CHAZARAH - Chullin Daf 67 | "Nothing but the Daf" with R' Eli Stefansky

[music] >> Good morning, Rabbis. So good to be back. I want to say it's a sad day today. We are finishing one of the best program in Shas, Halo Treifos. We're holding on some of the lines over there. We did a bunch of lines over here, but we could go back a little bit just because you know, there's people that don't really they're not holding. So, there's we're discussing a Sugya of different types of worms they can eat. They can legally eat. How logically they can eat. There's a worms that grow that were produced or they were born in a vessel. We're going to see later on also worms that were born in fruit, detached fruit, not detached fruit. No, no, no, no, no, no, we're not talking about spontaneous generation. There is no spontaneous generation. We the the friend already discussed that based on today's science, we know there's no such thing as spontaneous generation. What the Gamara calls spontaneous generation, regeneration, or generation, spontaneous generation, the Gamara means what the Gamara knew then, basically to the naked eye, that there was if it if you if you don't see the the eggs, then it's considered spontaneous generation, then you're allowed to eat it. You're allowed it doesn't matter. So, it doesn't really matter how it was created or not. But anyway, we're not going into that Sugya. The point is that any worm that was created in a in the ocean or in the Nachal here, that's the picture I just showed you. Oh, the Nachal. That I guess that's why I showed you subconsciously my last picture in Switzerland. Here's a Nachal. And my my son, my oldest son was drinking from the stream. I said, "You're not supposed to drink from the stream." It says in the Torah, "In the streams, don't drink." That we found out he was right. You're allowed to drink in in the Alps you're allowed to. So it's not a problem. There's something similar almost it's the next step down it's Haritan. It's water that comes from the the ground that comes up it keeps on moving. It's not it's not it's not the same water it's moving. Then you have non-moving water it's water that is stationary. You you created a bar a Shiyach Ma'ara different types of um What are they called? No not reservoirs. Reservoir reservoirs. You different different types of ways to to keep water you know for through the summer whatever. So one of them is round one of them is uh is uh rectangle the other one has a cover it's more like uh like a cave. Great. The worst of the worst and for us in our circle the best of the best in terms of eating worms is are worms that were that were born in a vessel. Okay. So we had a Klal Uprat we learned this this Halacha that the worms that were created in a in a vessel that you're allowed to eat it we we learned it from a Klal Uprat Uklal. So that what if you look at the top puzzle it says Bamayim Bamayim Bayamim Uvenachalim. Bamayim is general general all waters all bodies of water doesn't matter what. And then there was a Prat Bayamim Uvenachalim the Gemara asked but Bayamim Uvenachalim the Prat is what we want at the end. It should be a sandwich it should be Klal Prat Uklal. Or we have Klal Klal Prat and that's the top of the Gemara the Gemara says Hotal Prat Benayim we have a in the middle of a word but it doesn't matter. It's as if pretend that the Prat goes in between the two Klals and then you got a uh a legitimate Klal Uprat Uklal. Bamayim Klal Bamayim Bayamim Uvenachalim Prat Bamayim Klal Uprat Uklal Klal Uprat Uklal we have the Klal Uprat my friend for Mayim Noyvim Af Kol Mayim Noyvim water that has a source keeps on moving my Rabbi and what am I saying that is also to eat worms Harrison only eaten in the sewer the number two one that the positive talks about oceans we're going to add these guys also they're also awesome. And what type of worms could you eat by Royce shaking all right all these guys okay so this is where we're holding the mall as the tomorrow my problem with forest mine the day I got a car guy it's gathered what is gathered on top of the ground I've called my my Rabbi I feel maybe the bar she actually be awesome or my meat meat Caleb. Let's let's take one more let's do three that are awesome oceans Harrison that come from the ground and even a bar she or that doesn't come from the ground but it's stationary it's there is a body of water so to speak maybe that should be awesome and only one one type of water that the the the worms grow in their motor and that is in a clay or my meat meat Caleb. This is going out in came to my honey lay. We already learned we have [clears throat] here the positive says as it that adds one more thing and we have a cloud of product cloud so now we have two things that we we added we have four types of waters you have to add two type two types of waters to it so the worst of the worst is the clay that we got from the cloud of product cloud and then we also have. >> [clears throat] >> Sorry not this one we have as a follow. Which is the second one and