Fally Klein on Breaking Rules Finding God & Living Authentically

Keep doing this, Michael. >> He knows I'm loving it. >> I don't see private clients anymore. I do so much beyond hypnosis. This is not where I thought this conversation is going to go. And I'm having a fabulous time. >> None of your business, Oshi. None of your business, Michael. >> It's the None of Your Business podcast hosted by Michael and Oshi. >> Welcome back everybody to another inspirational, growthoriented, funny, humorous, amazing podcast. The Nus podcast produced by the Prime Source production team. Steph will amazing how far we've gotten till now. Are you are you still not proud of over 10,000 listeners? >> I'm getting there. >> You getting there? >> I'm getting there. >> Okay. All right. Good. We are you proud of the fact that Twillery is our sponsor now or you don't you're not into that either yet? >> Is the check cleared yet? >> The shirts have not arrived. >> And the shirts have not arrived yet. >> Okay. You know what? Maybe next week you'll you'll actually get into it. Uh, I'm excited today because first of all, I'm loving all the likes and the comments and from that we come here today because somebody actually recommended you and uh we're going to get straight into that. So, welcome Klein. >> Yep. >> So, nice to have you with us. >> Thank you. I'm still can't believe that I'm here. This is this has been a whirlwind. I'm excited to see where this goes. >> Yeah. Uh, what's the name Phley? Where does that What's the root word of that? >> Yeah, I saw you stumble on and I'm like, they're for sure going to ask. It's the letter olive spelled backwards. My name is fella. So ah >> I'm the oldest. >> Oh, interesting. So you're a fella. >> Okay. >> Right. So it's >> I like it. I like phi. I like it. Me too. It rolls off the tongue nicely. >> It does. It does. So like in class when I was in ninth grade, there was a folly, Tali, and Molly in the same class. It was not my best year, >> but yeah, I I'm I I do love my name. Definitely helps me stand out a little bit. >> So one of the ways we get our audience to get to know you is we have a segment called Chat GPT said what about you? Have you ever done a chachu pit? Says what about you? >> I have not, but I'm going to assume that whatever they took is straight off my website. >> Uh, not really. I don't know. It doesn't really give me the resources here, but it's on the bottom somewhere, which I don't have, but it's kind of interesting. Let's see where it takes us. So, um, she turned a diagnosis at the age of 16 into a master class on resilience. While most teens were stressing about prom, she was rewriting her entire life playbook. >> Wow, that is true. And that is something that I'm known for. The prom line is funny. I'm not sure how they got to that because the story of me and growing up is a a from thing. There is one line probably in the entire book I wrote about having a cancer diagnosis about prom, but that's funny. >> So, you never know where it comes from. You wrote a book. >> I did. I wrote a book called Miracle Ride. It's not published under my name. It's published under a pen name, uh, Zippy Kaitton. It's pretty famous. I think at this point it went into eight printings. So, it's been making the rounds. So, a lot of people I'll come on a podcast and they'll see my face and they'll hear me be introduced as Folly Klein and they're like, "No, it's not." And it's like, "Yes, it is. I have two names, Folly Klein and Cippy Katen. They're both me." >> Wow. What's the book about? >> So, when I got my cancer diagnosis at age 16, one of the things that I heard a lot was, "Don't worry, you'll get through this. You're going to forget this. All the hard things you go through in life, you forget about them. You're going to be okay." And I think I was in a stage of being a little bit rebellious, a little. like don't tell me what I'm going to forget. Also, it felt when you get a diagnosis like that, it takes over your whole life. And I couldn't believe that something that was so big for me was going to disappear. And I felt like, no, if I'm going through this, there must be a reason why. Don't tell me just get through it, get healthy, and then you'll forget about it. I'm like, life is precious. Every moment is precious. And I had a a really special oncologist. He passed away right before the summer, Dr. Michael Harris and he he taught me this as well. I asked him, "When is cancer going to be over?" And he said, "Never." He says, "It's never going to be over." Do you think there's ever going to be a day that you're not going to wake up and say Modani with like extra gratitude? Cuz you you never forget that you're a cancer survivor. Don't wait until the day you're declared in remission to start living your life. Your life starts right now. >> Wow. >> You don't know what's going to happen in an hour. You don't know what's going to happen in a minute. >> Live this moment. And so I was journaling the entire time that I was going through this. Remember this is 22 years ago. So in the Jewish community, people didn't say the word cancer. They said yella or poo poo poo. That's what they would say a lot. And I was like no, I'm going to go to school bald if that's what it takes. Like you are going to look at me. This exists. Let's talk about this. So I wrote a diary really for myself. But then people in the community wanted to talk. And I was the one they were talking to and I was 16. And I said, "If everyone needs to to talk, there needs to be more information available." So, I took my diary and I put it into I published it in a book and I became super famous. Um, >> that's incredible. >> Yeah. >> Amazing. >> Didn't I didn't >> I'm blown away. I don't even know if I can keep reading this. I'm like, I want to hear more about that. >> Please do cuz you know some it's so funny like I'm so sick of the cancer story almost like there's been a whole lifetime since then. >> Yeah. >> A certified hypnotherapist, intimacy counselor, and break breath work guide. She's basically the Swiss Army knife of healing but cooler and with better stories. >> The Swiss Army knife of healing, >> right? You like that tagline? >> That's That's great. >> You can take it. >> I will. >> So, are you a hypnotherapist? Is that really? What is a hypnotherapist? >> A hypnotherapist is somebody who uses the modality of hypnosis to facilitate growth, healing, change, transformation. I got into hypnotherapy when traditional therapy was having me up against the wall. I wasn't going anywhere. You know, I think that when you when you're in talk therapy, you can only talk as much as what you're consciously aware of. And we many times talk ourselves into circles or I don't know if you have a friend that's going through something, we often find that their stories are repetitive. They'll just keep saying they're struggling with the same thing again and again. And I found that I wasn't getting where I needed to go, where I wanted to go. And I got introduced to hypnotherapy quite serendipitously, right? Miraculously, I said, I'll I'll give it a shot. See what it see what it does for me. I didn't even know at the time that it was therapeutic in nature. It just seemed fascinating. I wanted to be hypnotized. I wanted to know what it would do. And in one session, the anxiety that I had been struggling with that I accepted as a fact of my reality just dropped like in intensity from I would say it went from 100 down to 25. and almost seamlessly, effortlessly, and it fascinated me. And I said, I think we're missing something. At the time, I was in school studying to become a forensic psychologist. That was my passion and mission. I was watching a lot of true crime shows. I wanted to work in Rikers. I wanted to work