are you firing so fast? Like
wait wait wait wait to see their
potential. But it's it's it's a good
discussion.
That's I want you ever have a scenario
where
>> you
were what's the word? wanted to fire
them but stayed but but
>> no you like hey maybe maybe maybe they
will work out maybe let's see
>> oh so
>> what's your temp temp temperament
like how long do you wait
>> I will say I will
>> how how patient are you
>> yeah yeah I will confess that I am not
great at firing fast
>> you ever had somebody that is
>> no
>> if they're probably like cold
>> you hear about them you hear about them
so it's it's not an easy thing to do
right because
um first of all it takes time to see if
people you know can acclimate to the
organization to the company to learn to
educate especially when you're hiring
Jewish employees that don't come with
degrees and and and so there's a long
education process to them right but I
will tell you like this I do think that
the slogan is something that you should
try to live by where you hire slow and
fire fast um especially when you're in a
fast growing company and you need the
right talent and you know Uh there's a
difference between uh you know, you're
not really being kind to somebody or to
the other employees if you're keeping
someone who's not good for the job
because you're but you're afraid to fire
them because you're not being kind to
you're not you're not really being kind
to this person because this is not the
right fit for them and you're just
prolonging the inevitable and you're not
considering your other employees that
are that are sacrificing or whatever
that they've devoted and committed
themselves to this business and you have
someone who's essentially hauling the
ship. So, you're not really being kind
by keeping them on if they're not fit
for the for the business. The kindest
thing to be, it's not easy, but the
kindest thing to do it is to let them
go. And I'm not saying it's easy and I
have not done a good job in this in my
in my life. What I will say the
counterargument to that and therefore
the wisdom, what is wisdom? Wisdom is
understanding this there's both there's
two counter arguments and then every
situation is different, right? So don't
don't you don't take uh this thing and
then you just start firing people
because somebody said it on a podcast.
You make wise decisions in the moment
based on every single circumstance
difference. I had a guy in charity who
in the when he you hired in the first
few months
um he wasn't great.
>> He was or was not
>> was not great.
>> Okay.
>> Um and but I had a deep but he was a
very very wise guy. Very wise person.
always had very deep insight, but he had
like a calm, cool demeanor. And we were
powerhouses at charity. We were like
bulldozers. We'd come into organization,
"What do you mean you want to raise
$100,000? We got TO RAISE A MILLION
DOLLARS." RIGHT? We were motivators. We
were like, every one of us was like a
little mini in our minds at least.
Little mini Tony Robbins. Like we were
all like, yeah, like we were and this
guy was like calm, cool, collective. And
I'm like,
>> how did you guys work together? Oh my
gosh.
>> It was the energy was amazing. the early
years in charity was like and even till
the day I left because I haven't been
there for a few years but like the
energy was like off the hook. Um it was
a drug. The whole the whole company was
like we were high. I was high for like
seven and a half eight years I was
there. I was like completely high. I
mean when you're helping organizations
raising millions of dollars within 24 48
hours that's a drug that's like a good
healthy drug right anyway. So this guy
was he had a very calm wise demeanor and
I was like this doesn't fit but this but
I felt something that like collectively
me and the other managers
let's wait it out. He ended up becoming
the biggest earner.
>> He was in sales.
>> Yeah.
>> Um because there was something that he
taught us. It's like you don't
necessarily have to be one brand like
crazy wild energy. He came in with
wisdom. He came some he was the guy who
would like would come in and sit and fab
with the organizations and listen to
them and do therapize them. He actually
ended up becoming a therapist. So now I
just gave it away who it is but but I
don't want to say it. He ended up
becoming a therapist.
>> Why make so much less money probably?
>> Let's not let's not get into that. He
just
>> therapist he moved approximately 90 to
$100,000 a year.
>> You're you're that's okay.
>> Social workers.
>> Social workers. Okay. But
>> not private
>> private started private. I don't know
what he's making, but I think he's a lot
happier today doing what he's what he
was meant to do. The point is he ended
up it's he ended up doing exactly what
he was meant to be me meant to be doing.
Um, so that was a lesson to me where
it's like if you give it some time and
you see something in them and even
though they don't necessarily fit the
exact, you know, square of where the
company is at that point there, there's
so you got to have both. You got to have
both and make the wise decision in the
moment and you might make mistakes and
that's that's that's business.
>> So here's a person that's a scenario of
you wanted to let him go.
>> You waited out and it was wildly
successful.
>> You have a scenario where you wanted to
let someone go there but you just waited
too long and like you did let them go.
You just waited too long.
>> Yeah.
>> What happened?
>> I waited too long and I let them go.
>> You felt you felt bad
>> because I was Yeah. I was weak. I was
weak. I was weak. I was I wanted to be
the nice I wanted to be a nice guy.
>> Um I don't think I'm any better than it.
