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CHAZAQ's Torah Talks #184 Eli Goldbaum - Shalom Bayit, Shalom Divorce, Just Do It Peacefully
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Auto-generated transcript. Not time-synced to the video.
you had a hard day you could say
something in a rough tone the person on
the other side receiving that tone is
going to respond accordingly we talk
about the the concept of using I
language instead of you language and
it's an important communication tool so
if I say to you you always do that so
right away you put up a defense mode and
if I change that type of a concept and a
lot of the people that talk about sh
talk about these Concepts because it
makes a lot of sense that you know I'm
bothered by something not
you and it's you take the change of tone
changes the whole conversation and if
you take that type of a concept you
could really change marriages in a very
positive
[Music]
way and welcome to Torah talk kazak's
program with special guest we have with
us Mr Ellie goldbam all the way from BR
shalam Alum how are you thank you thank
you so much thank you for joining us and
we're going to be speaking about Shalom
bite Shalom divorce just do it
peacefully but before we get to the
topic if we get a little bit back on
about yourself sure and the great work
you're involved with as well thank you
so much again for having me today it's a
pleasure to be here and try to share the
message to try to do things peacefully I
think it's incredible for CLA so my
background is I actually work in the
healthcare field and about 12 years ago
some got of my head they tried to work
on a prenuptial agreement and I started
explain to you a little later just the
concept I started working with theum on
it never really expecting to get a as
and here we are couple of years later
and it's amazing the Hamas we've gotten
on that and from that I ended up doing a
people found out that I mediate divorces
and it's a it's kept me quite busy to
say the least and bar more importantly I
have uh successfully stopped quite a
number of divorces and uh we got people
to proper help and kept the shom b in
the house and I think that that's a
bigger accomplishment so uh again worked
on the a a a curriculum for marriage
good marriages to make good marriages
great marriages so yeah keeps me busy
right
now so let's jump into it there's a
couple and they're about to get married
what do you suggest for a couple to uh
before they get into uh this uh marriage
agreement advice you give to them so
yeah that's it's a great question so
it's not really me that's suggesting
this um like I said I worked with the
gum and I personally got a tremendous
amount of for the amount of time that
these gum have spent on this agreement
which uh if I could just give a give the
a website you could actually download it
it's free downloads We don't make any
money on this this is not uh this not a
business venture the name of the
organization is yashar initiative y a s
h J R initiative.org
uhar initiative.org org and everything
is on that website uh the actual
agreement is on the website can be
downloaded for free like I
said just quickly we I worked with on
this for quite a number of years until
he finally felt that it was an okay
agreement Hally uh he then sent me to
David who has really taken a tremendous
uh initiative to try to help us through
the agreement get it to the next level
uh went after that to for Sher and
Lakewood who also jumped on it right
away and again like I said old ASAS
online uh there after I was sent we
decided to go after the biggest pis in M
who thankfully reads English and
understands English and uh went through
this agreement did not give us an easy
time but bar we got is aama um glowing
as and then came back to America got
there SM the community Rabel has given
me ASA it's interesting story which
maybe one day I'll give you but uh the
the the GMA behind disagreement then it
really could make a big difference in
keeping people's lives peacefully I
think the month point that I'd like to
just bring out R David the first time I
met him said I believe that this will
actually save marriages and if people
understand what happens in divorce which
may Will T touch on later on will
realize that if you have a healthy place
to go
before there's all this interaction of
people in the community and what not
getting involved or the RAB other lay
people and you have a healthy place to
go to discuss the issues and whatnot and
potentially get people to a healthy
place before it gets ugly and dirty
which unfortunately happens in some
cases which we're working very hard to
avoid um you actually could save
marriages and I think that that's it's
an important point that rold David said
and I think it's it's certainly accurate
and I've seen it in my work so could you
explain to one that is not familiar with
a prenup uh it's a document could you
elaborate a little bit absolutely I
think it's important to understand our
PR agreement was was drafted as a
totally um it's it's a it's really it's
not a one-sided uh you know for the man
for the woman it's more of a gender
neutral agreement and the concept really
is without going into the detail is to
get people to acknowledge before
marriage that in case there would be an
issue we have an agreed upon B then that
we're going to go to and deal with
whatever it is that we have to deal with
one of the protocols of the agreement is
shom should be number one um to make