with criminals in the system. And I was facing this strange crossroads where >> I was realizing that the system is full of people who couldn't be helped. The system wasn't actually helping people. And then I discovered something alternative that the system wasn't really a big fan of. And I made the decision to drop out of college and just pursue what was really working in my life. So I went down the road of hypnotherapy. Has been practicing I I'd been doing private practice for quite a few years and uh really proud of what I was able to bring forth. When I first started practicing hypnotherapy, people were like, "Is it kosher? Is it Jewish? Who's your rabbi?" Today, everyone's talking about it. It's like an accepted form. It's an accepted modality. People would also ask like, "Does it work?" That's the question I get most often. The answer I give most often is no, always with a straight face. I always tell people it doesn't work. Um, what they're really asking though is will it work for me? Because most of the people who come to a hypnotherapist, >> they're exhausted. They've gone to everyone else, right? Uh, they just want to know like, am I wasting time with you? Right? So, I did that for a long time. And then I expanded based on the stuff that people were bringing forth in sessions. I realized there was so much more I wanted to learn. So, hypnotherapy itself, you can go down a rabbit hole, right? There's hypnosis, there's there's hypnosis, hypnotherapy, regression, past life regression, spiritual regression, there's all of that kind of stuff, all the woo woo stuff. Did it all. Then I went to school to become an intimacy counselor because of what was coming up in session. And uh people were struggling a lot in certain areas of their life that I wanted to know more of. And there quite by accident again discovered breath work fell in love and I still do all of those things but >> as a Swiss Army knife. >> As a Swiss Army knife and I'm not done. I'm not done. When people ask me what it is that I do uh my kids if you ask my kids what does mommy do? They're like we don't know. They have no idea. >> And um if you ask my friends what I do, they say don't ask Folly what she does because she'll never stop talking. >> And if you ask me what I do, I don't know because I do whatever I'm fascinated by and I'm not done learning and growing. Like if you if you have me back in a year, I'll probably be doing something new and cool. >> I think a good answer for you, if you don't mind me saying, is you're growing. That's what you're doing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You're always growing. You're looking for more. And uh you're looking to learn and adapt and give back. >> Very much >> pretty amazing to hear. Uh how long does it take for someone to get hypnotized? Can you do that on us in two minutes? Like does that work? >> People ask that a lot. And >> we have to I was wondering are we talking about the same >> hypnotizing that you see in shows and that you see in like in Vegas they always have like these shows where they bring you up on stage and then this hypnosis what's it called? Hypnotist. >> Hypnotist. >> The hypnotist goes and you know he snaps his finger or he grabs the arm and says sleep and their head falls down. Is that what we were talking about? >> No. So >> for the record by the way that happened to you once. I'm saying this because I say that. >> Michael, thank you for exposing that. But yeah, I was in Vegas once and a friend dragged me to this show >> and out of the thousands of people in the audience, somehow I got called on and they brought me up on stage with like 10 people >> to this. >> It happened so fast it went up though, right? >> I a room with thousands of people and they came over. My hand was not up. >> What? >> Not at all. They came over like the other person in the stand that was calling on people and they walked over to me and they said, "Come on stage." I was like, "What?" I was so caught off guard. It just happened. So, I just went on stage. Next thing I know, I'm there and there's like uh 20 seats and 20 of us were on stage and this hypnotist guy was going to each of us and that's what he did. He basically like grabbed my shoulder and he's like, "Sleep." And I remember my head went down. I just don't remember if I was playing the part or if I really was hypnotized and I really fell asleep. I do know that I saw a video afterwards which I've since burned. This video is not not existed. We're going to find it. >> Yes. Um, it does not exist anymore, so don't ask to see it. Um, >> and we can just recreate it. >> Yeah. He made me do stuff that apparently I did and I'm quite embarrassed about it. But like, why did I do that at that moment? Was I really hypnotized or was I just like peer pressure cuz I was on stage and like people were expecting me to do it. So, I I don't remember the details, >> but that's my uh recollection of hypnosis. >> Love that. But here we're talking about it as a modality, I guess, right? something. Uh, >> so it operates on the same principles, but those people give people like me a bad name. I mean, I love a good hypnosis show, don't get me wrong. I will laugh with anybody else in the audience, but there's a there's a key factor that people don't think about when you go to a hypnosis show. You're right. He's going to call 20 people on the stage and then he's going to send 10 of them back off because there's a part of you, you cannot be hypnotized against your will. So, you're right, you were caught off guard, but some part of your will was there, right? If he would have told you to do something that you absolutely didn't want, I wouldn't have done it. >> Right? If he would have said, "Go rob a bank," >> you would have been like, "I don't think that that's going to work for me." Right? So, he's working on your sensibilities and he's testing. They're master manipulators. And >> so, they're like an illusionist in essence >> very much. And there's there's a fair amount of psychology in there. Like, we need to know that you're open and amendable. I have to say Jews are really good at being hypnotized, especially from Jews who davin three times a day because davining going into like a meditative trans state. We're so good at that. We're great at it. Also, anyone who lives in a system who's used to conforming, great at hypnosis, >> fantastic. It's not a bad thing. It's just something that a hypnotist will will happen to pick up on and know. Like hypnotizing people in the Jewish world, very easy versus if I go out somewhere else where there's a little more diversity, maybe a little bit more of a struggle. So, I don't do that kind of hypnosis. I'll be honest with you. I probably stink at it. It's the easiest kind of hypnosis to do and I probably would not be successful at it. I haven't tried, so I can't tell you because I don't believe in it. I believe in dignity. I believe in in promoting a person and and making a person feel good, not making a person feel manipulated. >> I I felt like I was degraded, you know? I felt like I was a prop that he used for his show and to give everybody there a good time. And these guys probably, like you said, they're just like uh it's the psychology behind it. They know that you're probably going to have certain boundaries that you won't go till, but these things you'll probably do. You'll conform and so forth. And that's probably what this whole show is about. So, tell me a little bit about your hypnosis. So, what are you talking about? What do you do? >> So, what I do is, well, before I was in hypnosis, I was in advertising and marketing for about six years. >> So, advertising is all hypnosis. Learning how to frame something to get you to want to buy it. I mean, you guys should know this, right? The way you frame something, the way you convince somebody without being overt about it. All the subliminal messaging and product placement, that is all a form of hypnosis. You have different parts of your mind operating at the same time. So you have your conscious mind, that's the mind that's thinking, that's planning, that's linear. But the most of your mind is not made up of your conscious mind. It's made up of your unconscious and subconscious minds. Three, right? We have unconscious, subconscious, and conscious. And I'm again I'm using let's call it baby terms like pseudocientific terms but it's what the majority of the people understand. