Eps 17. Last Lines from Lachish

Did you know that the forgotten founder of Zionism went on to play a leading role in Agura Israel or that Rafatkabski was responsible for the continued presence of the Muslim wack on Harabias? It turns out that the margins of history tell the real story. Behind the times dives into the big concepts and overlook moments that carry vast meaning all through the lens of Torah and rabbitic thought. Behind the times with Rabbi Ephraim Zalinski and Gdalia Gutag. The year was 586 B.CE CE or the final months before Jewish sovereignty in Erit Israel battered by the Babylonian invasion was approaching its end. The great cities of Yehuda had fallen one by one. The roads were in enemy hands. The kingdom had shrunk to a handful of isolated strongholds. Kafi Yeryahu. By that stage only the fortified cities of Yurushalime, Lish and Aka still remained. And then there were two at Lish, the great fortress of the perched high above the valleys and roads that linked the coast to the Judeian hills. Men watched the horizon. Somewhere beyond those hills stood Azika, or at least it had stood. The defenders of Yehuda had an ancient system of communication. Signal fires. As long as Azaka stood, its fires could be seen from Lish. The commander of Lesish scanned the horizon. No signal, no fire. And at some point during those final terrible weeks, an officer in Lish sat down and scratched out a few words onto a broken piece of pottery. words that would lie buried in the earth for more than two and a half thousand years. We are watching for the signals of he wrote according to all the signs which my lord has given us for we can no longer see a my dear rebalinski those are some of the most dramatic words surely among the most dramatic findings in their archaeology of aritis and why are they directly connected to shiva that we're about to experience. First of all, I want to thank you so much for getting me interested into the story of Lish. I read a lot throughout my life and I heard the name Lish from time to time, but I never realized the scope of what is and when we continue talking today, the listeners will realize that as well. But in any case, this is a testimony of the path that will lead to and that's why you know say regarding learning to >> person should imagine when you're learning. >> I feel that the reason why you have to imagine the person teaching because you have to have context. You have to understand >> who and when is relaying the information. If you don't know that Tyus comes after Rashi or Marsha comes after Tyus, you can't understand the flow of what you're learning. >> You need to know the hierarchy, >> right? In history, it's the same thing. If you want to really understand what's going on and you want to feel it and that's why it's so important because for us, it's a gigantic mush in our heads. We don't know what the flow of history is of bias. And bias rition is a problem I feel because by shenaneies somehow Romans the local Europeans we get them but who were what what happened in biasition what do the Babylonians want you know that's one of the things that I feel as a difficulty >> and what's very fascinating is that the finds from basis are very rare not only that written finds from Bishan are extremely rare >> which makes these very important >> exactly >> and what exactly were these as they call them the Lish letters or Lish osta I think if I'm not mistaken they were shards of says shards pottery >> that were found buried in lish and we're going to get to unravel what they were >> and where were they were found they were found like the entrance to town and the most strategic point of we'll get to that later on in mid show >> I think what we're going to unravel in this episode is to perhaps get an insight into the possible story told by these broken bits of pottery because together they tell one of the most important and I think dramatic stories in Jewish history. The stories of the final days before and that story places Lakish at the center of the story. This is not just an opening hook. Rather, we're going to see that this fortress where they found this these shards of pottery is going to be at the center of the story over here because by the time that these letters were scratched out, Lkesh had already been for generations at the center of the story. And because we see we're going to explain what is so strategic about this particular location lish just I'll finish this introduction with this on on this note which is that the story is very human because as you say we have very little evidence written evidence but this is so moving you find something clearly written by at the at the in these weeks leading up to the and I think you are going to introduce an element of doubt and to cool the Islavas and you said before of my getting carried away with this. >> By the way, do you know how much in the market just one line of wording from bias sells on the market today? Go >> in the millions. >> I mean there must be price in the millions. Can you imagine the millions? >> Every every you know walking stick from things is whatever it's worth. This is a line from bias writ's there's a an office in called the antiquities office right they go searching for every word that's written from that period and I I I saw a documentary about it in Hebrew and I'm talking it talk like 5 million shekels or dollars no matter what it is but it's very >> millions of something millions of rubles anyway so let's just finish this introduction just by saying I think at the heart for me what we're about to discover here is that well as you say that by the far some type of mush some type of just a mix we don't know what it is but when I'm looking through the spend significant time now looking through say for ya and base I see one thing which I've never heard said before and which is that the story of the alongside of it being a story of hate of sin and of chuva and of a spiritual dimension