Ep. 12: Is the Old Way of Chinuch Working? with Rabbi Yossi Korik

[Music] is the foundation of Yudishkite and it's a it's a it's a from the of the obligations of parents and teachers to raise the kids to be proper. So to say that the ord doesn't give us all the resources that we need and everything you know 100% to be and to be able to fulfill the in the most optimal way I think it's so it's we have to be able to be loyal to these ideas and and the more that we connect with that that we remain loyal even when sometimes it seems that it's difficult or it's you know oh doesn't seem like it's mainstream it's the it's not the the new way. I feel that the more we say remain loyal, the more the more we see, the more we see. I'm Yasi Cayman. Welcome to among an ongoing faban about life as aid, our vibrant connection with the Reb and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. How are you? >> How are you? Doing good and um it's good to I see you have the whole library in back of you our days and the Rebel will find a way. These are the important that you have. >> Big fan. Big fan. The hair is a very big priority in our life. >> Okay. Very good. It's u mine too. So we have something we have that's another thing in common. I don't know if the same level but uh but you you're probably more than me. >> I don't know be left to be seen. >> Okay. Um you have something that um I understand is unique in your and maybe we'll start off with that. I believe that uh besides or besides or an addition or I I don't know exactly where it's holding but um besides a typical you're also at the forefront of educational institution. Is that is that right? >> Yes that's correct. >> Okay. So, uh, not every person that we talk to, I mean, you're not the first on, uh, on the podcast, but, uh, not every person has that, you know, I think every is a mechan. and uh especially if you have physical children so it's at the forefront of everybody's mind but if you're if you have your involved in it I'm sure you have a lot uh more you think about a lot more in a more strategical way than others >> I I would hope so that's the definitely the idea and um you know the background of that is when we moved out in now almost 20 years ago hashem So we came. It's a typical small town Kabat House community in the suburb of Sacramento. No plans for any moist anything of that sort. We started with what typically small kabad house to start with. Little Hebrew school at fillin club here and there. tried to make a Shabas minion, Shabas meals, Yamim, you know, regular women's circles, regular things. And you know Barashem we had our own children and started to have more children and they're growing up and we we really wanted something proper for them for so the the options that were available at the time we didn't we weren't fully satisfied not because necessarily the option is not a good option but we wanted more for our kids and But there was a few other young families that were in the area as well at the same time. So I took it upon myself. I started to teach my own kids and other heard about it. So they decided, you know, if you're already teaching also, maybe you can have my kids join in. So like without planning, without uh being something that we prepared for or or set out to do, before we knew it, we we had a I had a small class about four or five boys and we were learning. They're young kindergarteners. Then there was another class that came in. My wife taught and I taught and with a little bit of time we started to bring out girls to help to teach. and Barashem from there it evolved into a full-fledged that really at the core of it was originally for Schlim's kids but eventually it developed into beyond that we we started to have some community families join at first it was some room families Balichova that living in the Sacramento community with a more established kabar house over there and the rabbi rabbi and rabbit men well known own very special. So under their their community they have some now so they started to join in as well and since then as well we were able to have a certain degree of still minimal and it's something that we we hope to be able to expand and to grow having local community kids join in and it's something that personally I feel very passionate about because if we really look back at the in the early years and you know I mean the the the theme never really leaves the and is front and center and everything that always spoke about and and encouraged and pushed for and was heavily involved in um but especially in the early years you see like there's a lot of talk about the concept of taking just regular kids and bringing them to you and we know that the early the first Reb sent out really that was primarily their focus is there was the these schools these days schools that were started in in different communities in the United States and then also abroad the Morocco and other other places where they went out. It was really a big focus or even if you could say the primary element of it was was schools was teaching kids and and the idea was to take regular kids non kids and bring them into it wasn't about making schools for loav kids obviously that's no less of a priority but that wasn't so much necessarily where the reb was addressing when he was sending theim and the focus and I think that there there certainly a significant that that were involved in that and it seems that for whatever reason over the over the decades that approach or that concept maybe has died down a little um and and I don't know the philosophical backgrounds to all of that but I think that part of it is that lobavich itself started to grow and and and that in itself became already a focus of its own to have Philavich. So a lot of the communities that originally were just far-flung communities became centers for Philavich communities and and many of those schools became an schools which is appropriate and and what should be and it's it's hard to really balance between you know having a full-fledged Anach school and then bringing in non-froom kids into that environment. It doesn't it doesn't necessarily work out so well. And I feel that in our situation where it's like you know uh what's the what's the lion zoo right something like that where where the fact that we're in a small community and because we don't have a big full-fledged dash community. So that gives us in a certain way an advantage that even though we're we're we designed our school and we're catering it to a a level that's appropriate for kids for an kids you know it's not watered down the the the kids who are going through the the mo here they're graduating eighth grade and ready to go into misa or into high school you know the boys the girls and and they have the all the skills and and the background that they need to be able to be Matlak as far as their learning capabilities. But because we're a small environment, it's easier and it's it's more like realistic to be able to adapt to be able to have a kid that that has no background whatsoever to somehow give him the support and the ability to to mainstream. So you're so I think you're saying that historically I mean this started by the and you're saying continued in the CSO so like Morocco and the the early was >> I mean the the best way to do is to children and make sure that every Jewish kid I mean how many times the speak about that there's thousands of kids in New York the says that they're not getting this is said all the years and you're saying whatever reason you're saying just technically some of the you know the and some of these older institutions turned into hash schools because you know the communities change or maybe because of the of the you know and things like that. He's saying in essence this is an integral part of the work of of of the of is the best way to do that is with a school. That's what you're saying >> 100%. I mean, think think about it for a second. We know that the Reb spent time with kids in in in a disproportionate manner compared to any otherb before any >> right. But even the the times the spent with kids, the children's rallies, the Lak parades, who who were the kids that were there? Of course, they were an Nash kids, but there was a big push and there was a big, you know, effort to bring in the the release time kids and these NF from kids