Classroom Success, Rebbe's answer: Don't leave the Lubavitcher yeshiva - Rabbi Chaim Dalfin

foreign [Music] series with Rabbi a yankel eckhaus a seasoned mochanic educator at Le babachi Yeshiva system for 58 years first at veteran Dean and then Crown Street in the Ocean Parkway then Crown Street and today at behind dolphin I happen to be a student of Rabbi echos in the early 70s and we're continuing here with different questions and ideas that we're hearing from from an expert Hashem Rebecca tell me about the discipline your your thoughts on discipline in the classroom okay the word you use is proper it's not punishment it's discipline uh without discipline School cannot work cannot function without discipline but the children have to also feel that the discipline is for them a child has to feel that where the the the the red being the teacher is not there as a as they stick against him not there to hurt him but only there that we can work together that we should produce what would that what the child is there for that is the understanding that the child should have um for doing that is I always believed in having a beginning of the year introduction we have like a little talk before we start class and um explain to the children why discipline is a necessity in a school and why they should understand that it's not only in the school but discipline is necessary even outside in the street for adults for people for for older people um everybody has to have a certain means of control of uh understanding that he can't do things which are going to be hurtful and harmful to the ex-person in the case of the classroom it's even more so because you are not letting the other child learn or study the grow in his in his uh aspirations or so so the child has to be first explain what the discipline is about now discipline should not be something it should be something which is a little bit harsh on the child to the point that he doesn't want to get into the trouble or do the thing that's wrong uh enough to to do that but he he shouldn't feel that you know the rebbe is taking it out on him uh the ones a person once said that when Arabi in the olden days when they had capital punishment so ready would slap a child or use the ruler test then hit his knuckles or so whatever it was uh so at times it was the feeling was that the that the rebbe was just letting off steam or so and taking it out on the kid that's no good that is not a good thing uh before you give a punch sometimes it happens that you want you're very upset with the boy he's acting up and he's really irritating you and he's really uh ruining the class atmosphere calm down for a minute before you issue any punishment don't guess you would immediately because you're doing it out of anger that's no good it has to be where you're doing it with seho and not necessarily you always have to give the punishment right away you can just tell the boy then be quiet or so and you will deal with him later on call him over later on and you know tell them whatever you know explain to what he was doing in the class what's wrong and the boy will feel you know uh I did wrong but I don't think the punishment is also it doesn't fit the crime I I I didn't I wasn't that bad right he asked the child to Opera what what punishment he thinks should be suitable for the the so you should negotiate negotiate yeah let him feel okay we understand that you were you were motioning to this boy middle of class you disturbed him from learning and serve the other boy from learning also now you did something wrong what is going to be uh possible or good that you can not repeat that again that you what what do you think that we should use you understand that it's wrong I mean if he doesn't understand that it's wrong sometimes you got to give the kid the benefit of that I mean if it's a minor thing if it's something it's the German class obviously you're not going to let him be the judge overhead to decide what's what you know what he's doing to the class but if it's something that he realizes that he is doing wrong and it needs self-control what do you think that you can do in order to get that self-control upon yourself is it detention is it writing is it can money is it depriving you of something or something like that let him be the one to decide take him in as a partner and that I think works very well some in most cases it works very well it's worked for you yeah I mean I I always told the kids like you said you know if they uh if you don't like the writing gun we said you know put down the money for it or so whatever whatever you want you know you want to say for the attention is that whatever's going to work that you think is going to work fine uh I am a little bit stricken class as far as eating in class I don't think that the kids should eat in class eating is not a it's not something that's going to allow the kid to concentrate and is learning he's going to mean more into his what the taste of is not that he's gnashing away at then then he is in the gemara so you have to put down certain things and explain it to them explain why why it is that the kids have to be explained and if you are they kids see that you're sincere you're really trying to get the kids to learn and you're really there for the benefit and the kids will will really cooperate with you generally right I'm not saying there's uh there's sometimes I had a kid that was he couldn't control himself I mean there was no control he had no control over himself but it was very rare I think over my whole teaching career I had one boy that had to that I had to send out wow one boy that I could not control he was not in control I think so I think I only had one boy that's amazing I can't I can't handle him he's not I had a class of 33 boys and 35 boys at that time in the Ocean Parkway and he was just disturbing without I mean whatever class again it wasn't working right since you mentioned the 30 35 boys just briefly what's your opinion about having such large classes well they couldn't make double he didn't have the ability to make a double class before for whatever reason I was Financial reason basically uh the Army Tenenbaum was in a demons bind over there so I had to absorb my kids were coming in they're coming back some kids went out to California then it wasn't working they came back and so they begged him for a favor to put him into the Yeshiva the campfire but in general you believe in 25 is is enough I think it's brought down medium is as I think it's brought down somewhere that 25 is the limit I think about my Sheba also said I think 25 is the limit that should have necklace I mean you can't you can't you you have to work every kid you have to have no what every kid is you know what he is accomplishing so uh do you believe today there are yeshivas that that specialize in in in in classes that don't have more than 10 kids I mean wonderful are you all for that why not why not no I'm standing boy the more attention the kid can get why shouldn't we and it won't lack in the social skills that children pick up in yeshivas larger yeshivas and girls schools basicism what's the skills the only they can play more ball together I mean they can be bigger teams the attention is the is the most important thing that I mean if I have a smaller class I haven't I have a better chance to relate to each child individually some kids need more help than others right right and I I try to give it to them I mean I try to give it again if if I have a class a bigger class I can't give that to every kid the attention that he may need at