we're going to add the boys shaking tomorrow which are stationary they're very similar to a clay. The bay The bay of a small tunnel. And then the other Gamara just goes over very, very similar. So, when we have a cloud by the cloud, by the way, this is going to be over very soon. So, again, just for the few people that have trauma from this stuff, they shouldn't because it's very simple. The difference between a cloud by the cloud is, I mentioned the other day, we'll go over it again quickly. Cloud, prat, cloud. The Torah says, all types of water you're allowed to eat the worms in them. Then the Torah says, no, only the ones from the ocean. Then the Torah says again, another cloud. So, when you learn cloud by the cloud, it adds many things to the prat. It's not just the oceans, it's many. And it has to just be similar to the prat. But when you do a ribui, meal ribui, it's the same exact thing as a cloud prat to cloud. It's just throughout shas, you're consistent. You're going to either learn you, you know, you're Rebbi Akiva, you're going to learn the entire shas, cloud prat to cloud. You never do ribui meal ribui. If you're a type of person, a type of tana that does ribui meal ribui, so he does it throughout shas. What's the difference though? The difference is that a ribui meal ribui, you get to include more stuff and you only take out one thing. The thing that's the furthest away from what we're discussing. So, if we're discussing an ocean or ocean, yeah, what's the What's the polar opposite of an ocean? A clay. So, we're only take off one thing. Here's a interesting casher on the side. And all of them says in the shas, he says the other time of shmuel, you give them the middos of turning the dishes over. If you ever notice in the you give them the middos of turning the dishes over, why you can give them the middos of zoo? How come he doesn't mention ribui meal ribui? So, he brings the Tosafos in Eruvin Tosafos was that way. Okay. So, says the Gemara, "I could burn so we're just going to do the same thing pretty much, very similar." The baby tuna by mine by mine step on them. If you want to look at the possuk, we call it a cloud cloud. He calls it a ribuy ribuy. And the cloud product and the ribuy meut. By mine ribuy by am meut by mine because of ribuy. What we call a cloud product cloud, he calls it a ribuy meut ribuy. Ribuy meut ribuy I call. Ribuy ribuy I call. My ribuy. What is he adding? Haritzon is sura. He's saying that the ones the water that's most similar to an ocean, the worms that grow in them are also in my meut. And what do they What What are you allowed to eat? More stuff. By shigun by the Torah. A mine my ribuy by shigun by the sura. Who my meut kaleim? Same question that we had a second ago. Maybe it's the opposite that maybe you should not be able to eat the worms from a bar, but you should be able to eat the worms from a kley. That can't be. Okay, in this my hanalay since we have two limudim we have this possuk which is a ribuy meut ribuy, we could actually change it if we want. And we have this meut as a taichlus we have two meutem. They include two different types of waters. The cloud product cloud we know already. Comes to include a kley and the >> [clears throat] >> and the taichlus comes to include the barits. Ask the Gemara, "Baby Hana, say that haritzim are mutar and bar is assur?" No. Okay, we're talking about this year. We're talking about this year by Yuda by Reish by shigun by the Torah by the haritzon is sura. It makes more sense. By shigun by the Torah by the kley. Because what's the most similar to a kley? A bar. The water is not going anywhere. It's just a giant kley in the ground. The water is constantly moving in a It gets water from the How do you say in English? Ground water. It keeps them moving. >> [cough] [clears throat] >> All right. Hey, so you have these two and the mentions us just in passing that worms that grow in a clea are to eat. One is One is is more It's not as as as before. Which one? So We're going to have a Hey, so we have before. Think before. Here. Yes, like I was just I'm showing you the positive. Show me You see in purple? I say like That's That's yes, like You see over in the next positive it says ain't like This yes like and ain't like But the asked like what do you we figured out ourselves. If you have to have it you have to have a to to eat then certainly you have to then then if you don't have you can't eat. And if you don't have It's not because you can't eat. So if you do have you could eat. That was That was the other day. Hey, so we have before. They ain't like so some They want to explain how where. He won the first is the straight out of you could see that you're allowed to eat worms. They ain't like so some of the other positive is not as before. What's the shot? When you you learn from the first positive it's not before. That is the source. Positive Positive test. My time in the before is Why Why does he say that the second positive is the one? If you think about it the tire says that worms