I mean, I'm being very very honest. I
think uh I think I have a lot to do in
this in this in this world. I mean, I've
gotten Listen, in Hatch, I've let more
people go than I have in my entire time
in charity. So, I've gotten better at
it. Um
>> it's not a good thing to boast about,
but it's it's a
>> I think it is if unfortun
right
>> having somebody in a role where they're
not successful, it's not fair to the
person themselves.
>> Exactly. It's not fair.
>> It's not It's not really being kind.
Yeah.
>> So, obviously during the interview
process, you need to do your due
diligence as much as possible to prevent
getting to position where you need to
let somebody go.
>> Yeah.
>> What tips would you give to hiring
managers? Yeah.
>> Or looking back at the people you've let
go. What are some questions you would
have asked in retrospect during the
interview to see if they're the right
fit or not?
>> Yeah. I there so there are two things
that I do that I think are unique um
that are like my silver bullets like my
secret weapons. Okay. Um, once you do
the classic stuff, you ask them all, you
make sure that the experience aligns and
you make sure that there's no skeletons
in the closet. Um, and um, the skills
are there, right? The there are there's
one question and one tactic that I have
that I that I've that I've used over and
over and over again and I find to be
really good. A question that I had, I
don't know where I got it from. I didn't
make it up myself, but I got it from
somewhere which I find to be really
really fantastic is you ask them as
follows.
Has there ever been a time and an area
in your life where you had a deep
conviction and belief that either
something is possible or that you are
capable of doing something that everyone
else in your life told you that a it's
not possible or b you are not the person
to do it or you cannot do it and you did
it anyways and what was the result?
>> Are you testing for ambition? Yes, I'm
testing for character, ambition,
>> drive,
um, motiv, self motivation,
um, which are all of the characteristics
ultimately. So, right, you once the
that's why I said very careful, very
very clearly once you see the skills
generally are there, the education is
generally there, they've been in this
industry to some degree, once all the
like check, check, check, all the
classic stuff, okay, now how do you know
who the real person is? That question
usually gets me a really good sense of
are they self motivated? Are they have
an entrepreneurial spirit? Um are they
going to take initiative on their own?
Are they never going to within reason
take no for an answer when it comes to
challenging comes to challenging
opportun things and other opportunities.
Um, and if they can reflect back on an
op a time or an that had happened in
their old life and they could describe
it and they can reflect upon it. Um, and
they can show the results on it. That's
usually a really good sign. Um,
>> keep in mind
>> Have you ever heard that one before by
the way?
>> No, I really like it. Okay.
>> I really do. I probably
>> It's not mine, but I do. You know, it's
good plagiarism, but you could have it.
Keep in mind for those hiring managers
out there and business owners who are
hiring, not every role needs ambition.
>> Yeah,
>> sometimes ambition can be a scary thing,
>> right?
>> A salesperson who's crazy ambitious,
they might join your company and take
you to the moon, but a year later
they'll leave and open their own shop.
>> You have to be mindful, careful.
>> Um, you want ambition, but you also want
some other things that can
>> what's what's a good one that can like
not counterbalance it. Um,
like loyal not loyal. Yeah, loyalty.
>> Stick tuitiveness. Yeah,
>> as my mother-in-law tells us.
>> I like that one.
>> Yes. I don't even know if it's a real
word, but you could use it.
>> Yeah, it is a real word in there. Who
cares? You know, they real
like it's a slang.
>> My my my Yeah. My main, by the way, it's
interesting you're saying that. It's
very very very true. My main sales guy,
my my top sales guy at Hatch is not
someone who comes off as a very
ambitious or like, you know, salesy, you
know, convertible with like eight
beepers and like three phones like type
of guy personality like that.
>> Um, but he is
>> What's a beeper? Okay.
>> He's incredibly consistent.
He is has a quiet consistency about him.
He never misses an email. never misses
an opportunity to follow through, follow
up. Um, and the results speak for
themselves. So, yes, you are correct.
They don't always have to be, you know,
type A personalities or type A, whatever
it is. And like
>> um um, you know, alpha alpha.
Yeah. Who are, you know, um, so there
are other qualities um, that can get the
job done.
>> Thank you for pointing that out. I've
met so many introverts
that are salespeople that are wildly
successful because of one thing. They're
not persistent. They're consistent.
>> Yeah.
>> They when they're told to follow up,
they follow up. Then they're on top of
their game. They have a bunch of leads.
They're on top of it. They know what's
going on.
>> They They hate talking to people.
>> But they're very consistent.
>> Yeah.
>> They will not go to trade shows.
>> Yeah.
>> And they can make I've met somebody
who's making 350
>> Yeah.
>> a year. and like he doesn't like he
doesn't enjoy being around shoes. He's
not a hawker. Why did you you started
your own your own thing? When I started
Blackbird, I got fired from a job after
five months.
>> You got what?
>> Fired from a job after I was in a sales
role. Fired, started Blackbird. I I I
look at myself as nothing to lose. It
was I didn't give up a cushy salary,
>> right?
>> Why did you leave charity? I'm assuming
you were making very very good money to
start your own shop.