and the Reb spoke to them the same way he spoke to everybody else. the the expectation that it seems to me at least, you know, this is totally my I'm not that that's the way it has to be or this way it is, but it seems to me that the Reb's expectation is that somehow we could take a regular Jewish kid off the street and and obviously it has to be properly thought through and and organized in a way that that it makes sense, but be able to bring that kid and give him a full-fledged A Hebrew school is a beautiful thing. Don't get me wrong. It's it's an amazing thing. I think every that that's in a community should have a Hebrew school and and has to be able to do everything possible to be able to bring a kid into Hebrew school. But let's be honest, how much can a Hebrew school affect? You're going to maybe teach them how to read, teach him a few, which is beautiful. It's amazing. I'm not not knocking it. But if you could take a kid that same kid and teach him and and and like you know give him full-fledged it's it's uncomparable. I think I think we see this across the board. for example, camp right that was established by the rebuffs and the yuds whatever thes when when it when it started >> um started the camp >> the when it started in the beginning >> I think a huge percentage of the kids were for sure not lavish but not even necessarily from from homes >> and uh and that that was that that was a that they got and I think like you're saying just just just it happens organically that it turned into an an I think like you're saying the like parades uh were full of uh people that uh full of kids that uh might have gone to public school whether it's through release time or some other thing. Yeah. So and fact that things shift. >> I mean I I don't know I don't know the numbers. you know this information better than me because you know this is something that the hair has written about but the with 10,000 kids what's what's like an appropriate number for Lagma parade >> I don't know but it sounds right >> how many lobavich kids were in heights at that time >> sure it was probably a minority at those rallies maybe a thousand I don't know and so who were these other kids they they they were probably other from kids but a lot of big percentage were not from And I think also part of it was um that uh at that point at least in New York, Labavich was taking kids also without tuition. I think that's a that that's a part of that was part of the draw. I don't know how that works today. I don't know if that works today or how that works today, but that that was I I know a few quite a few stories and quite a few people that uh that's how they became because they uh because their their parents got either cheaper or free tuition to to camp or to to to Bedford and or whatever it was and even if not even if it's not someone that became a full-fledged but had had that that that you know in 100% Very interesting. So this is uh so so at this point this is your >> it's it's it's one of the we still have a full-fledged house community with you know all the programs in and men's groups and women's groups and shabasim and Hebrew school as well uh camp you know where you have in a regular community um you know the fiat a small community today have to be careful how you use that term because has expanded. When when I moved out almost 20 years ago, what was considered a small community today is like, >> right? >> Um but uh >> and 20 years before it was it was the same, you know, >> right? Um no, I don't know. I don't know if 20 years before was the same because really, you know, from Gimlamos things exploded and and you know, there wasn't there wasn't necessarily such a big >> difference. Among is brought to you by we live in a chaotic world. A world where for us is a we do not have the ability to hear and see the on a daily basis. Yet we know that the is very much with us and is alive and thriving more than ever before. one needs to only tap into it. Provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into all of this. Whether it's the monthly magazine, the way it all began, whether it's their hair books, their hair online content, and so much more, men, women, and children throughout the world benefit and use these tools on a daily basis. 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Like I said before, it wasn't something we we set out to do. It wasn't something we planned for. Um but it's definitely become front and center of the and you know we've we've been very fortunate and that we have now three young that live in the area one lives mamish in our community him and his wife and they're completely devoted to the to the um they both teach full-time And we have two other families as well that that teach in the school who have other nearby small you know small but but uh they they spend a very big majority of the time teaching. So my role right now in the school is more in the administrative aspect. I'm the principal and administrator taking care of the hala aspect of the school. I'm not as involved in the teaching itself. Um and it's it's it's a tremendous it's a tremendous and and I see personally in our in our in the community in our personal life in every aspect that the and the and the the everything that comes in the it's unbelievable. >> So let me ask you a question. >> That is definitely something that wants. >> Okay. So let me ask you a question. What are the um is there like a unique you could say challenge or maybe something that needs to be focused on today in you know more today than before? >> You mean >> in general? Yeah. What what's is there like something specific that you're that you you've realized over over the years of being involved in in >> Mhm. Um I don't see myself as a professional expert mechanic in that in that sense. Um but I I do I do find and I'm I'm sharing this you know from my own personal experience um with with the small that we have and and you know my own interactions personal interactions in I I do feel very strongly that staying honest and and and and connected to the iss this of of what has been the or is the best route. It's the best approach. That's the foolproof. We know this works and and the the toys of that I think are are the the the the healthiest, the the best and the most direct. And obviously it's a it's a big challenge to be able to raise kids and you need a tremendous amount of and this very fine and and beautiful and people that not not always and people that not necessarily and are so you know it's not to point to say in any way you know this is the way to do it. You do it do like this and it's going to come out like that. you know, it's not it's not a recipe book that you you know, you bake your cake and these amount of degrees of these ingredients and you know that that's how it's going to come out. But but I do feel that the more that we remain honest and connected and and loyal I think that's the word to to to the of the way it's been the better chances and and the more we'll have um you know can move on there's there's changes in in reality and different things and things have to be understood and and discussed to be able to see how it's applied in, you know, the current environment and so on. But, uh, a lot of these new modern fads and new ideas and new concepts, I personally don't don't connect with them that much. And and I don't see that, you know, it's trial and error and we don't know where that's going to go. And we have a mid is the foundation of Yiddish and it's a it's a it's a from the of the obligations of parents and teachers to raise the kids to be proper. So to say that the ordish doesn't give us all the resources that we need and everything you know 100% to be and to be able to fulfill the in the most optimal way I think it's so it's we have to be able to be loyal to these ideas and and the more that we connect with that that we remain loyal even when sometimes it seems that it's difficult or it's you know oh doesn't seem like it's mainstream it's the it's not the new way I feel that the more we say remain loyal the more the more we see the more we see >> what's an example of this say what specific example I mean I think there's there's you know many many things in in in the you know the context of you know I'll take an example that's maybe not as uh um extreme if we want to say I