that grow in the or fish that grow in the in the ocean, you're allowed to eat. If they have stomachus kishkasus. What about if they grow in a klee? So we're learning if they grow in a klee, you're allowed to eat them even if they don't have stomachus kishkasus. Maybe the pshat is the exact opposite. Fish that have stomachus kishkasus grow in the ocean, you're allowed to eat. And if they grow in a klee, even with stomachus kishkasus, you're not allowed to eat. That that even makes more sense. You know, we're we're used to like not eating things. So anything that grew in an aquarium, you grew you you a salmon that grew that that that was How do you say grew? That that was >> raised >> raised, cultivated in an aquarium, maybe the Torah is saying you're not allowed to eat it. Only that in an ocean you're allowed to eat, but that in an aquarium not. >> fish farm >> fish farm You're telling me that the exact opposite. If it has stomachus kishkasus in the ocean, you're allowed to eat it. And if it grows up in a in a vessel in an aquarium, even with that as a stomachus kishkasus, if shrimp, you're allowed to eat it. If they say So that's why he says it makes more sense the second possuk. That I think hey But we're learning from the second possuk dimah hey If you're just going to learn from the first possuk, I'll say the opposite. That you're not allowed to eat even fish even a salmon in a kosher fish with stomachus kishkasus, you're not allowed to eat from a farm, from an aquarium. That's why I need the the second possuk is the more important one. Okay, that's it. We're done. Now we're going on to another sugah of very interesting stuff of worms. Omar Avuna Just want to point out that if you eat a small tiny worm somebody Jewish guy on the trip, he he took a berry off the side. He says, "Taste it." I said, "I can't taste it. Maybe maybe it has a worm." "Trust me, it's good stuff." So, I want to say that uh eating a small worm, people you know, strawberries What kind of beer do you say that oh you? So, you have to but that said, you have to scrub it twice and with the with the with the with soap dish soap the whole thing. It's not supposed to be strawberries. The humors of machmirim. If you eat a small worm, it could be a greater issue than eating a full plate of pork. The tiny little worm. Stop. Keep that in mind. It's not a joke. No. Depends. Depends on the what? It's a whole berry uh it's a it's it's a bigger problem than pork. So, says the Gemara, let's start. Let me show you the shichra. Do not pour beer, special date beer. They made beer out of dates. The night It seems as from the Gemara it's nice and thick because they wouldn't use regular sifters cuz it wouldn't even go through. So, what would they do? They would put a bunch of um toothpicks. >> [clears throat] >> So, wood chips but tziv'aosa wood borta at night. Why? Then we'll parsh l'eil mitziv'aosa v'ada nafla l'kasa. What is going on here? If there's worms that grow in the beer, drinking isn't k'shmach very appetizing. W- b- uh wormy beer. >> Protein beer. Very good. Protein beer. N- nice. B- b- b- better. But, if the worm comes out, that's the whole issue with the worms. If it grows in something and it stayed in that something and was detached from the ground, great. But, once it's sheres ha'aretz, it walks on the ground, the Gemara is going to say how much in the ground? What if it's in the ear? What if here? But if it walks on top of your wood chips for a moment and then plops itself back into the protein beer, then it tells you to eat it. Now, it's at night. You didn't notice if there's any worms or no worms. So, now you shouldn't do this at night. But if it's during the day and you don't see any worms, drink. You see them swimming around there? It's okay. They most likely were they grew up the and everything was in the beer. Well, it causes it fell into the cup. As the you have to know but even if it's in the in the beer cup, then what happens to the A lot of times worms like to walk their way up the the wall of the cup and then plop back down. The one of the one of the one So, you know that's not a problem. This is how they This is how they operate. If a worm goes up and then goes that back down, it's not a problem. That's how they grow. I'm going to tell you that's that's a good excuse and that's a good reason to be able to eat it. The we learned we just had it. You got to bend down and drink straight out of a pit. And now we see in New York and all these places you see I remember in Camp Morris there was a like a stream like a rock and water came out of the rock. You know, it's my cold water. Not a lot. So, we used to take our bottle, fill it up from there and bring it up. And one night, Friday night, I take a look at the bottle. I couldn't believe there's like 20 worms swimming in that water that I just caught off the rock. It's in there. If you don't have filtration, you don't have That's what you're going to be drinking. I'm not saying it's awesome. That's That's the whole discussion in New