>> Yeah. Like what' your wife say?
>> Yeah.
>> A lot of risk on the table. Like what
happened? Were you pushed out?
>> No.
>> Um I I
didn't want to leave because things were
doing really good. I mean it was COVID
so we were definitely um challenged by
the market and the the you know the the
the unc things that we couldn't control
which was you know a pandemic. Um, but I
wanted to stay.
>> Wait, hold on a sec. Jews don't control
pandemics.
>> Yeah. No, we control the weather.
>> The weather,
>> but we don't control the the pandemics.
Yeah.
>> They didn't let us know yet. What's the
weather tomorrow? So,
>> yeah. Um, so I didn't I didn't want to
leave per se. There was like, you know,
but I I felt like I had to leave.
>> Why?
>> Um, okay. What the re the reason why I
joined charity is the reason why I left.
>> Ah, okay. I felt that um it became once
I kind of got a taste of what was
possible, I felt that it became my
mission in life to um scale Sedaka
beyond anyone's wild imagination. Okay.
I
>> was listening to is charity, the Hebrew
word for charity.
>> Yeah. Um so that was my I felt like that
was my calling, my resend, my reason for
existence.
um was to scale um charitable giving
beyond anyone's wild imagination. I
believe that the way to do that is to
not directly raise money but help the
people who are raising money
>> raise better.
>> Yes. So if you can help the people who
are raising money maximize their skills
and their ability um then you can have
the greatest leverage and you can have
the greatest chance of really blowing
this thing out of proportion. um for the
time that I was at charity, I felt that
that was my um and it still continues to
be, you know, they're up to five almost
$5 billion right now. So, it continues
to be a ma a major accelerator of
charitable giving. But I got hooked on a
deeper, more complicated problem that I
felt that um I could do some real damage
in that area as well, maybe even at a
greater scale. Um, and I felt like it
was the next wave and for whatever
technical reason I couldn't get it done
within charity because because of the
good reasons like they were just being
they were very successful at what they
were doing. There wasn't enough
resources and time and energy to go
focus on a to solve a very very
complicated challenge and to and so
therefore I had to leave to develop this
new um technology.
>> You built this baby from the ground up
charity. What was it like for you to
leave?
>> I was amongst many. It was very hard. It
was very was emotionally it was
traumatic.
>> When did you realize you wanted to
leave? How long before you left?
>> Um
>> a year
>> probably a year two like a year and a
half two years before is where this
concept of Hatch started to um started
to grow in my mind. Um and originally
obviously I was like all right let's
still get it done here. For from several
reasons I realized that it couldn't get
done there. So it was slowly slowly
slowly it became like a
became like a a bug that I couldn't get
rid of. became like a noise in my back
of my head that I just eventually I
couldn't get rid of it. Um, and then
COVID came around and CO was a big braha
because slowed everything down, right? I
wouldn't have left without CO because CO
was like things campaigns were slowing
down. Everything kind of went into slow
motion.
>> Yeah, there was everything went into
slow motion when it came to business.
And then once everything slowed down in
slow motion, I said, "Okay, I could had
had some time in my pajamas at home to
think about what I really want to do
with my life." And when that's when
things were started to slow down, when
the world started to slow down, I was
like, "Okay, I got to make this move and
I got to build hatch." It was very very
hard decision. Um,
>> did the people around you thought you
were crazy?
They didn't understand because they
didn't understand what what Hatch could
have like you know the dream that I
envisioned I had for Hatch
>> um that Hatch is solving
>> that organizations
um don't really know what makes their
donors tick click and give. That's our
slogan tick click and give. Um
organizations have relationships with
their top one two three 5% of donors in
their in their database. They're major
donors. They're they're mega volunteers.
They're if it's a synagogue or a church,
like the people who come every single
weekend to the to the thing, right? If
it's a school, their current parent
body, not alumni from 20 30 years. So on
average, I was finding that
organizations were basically building
only building relationships with 5 to
10% of their community at large. Um and
everybody else was even at one point
maybe they had a relationship or they
came through the door was getting
ignored.
>> How are you solving that problem? by
giving them the information that is
available
um on the most of society
um to help them make better decisions
about what motivates and inspires um
these people to give. So let me let me
break it down. Today in North America,
okay, um which means America, Canada,
right? North America there are roughly
over 30 different sources of information
on people. Okay. Um that will tell if
collected efficiently. This is public
data. It's public information. So a lot
of it you can get if you do a Google
search and you spend 3 four hours on an
individual you can find through Google
search and you go through all their
information. Some of it is locked into
like let's say mortgage holdings or IRS
database or so it's a little bit behind
uh a wall but it's all public
information that you can either readily
available or you can license. Okay. when
you take all of that information, so
it's information on their affluence, so
whether they have mortgage holdings or
if they're big donors through IRS, um
information on their um on their giving
history, right? So, organizations file
annual reports and for millions of
people, they're saying how much they
give. Um home value, how much their home
is, how much their home is worth, their
social presence, like what does it what
does LinkedIn say about them? What does
social media say about them? news
articles, what does the news uh say
about them, right? Um even down to like
what are they typing, what are they
tweeting about, right? What are they
exing about? Whatever. Um and so on and
so on and so on and so on and so on.