mean it could be other people may see it as extreme in different ways. But this is something that spoke about himself and and um we have the aspect of of how what priorities do we set in the as far as and you know things things in that way. So I'm not, you know, getting into the specifics to which subjects and whatever. There's, you know, I think there's there's a bit of of a opportunity for every community, every situation to be able, you know, like uh define themselves and understand. But I think that the more that we take the Reb's words seriously and and you know the more we see that and a lot of people even among we have concerns but what about what about a what about you know what's going to be with the future and this all really boils down back to the idea of that we believe that we understand that everything that we have comes from the and when we follow the way that's That's the best you know that this is the best way the is is said it's they gave us the best way to live. So if if we if we remain loyal to to how the rebba wants that we should focus and emphasize the of our kids then that's that's the best option and then this is not something necessarily that that starts only later on when the kids are already finishing high school and there's talk about yes college no college this kind of thing or not even from from the asitas from the younger ages where do we put the emphasis where where's our focus and and and um our priorities in and what we want our our kids to learn. And I I use these ideas even in conversations that I have with non-families that I'm trying to encourage them to come to the to the school. Um we we do have English and math in the school so that you know the as as a core subjects and we don't teach other subjects in the school specifically. And I explain to the families the value of what you're getting out of the, you know, as a side sales pitch, I'll tell them, you know, science and ma and and history or social studies, other things you could supplement on your own. You don't necessarily need us. But for Yiddish, you can supplement on your own. And uh if if Yiddish's important to you, you know, this is an opportunity. If you're going to go to public school, you're going to have lots of other problems that you're going to have to deal with. And today we see that this is becoming a shift in the minds of people and society and people are open to listen to this idea. But I explain to people is not about just teaching subjects. It's not about amassing knowledge. knowledge you can learn anytime is about the amuno and I recently came across a I don't remember the exact source so forgive me that I'm not giving you the exact source but recently I came across ab says there that all it used to be that the schools was primarily to teach information you had to know you had to know how to learn and know what to learn and information and you would learn at home. That's how it was a mo says today it's not necessarily reliable or it's not always available to learn at home. So therefore it became now the responsibility of the to and theb says not only as a side thing also but that becomes the that's the of the to and the information you know when I don't talking about I'm talking about the the information of if you don't get to as much as you wanted to it's okay because you can always make it up later on but the it's not always easy to to get back if you didn't get it as a child. If you didn't have it, the right there from the beginning. is connected to the famous idea that says so the says basically the is and today the responsibility is to teach to teach and and and if we respect that if we recognize that even for ourselves not just how we talk to a non-firm family potentially is is going to come join but even for our own selves what are the what are our values sometimes you you hear from parents, you know, even things like, oh, how many are the kid going to learn this year? And and I is it in what level is it? I'm not undermining the importance of pushing children and encouraging them to to be and to learn more. And there's many kids who are very they're very capable. they could they could and they need to be pushed because if they're not that's sides a waste and side they also start to get bored and they get involved in other things. So it's important but that's not the priority. How do we measure the success of of a of of aim is not based on how many blat they covered and if they know more of it bal or less of it that's all very important but I think the most fundamental of of to see have they been instilled real values of in the kids and and you know is is is expressed in every aspect in in and how they they have and hugs between each each other, the the the the how they have you know the respect for how they learn to all of these things is is aspects of and of courseim his is part of it's a certain you instill the values of iskash in the children that's that's the most tangible because it's something that you know is much more relatable to us and I I hope I'm not uh you know saying things here that sound borderline I don't But I think that our our consciousness to the reb is is is is a representation of our connection to the >> um this um this theme that you mentioned that says that is not just about what you learn, it's about the environment. I don't know which you're referring to but this is a theme that I've seen across there as many letters in theb to this effect and um I mean it's 100% and that's why there has to be room in every for all types of kids even academically right even if a if a child is you talk about the what about if a child is not a mitsuyan but he needs that sedition environment and I I imagine Imagine the same theme applies later on as well. You know yeshiva for sure when you're when you're older baker older girl you're being that's when you're molded. Um I think with the little kids people are are more alike. When they get older they start developing into their own character. I mean, it's something that uh there may be someone that doesn't excel academically, but they're benefiting tremendously from the from the from the from the atmosphere of of the that they're in. And that's as important or more important because that's who they are. That that's what shapes who they are, right? 100%. 100%. and and I and I think that you know a lot of the a lot of these things that you're you're talking about in in the world of the misas and in the high schools and that's definitely not an area that I'm personally involved in my own children barashm but not in in managing a mo and it's in its own it has its own set of challenges and things so it's definitely not my place to comment on that but I do believe that a lot of the symptoms if you want to say of the challenges and situations that can develop and become come manifest in a more greater and and bigger way like you described when it comes to going into the mass and in the high schools is really values and things that start in the school and in the younger in the younger age. I'll give you another example that you asked me before for an example. You have the concept of mashmas and cababalas. Today there's a notion in the modern world that you have to talk to your children. You have to listen to their opinion and you you don't you know come from the top down. Everything has MS everything has value and everything has truth. So you know I'm not negating the idea know which is not a boot camp and it's not the idea of of uh uh you know do as I say or else but the value the concept of mashmas that a child needs to know that yeah you have an opinion and yes you have desires and you have things you want to do you do want to do it you don't want to do it but that's secondary the first is and we do what says And that's something, you know, that that a child needs to know and it needs to be ingrained in in their consciousness from from the ground up, you know, from the young age up. Take if you have, for example, I'm just giving this as as a theoretical example because they're not involves. I don't know for sure. But if you have a that maybe he's not a learner and it's hard you know but he want he's he has and he wants to be in a proper and he wants to be in the fine but but if he has the the the the so maybe he doesn't learn so much but he comes to the and he participates and