which we always focus on. Fascinatingly, if you look through the Nvim, you see that at heart it's a geopolitical struggle involving three empires. Reb frame even thousands of years after its destruction. Lakish is an astonishing site. I came across it a number of years ago and as we do every so often in our family we just set out and head for a new moshave to just explore and if you take if you go out of the back way of Ramat Bit she take a left right leads to Yurushalime we took a left lead goes down towards Kiryatg and it's beautiful countryside immediately recommend the drivers >> there's a long road which is called >> 38 right it's a very long road that takes you practically from until Aza. You can reach Aza. >> Yeah. Gaza. So it's >> Yeah. I once went to interview somewhere someone in that area and it I was I was shocked about how close it is. How close she go the Gaza border is about 50 minutes away. >> Shocking. >> 50. So >> it's just like one road and which is like the heart of the country like from from the extremes until the heart until >> Yeah. And when if you go out chamsh take a left down towards kerat as which is the direction of Gaza you will after about quarter of an hour come to a junction and you'll see a set of mushim and by the way this is a a particular part of the beautiful part of the country which is grape growing part of the country people don't know for those who live here in Israel shop in the supermarkets over here you can buy inali inve catchy tuna >> correct and at Moshavlish we discovered there it is when actually saw the grape packing and distribution sorting center and you drive through it's the beginning of actually quite a few miles of uninterrupted vineyards that you don't really associate with Israel maybe you associate that with a golan of the upper gal but there it is not far from bamesh and suddenly we see rising out of the just next to this moshav we see this fortress fortress but it's a for I mean it's so clearly and it was the funny thing was we drive up to it And it looked like it had been it's like one of these it looked like it should be a national park. Here in Israel it's very expensive to get into these things or relatively expensive because once something becomes formalized they get national park. Each person needs to pay you know a certain amount to get in and it can get exp. We drove in and there was like this looked like there was a place where they were preparing to put this national park office and ticket office but there was nothing there. >> Wasn't open officially. It wasn't open and yet they walked around and they had these signs everywhere helpfully saying this is what things were and that was the beginning of our encounter. We went back many times. >> I want you to describe because it's very important over here the size of the fortress. >> Yes. So let me describe describe what you're seeing over here. You come into you park the car you see a fortress. What do I mean by this? You can see it's not just this kind of like castle thing. It was clearly it's called a tell. A tell is an archaeological hill. It is clearly a sizable town, a fortified town. And this town, I could we could just talk through it what you're seeing first. What you're seeing first, you don't even know what you're seeing first because you see this kind of like a hill that is partially covered with like earth, meaning it looks like a hill. And you can see there's fortifications rising from the top, but you don't see a lot of those fortifications are covered. And the reason is what you're not aware of is that you're seeing the siege works that the that the Babylonians created to to encase the walls of this town and literally to invade it. >> It's a double encasing because what I found out last night was that the this the besieures, right, the ones who was coming from outside, they were piling up dirt on one side, right? And th those who were inside were throwing torches on them from the top and rocks and bo boulders. But when they realized that nothing was working, they they themselves started to build a mound of themselves in order to fight them punim punim. So you mean they had to build it as high? Exactly. So which which means effectively it's a bit confus and in this mound apparently although it's not something I suppose if you started grubbing around in the dirt you'd find it yourself but in this mound what you what is apparently there they found hundreds or possibly thousands of arrow heads that were from make a mistake it was not from Babylonian times it was from 700 CE which is the time of the Assyrian ashure just for the benefit of our listeners okay we have to understand that you're going to talking about this at length but you have to understand that that it like the capture of Lish and then came back in two stages. One 100 years before the other one. The first one was Sanv which managed to capture Lakish and did not manage to capture as we know from the Nim >> and then BL comes in their steps 100 years later recaptures Lakish and manages to capture but it's the same route. It's exactly the same route >> and the root is very important. We're going to get to that. So, let's just walk up together. If you imagine you see this big wall next to this wall, you're starting immediately an ascent ramp. The ramp would have been the same back in the day because you had to get up into the city. You're climbing up and you're walking up next to the walls of the city and you come to a gate. And when I say a gate, I don't mean that you can see the crossbar or the gate the gateway. You can see post on either side with a wall. But what is so impressive about this as the signage points out over there is that you see what we call what we talk about in Yukur every day on Shabas. We talk about the dion devo the dionim of the gate. Now what how do you sit inside a gate? How do you how many day on him? >> We know that from an earlier source. We know that from the sher. >> We