There's a ton of information on indivi
on on hundreds of millions of people.
Now, um the challenge is collecting it
all into one single location and then
using AI to actually tell a congruent
story about these individuals. So what I
wanted to do was I wanted to give access
to organizations to organization leaders
to fundraisers researchers and say you
don't have time to build relationships
with more than 5 10 15% of your
constituents or to have those long
conversations. Go meet them at their
home. But it doesn't mean that you can't
get that information and then start to
make smarter and wiser decisions based
on that data. So that's how the hatch
was born. We collect data from over 30
different sources. We bring it into one
single source. We call it a complete
unit profile. We've we leverage AI to
take sometimes thousands of little
pieces of information like lines and
lines of donation history. Okay? Lines
and lines of mortgage holdings, lines
and lines of social presence, work
history, lines and lines of career of
career history, educational history,
news articles, all of this information.
Um, and we bring it all into one single
location. And then we've built built
multiple models that give scorings and a
narrative around the person. So we'll
say that this person has a 90% affluence
score meaning that they that they earn
and they give and they are um um have
major capacity right we give scorings
around based on their career history
based on their giving to other
organizations based on all the headlines
and written articles about them. We
believe that they have a 90% affinity to
your cause because let's say if you're
an animal rights cause, they have their
skills and interests and and other
causes that they give to and other
career things that they've done show
that they have an affinity to give
towards animals because they love
animals or they and that's what the AI
does. It basically takes all some many
times hundreds sometimes thousands of
pieces of information and identifies
those signals of wealth, propensity to
give, affinity to the organization um
and so many other things. Um
>> what's your pricing model?
>> So we charge based on the size of their
database.
>> So you plug into a company say give us
your donut database.
>> Your donor
>> we we work with organization. Yeah.
Donut donut database. Yeah. Give us who
a database of donuts.
>> So we they they they integrate either
>> somebody has $30,000 donors.
>> Yeah.
>> What is it costing them?
>> Uh give me an example.
>> An annual thing. So it starts off that
the fees start off at $2,400 a month
>> for a small organization for let's say
5,000 people in your database.
>> Okay. And then it goes up to enterprise.
Yeah. Donors in your constituents
donors. They have like a dashboard where
they const and it constantly gets
updated.
>> Yeah. Daily. Daily. So they log in they
connect either they either upload their
data through through dataf file or they
connect our CRM. We're connected with
Salesforce and Blackpaw different CRM
>> and then within a few hours even if they
have 100,000 people even a million
people in the database within a few
hours all of this data is enriched and
it's in their database
>> in a few hours. within a few hours. Um,
and then they have a dashboard, the hash
dashboard, where they're able to see
every single individual all of a sudden.
There's a, by the way, I didn't mention
there's photos like I never seen this
person. I don't know what he looks like.
We give photos. We give
>> always accurate.
>> No.
And that's been that's that's a really
big challenge. It's called entity
resolution. It is not always accurate
because
>> what percentage is accurate?
So it depends. Usually around a 50% mark
generally speaking that we get the
general information on the people. But
it but it's but it's more nuanced than
that.
>> If your name is John Smith in America,
guess how many people you think are
named John Smith in America?
>> A million. But there's right now
currently living over 50,000 people in
the United States called John Smith.
Okay. So if I'm an organization, I have
a John Smith. Hatch is not always going
to get it right. Now garbage in, garbage
out. So if you give us a lot of
information like their email, their
phone number, the mailing address, we'll
probably nail the right person. But if
you just have let's say their their name
and maybe an address or zip code or
whatever it is, so it's going to be
harder. It's going to be harder to get.
So the le the less common the name, the
more accurate is going to be. And the
more common the name, the less accurate
it's going to be. But we have a service
for that. So we have a service where the
organization could say this looks decent
looks okay I don't and then you can
elevate and we have a team offshore of
10 data um data analysts who basically a
service to improve the data over time
>> wow
um an organization like a good
>> is that considered a small big
>> that's considered for us that's a
middlesized client for us
>> and that would be what a month five
grand a month
>> I don't No based on donors based on the
size of the the database. No, small
organizations are paying us roughly
2,400 a year and then we have
>> a year 2,400 a year and then we have uh
that's yeah for smaller things. And then
we have um and then we have
organizations that are paying us six
digits a year.
>> That's it's so it's such an easy
>> well it just it is an easy decision
relative to your organ. I mean we have
organizations that are paying us six
digits a year but they have a few
hundred thousand people in the database,
>> right? So it's it's it goes with it's it
goes with the scale of the size of the
organization. It's relevant to the
scale. Usually an organization the size
of the database usually is reflective on
a lot of like what they can pay and what
they you know usually
>> if you're a non for profofit and you
you're fundraising a lot. This is this
should be it's definitely something you
should be doing because if you can make
smarter decisions you can fund raise
better.