he sits by Davening I don't think there's going to be any mis that's going to kick out like that even if he's not learning if he's not passing the test maybe sits and talks the whole say that I don't think and could be I'm wrong but I don't think any is going to kick out a guy like that but if a guy sland and he's disrupting and he's not showing up I'm not here to defend the moisters or not in one way or another and it's not I'm not involved in that degree but I can only imagine that that creates more of a challenge so if if the child from the youth is ingrained in this value you know that's a That's that's the way it should be. We I once had an incident with one of our Tamilid in the school. So So there was I was walking down the hallway and I saw Tammed was standing outside the class. So I said to him, "Why aren't you in class?" And he said, "Because uh I I don't I don't want to learn. I don't want to I don't want to learn what they're learning in class." So what are they learning learning math? He said, "I don't want to learn math." Okay. So what do you want to do? He said, I don't want to do I don't want to do something else. I don't want to do anything. I don't want to go in. I don't want to learn. I said to him, you don't want to learn it. So he said, no. He said, wow, that's really really amazing. He said, what do you mean it's amazing? He looks at me, what do you mean? I said, I think you have an amazing opportunity. He said, what opportunity do I have? I said, you have an opportunity now to go and learn something you don't want to learn just because that's what the sader is right now. That's what wants you to do right now. the wants you to go and learn this math. So if you want to learn it, that's great. That's beautiful. Then you're learning it because you want to. Maybe you're also doing it because that's what you're supposed to, but you want to. But you know how happy the aisha becomes when you do something that you're supposed to do when you don't want to do it. He's much happier then than if you do it because you want to do it. So because you don't want to do it, now you have a huge opportunity. If you go into class now and sit down and do your math work, the aish is going to be smiling like you've never seen before. He looked at me. Really? I said absolutely. He ran into class. He went and learned. I think that if a kid goes out of with such a value, I don't care how much he learned. I don't know how much I think if if if such a concept is successfully ingrained in the mind of the heart of a child I think it's the most successful he can have these values this this these are the things that are going to help this person when he's a when he's a younger man in his own when he's a a businessman whatever he is these are the values that the world doesn't have today the concept that a person is is given over committed to doing something because that's what you're supposed to do. This is who you are. These are the values and and if you look a lot of the Rebba's responses and and things even when people responds to people dilemmas and challenges often times it's it's kind of this idea the Reb shifts the perspective the person is saying you know I don't like it it's I'm in pain it hurts I'm upset I'm this and the Reb instead of like dealing with the actual emotion that the person's having it just shifts the view and and and essentially takes him out of himself and brings him into recognizing the the opportunity the he has and then say, you know, you're like in a different place now. You can't get that in the world. The world doesn't have that. It doesn't exist. >> Just just the opposite. I think the world today >> the world pushes you down. >> Tell tells you how you're feeling and therefore don't do what you don't want to do and don't do something that makes you uncomfortable and uh and um raises the generation or generations that way. in love daf. Are the results so pretty? >> 100%. I think you're saying it very politely, but I would say dava love. No, it's actually an interesting concept because um you you hear the way people talk about you how to deal with hardships and to me it was always what what people are um talking about doesn't seem in line with I guess values are very hard to you know which which uh page and which are you referring to. I'll tell you the t values that I learned from the rebba it seems if you read the if you read like you said if you read the igris the rebba very much is pushing people you know towards what's good for them as opposed to what they perceive to make them feel good in the moment and you know flipping the conversation and I think if it comes from a harsh way and you tell someone you're no good and therefore do that's really affected but the reb I think brings out how they have the ability to rise to the occasion. I think that that that's uh I mean the letters that is usually talking to adults, right? That are that >> are you even have letters to kids? >> Yeah, we just in in the for kids magazine we've been featuring uh letters to a letter to children >> every single every single month. Yeah. In the upcoming once a kid wrote to the Reb, "Is it true that the Reb speaks all languages?" And the Reb says, "No, unfortunately I do not do not speak all all languages." Um, it's very interesting the the story that you said before that you told the child. It's a story of I think that he said >> oh that he said >> yeah said he doesn't have learned what should I do that I do have >> you know you have an advantage >> this this idea is not this I mean everything is the of yish guides I think to me personally What I feel one of the of of the Reb's approach is the whole of bring about it, right? The whole the whole point is it has to become real to be an to be that's you know it's good for the whole point of it has to be if it's not if the if the if the physical of the world doesn't understand doesn't relate doesn't connect with the idea of the love of whatever it may be and the and the high then it's not. So I think one of the things that we see in in the Reb's approach is the the there's a certain there's a certain simplicity. Of course it's not simple. The Reb is sharing very profound and and deep deep concepts but the manner and the method how the Reb conveys it is through such simplicity that that when you hear it when you see it it makes you look it makes you think like how did I not how did I not notice that on my own but obviously you know it's not something we would notice but then just changes the angle and it's like suddenly now in this perspective the whole reality is different. So, so let's talk give an example. The Reb is everything is MS. There's no there's no bluffing. There's no everything is 100%. >> So the Reb looks at a person sees him how he is in you know what's the person? The person is an is who he is at the core. Everything else is secondary. It's added. It's things that positive, not positive, whatever things that's that stick on. So when the Reb gives somebody guidance, the Reb responds to somebody and their challenge and their difficulty, whatever it may be. So essentially what the is doing to the person is he's saying you're looking at yourself, you're looking at your sit situation on a very external reality of who you really are. Let me bring you back to your mock. And when you identify yourself in that way, your problem is non-existent. You you've you've shed the whole problem. It's like it's not you have a problem they have to deal with you. The whole thing is is there was an there was a mine I think I believe you posted it in in in the WhatsApp a few months ago this a while back but and you may remember I don't remember the details the exact thing but there was somebody wrote to the Reb something that he needs to be able to be Miss Gab on the Reb said Miss Gab you know just something like just just do what you're supposed to do you remember we're referring to No, >> it was a I don't have it on my hand, but the point was that the the the person was looking at is that I have a challenge and I have to beg on my challenge. Look, look at look what's the approach. You have and you have to fight it. Don't do this. We have all these things all true things. We we have to do all these things. But what's the approach? There's a there's a there's a negativity and you have to be misgab. You have