know from an earlier earlier source because who is it? I was thinking that to the sher it was the business. We know in ancient times the gateway was in some way constructed that lots of business could go on. The judges should sit there. There was going to be dion sitting there. The business whatever. And there you see one because this is what it is. A gateway is a double gateway. What it is is you go into one and then there's a large area, I don't know, quite a few square meters, a big area, okay? And then there's a right hand turn and you're in the second gate. So since the both the whole area is rooms, they're rooms. They're not like just like an open gate. You have a complete room. Correct. Like inside that complex of the gate. >> That is what is first of all one of the things that I learned walk walked away from then is say, "Hey, I really understand that you can understand this. It is this is what it is." But when you get to the top, I think there's a palace of one of the Mali who was who was there. I forget which one it was. >> Amatsia, I think. >> Yeah. But it says it says earlier than that. >> Am Matsio was killed. We know that Amatia ran away from >> ran away from there and he was assassinated there. So I don't know whether it was his palace, but in it was for hundreds of years a fortress of the of the Maluda. Now the important reason is as soon as you get beyond the gate, look out of the view and you'll understand what the why they put a fortress there. What is it? cuz you look all the way down to the west, I suppose it is, and you see all the way to Gaza. Now, what is important about Gaza? We think, well, there's Kamas in Gaza and etc. Yeah, Gaza has always been a problematic place. Gaza was the base of the palistim. Okay. So if you are ready from the time of dam he has to deal with Gaza and its cities Gas others which are encroaching and the the pistim always want to encroach all the way to Jerusaleim. So the fortress is there to block them because once you control those highlands of the of the highlands of the lowlands you therefore dominate the route you physically block the way into >> but that's only one direction on the other direction is the direction towards so you have like this fortress which is controlling the entire place we call in zones medina and that is a beautiful country if you stand on top of that that fortress over there. It's like you described about the vineyards, right? It's all like lush greenery. It's a beautiful That's the heart of it. >> And I would add, hold on. So, you're looking one way towards Gaza and all to all the Philistine and Philist cities that would have constantly trying to encroach towards it and the other way to Jewish line. I'll ask you to look a bit further towards Gaza because if you look south from Gaza, meaning if you look in the same southwest direction, what are you looking at? Egypt. Now Egypt, we think that we had to see some shrine. We forget them and the only thing that Egypt could possibly get is some horse horses or cotton or whatever it is. That's not the case. The case is that Egypt remained a regional power. They're always trying to get up. For Egypt, they've either got two directions. If Egypt wants to exercise it power, it can either go deeper south into Africa into Kush and all these different places. But if they want to go get out, they have to come through what we call Gaza. And then they can either continue up the coast of the Levventine coast all the way up the coast of Israel past past Tel Aiv past Khifa past you know Nahar until the >> that's right >> till the Golan >> to the Golan and cross over into Syria and then from there Iraq Iran what are all these places >> so this is actually like I don't know it's a gateway or a pathway from it to the main kingdoms of Ashure >> and and Bville >> and So what actually happens we're going to see is interestingly whichever direction you come from if you're coming from Gaza coming from Egypt that certainly have to go through this route but in other times whether it's BL or whether it's Ashure before it who are coming to tackle this fortress what do they want with this fortress the answer is they've come down the Levventine coast they've come from what's called Lebanon and they're trying to get to Egypt and they're trying and once they get down the coast post they suddenly say, "Hey, what about you? We're going to swing back in land and they're blocking their route as Lakish." And that is what you can see just standing on top of it. >> Just to get the dimensions of the palace, right? >> Yeah. >> I don't know how it works out in in in American measurements or in English measurements, but we're talking about the palace itself was three dunams and it's surrounded by aer of 12 dunams. And what I understood is the majority of the city of Lakish was the palace and its courtyards. I mean that that took up like the majority of the the rest was a minority area of the >> So in other words, what we're see what we're saying there is very simply that it was a royal fortress with perhaps some dwellings of you know the soldiery the the garrison would have need to be there but it's by no means a city with a a fortified city. >> It's not usual but kitsu. Yeah, for most of the history I think of bias rish there was one overwhelming fact of life that we are perhaps not aware of and that of going going to the geopolitics of it frame which is ashure rule the world you know and we have all bits of fragments in our mind I think ashure loeno and ashure this and I think probably we can talk about maybe we can pull out of had there was a you know who's the kings of Ashure and there was >> more importantly we till today >> Mhm. I don't know if you can suffering but with our results from the fact that Ashure ruled the world because the gar tells us that mixed up >> in order to prevent revolts what he do he replaced nations in from the places of birth right >> include including the one from here include