peace in the home to make peace in the
home if it's if it's attainable but if
not like you mentioned before I'm big
into Shalom divorce as well so if it's
either shom of Bas and if if it can't be
in there there some divorce should be
done peacefully peacefully without a
World War that's correct the damn image
that people don't understand and it's
it's incredibly painful going through a
divorce is not only the couple the fames
going through a divorce the parents the
grandparents siblings I've seen
communties
children absolutely 100% so uh a
marriage happens BR the couple gets
married and uh they want to have Shalom
bite they want to have peace in the home
any suggestions any advice that you
could give for for a couple whether it's
a new new couple or it's a couple that's
been married for many years absolutely
absolutely so you we're touching on on
what I what I ended up growing into we
had a uh a uh Tish program I don't know
was four or five years ago I was a round
table discussion myself was the
moderator
and was on the panel wise and benki
therapist Ro was on the panel and it
came up in the discussion that you know
there really is a need for good the good
curriculum some kind of good curriculum
that could be helpful in the mar mares
we're not talking about difficult
marriages we're talking about Good
marriages every good marriage you know
I'm married to quite a number of years I
read through the curc myself and I
learned from it and you know that the
concept is to take a good marriage or
make it into a great marriage make it
better make it no reason everyone could
use it you know I'm still learning we're
all learning and we'll learn as long as
we're we're alive and we're married and
we're happily married we could always
learn something every road you drive in
there's always going to be a bump in the
road especially on the day that's
snowing
so in marriage as well no matter how
well what happens there's always bumps
and things do happen
correct so one one of the things we
speak about I take the first first year
of marriage everyone realize but first
year of marriage is sometimes a little
more challenging only because you two
new people getting used to one another
and even in the best situations it it
sometimes can be a little challenging to
get to know spouse and to get
comfortable and familiar with a spouse
so if you're able to learn certain tools
and those tools could help you and make
your marriage and your adjustment to
marriage easier and as you grow in the
marriage with additional challenges your
children are growing older some children
you we all know what the challenges of
children some some some children do
better in school some sometimes less
well in school uh you potentially have
sibling rivalries sometimes parents
children uh shabas come up and you go to
your parents and some of the nephews
nieces uh could potentially cause
uh certain issues between you and your
spouse because it's her children your
children whatever the case may be I'm
sorry her nephews her nie that
potentially enter you know they work
together with your children but not as
well as you'd like to and and and it
causes friction and whatnot so we
actually came out with a curriculum I
worked uh it sort of came to me right
after that video um I was speaking to a
therapist name is Lisa tski who is a
good friend of mine and she literally
came to me with a cur culum like
literally with a bow and tie and say
Here's a curriculum so we worked on that
for quite some time it's really her
curriculum but we put a lot of time in C
into helping her Mak it into a good
curriculum it's actually we put it out
into a book it wasn't the intention of
it the intention was to really come out
with a curriculum that we're going to
train ra with teachers col teachers to
give over this curriculum it's still
something we'd like to do um the
challenges people are busy and it's hard
to find time to to go through the
curriculum in a proper manner but uh the
book actually came out I think about 2 3
weeks ago uh it's called me me and you
what I wish I knew um I know it is
available in some of the farm stores
it's it's actually specifically to our
community the from Community it's not a
hash book it's simply taking some basic
concepts which you maybe talk about some
of the basic concepts of what uh I'll
give you some some very simple example
um the beginning of the book talks about
a concept of getting to know yourself
very often in order in order to be a
part of a marriage I need to know myself
so I could help my spouse help me so as
an example if I don't know what I want
that hot day work I come home and I use
this as an example you know different
people want to be treated differently at
the end of the day at all day do me a
favor leave me alone give me 15 minutes
let me just get to myself and I need I
need the Breather there are other people
who want their wife to dot over them or
husband to do over them and say you know
like oh sh I feel so B you had a rough
day and be interactive so if you don't
know what you want how's your spouse
supposed to know and very often we we we
have this false notion and certainly
when we get engaged I know I was there I
there to my wife I think eight or nine
times and I felt oh we really know each
other so well and the reality is we you
know we really don't know each other and
certainly once we live with one another
we start realizing that we didn't really
know each other and we think that our
spouses read our minds and and very