to have the suddenly says take a different approach. It's not about being misg you. in your nature, your true natural self doesn't do these things. You have nothing to overcome. You just have to tune back in to your natural self. Obviously, how do we do that? You need a lot of this and you know, we have to do we have to we have to connect to the truth. But that's that's the idea in every aspect. So, a lot of these concepts that maybe were foreign, you take aid and you give them to do a mitzvah. the whole concept of you go take aid off the street to put in it's not just that in in we say oh there's other sects of Yiddish of of the of the Jewish community they they don't understand they don't buy into this idea how do you take it even think of the or the would understand what that meant I mean to some it's a foreign concept even when the reb introduced these concepts many of the alter also were struggling with The idea wasn't necessarily you know that but the showing us that the real Mits is of this guy in the street who is he is today we've we've in many ways become accustomed to see people that way we see a right away we look at the the bring a guy in come I know recently I saw you know the story from Jem or whatever these you take a guy out of off the street and they and and then they they bring him into to Labavage within a month he's having tob for his birthday like he like he's he's been a yeshiva like a guy if he's eating kosher there's no the is like this is that's it it's the I don't know if this is uh true what I'm saying but I noticed today we have also outside of people being massic in bring people closer to yushkite kir etc I don't know if this is a true thing but And notice that sometimes when the people that are doing this talk, they use like a like like this x amount of balva and like you know we we have a shabatone and we tell them this and we tell them that in order to to hook them in and you know x amount to get g get involved. It's like a whole statistical game with with the with the tactics and uh you know turnover turnover rates and I think that's a fundamental I mean it's a nice thing but I think it's a fundamental difference in approach like you're saying that the way the and the way is done way is that we're not here to figure out a way in order to get you to there. We're here to be mal. So it's going to be a mitzvah. It's going to be a it's going to be you know I think it's there's practical implications in the way we look at a person the way we deal with people because of this. >> I think that many of the if they knew for sure that a certain individual is not to become it's not a candidate. There's no point. What's the point to bring him in to learn in the yeshiva or to to come to the Shabbaton if if somehow there's a guarantee he's this guy is never becoming. Forget about it. It's not happening. Okay. So next he's not a candidate >> right for the way taught us. I mean, of course, we want to be every year to every part of that's not belittling the importance of of making 100%. hidden. We want every to be learning, you know, everything that's, you know, but if if all he's going to do one time is a mitzvah film, is that that's the that's the says this is what said in you know this the there's that famous putting I don't know one of the early years, you know, the Reb is like it's like I don't know exact the words But the mitzvah is you know it stays forever one mitzvah that's but until who understood what said in that it meant the po to go shle a guy off the street and put on >> yeah um it's interesting that uh so I I think so back to the for a minute. There are um and I'm not here I don't view these conversations as uh figuring out uh problems that need to be fixed. You know, we're talking to together. Um I I I think that sometimes that you're saying that the the the proven way of is the best way. Obviously, not everyone that was a mechanic 50 years ago was was doing it right. Right. So, I think there's certain things you could learn. Um, one thing that I one thing I feel personally might have been lacking, I mean, I'm not so old, but at this point, it's a few years ago since I've been in or school. One of the things I might have been lacking that I think has changed is that there are certain people that are that haven't really thought about, you know, the, you know, they're trying to run a system, they're trying to run a school, they're trying to run a classroom. I mean, I myself, I was a learning teacher in camp. It was all about, okay, how do I get the kids to sit down and and and listen and not uh call out. Um, but ultimately true is when the connects to to views, you know, and views that as a son and is invested in them and so that's something that was always supposed to be there just might not have existed always in all of the um is that is that something that you feel is uh important to focus on today >> 100 100% a million% I mean Ilal I think it's it's it's an important concept I personally I don't know I feel that often times people get like confused or get carried away. is emidish is em that doesn't mean that every fid is em just because somebody's religious just like just like you know you you have a non-f person will say oh I don't like the religious because they're scammers all right because one from guy scammed him and you're going to say now that that that that he's from so if he's from that he represents this guy everything he does is Listen, we're still we're still individuals, human beings that that are not perfect and we have faults and we have and we do things we shouldn't do even even among this reality exists. You know, it's not none of us are perfect. So when we say that it's important to look at the of and to and to remain loyal to that, I'm not saying that every single teacher that ever historically was a mechan we should model and say this is the way to do it. I I think back then it was true and I think it's true today. It's always going to be true that in there are people that are more loyal and more sincere and and more committed and more dedicated to doing their role the way they should and there are people that are less and everyone has to grow and has to become better and certainly I think that there's a very beneficial and positive idea that in the more recent times has become much more a topic and and there's a lot more effort and a lot more emphasis in in enhancing and bettering the the the style and the moist of so I think that that idea is very positive and it's very important and and and I do think that that exists today more than I'm all I'm always to be you know especially if you couldn't find any other job go be a teacher and uh figure it out. Go in the classroom, you have the kids. No, whatever. Figure it out one way or another. And today we take things a lot more serious. It's become much more structured than that way. And I think that's a positive thing. Now, doesn't mean that we have to throw in the garbage the Messiah because now we figure it out. No, we we we we still have to. It's good that we we we're more careful to make sure to hire teachers that take want to do it and t care about it and and we want to give more resources, more training, more support. All of that is very good, but what none of that has to be outside of the Messiah. The Messiah is still the MS of Tyra. That's what we have. And that's how we should train our teachers. That's how we should give them the values. It's 100% somebody who who's who who's who's lacks in either shouldn't be there or they need to shape up. It's it's very important the fact that that a teacher has to connect with the Talmid in a personal way. amish care about him and and or her and and really you know be there and connect in that way is fundamental and I think today there's more of an emphasis there's more talk about it we should say then maybe used to be a m that's a very positive thing but the the the the values and the approach I think should be within the one of the integral components of being aid are the andagra whether It's alfiss or gimmos. These days give us an opportunity to connect with ourim to connect with each other and be better. What is the story behind each of these days? How did the rabbi commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items needed for each of these days? All of this and much much more are