that time I try as I said you always have to make it in a way that uh it should be for everyone but you're gonna you can't give the intentions more let me ask you um what about this issue of the relationship between the the rebbe the teacher Mohammed the the girls rebbe teacher to the student the the the closeness the distance you know the give and take the affection what should be that type of relationship between action is I don't know if that's a proper word for it to me affection is a is a physical word uh what you have to show children is and what you have to have for children is concerned that you have to be concerned for the child you have to really want the child to grow yeah I always look for you know what did the kid do over the year what did he accomplish that how much did he accomplish and did I do as much as I could accomplish with him as I said just before you know a bigger class is going to be harder you can't accomplish with the every child of course the small little class the better it is however though um uh the the connection is this child should see that you'll do it there for him you like the child you have no uh music misfe feelings towards a child you shouldn't think that you're picking on him that's very important every child should be equal everybody child should be given you know uh that you don't sometimes it happens that you like this child because he's you know he's a smarter Russell that shouldn't be a child should that should not be visible to the children every child on the contrary maybe a kid that's weaker then you you get more when you see that he's growing you know and yeah so so you show that child that you're very proud of him he's working hard as always the word is concerned concerned be concerned with the students show that you are the voted I mean I had kids like uh that I after class I finished uh 2 45 I was knocked out I had dominating in the morning and then 2 45 I was finished and but there was a kid that he needed help so I stayed on afterwards you know after 2 45 to learn with him a little bit and at the end he comes over to me in the street when he sees me he's already a grandfather the most probably by now and he remembers that I spent time with him after class you know and I have boys that um they took away time for my recess or so they wanted to do the murder in The Taste was they wanted to understand it I showed them how I loved the fact that he you know I I I I was deprived from my lunch time my rest time but still and all you know you showed the child that you're right and I felt that I was happy that the child wanted so that's where your relationship should be and trying to show the child that you're really there for him something that came to me now that's I think important again briefly bullying has become a very big issue what's your what's your what's your thoughts about that I uh to be honest with you I don't know too much about it I always I mean if I knew that a child was harming hurting another child I would try to stop him but generally I did not really mix into much of that did you see it did you see it I didn't see it because I was mainly um no I was I was mainly uh focused in my classroom in the classroom there was no bullying right exactly the only bullying that took place was in the Halls right and I didn't know if that in a case where I know I I remember one kid I still remember what it was and he was pulling another boy and I saw it and I walked out with her I said ammonia if I see that you're going to have a lot of problems I want I don't want to see that I mean but again I was not you know uh um I didn't I don't think I really dealt with it properly because I was not involved in this you know right my job was teaching the class and it's a very strong thing and kids there's kids that became namish the hurt and harmed because of bullying in this class and now I realize I look back I've seen that kids were it's a terrible thing it's a terrible thing kids should not be I maybe was bullied when I was a kid too but I didn't you know wasn't going to complain though so you know like but Time Has Changed yeah it was not something that there was an issue in those days you know now I want to finish this segment of the second uh session of um with you about the answer that the river gave you which I think is so important for all the barbecers not even labavagers but especially Chabad next to hear the actual words and the translation and and maybe a few words of explanation this is when there was a time in your life for whatever reason uh you wanted to transfer from one uh institution to mice it to another labab institution within the teaching World it wasn't that you wanted to go out to work um we're not discussing that you know or go to business it was about teaching and the rabbit gave you a very powerful answer would you please share that with us okay it was a time that I wanted to move from Babaji Shiva to the other Maison and uh yeah and in a teaching capacity yeah obviously in the teaching capacity and I felt that I would maybe enjoy it working over there more so for other different reasons as I said I always enjoy teaching no matter where I taught um and I wanted to felt that I would feel much more comfortable there much more of um it was like the satisfied more happy and we were working there and the red bands in me and an amazing answer and the words were haloi who ninsa belay made where will you find another one please translate the first everything in English you are learning uh you're teaching you are found I mean you find yourself and you're learning I don't know use the word learning and where we find another mice and like it now to me it seems that the river I mean even though I pointed out the reasons why I wanted to move to the other Maison and uh I may have felt maybe justified in my known eyes or else I would have not uh ask such a question but uh it seems from the red but that even if you feel a mycin is not functioning the way you like it the rebel wants you not to run from them I said but stay there and do the work that has to be done that was my understanding of the rubber you don't run from a mice to myself to help yes to make yourself comfortable to make yourself happy you stay in the mice and build and work there to improve it the best you can or at least do the job that you have to do if you can't improve it because you're not qualified to improve the mindset you're a teacher you're a Webby that's all you are there's other things going on which is above you and you're not qualified to mix in yeah but do your job and try to do as best you can in that much so don't run because you're just going to break that mice and didn't want mices to be broken I want to build build so to me so what's interesting to me in addition to the answer is that the fact is that you were going to another Chabad moist you were going to another right so do you think the rebber was kind of saying that this is the other one isn't or no no I don't think so no so you take the answer is in other words don't break a moisten words right enhance the moisture if there's an issue make it better that's right was always fix build don't don't run away all those last words say them again the last part about a foreign there's nothing to to complain about you're now you're in uh and uh in a good place but I think that's what uh to me that's what the Reverend the red was never for running away from from okay we're going to uh finish here the second segment and thank everyone for listening and we will continue very soon thank you [Music] thank you