Can You Say Kaddish or Learn Mishnayos For More Than One Niftar?

Correct. >> Okay. Good morning friends. We have a very interesting topic. The garra on daf pav discussed the Mishna. The Mishna said that if a woman made an you thought it was your daughter or vice versa and you enold it then it's not effective because you had the wrong kavana. You were not mkav for the right person. So the Mishna seems to be saying that you need to specifically be for the correct person. The Gmorra says where do we learn this out from? Yani meaning you have to be you have to know her that person not for somebody else. So and that's what the garra comes out that you must have in mind a specific person. So the chabina in meim asked a very interesting question from the gumar earlier on and gimmel let's say someone has two wives and they both make another could you anull for both of these women simultaneously noar says you learn out from yia you have to null for her you can only enol for one woman at a time so the chabina asks how do you learn out two things from one pasak. The garra on gimmel learns out you can only anul for one woman at a time and the garra on pav learns out that you could only uh you have to be aware of the woman that you're anulling for. It can't be for someone else. So it's a stra I gimmel seems to learn out that you can't anul for two women sim simultaneously and pav learns out you have to be mabin for the correct woman fine that's the shila of the china what's interesting is in the course of this shila he deals with a contemporary shilah namely very often or it happens uh somebody passes away and there's no one to say kadesh for them and they'll call a yeshiva or or or they'll call a shul and they'll ask the yeshiva to hire someone to say kadesh. Now the guy saying kadesh for the mess has a list of about 5,000 people he's saying kadesh for you know and he gets a few hundred bucks for each one. Could you does that make any sense? Could you be could he be saying kadesh for more than one person? Could he be mad for the kadesh should work for more than one person? Another example, uh, often families want that Mishna should be learned for nif. Yeah. Okay. But here you have a guy, Mr. Mishnayas. You know, he could always learn Mishna, but is he allowed to learn Mish? And maybe sometimes pe, you know, people get paid to learn Mishna. There are services. You call them up. Could you learn Mishna for this mess? He's saying, um, he's already saying learning Mishna is for 500 other people. In other words, could you kill two birds with one stone when it comes to or so at least by far we learn out you can't that's the that's the shila um he says like this the says I got your letter and I was happy to see it that everything's okay. Uh and the first sh is like this. You hired someone to say now another person wants to hire him. I'm stopping the question is is it permitted or not? Is it like you're shortch changing the first person who hired you? So the china says every works for everyone. If your is that it should be for both of them. Similar to the concept that it says in one remembrance works for this and for this we're going to be learning soon. Fine. Um, also the Raas says you could say kadesh for all me is right when somebody says kadesh they could have in mind all the me is my grandfather said kadesh for 70 years for all the holocaust all those who perished in the holocaust it can't work it works so even though you were hired by the first company to say kadesh you could take another job and take more money I guess I'm thinking you know somebody calls to sponsor a shear right they want to sponsor a shir Then somebody else says I I you know I want to dedicate this year so no it's taken is it taken do you have the right to basically a prophet you know or a shul you know somebody dedicated a shaludis or somebody dedicated a kdesh so at first glance the chabina says at least for kadesh I don't know about a kdosh you know at least by kadesh it works for everybody but then he takes takes another view. He says, "On the other hand, it's like when the guy had exclusive rights to the he had a certain prestige." You know, I I acquired the rights of this kadesh. Um the first guy is losing some of his prestige if you incorporate the second guy. And then the uh brings where tells Abraham, you might think that we're going to end with everyone to no only Abraham. So we see that if if we would endem it would take away a little bit of the kashivas of Abraham. There is a certain kashivos to be to have exclusivity. Okay. At the end of this chuva, he added a postcript and he says since the kadesh the the should be for the benefit of the You can make the case that maybe you can't be for both. Why the gin says it says it means you have to write it for her and not her and her friend. Or the gumarim on mel it says could a bal be made for for two wives and the gar says no. to which the asks but how do you learn out from but we learn out from how do you learn out two from you learn out you have to write a get for a woman and not the woman and her friend we also learn out you have to write a get lashma or how do you learn out from that you can't be made for for two wives at the same time but you needed for what the garra says it's not effective. You have to say that the dasha you have to be made for it for your wife and not two wives. It's the same drasha as you have to be made for it for your wife. And if you're thinking the wrong person, it doesn't work. Both of these are one. Why? based on the riv that a person is not able to um based on the rivid in parag that a person is not able to be makave in his das for two things simultaneously. Interesting. The rivet says that a you can't a person can't be mav for two things at the same time. By the way, there's a famous who asks the garra says you're tyra and you come to hear me. So says why is hearing the migillah tyra migillah is also tyra. So it's not it's not bit tyra. What do you mean says no a person can only be for one thing at a time? So if you're the mitzvah of mikillah that's exclusionary. You will not be getting the mitzvah of and if you're in the mitzvah of you will not get reward for the mitzvah of ka sagillah anyway. So the rabbit is saying this general rule a person can't be for two things at the same time. So since we learn out from or from you have to do it for a specific person or a specific woman. So then ma you can't divorce two wives or you can't anol two nadarim because since it's imposs once we know you have to do it lashma and there's a known principle that you can't be maven for two things at the same time automatically you won't be able to enol for two women meaning the starting point is you need to have kavana for the person whose nether you're enulling once that's the case you can enull uh two people at the same time because there's no way to be you that's just an impossibility. It's already a known principle that you can't have two kavanas at the same time. So once we know you have to have kabana for this person then you won't be able to do do two