answered in the new set recently published by Our Days is a journey through the Kabad calendar in story, meaning and practice with over 700 beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs. You, your family and friends will enjoy and live with each. This book is a must for every labamature home, for every schul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have this set. Go to.org/ org/ourdays. Order your set today and start living with. I heard a story um I think I heard from uh from Mayor Harle that there was an AIFA I think his father was at anifa called by the and there were discuss it there was a different abund and there was different um discussions happening about what the American jewelry needs you know at that time in the 1940s in tins So someone brought up cash with cash. So the said but let the take care of the Indian and I think what that means what was saying there that um we're not I mean first of all we have to do what's what's lacking right and if if American jury there's there's majority of American jury is not keeping So that's what we need to be massive with it. Massive with that's much more important than us having and good good meat to eat for for for the Shabas. Um but it's also like that became I mean came to America I mean that was the whole thing about education. It's mish the the whole um the whole was was built off off of and um it's uh I mean the famous says they have to think about half an hour every day right >> I was I was looking at it recently I think it's mash a lot of people like feel guilty about that means have they have to think about of their own children half an hour every day probably means that too but if you look at the lush and I believe that it's about general about the about how to educate Jewish children. I think it's like it's mish like a focal point of of the and also the in you could see it's a that gives as a tick to people that people that are struggling with tells them to be in of children like this is like for your for for certain things that you transgressions you've done. It's like mom this is like it's like uh it's the focus of everything. Um and uh and that is obviously saying you you you figure out that it depends on the place that's that's what the is approaches. >> Yeah. I mean when we when we were when our school was becoming more official so I was discussing with Rabi Men Cohen who's the you know in the general area and uh the school that we we took on when we came more official was really through his direction and and encouragement um because it's really a school that's servicing the whole greater Sacramento area. not like you know even though it's in our kabad house but it's not uh just for our own community so everything is you know been through his his leadership so at the time we're talking about you know some general direction for for the school so um we discussed that I should reach out to a few of the you know manalystas of the of the original schools or some of the schools that started know decades before to to get some insight some of the and how the schools who are established what's the right guy we we were trying to figure out the how much of it yes and you know what's the approach who are we catering to are we catering to the kids are we catering to community like we're trying to you know get a sense um so somebody told me that Rabbi Wolf in Chicago had a a minor from the Reb about it so I reached out to him among others that I reached out to as well and and if I remember correctly I don't I don't think I'm quoting the the minor exact but something to the tune of that the Reb basically he he wanted to know I believe his question was whether he should he should open a day school I don't know if he asked like in New Haven or if he a wister or it should be like a like in Detroit and and and >> one has and one has zero okay >> yeah I don't I don't know if that was the definition whatever but but um he said that the answer was that It's um or or something to that effect. So, so I said, "Okay, so that's interesting. So, how did you take the you know, how did you take?" So, he's like, "So, we decided we're going to make a day school. It's not going to be." So, I asked him, I said, "Sir, if you believe you have a day school, he said, "Yeah, we run a day school. What do you mean it's not?" So, Chicago is a day school. So I thinking to myself that's a day school then you know what's left on the table right just was an interesting uh yeah I mean even even in uh even even in crown heights there was open >> right >> I mean ultimately ultimately that looks like that's the is where we're where appropriate and possible to have purees and the Reb is very passionate about it when the Reba speaks about it and apparently subsequent to that is when was established but there's also there's also Shiva that >> 100% >> that that existed and uh even even in Bedford and Dean there were different tracks by the way there was just >> was I think for older kids no was it for young kids also >> yeah for young kids yeah >> Mhm. Mhm. >> Uh they had both, you know, but they also had a track of just at a certain point. >> That's uh that that's something um and it's also interesting Wolf Tak was on the podcast and he mentioned that that he the was a mechanic, >> you know, the the the head of the masquerb you know by by profession I guess he was a mechanic. So this was always a very central and focal point of uh of of of the of the Lavich network. Um and I think are doing it now more there are more schools opening today >> 100% >> than before. >> Yeah, I I uh I agree you know so I don't want to get carried away. This is you know whatever but you mention it so I'll I'll I'll make a comment on it. you don't like it, leave it for what it is. Um there's this there's this thing you know yesesh only not >> one thing I think it's important to to clarify and and and without this I think that you know often times this conversation could be like misdirected s from the from the side of saying you know only at all and s from the side that says no we that a child needs to have a language that they can communicate in. They can read, write and speak in that language. If they don't have that, you can't be them. So if if that that you could speak, read, and write in Yiddish, but if you're not there, then not to teach how to read and write a language. I'm not talking about, you know, be it to have a job. They could communicate. I think I think you're missing. I I I I don't I don't personally I haven't found anything in the Reb and I'm I'm not saying that I read at all. Could be I'm wrong and I would love somebody should show me if I'm wrong because I I I personally important to me and it's something that I'm involved with. But how could you be a kid without giving the ability to read, write, and speak a language fluently, appropriately? >> I agree with you 100%. And I we're veering off from the typical style of way this podcast works, but uh let's keep it real and natural. So we'll we'll go with this. I know myself I had children in a in a they have since moved to a different but they were no it was no mud period and the kids came home and they were translating everything into English like predescious in the beginning which is not the way I grew up. I mean was in in Yiddish and I was a kid. I knew how to write didn't read Yiddish. So I called the principal. I said what's the plan? Meaning it's the right we we we read we read books and we write notes and we write I'm saying whatever it is but they don't know how to read or write English. And I think that's what the Reb wants. But they don't know how to read or write in anything or they're not learning how to read. Like I can't give them a a book to read in Chinese English. she so he's that principle is going to be a whole explanation that whatever they're going to learn English on their own I don't know something that didn't make sense to me at the time ultimately ended up switching to different where it's also but they everything everything's in Yiddish and it's great first of all the English part I don't know most kids end up picking it up on their own anyway somehow but um it's not but the point is that they can read write and articulate in Yiddish great no no problem I think you're 100% right? That if for whatever reason it was decided that you can't do