that's what he did that he moved the goddess of amus from here right >> and he transported people into Isisro and from different different lands >> and the people he put here were who >> the kim were part of them >> and they were insincere converts I think >> even though today the shim will be very insultive if you say that they come from those kim but but that's what we believeically the logic behind that is is that a person will revolt in order to save his homeland >> but you mean if he's on but if he is anyway a guest he's he's going to be much more >> quescent exactly >> do you know by the way there's a parallel to this do you know who did this Joseph Joseph Stalin. Joseph Stalin in the 30s, one of his approaches, he moved millions of people around, crazy places. He took Koreans, do you know they ruled Korea, right? That he took Koreans and he put them in Kazakhstan and he took Kazakhstanis and put them in crazy places and he created this sense nobody belonged, nobody had any roots anywhere. As you say, how could you >> why should I fight for this? >> What do I want to fight against? In other words, it just sent everyone crazy and they couldn't they couldn't. So this has this has ramifications because we cannot if you ask a question today is why don't we have a today of of like to destroy the right or the the all these things all comes as a result of the fact that we cannot determine on any single person anywhere >> which people were native >> exactly who comes from Malik. So that was by as you as you say it's very insightful that because what we see from Khazal is by the way an imperial strategy. What is Sanv doing? Sanv is conquering forming an empire and the way he exerts his control is by as you say moving people around. But you know we perhaps don't realize what a powerful empire it was. So who is Sanv and its empire? Sanrev was one of the last powerful rulers of Ashur and where was it based? So it's a familiar name but perhaps we don't associate it with Ninve Nimbe. So go and tell the people of Ninvea Navi to go to repent and we always think and know Ninveet who knows where that is. Ninve is a city on the banks of the Tigris River in modernday Iraq. That's where it is. And the most amazing thing is to see the the pictures of the decor very rich carvings on the walls of that palace which talk about destroying and attacking Yehuda. Lesh >> Lesh >> is specifically Lish and it's it was transported from Ninveet to London I think >> all over the place actually and luckily so and were it not for European colonialism it would have been back into I was looking around and I found that back in from an article back in 2016 when the ISIS remember Dish ISIS Islamic state were busy blowing up priceless antiquities they it statues and things that stood for thousands of years and they all blew up even handily be, you know, casually a bit of the that palace there, including something priceless, absolutely priceless, is not possible to replace. But the point is that what's very interesting is some scholars claim that the reason why he made such a deal out of commemorating the capture of Lakish was cuz he couldn't capture. >> Makes a lot of sense. >> He wanted to prove, you know, like >> he had to come away with something. >> Exactly. Right. So imagine uh Donald Trump like after losing quote unquote the war with Iran, he has to come up with something. You mean it's a piece of it's a piece of propaganda to tell a story that's tell a story of victory when really it was a story of defeat. >> It's fascinating that it really is a piece of propaganda because there's even a there's a plaque on top of it which describes what you're seeing. Don't leave it to guessing, right? >> It just says these things. >> So the diplomats were visiting the Imperial >> plaque from his time, not from our time. The plaque is from San >> so it's not it wasn't in a museum. This was something that every visiting diplomat would have had to see and gone back to report. A you would have reported the magnificence of Ninve and of Sanv. But he also would have said he also would have said ah and this is a king this is a king who's conquered this and I saw this and I conquered that and he conquered the other and these reliefs they're called where they the carvings they tell a story as you say tell what's fascinating is that we can see from th those drawings how the battle went like what the Jews were using in order to to battle them what kind of techniques and you can find like the types of plants that grew in that area everything is very detailed in in that >> well I mean Listen, it was a one-of-a-kind. This was the ruler of the ancient world employing the most, you know, I suppose the most advanced forms of of, you know, artists to develop and commemorate his victories and as you say, to tell a story. But all that came to an end because the empire of Ashure had ruled for over a century had ruled for over a century all the way. We have to understand it was a world power. Let's just understand it ruled all the way from Egypt to the Persian Gulf. That means if what we would call the entire near and middle east and beyond as well. So that is remember that this is the cradle of civilization back then. You can forget America. You can forget Mos was going in Europe. You can forget everything. This is the center of the world and he rules all of it. But it all part of that he at some stage as you see in the safe of Malikim base Ashure is encroaching deeper and deeper into the northern kingdom. the kingdom of Mle Israel which is based in Shyarin and eventually he it's c the last the final the 19th king of the northern kingdom his name is hash bin who was a vassel of Ashure it is captured and it says Shmanessa Ashur we know that Shmanessa was the I think the pre the one before Shamanessa came and then there's a siege alim he captured it for after three is and then underv he is they're exiled the northern kingdom is exiled and is gone and