York. Few years ago in New York they had a massive issue. But I saw with my own eyes. I was the one that found it. like this bottle sitting on the table. Whoa, that is what? And you see this guy just going like this. He They live in the water. They swim. And they breathe water Well, that They're like fish. So, you're allowed to bend down into a bottle and drink knowing that there might be worms in there. You're allowed to eat everything that's in the water. She will say it's not noticeable. It's to the naked eye you can see it. But it goes down part of the But this this worm maybe went up the up the vessel wall out of the water. It's not in the water. It says in the Torah in the bottom of the in the water. But it when once it comes out of the water, it walked on the ground. Walked on the ground becomes also automatically. Well, then it fell back there in and then you drink it. And I would say that's normal for aquatic creature to come out of the water and then back into the water. How can I say so too by us we're not concerned about this beer worm coming out for a moment and going back in. The rabbis have to sit on these little flying insects like like little They They tiny mosquitoes or little fruit flies. You know, little to sit on that were filtered. You're not allowed to eat the filtered flies that come out on the top of the filter. Holy on, but if you didn't filter they're inside the drink, sure you're allowed to eat it. Oh. You have some gourd that as it was attached to the ground it became wormy. I'll hold it. Why? Because when it's mahuber, it says Shmuel, this famous Shmuel that we actually pass him like Shmuel. So, it gives us less of a heter, Shmuel. That what? If the worms were were introduced to the fruit while it was attached to the ground, attached to the tree, which is attached to the ground, that's considered a sheretz al ha'aretz, even though it's in the fruit, because the fruit is attached to the ground, so it's it's working around on the ground. Assur min shom sha. Shom sha. Assur min shom sha is a sheretz al ha'aretz. Lay min shalay lay. Maybe I have a right to Shmuel that what? When it's attached to the tree, then it's assur to eat that worm, even though it's inside. Huh? >> To the ground. >> Attached to the tree that's attached to the ground, it's only al ha'aretz. Lo haiti. Lo haiti means to give a heter. Es ha'zizin sheba'adoshim. You have little like uh mosquitoes, bugs in the lentils. Let's say you have tushim sheba'aklisim. This is more like uh chickpeas, hummus. Bitamar timurim. V'ishba'agrogrois. They were they were created inside that these worms were yeah, they they were born inside the dates and the figs. Bitanya, so those are mutar. All these little yitushim are mutar. Tanya though, kol ha'sheretz al ha'sheretz al ha'aretz, l'rabois, the rabois over here, lo haiti means to give a heter. L'rabois means to add to the issur. The rabois say lay should be k'zizin shebi'igrikfanum. The ones that they grow on the the roots of the the the the olives and the the grapes. My lav y'didi payru. Lo hayu d'tanya both of them are inside the fruit. V'ha'avi be'eiva shleima. The one is attached to the to to the tree. Attached to the tree is considered like the tree, like the ground, and then it's assur. And if it's not attached to the tree, then it's water. Why? You really be better. No, they're both attached to the tree. The one that's attached to the fruit, fruit are are immediately tallish. Fruit is something that you're about to take off the tree. So, it's not considered attached to the tree. Immediately you're allowed to. But, the tree itself is also but that cannot be talking about the the the root of the tree itself, not the fruit of the tree. The root. But, we don't cut skin like this we pass it like Schmuel. The what? That So, that's why people are market. You ask, how come people check dates and I don't know what apricots. I don't know what. They open it up. They they look. Why? Cuz you say you can say oh, what So, what? So, it's just a little worm. But, maybe the worm came while it was attached to the tree. While it was attached to the tree, Schmuel says it's also. You're right. If the worm was developed the worm developed when it was detached from the tree recently, in last few weeks, from the time it got off the was cut off the tree to the time it came to your table, then it wouldn't be such a problem. But, since there's a problem that maybe it developed while it was attached to the tree, so we have to be market. But, Rabbi Yisrael Parshas Masei Macho, what if Oh, so we have all these little guys here. Parshas Masei. It came out of the date and it died right away. It never had a chance to walk on the ground So, it's not But, it's on the earth. Miktzaso Macho It came out a little bit. Lav Olam Macho, it came out to the to the world. Is that considered Taiku? What What happens when you have a Taiku in this situation? Safek Deoraisa L'chumra. But, Rabbi Akiva Macho will climb to the top like this guy. L'gag Gary Nosa here it is he's climbing