Yiddish, which is another conversation, which this talk may be beyond the scope of uh of this conversation, the Yiddish or not, but if they're not if they're not speaking Yiddish, they need to be able to f to to do a test. There's a certain school that they just weren't giving out tests because uh the kids couldn't write anything. I don't think that's that was that's the debana at all with only the Kadesh. >> I I I I don't believe I don't believe so. I mean give you a smaller example um you know when I was in nisha you know in yeshiva there's every shab somebody says right it's a normal thing in most and say when I was a yes I would say probably 99% of the time the whoever was in there they were always you know here they came from Australia Um a few years ago I was I was visiting one one of my my kids in yeshiva and you know the saw say in English like at the first second it was like a little uncomfortable I was like whoa like what's like in English but like if the can say the he doesn't speak I mean he maybe understands he can't so so so you just say oh no okay so If that's the language you speak, say this in English. Is it so bad? Say it in English. Say it. Of course, Yedish is is beautiful and it's special and it's precious. And we know the Reb loved it and it was very dear to the Reb Yiddish. The Reb spoke in Yiddish. Reb didn't have to speak in Yiddish. Then the Reb chose to speak in Yiddish. So Yiddish is very important. I'm not undermining it. But if for whatever reason it's not there to to say that because of that we're not going to give him the tools to communicate question to communicate this I mention a what's the right has to be able to speak to communicate you don't give him the tools to communicate you you haven't even started you're not dealing with humans it's like I spoke to >> I spoke to Mashia that gives a he speaks in Yiddish He said a sophisticated word bakim didn't understand. So he said the sophisticated word in English and the bakham didn't understand. I don't know what to do here. I'm saying >> yeah. Okay. So that's >> okay. There were always words that you know here and there word you know the reb himself and the fabian laughed in different occasions. You know he say I don't remember what the word was that the said he said and nobody knew but that's the we say fine say yeah there you know there's always that nobody nobody nobody okay and since you brought up the yiddish I'll just give a plug the other way which is in line with what you're saying about that the old way is is usually a good way a lot of times when it comes we feel that okay whatever it's a different time it's a different place and I I grew up like this but my kids are living in a different reality so so I think I maybe you could debate what how high on the pedestal yiddesh is in this conversation maybe that's a debate or not I don't know but if let's let's say you think that yiddish is a value right Let's say that's something that you think is it's nice they it's a lot of people are inclined to say okay whatever it's a different time next I can't you know I can't even think that I can't just be giddish and a lot of them that's an attitude that is wrong because just like you're saying that you know the always spoke about the generation gap and the and the is saying that how we have to the lack thereof how there is no generation gap so obviously there is you know today is not 30 years ago and 30 years ago is not 30 years before. But a lot of times we we like take it for granted. Okay, there's a generation gap and forget it. But sometimes I mean when it comes to the Yiddish itself there's a certain um a child that that can at least understand Yiddish is light years ahead just in in in say first of all you can understand the second you can read the third of all you don't have you know you can hear aidim in its original and understand it I mean it's it's it's um just I'm putting in a commercial for this just as um part part of the theme of what you're saying that um sometimes seeing the value in just the way in the way things were done this might be included in that >> 100% I I agree and I think that people should be inspired and even if it's uh you know if it's not the whole thing that's it's also good to teach certain things in Yiddish you know I think And you know in our school which bkl is not a yiddish speaking school we still make it emphasis to teach older kids how to say the manan and yiddish. There's certain things that you know obviously teach them how to say it. They should understand it in English also. But every kid even the kids who are non non from families they should be able to go home and say a manan and yiddish. It's a beautiful thing. They're not learning yiddish because of that. But yiddish is is is something very precious and something that the rebba really cares cared about very very much. So definitely we should try but we have to be realistic. I think I think one of the biggest proofs to this balance is the dead. What's the you you you taking a a platform that is designed to impart the of and really the should be a Yiddish magazine. That's if you want it to be appropriate. >> We're in Kesh. Yeah, whatever it should be, it should be, you know, the the way it should be. But what's the whole ver of is let's be let's be realistic. Let yes, we all should learn Yiddish. But we have a huge segment of our society. I'm talking about our N society that is not Yiddish speaking or at least not fluent Yiddish speaking, even not speaking. And if if we need to reach them in English, then we need to do that. And the manages to communicate these values without compromising in the in the integrity and the the and the the juiciness of of the of the of the of the but so people can relate to it. It's a beautiful thing that's wants. >> It's something that I tell people all the time especially especially when I talk to donors to their question I get like what was the genesis of the idea? The answer is very simple that not every bakr or every is able to access material because they're all in. So it was felt that uh this this needs to be available in English. I mean that's very simple. Yeah. So 100%. >> But what I what I want to emphasize is and not I'm preaching to the choir. You don't need me to tell you why that is important and beautiful. But I think I think it's it this is the the the the the novelty of this approach and and I feel that in a certain way this is what we're striving to do in our as well. In one hand we need to adapt to the crowd. We need to adapt to the audience who who who we're catering to. But on the other hand, in the process of doing that, we don't have to compromise whatsoever on the message on what we're giving over. So the could say, "Oh, it's an English magazine, so it's going to be watered down version. We'll have some things." No, it's if if if you translated, it would be like, you know, perfect top-of-the-line magazine and It's just that's in English. Even the things that that had, you know, didn't do right away, but they started to do that. You put in the the years, you put the the Hebrew year and then you put the English year. I think it's a beautiful thing to the English year. Listen, the poor guy who's reading it doesn't know what 5672 is, you know. So, give him the give him a reference. sometimes the the of the don't know either >> you know we we all live in this but I think that that's the point that I'm saying here with as well in one hand we have to make a that could be realistic for a non-firm kid to join but I don't think that in the process of doing that we need to water down the level of the say oh if you want if you want a nonfrit to join point. Then you have to teach social studies and you have to have five hours a day of of and maybe one or two hours of kesh and who needs how who's kids what you crazy not they not understand they you should teach them about live tell them come on let's be honest he's not I think that we could do both we could make the the the the the style of the in a way that it's relatable and we don't have to water down. We don't have to compromise on the standard and the values of of what we're teaching. I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense also if you think about it in general how we take and teach it to people right the said that is that it's not a party said the first