based on this he the is arguing that you can't say kadesh for two people because since there's a known rule you could only have kavana for one thing at a time there's no way to be for two things. So even though at first he wants to say uh there's enough to go around for everyone. Uh nevertheless he sort of in conclusion has a different view on that that you can't now rev on this. How many people could you say kadesh for this was asked from Freriedman? Let's say a guy his job is he's a shamish in a shul and one of his sources of income is he's a kadesh zagar right there's such a thing they're people you know they're they're not the rv they're not the janitor they're the shamish and one of the ways they make income is they say kadesh for people so the shila is you know how good of a business is that how lucrative of a business how many people could he be saying kadesh for so look quote says he needs that there should be one kadesh a day per person. In other words, if he has 50 kad 50 mim on the list, each one needs to have a dedicated kadesh. if you're the you'll have additional ones because you could use the one before you could use the one before you could use the one uh before. So you have extra kadesh that are not kadeshim and if there are two minionim then business is booming you know you could go to the early shakas and then come to the second minion and then you could learn mishnas and you could have more kadeshim basically the number of kadesh recited a day are the number of people who you could say kadesh for why because the truth is according to the letter of the law. What they used to do back in the day is they would divide among the aim of number one got the first kadesh by himself. A number two got the second kadesh. Nowadays all the aim say all the kadesh but it's a balagan. It's you know it's to it's not really correct correct practice is one should say kadesh for everyone. And what if there are two or three people and only one kadesh? They made a gurel. So it would come out back in the day each got one a day and sometimes he didn't even get one but usually one at least one says. So therefore you're hired it's enough to say one a day. says, "Even if you can't do it every day, because sometimes there's a yard or whatever, but if you could do it most days, that's the number of you could rent out. Calculate how many kadesh you could say most of the time and that number of people you could say kadeshwar." And it's better that you should write down Kadesh one is for Oscar. Kadesh two is for Larry. Kadesh three is for Gary. Kadesh four is for is for FO. Write down which Kadesh is dedicated to who? It's interesting like why why does it have to be? But says it's a good idea. But says Mosha, you should know that even though Medina one kadesh is enough still, if the guy who's paying you money thinks you're going to be saying many kadeshim a day, in other words, guy hands you here's $10,000 for the year and in his mind you know what what he's thinking is you're going to be saying seven kadeshim a day for his relative. It could be he's paying for for more than one and therefore if you don't if if you don't it's gaza. Okay. It could be mama if they don't speak. It should really be like the letter of the law that he's only getting one kadesh. But it could be says it could be because he doesn't know. He thinks you're going to be saying many kadesh and therefore maybe it is a concern of gaza if you hire yourself out for more. Therefore, it's better to just be transparent and say, "I'm only doing one because you don't need more." And therefore if this becomes known and everybody knows you only say one a day then you don't have to make a stipulation be fush because um everybody knows that your program is you only do one a day. So I guess you know when Gdalia puts out if anybody wants to co-sponsor the shir you know that's correct that people know that you know they're not the only ones sponsoring You know, so like this. So really if for whatever reason you give an impression that you're giving exclus exclusivity to a dedicator for a mitzvah, a kadesh, a tora or mishna, then they think they're getting more than you're giving them. That could be of gaza. But when somebody wants to sponsor something, you're required to give them the basic amount and the basic amount by kadesh is one kadesh a day. Now is not talking about Mishnay. This wouldn't work for Mishnayas. In other words, if you hire yourself out to learn Mishnayas, maybe you can't you can't say, "Okay, I'm I'm going to do it for 70 different people." No, you're learning Mishna. It's for Ruvane. You can't do it for it's only according to it's kadesh because he only needs one a day and I'm saying 17 a day. So the other I don't have in other words according to you can't say kadesh for a thou 10,000 people if they're paying you. You could you could say kadesh for the you could only take the number of jobs as kadesh you say a day. This wouldn't work for Mishna. This wouldn't work for other things unless you make it known that um you're not limiting yourself to one dedicated person. But according to the of the originally that no you know one candle works for everyone it lights up the room for everyone then for other kinds of things you also it's unlimited. I didn't know that sits alazar wrote a safer called Evan Yakov and he also deals with this question and he disagrees with he says I saw in the according to you're allowed to take a job commenser with the number of kadeshim there are and says I disagree I don't see any logic to this to qualify like this and I don't see a reason he said I don't see a reason you have to write down is for larans is for Gary Kadesh You don't have to tell the relative. You're only saying one kadesh with one you could have in mind many. You don't have to like sit around in the minion factory every day since you're saying kadesh for 73 people to make sure you say 73 kadeshim. No. And this is based on that says on the rama inal who pass like that if someone's in the sh who's an ael on his father and mother I'm sorry if there's no ael in a then anybody who doesn't have a father and mother could say kadesh for all may say Israel Even though you don't know who they are, you don't know every guy in every cemetery. You know all the names. Um, but it works. So that means you don't have to make a list. It's for Gary. It's for Larry. It's for Curly. Even though you could ask. Maybe uh that's only by default where there's nobody to say. So it works to some extent. But maybe if you're being paid then, you know, they want they want a premium service, you know, they want premium kadesh. Anyway, it's an interesting offshoot of the sugara that the garra says that when you're made for a ne, it only works if you're specifically for that woman. And from there, we learn out two things. If you have the wrong person in mind, it doesn't work. And you can't even be for two people simultaneously. From which the chabina says, well maybe you can't say kadesh for uh two people simultaneously either. Okay, that's dab >> recording stopped.