out of the pit to the top of the pit. But tomorrow tomorrow now here who is Mack? Maybe maybe that is considered maybe came out of his his house he came out of his date and he went to another one maybe that's also take all cookie on a Siri. These worms they find in the liver of an animal or in the in the lungs of an animal I see it also my time on my mom also they didn't grow they they didn't develop in the animal they came from the outside. So may I once upon a time crawling creatures on the ground and then they get into the animal that doesn't get make it up motor. If in fact it came from the world so what does that mean it came from the world? The animal ate a bunch of hay the hay had a bunch of worms. And went through his digestive system. So wait a minute when does digestive it should have came out the other way you should find it in the in his feces and whatever it's called how do you find it in the how did it get to the liver? Maybe some of them get to the liver but some of them should come out you don't see it over there. These worms they find in the liver you like to eat them at my time in the they grew they would develop inside the animal why do you also like a bullet to tell me say right how you don't see it on the other side this guy now you should know that is that these worms are also my time on may name night when the animal falls asleep by the label see they go into the nose and the nostril and they go through and somehow they get into different parts of the body. You open up an animal you find a bunch of worms in the meat I never heard of such thing but I guess it's what that have that in with the fish. And that that's also Shaila if they came in afterwards or they developed there. The cavity here fish sharyon or the even lemay. Ravina does his mother after le van oycho. Don't worry about it. Leave the worms inside the fish. Mix it in there. Make a shmucky gefilte fish and I'm going to eat them. What's pshat? So I heard pshat that he what? What? Take it out. What's the problem? No. So you can say oh simple pshat is he didn't want to be in his mother or whatever. But another gishmaka pshat is he wanted to show that the reason why he doesn't eat worms on a daily basis is not because he's a istanous and it grosses him out. He doesn't eat a worm because it's the risa. I'm going to show when it's mutar I eat. So then when it's ossur and I don't eat I get s'char. I for instance don't get any s'char for not eating you either. You don't get any s'char for not eating worms because you hate worms. You look at it this gross. No, I want s'char for for not eating the worm. Worms that grow in animal are ossur. How come the fish the mutar? Behema listen to this. Listen to this chapp. The problem with the worm is that it's a live worm. It's ever min achai. How can you eat a live worm? Let's say it's mutar but it's alive. It's ever min achai. Elamai the shchita of the animal is going to be mutar. But it's alive. This The animal's dead. This thing is alive. It's not uber yerachim. It's not part of the animal. But it comes to the fish you're right it's alive but there's no ever min achai because fish themselves you don't have to shacht. Interesting. You ask is it is it something to think about. >> The the the schita doesn't help them. So, therefore, they're still living in a hut. I will talk about Stephen Amistad. There's no living in a hut in a fish. You just grab gather and eat. It could be it's about the shark suit or something. But the van you could go goblin, but there you go goblin. And maybe the the the the worm on them is mortal. For example, the dolphin is a You know what I eat? A snake. Coil rubber is has used rule with other men as usual. There's a Something that's like a snake, a real snake, like a worm, a giant worm, a very long worm. It looks like a snake. Also, awesome. A liar buys a crop. Interesting. They talk about it. A crop actually has six What? He uses four mainly to to maneuver. Call it a rabbit as if he pushes. They managed that this what they call today. Well, I think it was the most popular car ever made, the Beetle. And there's I forgot how many tens of thousands of types of beetles. I forgot to look it up. It's Uh in the thousands. No, no, I'm talking about the buy what? So, the moral mar barrigline. In Hebrew, also it's called a mar barrigline. Zenodol, a centipede. Why is it called a centipede? Because centum peds it has a hundred hundred legs. Mar barrigline, zenodol. Add call. The rabbit is a doima of a doima of a doima. Okay. Very similar similar to similar. Tiny as even The mask is so the viasan. Dark turtle. The viasan is a kosher fish. Shinemar gabafiki moginim of the cheres cheres. Afiki moginim of the cheres and shiboy. These are the scales. Tachtov chabudicheres and the snap in ship ship This how he flies through the water. Oh, I can't say this. I can't say it. Had you not looked at the tray for us? HAD YOU NOT LOOKED AT THE TRAY FOR US? Had you not looked at the tray for us? 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