often we ourselves don't know what we
want even if our spouse read our mind
you you wouldn't necessarily know what
the spouse wants but you know we knowing
yourself that's a very first uh very
important point and then there's also
the top of communication I've seen this
many times where there's things that a
certain uh spouse wants but they don't
know how to communicate properly to the
other side thank you yes it's
communication is key key key to
everything um how to communicate simple
thing had a rough day wife comes home
she had a rough day not the time to talk
about it that doesn't mean we don't talk
about it ever we talk about it in 50
minutes in an hour or two hours when
things cool down you know so when when
something is not going to be spoken in
the right turn tone and the M you could
say something we all do that we could
you had a hard day you could say
something in a rough tone the person on
the other side receiving that tone is
going to respond accordingly so one of
the things I talk about often is is the
concept of not I don't like to play
defense no one wants to play defense so
if if someone says something we talk
about the the concept of using I
language instead of you language and
it's an important communication tool so
if I say to you you always do that so
right away you put up a defense mode and
if I change that type of a concept and a
lot of the people that talk about sha
talk about these Concepts because it
makes a lot of sense that you know I'm
bothered by something not
you and it you take the change of the
tone changes the whole conversation and
if you change the conversation that's
how you that's how you uh I just you
know on the way here was talking to
somebody trying to help M bias and just
explain to him his wife just
needs words of affirmation constantly
just give her what she needs give her
what he he has a lot of ESS I said the
same thing you're saying in a word of T
is I showed him how he could go ahead
and change the language to show it as an
appreci ation that his wife did
something good and if you take that type
of a concept you could really change
marriages in a very positive way U you
obviously the book is quite voluminous
it's not a small book but it has a lot
of examples and whatnot how you could
really work through some of the things
on your own um some things you may want
it write for yourself to even get to
know yourself not necessarily you're
ready to share it with the spouse at the
time that you that you're writing it and
you may be willing to share it you
depending on where you're holding your
marriage some times in an early part of
marriage you're not comfortable with
something and and over time you you be
more comfortable maybe you speak to a
rub or th not necess therapist even
someone as a coach uh could be a class
teacher College teacher in an early part
of marriage but you know these are
things that are important it's very
important and you know we we really feel
in today's society specifically we are
in a very high tense Society the world
is moving very quickly very um how many
spouses both spouses have to work to
earn a living today uh there's Rec
a podcast I saw someone was talking
about the AA tuition crisis and you're
basically saying that in order for
people of any size family to to survive
you need to make hundreds and hundreds
of thousands of dollars it's not really
doable in most families unless you have
two two spouses that are working and
that just adds to to the trauma and the
and and the difficulty of making a good
shaomai and spending time I you know I
personally uh it's not so easy it didn't
happen in my early years but I try to
have a date night once a week with my
wife go out you know he doesn't have to
be who knows where but you know we go
out to eat supper one night a week and
just it doesn't the most expensive
restaurant I was actually talking to uh
someone very involved in the therapy
world so they went out to eat they spent
$200 on the dinner my wife said to me I
don't understand you spent so much money
on the supper he goes an hour of therapy
is way more expensive I'd rather do this
you know so that's that is hilarious
that is hilarious but it's very very
very important I uh I I know many
couples that took this upon themselves
and their whole sh B has changed forever
because there was a lack of
communication a lack of time spent
together and it's always busy at home
and things are always happening so it's
very important to go out quality time
quality time is very important and not
texting him on the phone and being busy
that's another story we'll talk about
that in a second but unfortunately there
are cases where uh sha Bice they try
this that and everything and it just
doesn't work and just what you said
texting I think it's important you said
communication yeah communication means
you give undivided attention if I'm
sitting and talking to you and you're
busy texting on the phone while I'm
talking to you that's not undivided
attention see I'm communicating I heard
what you said I don't know I know when
someone's talking to me if I was taking
out the phone it just it became a it
became normal in our society I was
listening to actually someone who is not
from talking about the the you go to a
meeting and it used to be that before a
meeting you sat around you spoke to one
another and you gained the ability to
learn
communication right and and and proper
communication today if you walk into a
lot of these meetings no one's talking