that's what we know already the they go and then what happens is very natural because if you are the king of what do you say okay I've got the northern kingdom keep going down south and it's described for come what's a very important thing just you know and talk about cop just holding The difficulty of is to follow the two tracks of happening simultaneously. But it says in the 14th year of the king and attacks the southern kingdom conquers all of the fortified cities and he and he takes them. And so what do we see over there? The son doesn't he doesn't he's not going for first. He's his strategy is to get he's not going to attack the head first. He's going to attack the outlying limbs. And one of them is none other than >> me seeks terms with the Assyrians. So he's trying to appease them. He's the king of but all his outlying fortified cities swallowed up. He doesn't send a message to Ninve. We find that Puk says very clearly he sends it to what does that tell you? That tells you that by that stage Lish has been become an important forward operating base. They call it a stronghold stronghold of >> Ashur of Ashure inside um >> Erit Israel. And you find other people who can describe the same thing. We have that when Rav Shock who was one of the three generals I think it would have been of uh in Israel operating conducting the assault on he says and he sends the he sends the again the jumping off point you'd use in the milit modern parliament and military terms is from Lish itself and that status of Lakish Reframe as you said before is commemorated on the walls in Sanv's palace where as you said before it reads Sanv king king of the world king of Assyria sat upon his throne and reviewed the booty of les but actually what actually happened there was things didn't go to plan because having conquered all the the orbits all the fortified cities of Yehuda conquered lish they're using it as an operating base etc what happens he fails to take That is a fact historically because as you said before the fact that he commemorates the capture of not proves that he did not conquer because no one in his right mind would think that Laksh is more important than so if he did conquer he would have mentioned it. Now according to our Naveim we know that a a miracle happened which blocked him from entering Shalai >> which is interesting that not for the first time the a dictator didn't report on his defeats >> but we can derive it from the fact that he didn't commemorate his victory. >> Correct. So he was forced as the account over there. He had to go back for other reasons first to his capital Ninve and it was and at the time it was because he had apparently had brothers who was he was not so clear that he had to look after his throne. Remember it's 1500 miles back to Ninve and he has to he has a kingdom there and his brothers may not be so loyal to him and he's had to go back. When he comes back that seems to have been when the miracle happens 185,000 of his soldiers. I want to point out that anyone going to visit the >> Kiso >> who walks through the old city >> when he walks down that famous alley that everyone goes to buy ice cream, right? going walking down from the to the right >> from the square there >> from the square of the down to the down to the steps that go down to the >> if you take a left turn after I think the ice cream stores right >> take a left turn and you'll see you look downwards and you'll see a massive piece of a wall >> that's called his wall that was the wall that he created in order to block And if you see how wide that wall is, >> many meters and meters thick. It is. You're talking about it's on the far side of this of the where the is go past and instead of going across to to down to the coast, you turn left. >> Turn left to one of the alleyways on the way to the left alleyway there. Yes. >> Yeah. You can see it's like bordered. >> It's an it's an amazing site. It's an amazing site because you see >> but you have to realize what you're watching. >> Correct. And that's the context over here. This is and this for this reason he Sanv took a strategy would have taken one look at those walls and said you know what I'm going to do I'm going to isolate your shaleim your shalim is a very tough nut to crack on its own I'm going to isolate it by cutting itself off and conquering the rest of his kingdom and force to his knees and in fact what was able to do was to was to make terms with after and he lost his army as well and he retreated having promised to pay tribute and to be some type of subject to to if you allow me to interject with something that wall that we're talking about has significance until today >> and that it is a which is called sheni >> that is that you have to give a tenth of produce every few years not every year it's the first second fourth and fifth year of counting from shmita >> and in between is my >> right the third and the sixth is is that the tenth of the produce has to be eaten inside. >> But the Torah tells us that you can redeem the money >> and bring the money to and eat the the with foods in your the problem is that fruit that entered your does not have that of redeeming the fruit unto money. Okay. So today till this day you cannot redeem fruit that entered you shalim. Now what is >> so I saw the R of the has a very interesting has a very interesting article about this and he uses this wall >> and he says what within this wall is definitely >> because you can see it's the old wall >> it's not the sultan's wall >> correct which is the modern walls of are just from the >> they had no significance right so he's saying this we know for certain so if you're in the you mean you're definitely in hakushim yeah Beautiful. Beautiful. The empire that destroyed Mhas is nearly destroyed Yehuda obviously disappeared itself almost a century after Sanv his capital Ninve falls in 612 B.CE. So remember that just the timing is coming at about is coming about 700 612 almost a