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. You're welcome. So the >> do more of that. >> Yeah. Okay. I will. Um the subconscious mind is is in charge of like 90% of your of your functioning, 90% of your life. So there's a reason that when you drive home from work, you're not thinking of the route that you're taking, right? But you'll probably go down the same roads again and again. You don't have to think about it. That's your subconscious mind. That's your subconscious programming. If you can tap into your subconscious programming, you're going to have 90% of your brain backing the change you want to make versus your conscious mind, which is only 10% of the change you want to be making. So, if you're going to therapy and you're like, I want to stop smoking and you're doing that with 10% of your brain, great. But if 90% of your brain is not on board, then you're fighting a losing battle. So, with hypnosis, what we get to do with hypnotherapy, and again, that's the difference between hypnosis and hypnotherapy. Hypnotherapy utilizes hypnosis in a therapeutic context where we get you to relax to kind of we don't get rid of your conscious mind. You're fully aware the whole time. You know what's happening, but we have like a dual stream of consciousness where we can bring both minds on board at the same time. And a skilled facilitator is going to use your conscious mind to help you navigate your subconscious mind. So people always the one of the common questions I would get when working with people is will I remember? Will I be asleep? They really don't know. I'm like, "No, no. We are having a conversation. Your eyes will be closed most likely because it's going to be easier for you to tap in to what's going on internally. You're not going to be as distracted by my facial expressions, by the room around you." Um, but in case you don't believe me, I'll record the whole session, you know, and I always give that to people at the end. I'm no longer in private practice, but that's what I used to do. And they're always amazed. They're like, "I didn't feel hypnotized. Like, did it work? I remember everything." And I would say, "Yeah, you're supposed to." But the key is that we get them into that open state where they're bringing forth patterns, patterns that got them stuck into this place to begin with. So it's very easy to say, I would like to stop smoking. It's another thing to be able to say, I know why I started smoking because there was peer pressure. And to me, belonging, I always had anxiety about belonging and that's what got me to start smoking. Like do you think your body is going to want to give up smoking if you still have the same anxiety that got you into smoking to begin with? So if you have anxiety about belonging and you have peer pressure and you still have it today, 40 years later, your smoking is your lifeline. So you you might know that it's very bad for your health, but your unconscious, your subconscious doesn't know that it's 40 years down the road. They still think that you're an awkward teenager in high school who wants to fit in. And they're not going to let you give up cigarettes so fast, right? >> But in hypnotherapy, we can get there. So >> what what is hypnotic about it? It sounds very much like therapy. >> It is therapy, >> right? It's it's strictly therapy, though, like the purity of what therapy does. Yes. which is really gets into the deep subconscious of why you're behaving this way, right? >> And the only way to undo it is to go back to the roots, right? And cut it off at the roots. So again, where does hypnosis? Because if I would come to you a as a hypnosis person, hypnotherapy, I keep forgetting what you're calling it. Whatever, >> whatever it is, and we would be doing what we're doing right now and having a conversation and speaking. >> By the time I left, I'd be like, "So, where was the hypnosis?" Like, "Where was the transit?" for me. I I would be expecting a pendulum to be swinging in front of me and to like, you know, and I go into a trance and I don't remember it afterwards. Otherwise, it's just therapy, which is fine. I'm we're big fans of therapy. I think therapy is great and it does a lot of wonders. But again, where's that line that we're crossing into hypnosis? That's a specialty beyond just therapy. >> Great question. So, couple of answers to this. Number one, yes, in a typical hypnotic session, hypnotherapy session, you are going to have your eyes closed. We'll we will start with an induction. We will get you into that trans state. So, it has all of the hallmarks of we're going to count down. We're going to have you visualize. It's kind of like a guided meditation to get you in. You may feel some weird body sensations once you're in there, right? You may uh hit upon memories that in a million years you would never have thought to bring up to your therapist, right? Because the the traditional thing that I'll have people come with is anxiety. We we live in a world epidemic of anxiety. Is that the most common thing people come to you for? >> Probably. Yeah, >> just general anxiety. >> I think that today everybody when something's not working well, people are like, I have anxiety. It's like actually you have a lot of other things, but yeah, let's let's talk about your anxiety first. So, they'll say, well, I'm anxious because of A, B, and C. But then in hypnotherapy, they may actually bring up a story that is so, let's say, decades in the past that they never would have thought like, oh, that's where my anxiety actually began. Anxiety is a learned behavior. It's a learned coping mechanism, right? Babies don't have anxiety. Sometimes you'll see kids develop anxiety already early ages. Usually, if a kid develops anxiety at an early age, we'll know why. We'll know what happened in the kid's life. Today, especially, parents are hyper aware. But kids in general, they're awesome. They're they're free spirits. So, when does anxiety begin? A kid struggling with anxiety doesn't often know enough to know that they're struggling with anxiety. They start dealing with it much later in life, but then you're you're peeling back layers and layers and layers. It's trying it's like trying to cut down a tree that's been growing for a hundred years and now it's it's dead. You know, it's it's ill. It's destroying your backyard. You have to get rid of it. But cutting down a tree is a very long process versus if you could time travel. If you can go back to when the tree was a seed and you can pull the seed out of the ground and then you can come back here and the tree is gone and there are no scars. So hypnotherapy is like time travel really because the subconscious mind doesn't know how old you are. Doesn't have a concept of time. It it experiences everything as now. So wounding that has never had a chance to find closure. You're still struggling with that and you're not sure why because in your brain your conscious mind thinks that was 10 years ago, that was 20 years ago. Your subconscious is like this is still happening for me now. So it is therapy. And the second answer to