>> That's it. I mean think about it. It's
kind of wild that this didn't exist
before, right? Like if you're a
salesperson, if you're not using some
kind of enrichment tool to qualify,
>> right,
>> the the the prospect, the candidate.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Candidates,
>> just something you need information to
qualify if they're a good if they're a
good if they're a good customer.
>> So, we're qualifying the donor capacity
and donor affinity for the organization
so that they can make better decisions.
>> And our customers are basically they're
just making better decisions. People who
they were asking for less before, now
they're asking for more. people who are
they're asking too much they're now
they're asking less because they see
what thing right right you know people
are getting our customers are basically
their whole marketing is changing
because instead of sending you know one
message to these 100,000 people Hatch
can help identify not just capacity and
like you can use Hatch to find like show
me people in my database that like to
golf
because they have on one of their social
media platforms they have like skills or
interests as golfers I have
organizations that are basically for
their golf outings. They're going into
Hatch. They're putting in the filter,
find me golfers, and boom. And then they
have their 500 people. So now instead of
emailing the entire database for
golfers, they're emailing these 500
people. Plus, they're asking a volunteer
to call the the the the top 10 people on
that golf list because Hatch is telling
that they have high capacity or that
they're CEOs of companies to now sponsor
the golf outing or to be an ambassador
for the golf outing. So it's it's
completely changes how they fund raise,
communicate, everything. Give me an
example of a client that before Hatch
they raised X, after Hatch they raised
X.
>> I mean we get all the time um we get
emails from organizations. We just got a
$25,000 gift from this person because of
because of knowledge.
>> Yeah, we get anecdotal in we get
anecdotal feedback all the time.
Organizations are not necessarily
tracking from their research point till
the end because it's not like uh you
know they don't put it into their CRM
track you know when a researcher saw it
but we get anecdotal feedback all the
time. We we never we you know Hatch also
gives birthday dates. Just last week
someone was like Hatch told me that it's
his birthday. I had no idea. Yasi's
birthday today, right? Hatch will be
able to tell you that it's that it's his
birthday for many people and then I
reached out to him on his birthday and
he upped his pledge because I reached
because he he um because it was his
birthday and he's like, "Wow, thank you
uh for for calling me my birthday.
That's such a surprise. I want to up my
up up my pledge."
>> Talking about upping pledges, I want you
to double your daily giving pledge.
>> Okay, no problem. I told John that.
>> That's easy. That's easy.
>> Triple.
>> Triple. Yeah, why not?
>> Deal. We're gonna get on camera. It's on
camera. He's going to triple his daily
giving.
>> It's easy. Daily giving is the easiest
thing in the world to sign up to. It's
It's the most It's one of the biggest
satisfactions that I get in my life. The
daily giving emails.
>> Easy.
>> People think I give to every day and
shakers. I give every day to really
shabas. Do you give to
>> right?
>> You don't.
>> Right. Daily giving sets it up that you
give to duck every day. M Shabas they
send out a wire to the or
>> you know how you can give to on Shabas.
>> How
>> what does that mean? Elaborate
>> I remember I learned this once but so
Shabas you can't give to Daka.
>> Okay.
>> Right. So you have to so what is at the
end of the day? Right. So have a have a
give someone a hug before daming
>> on Shabas. That's that's but you can
also give through daily giving because
they'll give it to you to daily giving.
It's a dollar a day, but you don't they
don't swipe your credit card every day.
They swipe it once a month.
>> Yeah.
>> 30 bucks or once a year for $365.
>> Yeah.
>> And they set it up that way. So they're
not the credit card fees are not too
much. So it makes sense. Dollar a day.
You give it to every day. But two day
they already set up the wires and
scheduled.
>> The easiest thing to do with
>> every day guaranteed.
>> Guaranteed.
>> Dollar a day.
>> See, I don't see you on your phone
signing up yet. What's going on?
Dailygiving.org. Get it done.
>> Yeah. Yeah. film.
>> Get it done.
>> Take a take a video.
>> Get it done. Show us the receipts.
>> A dollar a day on his
>> daily giving.org on your birthday.
>> Let's go.
>> Um, you're tripling your your pledge.
Daily giving. Done. And if you're
watching, sign up for daily giving. It's
a mitzvah a day guaranteed. Every day.
Every day.
>> Um,
that's very cool. Hatch. You're helping
>> organizations raise more money.
>> Yes. People don't realize knowledge is
power.
>> Yes, knowledge is power. Yeah, that's
right.
>> I love it. Now, do you have competition
yet?
>> So, when I came into the space, there
were competitors. Um,
>> what are you doing better?