before Mee all on their phones and the
second we start the meeting we start
talking to one another even during the
meeting correct and it's so you know it
became something that in a sense we feel
is okay and it's proper but really is
not it's really it's really it's it's
really against everything that makes any
sense it's not respectful it's not it's
not nice so if we could learn that art I
think it certainly would help in
communication and marriage and whatnot
as 100% so I was saying before about you
know a person tries everything and
unfortunately it's not working out CL so
we you have a whole tractate about
divorce and uh as the topic was sham
divorce just do it peacefully uh you've
been involved with this uh what what do
you suggest for a couple that
unfortunately is going through uh the
difficult time period of of separating
and divorcing it's a very painful and
fully loaded question say
uncomfortable question but uh it's
unfortunately relevant I think it's also
it's beyond that I think it's also what
is the role of people in the community
what's the role of family and whatnot in
that in that state I I think that being
supportive just as a community we should
be supportive to people but we have to
be careful I I talk about this concept
of TMI too much
information people um I think we all are
are prev to certain information on
perhaps if we know someone going through
a divorce and people come to us with a
lot of information and sometimes when
people give information or too much
information it's indicative of a of a a
very different story not necessarily
getting the whole picture um I think
it's incredibly important that people
who are going through the divorces
to understand that it's a very difficult
challenge that they're going through
they need people to have
divorces support I'm sorry they need the
support everything else but at the same
time it really should be dealt with in a
manner that doesn't increase the
fighting right if I get people to me in
the early stages and a lot of of late my
name has gotten out there I guess I
charge a lot of money I don't charge for
my time so I'm you know I've had a
tremendous amount of success in this
area but to work with people and
understand that you know a simple thing
one of the things that attorney will
typically advise and I actually got some
crit criticism for saying this but I'll
say it again anyway um they'll advise to
go ahead and to put in a restraining
order and sometimes the restraining
order is necessary but I tell people if
let's say you believe that that
restraining order is going to cost you x
amount of months or years till you're
going to finish a divorce because
ultimately it's not a gaka think to have
restraining what to put against somebody
and the person is going to potentially
cause you to pay for it as a lack of a
better term and if you think about that
and say you know what let me weigh the
pros and cons of this restraining water
now I'm not talking about a case where
there's a real need for it but it is a
tactic and again I'll be clear on that
it's not where there's a need for it of
course you have to do what you have to
do but very often it's a tactic that's
used in certain cases and it's a gashaka
feeling maybe the first minute you got a
restraining order and you know the
spouse is pathetic not get see the
children or whatever the cas child
custody and stuff like that and you end
up paying for it in the long run and
it's not only in this only in this
particular Pro this point of the M of
the divorce but in the bigger picture as
well if we're able to keep cases from
getting to be the next World War and I
work a hours and hours to keep people
calm and realize that there's a there's
a method to my madness and that is to
stay cool stay calm and to just be Maat
which means to just give in on certain
things in the initial stage for the
broader picture I believe and I've
showed it to people time and again I had
to get that was done last Thursday and
it's exactly what I told the guy when he
called me after he finished he thanked
me for getting it done and the person
was helping out was a sister-in-law I
said I want you to become my Advocate to
help me in other cases that you told me
it's not going to work my case is
different and we have to be tough and we
have to be tough and we have to be tough
and I said I promise you that the
quickest way to get from a point A to
point Z which is where you got to get to
which is the divorce is by going ahead
and giving it on certain things and not
making a big deal on certain things even
though it's
painful and he said I will be your
Advocate anyone you have a a problem
with this and I'm like he wasn't an easy
case in the sense that he really didn't
feel that I was giving them the proper
advice he felt that certain things we
have to push back and fight back I find
that it's the oxygen a lot of the cases
the fighting and why not is the action
of the divorces and if we're able to do
this in a peaceful Manner and that's
really the concept of the prup and
that's where I got it from the
prenuptual agreement basically gets us
to a healthy place it gets us to a place
to deal with it before we have all the
other people on the outside that
potentially will give you their advice
um one of the things I talk it's a very
painful thing but it's a reality there
are so many cases I deal with that it
could be rotum late people or whatever
it is that get involved on a case and