your question is when I was in college wanting to go to forensic psychology, the the world of therapy 20 years ago did not at all look like the world of therapy looks today. So if I'm telling you things that you're like, "This sounds familiar. This sounds like stuff that I would do at any workshop or in a therapist office these days." Yeah, these days. But 20 years ago, that is not at all what therapy looked like. It was much colder. It was much more clinical. It was much more straightforward talk, >> right? just talk. But but if you research and if you go back to to Freud and Young and the founders of modern day therapy and psychology, they practice what is more aligned with hypnosis or hypnotherapy. >> So there's more synergy now between the two than ever, which is why they can be conflated with each other. Correct. >> Because they really are in a lot of ways very very similar. >> Yeah. >> And and what's this breath work that is a part of this hypnotherapy? Is is that included in hypnotherapy or is that separate? >> That is separate. >> That's a separate thing. Yep. So before we get to the breath work, I want to go back to this hypnotherapy because I I have to tell you I've been told for so many years I am I was a huge smoker for many years. >> Two packs a day. Okay, today I'm still smoking but more casually. I'm not smoking, you know, I am vaping all the time. So I am addicted to my vape. Like really addicted to it. Like I need to have it in my hands at all times. >> You're sitting on it now? >> I'm s You see it's next to me. I've been noticing >> I know where it is. I have to has to be present amongst me. Has to be within arms reach, arms length. Now, I've been told by people, go to a hypnotherapist. Like, they can knock this out of you. And I was always skeptical. I still am. I don't believe anybody has the magic wand to just make it go away. It's going to take a lot of work. It's going to take a lot of work. And I don't know if I'm prepared to do that kind of work. And quite frankly, I like my smoking. I need it. I think it's, you know, it helps me. Okay. So, I've been told go to hypnotherapist. They'll, you know, it works. They've done it. Many people have gotten off it. People told me to read this book. What was this famous book about smoking, Michael? The famous book. >> I know what you're talking about. >> The Allan car book. What's it called? The famous smoking book. You know the book I'm talking about. They sold millions and millions of copies. One of the most famous books for people to And people swear by. They read the book and they stopped smoking. And they stopped smoking. It's a real thing. And I read the book. >> Oh, did you? >> I read the book. >> And you didn't stop smoking? >> You better believe I read it. I didn't I smoked an extra pack the next day. >> Did you read the whole book? >> It did the opposite effect on me. I read the whole book. >> Do you have dyslexia? >> No. Let me read. >> I'm just teasing you. >> No, I read the whole book. It didn't work on me. So, I wanted to try anything. So, if I were to come to you as for hypnotherapy, >> what would that look like? What What would you start? I understand it's probably hours and hours of a session, I imagine. How long is a typical session with with some >> Every hypnotherapist is going to facilitate differently. I have found that my sweet spot is a 90-minute session. >> 90 minutes. >> Y >> but it's a one time. You don't have to come back again and again. It's not like therapy where you'd be coming back on a weekly basis, but I would say a couple, think about a couple of sessions. >> Couple sessions, 90 minutes each. >> And what would you frame those sessions around for for Have you gotten people with smoking addictions that have come to you? >> So, not It's funny, the two main things that hypnosis is known for is smoking and weight release, >> right? >> And I'm just like, please don't come to me for any of those. Do I look like somebody who knows what they're talking about when it comes to smoking or losing weight? Like, I'm on 100 pounds, you know? I have I have worked with people who have had some sort of addiction. Smoking I'm trying to remember if I ever worked with a smoker. Um >> would it matter though? Like >> it wouldn't it wouldn't right. >> Um >> you could technically aren't there the same like mechanics of >> I'm I'm comfortable with stepping away and you guys you know she's never done it before. She said she's never done >> I've worked with other addictions. I've worked with alcohol addictions. I've worked with you know sex addictions or >> let's go with alcohol for a moment. Let's go with that. I'm I can consider myself an alcoholic too. Um I I don't drink. Invite me next time. >> Don't drink it crazy about over the weekends. I'm a weekend drinker. I'm a we but I drink a fair >> I mean half the Jews are alcoholics. >> I think so. By the way, I think most Jews are alcoholics. Let's be honest. >> During the week and we drink during the weekends. >> What's that? >> We smoke during the week and we drink during the weekends. >> I have it all figured out. >> All figured out. >> It's the perfect system. Um and it's been working for me for many years, you know, and I quite frankly I don't want to give it up. I feel like I look forward to my weekends. Um, so I I'm I'm a drinker and I'm probably going a little bit overboard and I want to stop or I want to totally cut it out. So I come to you and let's have a session. >> Let's practice for a few minutes. Just like what are some of those qualifying things you'll do with me? >> The first thing I need to know is do why are you here? Like if you if you're here because your wife wants you to stop smoking, >> go home. >> Fair. >> Just go home. >> Fair. >> I I can't work on some That's why I chose not to work with children or teenagers even though they are phenomenal at this work. their minds are so open as it is, but I just felt that they're not forced. Yeah. They're not coming here because they want to be here. Their buy in is not as high. So if someone says, "No, I need to do this." And remember, most of the time when they're coming to me, it's cuz they've already tried everything else, which means that they've already been willing to put in motivation, they have effort, but something isn't sticking. So if someone's saying, "Well, I don't know. I just heard that it's cool and I want to try it." Don't come to me. Don't come to me because I want to know that your willpower is there. I want to know that your motivation is there. We're writing that. Okay? We're we're facilitating to find what's that stopping point. What's that place that you can't get past? So someone like you, you're probably not a good candidate. You don't want it right now. Right? And that's fine, right? >> I think we all need our healthy dosage of distraction and addiction, whatever it is. Got it. Right? I don't think that every vice is an addiction. >> I think we all have some people just watch TV. That's their thing. Um anything can be it's that's fine. Um, what we would do is, okay, if once I establish that your willpower is in, your motivation is in, I would likely add something to it. Like, if I could get you to stop smoking, what else would you have? That's important. Like, why do you want to stop? >> It's I want to be healthy, >> right? How important is your health? Tell me about your health. Why is that so important to you? >> Well, living is the most important thing. >> Why? What is it about life? And I know it sounds like a dumb question, but tell me more. >> Yeah. I'm scared of dying. >> Okay. >> I don't know what's going on on the other side. So, I feel like right now it's better to be here. Mhm. >> So I want to live. >> I also want my kids >> that's a good