>> So, good question. Two fronts where
we've differentiated. Um, number one is
all the companies that were doing this
until we entered the space were not
giving what I called futureproof data,
social data. So, they were There there
are platforms called wealth screening
platforms that were giving wealth
signaling information. So how much
mortgage holdings do they have? What's
the what's the price of their home?
>> How wealthy they are?
>> How wealthy they are. Basically find me
who's rich. What we've done is we've
gotten that information plus we're
getting social signals. What is their
skills, their social presence, we have a
scoring on how socially influential they
are, their lifestyle information, their
full career history um um in
chronological order news articles, media
outlets. So what it does is it tells you
how rich they are but also how socially
influential they are and what their
skills their interest and their social
presence are. So it tells a more a more
holistic picture and I think for the
next
>> and where they give
>> Yes. So for the next generation of
givers right our grandparents when they
were giving or the past generations
the signals were basically okay how rich
how rich are you like how many assets
what's your assets look like? Today it's
much much different. People also give
based on their lifestyle. People are
joining peer-to-peer campaigns. People
are sponsoring events. People are giving
through corporations, through their
corporate giving. They're doing a
bikeathon. They're doing a marathon.
They're they're they're they're joining
some type of experience, right? So
lifestyle um is really important. Also,
today's day and age, it's not just about
finding the rich people to give. If you
can't give money, but let's say you're a
social influencer, right? You have a
good social presence. organization needs
you just as much as they need people
giving big checks, right? So that you
can be an amplifier and be a microphone
for the organization. So we can help
them find those people. So number one,
the big main differentiator that we did
is we got future proof like the next
generation of givers and the next
generation of giving said of growing
organizations. What information do we
need for that? So that's number one. Um
the second thing is is we were very
ahead on leveraging AI. So um we built
our because we have all this such
comprehensive data um the way we've
leveraged AI is mind-blowing. Okay,
organizations could go on to Hatch and
we have something called profile
affinity facts where it's gathering all
the information from Hatch and then it's
going to the large language models and
gathering all the information that's on
the person and it's literally giving
them facts. It's like imagine you were
like about this person that's relevant
specifically to your organization. So it
takes the information of your
organization right you're an
organization you help people with
organization helps people with special
needs on between this and this age
demographic in New York tri-state area
let's let's say okay then it finds all
the every all the information about this
person and then it matches them and it
gives you and matches their lifestyle
and thing and it tells you how likely
they are to give to your organization
based on your information based
information on their life right so you
read John has a really high likelihood
to give to your to your organization for
special needs because he used to be the
board member of this and this this
school and he's listed children or
special needs as one of his interests on
his social media and he was recently
interviewed on this podcast about
supporting this type of organization.
>> Wow. So it's literally like, you know,
in these shows, movies, nobody watches
movies, but let's say imagine you watch
a movie. What's a movie?
>> You know, when you have like these
politicians walk through the room and
there's an assistant coming over to them
and they say like, "Oh, this guy, his
name is John Smith and um he's the
president."
>> Yeah. Yeah. Presidents have just like
right as they're walking up to them just
to give them that data. Imagine having
that in a digital form for every single
one of your donors.
>> Wow.
>> So I have another question for you.
You're in charity. Charity's a
>> by the way, great questions. You're
asking fantastic questions.
>> I'm leading up to another amazing one.
Charity is a business that helps non
forprofits raise more. Let's call it a
business in the non forprofit space. You
start you you launch Hatch also. Why'd
you stay in the same industry?
>> Um
why did I stay in the same industry?
Okay. So um
>> drum roll please.
>> Yeah. Um this morning I actually got I
saw a
So it's in my blood. Okay. It's in my
blood.
>> What is in your blood?
um fundraising, fundraising, fundraising
um um helping um meas helping Jewish
organizations um to help Kalisro and
beyond um and it's in my butt so much so
now I knew this story I knew of this
what I'm going to tell you in a minute I
knew my whole life but I never saw it
from the source and this morning on my
way here I now finally saw it from the
source okay I'm going show you a letter
>> yeah Um, okay. Little bit of a
background. My zeda, my grandfather, my
father's father, his name was Rabbi JJ
Hak. Okay. Okay.
>> Rabbi JJ H was a very famous rabbi in
America. Okay. For decades
>> where
>> he was also famously known um as one of
like the Reb's general.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. If you ever see the pictures or
the videos of the Laga parades
>> Yeah. The Hashem Laga parade. Well,
Tashan was part of it, but black member
praise on Easter park with the Reba and
there's a man standing next to him with
a black top hat with a red beard.
>> Okay,
>> that was my that was my za red. He was
one of the Yeah. red of the family. He
was he was one of the famous most famous
of the labb of he was he he was a of the
freba he started an organization called
NCFJ National Committee for the
furtherance of Jewish education. That's
it's that's the logo.
>> What is their parent organization? I'll
tell you in a second. They're a parent
organization for for dozens of mistas of
organizations. Hadar Tora Baluva Yoshiva
and Crown Heights Campuna Girls camp and
thing release time which they take the
kids out for an hour. They've been doing
that for decades. Release time
organization. Toys for hospitalized
children. Bunch of organizations. Some
were started by the free the some were
started by by by the Reb. And my
grandfather was the one who ran this ran
this organization. A very famous rabbi.