century later Nimbe falls captured by the Babylonians and >> and that becomes the major empire of the world. >> For me this is where the story of the takes off because all of that was a long windup to explain the significance of Ashur. But the story of the is really the story of three empires. And let me just explain like this. The story of the Quran is the story of when the empire of Ashur was weakening and fading as we see its capital was captioned 612. It's the story the second moving part in that story is of Egypt under paro which to see Egypt as a regional and world empire at some stages is getting nervous. Okay. And when you're a nervous thing why because the third empire BL Babylonian are rising. What does a nervous empire on one side do about about a rising empire on the other? When there's a third dying empire in the middle, it says, "Let's try and hold up that third empire." What we'd call a buffer zone, a buffer state. That is exactly what happens over here. Because as Ashure disappears, what happens is the old enemy Egypt was conquered and ruled by Ashur for a long time. But Egypt itself is now more worried about Bovel. So it says, "Oh, let's keep this tottering old giant on a bit on its feet to protect us." And that's what happens over over there because that's the context of one of the great tragedies of a frame was one of the great tragedies which we say on tishab we also hanovi said these elegy kino for for king yosho king Josiah and what happens it was a righteous sadic righteous >> a tremendous what did he say that's what he said in his perhaps he will be able to stave off the impending threat of these empires and it worked for a state. Now what's the basic story of King Yosho? Yosha Mel was >> he was commanded by by by the Novi not to to go out to war >> with Yeah. >> And he disregards that and he he confesses on his deathbed after after he's shot by many arrows >> by many. Yeah. Correct. Like it says like a like a civ they made him >> right. He he didn't listen to the warning of the novi. >> But why did he again? What was it said? He said, I'm not going to listen to the novi because he said there's says clearly when the on the right mga sword pass through your land au shall shalom even a sword of peace. Now I have to remember that parro over Egypt parro's Egypt was an ally of Yehuda. So why was he standing the way? He's saying because it's a pos. And the novi said to him, "No, you don't understand that klalis look in your days. You brought them all to great chuva. He abolished abar and he himself the story of yoshio was he only discovered the tyra later much later in life and it was an incredible thing. He didn't know what the safety terra was and he led a wave of chuva. But what was happening is as we read if you open your art scroll Maka you ask art scroll Kinus and Tishab you said that behind the doors they had split into two and when you put the doors together Frame I don't know if you I always imagine this from when I read this as a kid I always imagine this is like you know like an old western they have like like the saloon the saloon were like the saloon bar door to come together so that was what happened they like the saloon bar doors and avoidar split in two and so when Yoshio's inspectors came to see whether there was aar said no it's green look at our sh look at our shas look at everything and when you put it together there was the widescreen TV you know that was what it >> what's very interesting is that in lish that you we spoke about before >> we see remnants of fight against avoid as well they found their altars it could be that it was bis outside that's also an iss Besides to be outside they found that the corners were like rubbed off. That's one of the things that they found in and the other thing that they found >> rubbed off meaning smashed in that way. What a bummer needs to have like square corners like >> so if you rub it off right >> if you rub it off then it disqualifies. And the most fascinating thing is that they found in inside the place where like the holy of holiest of those places they found a bathroom. >> Really? >> You find you see a stone >> that has a hole in it. >> Was that bal? >> And the archaeologists say that they placed a bathroom there in order to make sure that this room will not be used. >> Oh, I for it was a way of expressing this. >> And they say it's from the times of the archaeologists say it's the time of >> right. Just fascinating that. So >> if we ever go visit there, we should look out for that. >> Definitely have to do that. So So what happens is that in that time Yoshio is killed as he stands up to Paroy and he would the battle at a place called Megiddo, right? And there's Tom at Megiddo, which is people if you travel up north, you're going to see there's Megiddo junction and there he dies. What happens? One of the greatest kings in Jewish history falls in the middle of a struggle between empires. Because whilst we in the kinus always think about friend, the fact that you know whatever it says the is full of that part of it is talking about death. We don't we also have to reme remember that there was a who was on the other side where was parano going he was simply wanted to go across to go to aid the ashurim Assyria is being conquered >> to fight boville because he's scared of bvel and he's trying to prop up Assyria over there >> and so what happens after Yeshua Malik dies >> so who's the king so you know what happens Paris says that's it Judea the kingdom of Judah of Yehuda has now passed from the column of ally into the column of enemy and therefore it's a vassal state. I'm going to install my man in it. So what it says Harro takes a son of doesn't like that one. He puts another son of in power. A son called he renames him. Right? We know what is the act of renaming someone. He says he changed his name. When you change your name, he's saying you're my boy, right? You only exist as king. That's the significance of it