motivator. >> Yeah. I want my kids to be have me around as long as possible. I shudder to think what God forbid any kid his life would look like, her life would look like without a parent. It's I I would never want a kid to go through that >> and that's very scary. >> So that would be my second step, right? Establishing your desire to change. What are your motivating factors? Your motivating factors are really important because if I take away the cigarette from you, what am I putting in its place? >> More fatherhood, more amazing moments with your kid. uh you know, health, great life. Right. Right. >> But I know all this already. >> You know it, but I don't know it because I'm your facilitator. I don't know that about you. >> You know, I don't know if I've ever said that out loud. I think that a lot of that is living in my subconscious. Like right now, you're pulling this out. I'm hearing myself speak about what it is that I'm looking for instead of the cigarette. But >> hearing yourself say that out loud, I know it sounds almost like this is dumb. Anyone, this is obvious. Yeah. >> Yeah. But you've never said it out loud. And do you know that the best person to hypnotize you is yourself? Because your brain believes your voice more than it believes anybody else's voice. Of course, your brain hears myself, right? And your brain hears your voice more than anyone else's voice that it hears. And if you're telling yourself all day, "I'm stupid. I'm dumb. I can't accomplish this. I'm an idiot." Yeah. You You're hypnotizing yourself all day long. So when you can articulate your desire, it's not enough to just know it. Say it out loud. Let your own ears hear it. That's important. And then you just clued me in. So when I'm going to hypnotize you, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to take you into a hypnotic state, get you super relaxed, get you nice and open. Do you have to be relaxed in order to be hypnotized? You do not. Common misconception. I hypnotize people with their eyes open all the time who are super tense, but it's nice when they can relax. And then we'll usually do something called a regression. There are so many different um facilitations that I can do, right? I can actually have you have a conversation with a cigarette. A lot of that kind of work. >> Interesting. Yeah. Talking about stopping while over a cigarette. >> Yeah. Well, you know, even in your in your mind, holding up the vape, having a conversation with the vape. Um there are so many cool facilitations we can do. Regression is part of them. Regression would mean time travel. Let's go back in time. Let's find out like I would tell you also, you know, that feeling right before you need to grab a smoke, right before you have to hit it. >> Yeah. >> Hold on to that feeling. At what level, you know, scale of 1 to 10, how do you feel it? >> It's it's powerful. >> It's powerful. >> It's very strong. >> Yeah. So, if you were like a scale six, I would be like, amp it up. Get it up to an eight. Get it up to a nine. I want you feeling it. >> I'm there right now. >> Great. >> I'm at an eight right now. >> Fantastic. I would take that feeling and I would have you use that feeling as an anchor to go back to the first time in your life that that feeling ever showed up for you. Again, talking about this from our conscious minds is one thing, but when you're in that super relaxed state, you may get a memory just pop to the surface and it may not be something that you expect. >> I'm remembering now the very first time I smoked a cigarette. >> That's what's coming up for me right now, right? >> I don't remember the first time the feeling of needing that cigarette. I was about to light it up like >> I'm getting now. I remember the first time ever that I picked up a cigarette and I smoked. I remember who I was with. I remember where I was. I remember everything. >> Oh my god. I remember the room that I was in. I remember where the two beds were. There it was in a bedroom and there was like five of us in the room. I remember sitting on the bed and I remember one person passing it around to everybody. I remember the entire scene. It's crazy. >> And what stands out most to you about that whole scene from like an emotional place? Like what's the feeling in that room? The feeling was uh exploring um doing something rebellious but doing it with other people. So feeling feeling um like it's it's okay because other people are doing it as well with me. Um and I was young. I was probably I was probably uh 15 or 16 years old at the time. And I remember the people that were with me in the room, most of whom I'm I have nothing to do with anymore, but I I remember the whole thing. I remember everything. So our next step if this was a real session is I would get as much detail detail as possible about the room. I would get as much detail as possible about you at that age. What you're thinking, what you're feeling, why this room is important, why these people are important, why this decision is important. That would be just one stop on the journey. Right after that, when I feel as the facilitator that I've gotten as much as I need from this room, I would probably take you to another place. I would ask you go back to that feeling of wanting a cigarette. >> My f It's coming to me now. >> Go for it. >> It's coming to me. >> You feeling this, Michael? >> He knows I'm loving it. No, no, it's really coming to me. I don't see private clients anymore. I do so much beyond hypnosis. This is not where I thought this conversation is going to go. And I'm having a fabulous time. Keep going. >> So, I remember the first time I bought my first pack. I guess that was the moment that I felt like I I needed it. It was in Brooklyn in in in Burough Park. Not Bar Park. It was like Bar Park like in the middle over there. >> Uh but 18th Avenue. >> I know. 18th Avenue by Kensington with a I saw it in my mind as you're talking >> and I and I smoked my first menson's pizza. >> Yes. Yeah. But a little further down towards the park, you know where the park >> Avenue F. >> I don't remember the avenues anymore. It's so long. Yeah. Okay. >> But I remember the park. There was this park there >> and I bought the pack from a gas station. I remember where I bought it from. >> No, no, because it's a known there's a known bodega over there. >> I couldn't be in the store. I must have bought it from there. I bought it by myself. I was on my own. >> This was after the trip. And I I experienced it and I'm like, "Okay, now I I need to buy a pack, I guess. I guess that's the next appropriate thing to do." And I went to the park. was at night and I lit it up and I and I smoked it by myself. That was I I remember standing there in the park. I remember the park looks. I don't remember much else around it, but I guess that was the very first time I felt like I need to smoke now. Um I'm a smoker, I guess. And I was like 17 years old or something like that at the time. >> So, you just said something to me that's really interesting. You just went to I'm a smoker. >> Yeah. >> I guess. And you said that with I don't know if you heard it the way he enunciated those words like I'm a smoker. >> I'm saying it now with regret. >> Yes. I'm saying it now in a way of like unfortunately I guess I'm a smoker. >> But that's not how you said it then. >> No. No. I don't think that's how I felt. >> Moment of like of excitement. >> I'm a smoker. >> Yeah. I had something new in my life. >> Yes. >> I had something new and something exciting. Um a new definition and something to look forward to. I guess just another ancillary thing that I brought into my life. >> Yeah. Except it didn't say when you said I'm a smoker. It wasn't ancillary. It was an identity. >> Yeah. >> I am a smoker. >> Right. And