>> Parents organization.
>> By the way, he was the first Jewish
podcast.
>> Huh. He had a radio show called the
Schmisville radio show
>> in America for decades. You meet secular
Jews all over the world. They will tell
you I remember listening to your
grandfather or I think so. So he was the
Jewish the first Jewish podcast was was
Rabi J.
There's a letter here that I just saw
from this morning from December 24th
1987. Okay. Was two years old.
>> December 1987.
>> He was writing a letter to Rab Eli
Kalbak.
>> Who's that?
>> Father.
>> Brother.
>> Twin brother.
>> Yeah. Twin.
>> Yeah. Twin brother. Is he still alive?
>> No, I don't think so. I don't I hope I
hope he's not. I mean, I mean, I hope he
is. I hope he is.
>> I hope he's if he if he is, I hope he's
dead. Okay.
>> So, he was writing to him like this.
Okay. And I knew this. I knew parts of
this reality a long time ago. This is
the first time that I'm seeing it from
from
print whatever letter from my
grandfather to dear. So, dear Elim.
Okay. So, this is Schlomma Kabak's twin
brother. He was a co-rabbi with Rabbi
Kabak and Kabakul big Tom
um wonderful person. So this is this is
like a two rabbis in America writing to
each other having a dialogue with each
other through uh through through uh
through a letter. Dear Alim. Okay. So
third of Tavis December 24th 1987. Dear
Alim, it's a it's two pages. I'm going
to try to read it as as fast as
possible.
>> It's worth listening. I'm
>> in response to your your your request
that I write whatever I remember about
about my grandfather in connection with
the city of Shine. I'm going to tell you
as much as I know my great
greatgrandfather his name was Hershel.
He came to America in 1885 or something
like they ended. Okay. I think that's
when he came that was the year he came.
He lived in he was a he was a I don't
know if he was but he was a right. So he
I don't know if he was but okay um he
came to America 1885 I hope I'm correct
about this not 187 but
>> and re rabbak
was doing research on shinv and found
out that rabi jak's grandfather
>> was
>> came from from shv so perhaps you can
get um so he's I'm going to tell you as
much as I know okay about his
grandfather Rabbi Jhak's grandfather
perhaps you can get more information
from my brothers although I don't think
they know more than I do the only one
who may know more about this would be my
brother Shalam. He usually hops around
and picks up these stories from some of
the rebel quoting in quotations and may
be able to give you more than I am
giving you here. So he says like this it
seems that shiver
>> okay
of blessed memory didn't permit to come
to America. So we weren't back then okay
we were firm Jews from from Galatiana
from Poland um and my great
great-grandfather was a follower of the
shin. Okay. So, he didn't permit to come
to America. He feared that America was
quote unquote tra. Okay. Which is not
not not kosher, not a holy place. Okay.
And that it would be dangerous to have
his his followers come to this country.
My grandfather was a newlywed and my
grandmother the the
Ba Draasel was a one and only by her
father Reb Parrots of blessed memory. It
seems that one day he called in my
grandfather the rabbi the my grandfather
and said to him
here is a pushka go to America and
become a gabit saddaka.
When my grandfather heard this he went
home and immediately began to pack his
belongings. His wife my seeing him pack
his clothes asked him
what are you doing?
Apparently, when the Reb tells you to do
something, you don't even go to your
wife. YOU JUST GO STRAIGHT PACKING. NO,
do not collect $200. Do not go to the
wife. Just go straight to things will be
a little bit different these days. You
probably have to at least talk to
consult the wife. But he was the Reb
told me to go to America. He just was
>> straight straight to packing or at least
the way my grandfather liked to tell the
story, which is an acute way. Okay.
>> To which um so to which he replied,
"What do you mean? I'm packing my
belongings and to go to America." So,
I'm just going to bring it. So she said
to him, "Hashmeik, did you go off your
mind? Did you become a sugar?" So
Hashmeik replied, "The Rebba is sending
me to America. He's going."
>> Boom.