this nothing wrong with me giving
someone advice on something but my
advice is only as good as what I've
heard if I didn't hear from two sides
I'm giving a one-sided advice and I can
give people story after Story of cases
that when I present side one it sounds
like this is no question this is the way
the case got to go um several cases that
I've saved it in sh bias have come to me
like that when they presented the facts
everyone was saying divorce divorce
divorce and then I heard the second side
and I got a totally different
perspective and you get the other side
the other perspective and you start
realizing there's two there's two
perspectives here I don't only might
call them sides and if we're able to go
ahead and mesh those perspectives very
often a we could potentially have a shom
bias B if we certainly can have a shal
divorce and it's just a matter of
understanding that as painful as this is
and I can't begin to tell you I'm time
sitting in mediation people don't even
begin to understand there is another
side they only see their side they see
their picture it's an emotional thing
and and if we're able to cut out the
emotion for one second and think for one
second I do this with couples all the
time I say I understand it's difficult
because you're living in your reality
but if I'm able to go ahead and just try
put yourself into the other person's
perspective try to understand where
they're coming from and I've seen so
many cases in peacefully because of that
and that's that's really my goal and I
think ultimately and probably most of
the work that I do as much as I try to
help the couples and and and get them
through it I I see the devastation to
children I I hear this all the time
people come to me I'm doing this for my
children I'm doing this for my children
it is so painful to see how the children
are getting destroyed you're not doing
this for your children I understand some
sometimes you don't have a choice and I
think it's important to understand that
and recognize that there are difficult
cases out there there are difficult
personalities there personality
disorders um but in a lot of the cases
things could be avoided and the kids
suffer the kids suffer terribly through
it and and it's some we have to stop as
as CLA is you know I I talk about this
concept we have enough people that hate
us we don't have to hate one another we
have to work together the community I
think could be supportive but really if
you're not involved with the case why
are we taking positions in someone
else's divorce it's between that couple
why is it why is every case becoming a
whole Community uh issue let's keep it
as as as as simple and as as peaceful as
as possible and I think that message
could really reverberate in their commun
community and try to get people to
understand these professionals out there
with the people don't understand keep
the cool not get not get the fighting
out there I think that's what wants from
us to just do things peacefully do
things of CH 100% there was an
individual that got divorced and uh it
wasn't unfortunately you know like it is
sometimes it wasn't peacefully done and
after many years he was you know
thinking it over he told me he's like I
just wish it would have just been you
know better for the kids and for the
the families this and that I always tell
people that Shalom comes from the word
Shalom peace comes for of complete and
comes from which is a portion whenever
there's only a portion of the story
one-sided that's where
there's and when there's sh the picture
is full and there's shalom shalom B and
again like Ellie goldbam tells us
beautifully shalom shalom divorce let's
do it peacefully and we have we have a
custom on Torah talks which is a final
message M for our broad audience oh wow
okay so I I I'd like to just focus on
something I've been talking about
recently um people ask me all the time
why is why they why our community has
more divorce today there's there's a lot
of divorces definitely I think every not
just our community it's the world it's
the world yeah so it's a it's a tough
challenge I have a whole list of reasons
that there are you know whether it's
more divorce is percentage wise there's
there's too much divorce going on
so so there's one thing that I've keyed
in on um not necessarily the only reason
certainly not the only reason but I
think a a as a BAL boss I I think I
could talk because I actually have the
challenge I I have a smartphone in a
sense and I think it's something that um
we we have to acknowledge that our
generation is dealing with this I I
spoke recently um at a Shai speech that
I I speak quite often I I spoke about a
a concept I think is an important
concept concept um I was reading an
secular book about the anxiety and
depression of this generation the G
world the non-jewish world is waking up
that the the anxiety and depression is
coming about from people kids watching
all kinds of things on on on
devices and I think that anyone who
doesn't realize this is just in denial
we all realize this is a challenge but
it's a good babysitter and that's why we
use it so this particular book started
off with a incredible story of a kid who
comes home and tells his father mother
guess what I had this billionaire came
to school and they were offering a trip
to Mars and I want a trip to
Mars this billiona came and explained to
us we're going to take these children
and set them to Mars we're not going to
know how they're going to acclimate to
Mars so we want to see how they'll