you're describing an age that I can only assume a lot of kids around that age, they struggle with an identity. I don't know who I am. I don't know where I belong. I don't know how I identify myself with. I remember being 15 and our high school principal came into the room into our class talking about SATs. >> And I remember having this moment of panic being like, I have to take my SATs. I I am a child. I don't know what I want to do when I grow up. How does everybody know what they want to go to college for? Like, I'm supposed to decide that now. I remember having that crisis at 15. and to be 15 and say, "But I know what I am. I'm a smoker." There's a moment there. So again, I'm just making an assumption in a in a >> I don't remember if exactly that's how it was, but it makes sense. I have no reason to object to it. >> So the thing is when you say, "I don't know for sure if that's how it was." So remember, your conscious your subconscious mind does not understand linear time. It takes a bunch of different moments and kind of hodge podge it like mod podge hodge podge, I don't know, puts them together and they create like this new belief system or this new image of you. It's not one moment in time. So in a hypnosis session, I would take you probably to anywhere between three and five moments in time. So you just gave me two of them. The bedroom with your friends, buying the pack on your own, having this moment. I'm a smoker now. Right. And I would probably put just without making any assumptions, I would probably be taking notes like when when you said I'm a smoker now, I probably would have written those words down and circled them and being like this is a piece. Probably would have asked you a couple of questions trying to get to more on it. There's a belief system there. What were you struggling with? What do you mean like I'm a smoker now? There are so many other things. >> I wasn't happy in yeshiva. >> There you go. I knew this was coming. >> I wasn't happy. I remember that. I remember when where I was at like 17. It was like my fourth or fifth yeshiva that I was in. And I didn't want to be there anymore. I just wanted to get out of the system entirely which I did by the way at the end by 17. I actually got out and uh that's when I ultimately ended up by Levitans where my life completely changed and transformed for the better. Um give everybody Levitton a lot of credit. Um he really got me going but I was struggling then. I guess that was for me my new friend. I was very isolated then I remember because I wasn't like the other boys in yeshiva. I was very different. Um and I just didn't feel like I belonged and I guess I needed that that new companion and that was my companion. That was my safe spot. >> Yep. That makes perfect sense. Of course you don't want to give that up. That has been with you. It's been your best friend since you were 15. >> It's all I know. It's the my one of my longest companions I've had. >> Right. That would be a terrible thing. Imagine taking your best friend who's been with you since childhood who came and saved your life at one of the most difficult loss period. >> He was there for me. He was there for you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, imagine taking your best friend and being like, I'm done with you now. That would be a terrible thing to do to your best friend. >> I'm not that kind of person. >> No, you're not. >> I'm not disloyal. >> Right. So, we would have to f now that we've established that, we would create a whole new relationship to the cigarette. What we would probably do is we would redefine the cigarette because what we now know the cigarette or smoking is is not it's not about smoking. It's about identity. It's about belonging, right? It's about being safe. All of those things. All of a sudden, the cigarette or the vape might take on a new appearance. It might not look like a cigarette anymore. It might not look like a vape. It might look like uh the job you have right now or the car that you love. I don't know. You probably in your adult life have certain things that give you that kind of pleasure, right? Like you know your spouse or your kids. You probably can look into the eyes. You said, right? Go back to the beginning of the session. I can't believe we're doing the live session on air. >> Are you building me after this? I should >> Michael, could we get Prime Source, please to sponsor this? >> By the way, I would pay for this. Literally, I I feel like honored. >> I did not see this going this direction either, by the way. I had no idea. >> I still don't even know your background, which I'm dying to know now. You're more of, but keep going. It's >> So, what I would do right now is you mentioned you have a daughter, right? >> Yes, I have two daughters. >> Yeah. So, I would say I want you to imagine your daughters, right? I don't know if you have sons. >> I have one. But it was funny because when you said my kids and you said he and then you right away jumped to she, which tells me that there's at least one of the two daughters that you have something special about and you don't have to say that live on air because your kids don't have to know which one, but there's something about your daughters, right? Um I know we each I have a couple of kids myself and I have I love them all. I love them all equally but differently. So just putting that on air. But the one that you were thinking about, you have the cigarette in one hand at 17 and at your age right now, you're looking at your daughter, daughters, daughter and you know, daughters and son and they give you that same sense of belonging. They give you that same sense of purpose, mission. I am a father. I am not just a father. Absolutely. I'm your father. >> Right. And all of a sudden, you can hold them both in both hands and realize the cigarette isn't the cigarette >> anymore. It's not about the cigarette. It's about the fulfillment. It's about the purpose. And there's another thing. Again, this is not going to be something that I would do here because we're not in that state. But sometimes in the state, I will say if you're holding the cigarette in your hand, which we now know is not a cigarette, it's your best friend, right? I want you to imagine you can ask the best friend, "How old do you think I am?" And just wait for a response. And without fail, I think in 99.9% of the times the answer that the cigarette or addiction or problem anxiety will give is, I don't know, you're seven, you're 17. And it's like, no, I'm I'm not. But your subconscious mind doesn't know that. The crutch that you've been holding on to who thinks he's saving your life doesn't know. And we can educate the cigarette and say, you know, I'm not 17 anymore. I'm close to 40, right? And you know what else I have? I'm not any yeshiva that I'm unhappy in. I'm I'm a father. I have a really successful life. Look, these are my daughters. And you get your cigarette to meet your daughters. And and all the belongings that I was searching for at 17, I have it now. Do you see how they look at me? Do you see how they love me? And there's a moment there where that that transfers over where the cigarette realizes, you know, you're safe now. You have that. You don't need me that that way anymore. And then I would probably ask you, again, we're condensing this super quickly. I would let you come to those conclusions on your own. I wouldn't give them to you. But if I ask you just right now, remember that feeling that I had you tap into the needing to smoke? Is it still there? >> You're not going to believe me. >> Slightly less. >> Yeah, I am going to believe you cuz I know >> slightly less. As you're talking, I'm almost like upset at this like the cigarette is is betraying me. >> And we