in my behest. And so what happens over there is the kingdom of Yehuda is for some time is for just four years. Four years under into the Mlees Yudas under the Egyptian sphere of influence. And why only four years reimagins? Why only four years? Because what happens is that parro having killed Yoshiu installed a puppet he's marching to defend Ashure. He comes to battle with the Babylonians on the Euphrates on the Harper place called Kamish. Okay. And in a gigantic battle in 605 B.CE he loses. Remember what's happened? He's attempting to maintain his buffer zone. Let's just get the chronology over here. The Assyrian capital Nve falls in 612. So the Assyrians say, "Okay, Niveve is gone. It was totally destroyed. Left behind a few bits of plaster work in the palace like we saw." They moved it their capital to a place called Kuran, which sounds very familiar cuz it is familiar, right? Rememberuh from Kuran and Kuran is captured in 609 and the Assyrians need to flee to another place, Kamish. And there manages to draw them to bring them to battle and he defeats and the end result of that thing is that Egypt is finished as an empire. How do we know? Because yum novi in perman says the following very it's like a geopolitical earthquake of a he says this is a prophecy about actually he's prophesying about the the army of paro and the end result is as we say in It's an unbelievable thing. Never again did was able to leave in a military sense to project power beyond his land. He left him enclosed in his own. >> Well, what were his actually? >> Be beyond which is beyond either or the Nile. >> Right. So in other words, he can't. Now I think if I'm not mistaken, what happens is the completion of that is that in other words, remember he's based on the Euphrates. That's where his base, that's where his power is. And he's taken the whole of the Assyrian Ashure Empire all the way through Iraq, Iran, and all the way across Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, Turkey as well, because that's what he's taking that power all the way down what we call the Levventine Sea, the coast of Arit Israel. He's taken it all the way to and he tries to go beyond that but he's repulsed. But he did continue his conquers not through Mitim but towards through the route of as we explained before from Aza which is to the route. So he swings back into lish which brings us right back to the fortress. So we return to Azaka and to Lahish and to the fact the extraordinarily strategic position as you say of this fortress guarding the approaches to your shaleim. This is like the second round of fighting. The first round was Ashure against and now we are and against the last remaining king of Yale. And as the as we began with says the says the Babylonians are approaching trying to fight for there's only two fortified cities left of Yehuda only these fortresses remain. And that brings us to this wonderfully poetic letter that the fires have gone out of Aza. So I didn't want to ruin your enthusiasm when you mentioned it in the beginning, but I want to point out that >> you're about to you're about to ruin it, >> right? There is someone who at a certain period in his life also dabbled in politics. His name is Dr. Benny Bean. Whoever doesn't know who it is, >> son of former. >> He didn't do well in the leud as as we know, right? At a certain point, he just left. He picked himself up on the left. >> Maybe the skepticism, which we're about to see, was too much for the voters. I think that's what happened, >> right? So he he says that this letter that you read in the beginning was not like one of the fine letters before the but like a random report of one of the guards of Lish saying that he can't see the fires of Azaka had nothing to do with the hurban or anything like that but there's no doubt that the letter comes from the times by like the writing and the context and the pottery >> that that's a given. The question is this one of the letters that was right before the >> and by the way it's all too easy to draw the links here we have a saying the last two cities and here it is it's and that was before the immediately before because once you capture this the moved on and here he's saying we can't find a so it's confirmation >> you're right there's no doubt that this letter confirms or not saying confirm but it's it's parallel to what we have in the Tanakh that Isa lish. >> I can well imagine how a researcher is going to be find this is so compelling as we as I I do to tell the story and say this is what it is. But as you say, skepticism is in order. But let's just back up a minute and just understand what was actually on these letters themselves. They were written between an officer called Hosayu and his commander of Lish called Yush. Seems to have been Yodal Vshin. And they're all they're very it's just basic housekeeping. Oh, by the way, in one of the letters, he's very insulted that someone accused him of not reading the letter properly. Like like he was like a bit illiterate. That's why they are so human. They're literally authentic. They're authentic. You're reading the guy's notebook. It's his text messages. You know what I'm saying? Like he got angry here in one letter. He asked for provisions, some loaves of bread and jugs of wine. And he also discusses obviously troop movements. And then he has as you say the irritated defense of his own literacy. And then there's also a reference to the morale actually says the words of the officers are causing sort of low morale amongst the troops. And then you have this famous this line that we've belabored already. We can't see as everything else whether it is or whether it isn't that particular smoking gun of t the last stage for the ra I just want to say why I found this so I said at the beginning of the episode when I went out to lish for the first time it was a Friday morning and I sent a message to my father who was I think was was about 9:00 in over here and so it was must