acclimate to Mars we want to see if
they're even able to come back to earth
and acclimate properly to Earth is the
body going to grow properly Etc and this
kid says me my my friends we we won a
trip to Mars and not only that you
signed as parents you already signed
consent consent form so so he starts the
the the concept you know like we' ask
this to anybody I don't know any sane
person who would go ahead and send their
children off to Mars as an experiment um
but at the same time what he was trying
to say is that's really what's happening
with cell phones and what cell phones
were is a bunch of billionaires as you
could look online and find out that uh
you know Facebook and whoever else I
don't know all these these different
companies who are all billionaires and
all there from money were brought to
Congress a number of years ago to
explain why it is that their devices and
whatever their apps are not causing this
type of damage to the world and the
world's starting to figure out that's
happening but as back to our story so
these billionaire is it basically took
us all and made us this example and our
children ourselves we're going into this
world of space and we're going into Mars
and we're taking our Our Lives getting
taken over by these type of apps and
whatnot and it's going up we don't know
how we're going to come back are my kids
going to come back my my children that
are married are they going to come back
that they going to be able to acclimate
back in society or not and what not if
you take the concept that he spoke about
I think it's really what we're dealing
with today and I think it's something
that if we're serious about this I I
said at that time I said we talk about
cigarette smoking um you know we all
know that cigarettes are dangerous are
there people who smoke yes there are
people that smoke but most people who
are smart healthy people realize
cigarettes are dangerous there's even a
warning on the box of cigarettes so you
say you know so we realize that there
that it's a danger um drinking we don't
let kids drink until they 21 or whatever
the case may be the legal age do kids
drink before yes but that's another
issue and a major problem of sh b as
well but um you know same thing with
gambling there responsibility or what
not so I think that people would honest
with themselves and realize that these
are things that are very dangerous to
life so to go ahead and tell you don't
have a phone it's a little different
because I can live without a cigarette I
can live without drinking I could live
without gambling and bar I do my phone I
need my phone so you know in a sense we
make it into something that's goer but
if we really believe deep down that this
is a cancer that this is really
dangerous this is destroying marriages
it's destroying relationships it's
destroying children it's destroying all
kinds of things and I and I I just want
to touch on another thing that I've seen
constantly uh I ask this to ra all the
time is who's who's giving has to our
generation it's not necessarily the I
know we're doing a great thing here I
would like to give the proper ASA but I
get the clips when I deal with people in
divorce they always send these clips
that they saw online of this person
saying this and this and whatnot this is
the people giving our children the ashas
and and there's influences I don't even
know what I'm talking about because I'm
not involved with that world but that's
who's giving has to this generation
danger social media and I've seen it
without a question and again it's way
broader than just social media but with
social media comes about the depression
the anxiety the addictions Etc and and
there's a lot to talk about on that
topic so I think if I was to looking at
to take this and to take everything we
you spoke about and again I thank you
for having me 100% it was an amazing
Torah talk and very informative and very
very very
important Al if every person knows one
two other people that are going through
you know a difficult situation whatever
it may be they should hear uh Ellie Gold
Bam's important message uh Shalom B
Shalom divorce uh just do it peacefully
corre we want to thank you for joining
us so much
very very important messages and we want
to thank everyone 8:30 p.m. Eastern
Standard Time Tuesday nights kazak tour
talks with special guest k.org
chq.org glive special thank you to the
various different platforms that host
kazak tour talks with us shout out to
our friends at Tor any time also a
special thank you and shout out to our
friends at Daily giving a dollar day
really goes a very very far away daily
giving.org we encourage everyone to
check that out as well and the feedback
has been amazing phenomenon and great we
encourage people to continue please
sending in the feedback uh future
suggested guests uh for kazak Tor talks
are welcome as well and we have our
massive H campaign coming up please
everybody get involved with that as well
over 1,800 kids from public schools to
just the last few years alone plus
thousands more kids after school
programs Su school programs about 20
different locations teens Vision uh
programs and initiatives a youth center
a lot of amazing things and it's just
the beginnings so we want to do a lot
more please reach out to get involved
and once again thank you to Mr Ellie
goam for joining us and shout out to
behind the camera we should all be
Shalom we should hear
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