had a relationship. You did. And and the thing is though that the cigarette is still in a relationship with you. >> Cuz I'm not a child anymore. >> You're not. >> I am not that same 17-year-old boy. >> No, but you still have a relationship with the cigarette. Cuz imagine if the what the cigarette wanted was for you to be safe, to feel like you had a mission and a purpose. The cigarette still wants that for you. Now that the cigarette knows that your mission and purpose is your kids, the cigarette says, "Okay, how much energy a day? How much money, right? How many puffs? How many breaths of air were you giving that cigarette a day? The vape a day. And now the vape knows that you have a better place to put all of that air, all of that money, all of that attention. And the cigarette says, "Let me help you. I've only ever wanted to help you. Let's take every breath of air that you ever gave me into saying I love you to your kid." Right? So, yeah, the dial is going to go down. And like I said, my first session of hypnosis, it took my anxiety from like a hundred down to whatever 30, 25. took, you know, it didn't happen in one session. But if I could get a smoker's dial down from a 10 >> down to a six, >> that >> that's a win. >> That's that's a huge win. And then you'll come back for another session in a month or >> can you please stop stripping me of my friends? I don't want to bring alcohol into this equation because I don't I'm not ready to give him up just yet. Okay. He's very important to me. >> My alcohol is a her, but okay. I mean, don't do not tell me that tequila is not a woman. >> I don't know. Is it? I mean there's >> what kind of women tendencies does. By the way, tequila is probably one of the more popular um go-to alcoholic drinks today amongst the masses. I think it's a universally drink >> mostly because Costco came out with a cheap version that is excellent. >> Every brand is excellent. I think tequila is one of those drinks that I mean it's a little, you know, better than others, but they're all like vodka. Also, vodka is very palatable no matter what kind of vodka it is. >> I'm going to stick with what I know. >> Except the pesak vodka. That's horrendous. You ever had the pesak vodka? >> I'm not a vodka drinker. Oh god. >> Someone taught me something really cool. He said, "When you go to a party, just say I want the most expensive drink. I don't care what it is. Scotch, bourbon, tequila, vodka. Just give me the one that's the priciest one. I want to try that." >> I don't know. I'm not such a like alcohol snob. >> I don't really care what it is. Drink pretty much anything. But um you know, there are people that are really fine-tuned when it comes to like certain alcohol. Like they can taste the difference. And they also like like I have a brother-in-law. He savors every sip of like the scotch or the bourbon. I'm like I just down it. like how are you enjoying that? But some people are have very strong >> I do like what you said though that you're not an alcoholic if you're drinking on Chabas. It's a vice. It's an escape. It's >> it's on parties, events, and and weekends typically. >> So remember that when we started this conversation, I teased you by saying, "Well, the cigarette and the alcohol are just a continuation of the same spectrum." Now that we turned your cigarette dial down, I wonder what would happen automatically with the alcohol. Very often, they're called coorbidities. They happen together, right? Right? An addiction is an addiction. An escape is an escape. Sometimes we're escaping from the same thing, right? It's not only about the smoking. It's about what we're escaping from, what we need. Alcohol makes a lot of sense. If you're looking for belonging or you're feeling not so safe in a social environment, alcohol takes the edge away. The minute we have that, the minute we've anchored into your daughters, your your purpose, your your reason for being. You may not feel that the next time you're at a social event. Yeah. Now, again, I'm not against drinking. I'm not against even smoking casually, but imagine if it didn't control you. You can still have the vape in your pocket, >> but you no longer need to know where it is every second of the day. >> Dial it down a little bit. That's it. And not only that, even if you dial it up, you're now in control of the dial in a way that you weren't before. >> Correct. At least I'm have awareness. I know what the story here is. You know, I'm writing it, not someone. >> You're going to text me within the next two weeks being like, "What have you done?" >> Really? I love it. By the way, I have to say, fally, it goes back to my initial point that I was making. I feel like this was therapy. >> It is. >> It's a fancy word, hypnosis that you're adding into it. >> Hypnotherapy. >> It's hypnotherapy. But a good therapist should be doing this, unpacking it for you in a certain way to understand where this trauma originated from and why you chose to go down that path, right? That's what a therapist really does. >> Yeah. But believe it or not, the word trauma is a buzz word today. It wasn't 20 years ago when I was in college. >> Yeah. like almost I I think I went through my whole I don't know quite a chunk of college without ever you know what >> when I was 21 years old I wrote my second novel and >> second novel >> you wrote a novel >> I wrote three >> three novels >> my first is my first is Miracle Ride the book on >> what genre >> I don't know whatever I was in the mood of writing at that >> was like fantasy or like >> no so my science >> fiction my second novel is the one that no one ever heard of it's called Invisible Me and I wanted a challenge I wanted to tell a story from the perspective of someone who couldn't tell a story. So, the main character is a selective mute. She doesn't speak. So, I spent four months being a selective mute, just not speaking. >> You got into character. >> I got into character. My husband loved it. >> I'm sure he did. >> Yeah. And uh I didn't intend to do it. It was just I got so absorbed in the main character, you know, not speaking that for hours after writing every day, I just felt like I couldn't talk because I was so in her mind. So, she's the main she's the narrator of the story. She's telling the story, but she's locked. She can't speak. And she got this way because of trauma. She went through something that basically shut her down and she couldn't speak after. >> She wasn't born a mute, >> right? It's called selective mute. She's capable of speaking. There's nothing wrong with her, but it's an anxiety disorder. And I studied this. I went I went crazy for like a couple of months and dug up everything. I had uh two selective mutes that I knew grew growing up. So, I already was exposed to this concept and I was very fascinated by it. And I was in college at the time. I was studying psychology. I wanted to know more and I wrote a novel from the perspective of a selective mute and again she was selectively mute due to trauma. I think in the entire manuscript in the entire book I don't think that the word trauma uh appears ever. I think recently I searched because I had said it to somebody and I said I actually have to go and check. Maybe it's there once, maybe it's there twice. >> Crazy. >> Imagine writing a book like that today. It's impossible. >> Without the word trauma on every other page. >> Yeah. Today, we're so cognitive of what traumas are and what they what it's capable of, >> right? >> It's so vast today. It's so it's out there. I think therapy, and we've said this before in the podcast, Michael, is much more um acceptable. People are more receptive to it today than they ever were. Like our parents, grandparents were almost embarrassed if they had a family member in