been about 7:00 in in in England my father is and I said am I right in saying that we have a family history connection to this face. He said, "So, what are you talking about?" I said, "There was something in the back of my mind." And he sent me back. He says, "Of course, my father's grandfather, Professor Schlma Osha Burma, son of the son of Dr. Nathan Nosen Burma, the famous Belchua, who was the subject of a couple of episodes at the beginning of this series, was a expert in in Hebrew paleography, which is this to identify the age of script in he was an expert in in in Yiddish and also ancient Hebrew. And he was involved actually in discussing in dating some of the correspondents here because handwriting and letters you know the ois change over time and he was able to say >> that's how you can identify any written document like from what kufi it came from >> correct he was each kufu had it unique >> correct and he was involved in dating the dead sea scrolls because of that as well and so when I standing there it was it is you know this jumped out finally I said oh wow this is where those shards came from there were also seals from the king. They found these hundreds and and the fortresses in around Lish there's quite a few fortresses around Lish's Tel So which is opposite Ramshiml there is Tel Ao which is AO which which we said was destroyed which is again nearby there multiple fortresses around and they have in them hundreds of these seals which are called in English they're called LMLK seals because LMLK spells out Lamel right and this is Piscar's seal The seals have in them like an Egyptian symbol, a scarab, like a beetle. And that beetle symbol was extremely common. It was an Egyptian device which goes to show that was Egyptian influence. And you can see therefore Malus Yehuda being balanced between these two different powers. >> I want to end with just one thing. We've talked about Lesh. We've talked about a lot about its walls. Okay. I want to talk about just to end with talking about the walls of a city of Bal itself that those who conquered those who conquered afterwards Yuraline and just because there's last little remarkable fragments from safer seaferia as I said I think what we're seeing from this episode is possible to see the Naveim and to read in them and to understand the allimportant context to understand that they are actually not just talking about they're talking about very specific items or trends or personalities that existed in their world and even in fragments of words a few words here and there they're referring to things and one of the things that struck me when when preparing this episode was the descriptions of Bville now we know that BL was a magnificent city it was it's we don't have time in this episode there to explain exactly what exactly what there was we can see of it but one >> falling gardens the hanging gardens of Babylon which is never unclear. This is one of the unclear things. Archaeologists have never located these things. But what is interesting is that Hanovi refers to BL as she who dwells on many waters. Now that would have made perfect sense to those who knew that the capital city of the world's superpower was based in a city that was on the Euphrates River and in fact was had this ingenious irrigation system where they sort of like these Archimedes screws that we know that that take that from the ancient world bring irrigation water up from a river and the city the ancient historians describe it as being so well so much water it was like you inside the city there was like It was cool and there's water everywhere and that was because as Yurum just describes it in a few words as I think that's really beautiful to to compare but there's another thing as well which is that we know that the ancient Greek historian Heroditus who describes that the walls of Bville were so thick so wide that they could be that two chariots each drawn by four horses could go past each other on top of the wall without touching each other and Yumo Hanovi himself describes this in a few words in in the end of he says and we know that when they found that eventually excavated it they found that the cities 120 years ago they found that the walls of Bavl itself were something like you know 17 m thick it itself. If you allow me to just end off from my p perspective in the University of Berlin, they discovered a like receipts of the prison guards of Bavl where they they're reporting to the commanders the expenses that they have to feed the prisoners and one of the prisoners that they talk about there is Yin and his family. And we know that from Tanakh that Bavl and like reinstituted a king in called Sidkio but took took captivity him and his family and they were the only ones that survived from based and we found the receipts of the guards reporting that this is the money that we need in order to feed. says in that this is found in the receipts in the prison of the the palace of Baba something you trigger there thought a little thought process because I know there's almost like a cottage industry about how we find the days of Shivas particularly and tishov particularly difficult because we have to connect to these days when 24 hours it's not our world it's very hard to connect well isn't it remarkable that out of the many there's not much left over of many of the empires that we have very little about them. But on these empires, the ones that destroyed us, we see that the Russian whether it's from Ninve all the way to BL or the Sheni, there are strong remnants left over because perhaps Ly Al is as I think Yo says and this is something that we can appreciate if we look at these findings up close. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for listening to Behind the Times. We appreciate you joining us as we explore the stories and people that shape Jewish history. If you enjoy this episode, please subscribe, leave a review, and share with friends. Until next time.