night and I think it's the same exact concept with the way we deal with yen in general like there aren't like it's not like this yid is not shy to hear about I don't know he's not shy to hear you know in 10 years once he comes a lot closer then I could tell him about it sh to hear about it on day one just like on day one right on day one it's the same it's it's a very so depending on what level it is you know you're going to have to explain every line and what everything means or you're going to have to explain every three lines you know depending on what he knows and the where he's holding in in knowledge but every everything is for everybody >> that this This is an essential core uh you know attitude of the and of especially saying this this is like a very important >> credited to the but I don't know if it actually happened in the times of the idea of of being in all the languages pushed every should be translated what was recently I saw satanya translated in Chinese >> who tell me who who how many Chinese are learning Tanya because the wanted and and if I remember mistake I remember hearing that story the asked specifically theb 40 years ago wanted a Chinese theb that's take they don't compromise the message and say in Chinese we're going to make a small little book that has some snippets of of no Tanya the zela that the bak is learning in yeshiva and that you're the same Tanya the alterba wrote page by page in Chinese, in English, in French, in Russian, every this is the idea we we have to be able to that's the I I believe in some speaks that it's the you know whatever but I don't know >> did he did um translate I think the German there there were certain things that the did yeah but obviously when the it so much this is like the whole >> right >> it's it's it really happened in a real way during the rabbis and >> right >> um there's a I know I know of a person that his first you know he's from for 50 years but his first interaction was by you know he happened to be in someone's house and pulled off this is in the 1960s and pulled off an English Tanya off a shelf and started reading it I was fascinated by by the concepts someone that didn't have a background bal in you Jewish education. >> That must have been a very bright person because I I I I don't know how you can read those das back then. And actually on this >> happens to be it was and uh and uh yeah but but but but if you think about it it's like the Reba made a whole the Reb was very happy about the Tanya being translated into English then >> yeah open it up exactly like you're saying like what is this? You know this is not lessons in Tanya line by line with examation. This is you know straight up in English and like you know that's it. it's it's it's it's now it's accessible. I mean it's you have the same thing with Tanya itself. If you don't learn if if you learn Tanya without uh without a teacher without a help you know you also you know you know even if even if you safer it's hard right so this is >> it's the same concept >> okay so uh very insightful and um I think that uh your approach is unique it's a very unique it's I never heard of I never heard anything like this before this this type of school and type of attitude and that you're able to I know in other communities there's been an issue when a school that was started for you know like like a like a like a Hebrew academy and then became an an school and people can't figure out how to correlate both the things together and you're going on we're setting it up that that that it's for everybody but taking the higher approach it's very valuable it's very it's very interesting >> I met you know in our situation just we we have the advantage that because we're in a small community and because there's no like infrastructure so we we have the flexibility to you know to to to to if you want to say to play with this you know to do this and I think that a few years ago I shared this idea you know like you have the clean slates in in many of the communities where you have already an established presence even established I don't mean necessarily an but you have the the orthodox the conservative and you have whatever you have things that there's ways people do things people understand so it's a lot harder to to navigate but then when you come to a place and nobody knows anything you could tell them about you tell them about yip they never heard of either one so it's makes the difference you could tell you you so you tell them about before yip what happens nothing like goes along with it I think we have that opportunity in the as well. But I do feel that it in in you know as the reach of Labavich is growing and and are you know making greater efforts and having more in reach to be able to mamish reach every single Yid that in in some way in every community you know as per the dynamics of that community. I think that that's you know something that's inevitably we're going to have to get there and then you know maybe that may al also solve some of the crisis is what you know people trying to figure out so many go where they're going but if you know becomes more central in in in communities and it should be a concept that we could it's not mu to go and reach out to a nonfroom family and invite them to to a school a Yiddisha school that's that's not watered down. It's a regular yisha school and it's it's it's possible you know you have that already starting you know there's the hill in in Milwaukee it's you know high school regular high school it's just boys it's not mixed and yeah you know it's catered more for for non-f kids but this idea of of creating the process you know with all the infrastructure that we have now with the the Hebrew schools and the sea kids and the cens the college campuses and the young Jewish professionals. We we already covering the whole segment, but now we have to fill in the we, you know, give them give them the the the may not just the right. >> I met aid recently that um told me that he went to school, one of the we'll leave the location out. This is back in the 1960s or 70s. And he tells me, you know, I had all these teachers. He starts naming me all the labava teachers that he had. I never heard about the or about when I came to New York. I heard about and I went to Fabangan or whatever. So I feel like that was that was then that that was at that time, you know. Maybe they were supposed to do that. I don't I don't know. But today it's a whole it's a whole it's a whole different ballgame. It's and the Mayan is is out there and uh it's it's for the taking for everyone. >> Now that now that you're mentioning this, you know, the the the rebas reache I mean it's become so incredible and especially you know even talking the last few months that even if the don't want to talk about the it's too late. the world already found out and the world leaders are fighting over you know who's who's more connected with so they don't need us anymore they already found the and uh you know kamov I'm exaggerating a little bit but yeah I mean today the is popular it's not uh it's not something you know we have to anymore be you know second guessing should we say should I take a guy to dial or not today you So uh that's it. You know the the the all the big hot shots of the world everybody's running to the aisle. That's uh it's it's amazing really if you stop and think about it. It's unbelievable. And this is mish I think even post gimm it's mameish mish the most recent development in a certain way. And it's amazing. It's amazing amazing amazing this mish mashia has to be coming. No other option. >> Yeah. And um and I mean there's a from that you know you're you're going to want to get into the fab 770 and it's going to be full of uh other people. You're not going to be able to get in. You know the won't be able won't be able to even get in. So I think we're we're starting to see >> I hope I hope you didn't give up your locker over there you know that you had then >> Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. I really appreciate this and um I think it's a fresh perspective that many people will benefit from. >> Thank you for the opportunity and it's a it's a pleasure to bring with you. Keep up the great work. You're doing great and everything. It's it's beautiful. So, >> thank you for the encouragement. That's awesome.