>> Okay. So my grandmother immediately made
her way to the Reb and said to him, "Reb
my husband has gone has has gone off his
mind. What do you mean? He has he's gone
off his mind." Asked the Reb, he came
home, is packing his belongings
um because he said he is going to
America. She said, "So the Reb replied,
he hasn't gone off his mind. I have told
him to do to do to do this and you I'm
telling that you could be a Jew in
America too. Okay, this was a time where
weren't coming to America. This is 1885
or a few were right. It was very hard to
come to America in those days. Okay,
actually there was a big immigration
then but
>> wasn't so simple. Okay, when the when
when the of the Okay, so here's the next
story. When the sh of the town saw that
my grandfather blessed every was packing
his belongings, he too decided he would
go to America. So he began packing and
when his wife reu uh realized that he
what he was doing she immediately made a
way to the rebba and said to reba I
think my my husband has gone crazy when
the rebba asked how come she answered he
is packing his belongings to go to
America so the rebba told the shait's
wife to send her husband to him when the
came to theb asked him your wife tells
me you're packing your belongings why
are you packing to which he answered I
hear that hes is going to America so I'm
going to America too like you You know,
everyone was like, "WE'RE GOING TO
AMERICA." At this point, the Reb turned
to him and said, "And you, I tell you, I
tell you that you could be a Jew in Shin
also, and you remain in Shinv." So to
him, he he saw something in Hel. This
guy was he had something special about
him that he can send him into the into
the into the lines the lion's den can
send him into the danger and he'd be
okay to the to to to everybody else. He
didn't say to take to to take the risk,
right?
>> Was your grandfather's grandfather?
>> Yes, my great greatgrandfather. Okay.
So, this is the story I was told. Now,
this is Rabbi JJ saying, as you most
probably know, my grandfather was a
Gabitaka all his life. He was gabited
for yeshiva
in Jerusalem. And if you go to Jerusalem
and look up this look up their pinkus,
you will find the name of my grandfather
listed as one of the first of um of
in America. He founded two special
special projects. One was called an
eritis a fund for poor families in
Israel which was supported by himself
and he used to send these monies to a
representative he handpicked init who
would distribute the money to the
sadikim who suffered the pains of hunger
and poverty. And the other project he
made was ezra sadikim, a fund directed
to the rebel, the children of various
dynasties who were undergoing
difficulties in life, not having the
wherewithal to maintain themselves and
their families. My grandfather of
blessed memory made it his business to
send these holy people money several
times a year to sustain them. One more
paragraph. Two more paragraphs. After
World War II, when Europe was destroyed,
the Mahuim, which used to be on Prospect
Place in Brownsville, where my
grandfather had the mikvah and
afterwards move was moved to Crown
Heights, continued the fund of Anel,
which is still in existence today.
Several times a year, appeals are made
and the money is sent to one of the
people in Jerusalem who distributed the
sadik in this time. Okay, this next
paragraph now is going to tell you that
I'm going to tell you the first charity
campaign that ever happened in America.
Okay. At least over at least 100 years
ago. Okay. You ready for the first
around at least 100 years ago. The first
charity campaign. So you think charity
started 15 years ago? It started over
100 years ago. You ready for this? Okay.
It may interest you to know that my
grandfather was not a public speaker.
However, when it came Shabas ag and
shabas chuva and appeals had to be made
for these funds, what zadi used to do
was get up and say yidden the Jews in
or the sadikim in Europe need money and
as much as the entire sch will give I
will match it with my own money. First
matching campaign in America possibly
for the for the Jewish Jewish community.
Yeah, he's going to match
>> gonna think he's going to match. Okay,
we didn't invent it. This was already a
long time ago and then he would break
down and cry and that was the appeal. He
was indeed a very exceptional person and
there is much to be told about him
himself. One thing is sure of blessed
memory didn't make a mistake when he
made my grandfather agave saddaka.
It will in the one line I'm not gonna
read the rest of it. The whole thing
goes a little it will interest you to
know that when he was murdered on the
third day of PES
>> murdered
>> he was murdered on the third day of
>> JJ or hash
>> where
>> in his mikvah
>> by who in in New York
>> I'm not going to get into the details
but he was murdered off camera we'll
tell you the details but he was murdered
on the third day I was born on the third
day of and I was named after my third
name is his name is the same name I was
named after him on the third after he
passed away so I um
>> years.
>> Yeah, many years. Decades.
>> Where did he live?
>> He lived in New York, Brownsville. He
lived in things. So,
>> wow.
>> I am the great great grandson
>> of of al someone who was sent into
America, Sir Nefesh, to to raise money.
And he actually became a very successful
business person, but always focused on
making sure that he would do what the
shin to them to to raise money. And the
first matching c campaign, obviously,
I'm being I'm being half joking, first
matching campaign. So, I am the great
great grandson named after my third name
is aftersh of the first matchm. So, you
asked me why I stay uh I know this is
probably the longest answer you've ever
gotten to a question, but that's why I
stay in this thing because it's in my
blood and it's my destiny.
What a This is a great What time is it?
>> It's 11:30.
>> Yeah.
>> What in the world? It's two hours.
>> Okay.
>> Um Okay, we're going to finish this
episode.
>> Um if you're a not for profofit, you
should definitely talk to Moshi. Reach
out to him on LinkedIn. and moshi hatch
m
>> and if you m o m o at hatch.ai
>> hatch not hatch
>> hatch
>> hatch a yeah hatching an egg um you're
going to get clear information good data
on your donors it'll help you fund raise
more and I hope you enjoy this episode
we're really trying to get to 1,000
subscribers on YouTube so please
subscribe share it if you enjoyed it and
yeah we're looking for sponsors
the Gimmel Thomas