therapy and like, "Oh, don't tell anybody." Right? It was like a secret, you know? But now it's like you're not sending your kid to therapy for something. Like, why not? Like, you know, if there's, especially if there's something slightly wrong, grab the bull by the horns. Take care of what it is. Get ahead of it. Prevention over treatment, get ahead of it. But let me shift gears. >> Going back to your question. Yeah. >> You're saying that this feels like therapy to you. Yes. But 20 years ago when I was in college, >> this wasn't this wasn't therapy. >> This was an anomaly. >> For me, watching the >> It was a fancy word. It was hypnosis. >> Yeah. But watching the progression of what therapy has become, I'm like, you realize that these techniques that I've been practicing for years that once upon a time were known as hypnotherapy is now making its way into mainstream therapy, which is >> could it be that therapy also became much more advanced because more people started opening up. So there was more data coming in and we're able to analyze things more and therefore the the therapy the remedies started also improving because now we see what is really going on and it's just become a much more dialogue around it. There's more dialogue around it than ever. So now we're becoming more sophisticated and in what to do. >> There's more dialogue and there's something else. Not just that we're another generation further, right? It's I'm noticing that today a lot of therapists today not not used to be therapists. It's their second career. So when I was a kid, you graduated high school and you had to decide what you were going to do for college. Advanced learners, people that were going back to college later in life for either their second degree or even for their first degree. You're seeing a lot more of that today. Women in their 50s, right, who have already married off their kids, they have grandchildren, and they're empty nesting, and they're like, "I think I should go to school." >> Yeah. >> You're seeing a whole new wave of therapists that are only starting at a later age in life when they have more embodied wisdom. >> Yes. >> They're coming in not from academia, which again, if you're 22 years old and you're studying to become a social worker, that's awesome. But what life experience do you have to back that up? >> Exactly. Today the therapists with much more life experience they're much more colorful they've raised kids they've sang you know shama with these kids like it's different they're bringing in something new into the therapy there's more there >> any uh Jewish sources for the therapy hypnotherapy concept is there a place for this in the religion that we could trace back to and say that this was something that was done that's common that or is this like a new thing for everybody including Jews like it's it's not anything pertaining specifically to us. >> Um, you know, I like what says, you know, there's nothing new under the sun. There's always it's just new ways of talking about old things. I mean, I think that I don't have a source, but as you're talking, I'm like, well, what about Shama? It says, you know, like, so we're talking about your heart. We're talking we're talking about your head. You're talking about your heart, >> right? You're talking about your your money. It's all in shama. So, your money is your energy, right? What do you spend your money on? What do you what do you give value? What do you value? So, we're talking about your heart, your mind, your values. >> So, isn't isn't God telling you serve me? And and me is not this person in the sky. It's serve creation. Serve creator. Serve alignment of of and to and with all things with every part of your being. And so, isn't that what we do? We're bringing your heart, your mind, your soul, your values, all of this on board. >> Fascinating. Uh, you know that we're going to get to this breath work thing because I really I've heard a lot about it. We've all have. >> We all have that friend who's bragging, I did breath work. I did it. Like, what? Go away. Go away. Nobody Nobody cares. >> And we say it because we've never done it, so we don't care. I've never done it. >> So, I would, you know, um, dismiss someone who came to me and said they did it. >> Do it. Yeah. >> Here's the question. What the heck is breath work? What is it really? And, uh, get ready to give me a session because so far I'm one for one. >> I'm ready to go two for two. Go ahead. Um what is breath work? So breath work is something that you're already doing your whole life. You're already breathing. You're already very good at it. Breath work is a way to utilize your breath mindfully to get you to where you want to go to achieve optimal states of health, well-being, mental wellness, emotional wellness, spiritual wellness. the to me I don't have an elevator pitch for what breath work is which is ironic because in this community I've probably do been doing it one of the longest again before breath work was a buzzword I started with breath work in 2017 that was like when I said I did breath work people are like I'm already breathing what why do I have to pay you for that >> yeah right >> and what's the connection between breathing and mental um health and between um you know getting better emotionally how does that correlate with me breathing more or less It doesn't make sense. Doesn't add up. >> Right? So, the way I I my elevator pitch for breath work is that it's another way of saying the word diet. And if you've ever been on a diet, you will know that diets are not just about losing weight. They're about being mindful about what you put into your mouth, what you put into your body. Now, there's no one diet. There's many diets. What do you want to achieve? If you tell me what you want to achieve, we'll we'll create a diet, especially for your kind of blood type, your weight. Do you want to lose weight? Do you want to gain weight? Do you want to muscle up? Right? Breath work is the same thing. So, most people have a very narrow view of breath work. They're like, I went to this thing and there was music and I cried and I there was screaming in the room and I'm like, yay. >> Sounds like madness. Sounds like a bunch of uh >> if you want to try that, I can get you to do that. I can easily >> I mean, it sounds like a good activity to do recreationally once in a while. Yeah. >> Right. That's not what breath work is. It's what it could be. Right. But there are so many utilizations for breath work. I I teach a breath I actually teach two trainings. I teach a hypnotherapy training where I license facilitators in hypnotherapy and I teach a breath work training. Both of them are year-long training. >> So you're now training trainers. >> Yeah. >> Oh, nice. >> Yeah. So when when when I see people who do breath work in the world today, it's like okay, what was your training? There are people who took breath work for three days and they're like, I'm a breath work facilitator. I trained for three days. My students train for over a year. So again, what does breath work mean? Depends who you ask. Depends what you're hoping to do. So when you asked about how does it pertain to health? Like what does it mean about all of these things? So, I'll give you a really, really good piece that I think explains it for a lot of people. Mel Gibson. Okay. When I was 16, the Passion of the Christ came out and everybody was talking about the Passion of the Christ because, you know, we're Jews, we worry about these things. >> It was very political. >> Very political. Like, do we have to worry about puggrums? Right. Exactly. So, I didn't watch the Passion of the Christ, but I remember people talking about it. And I remember an interview that Mel Gibson gave very shortly thereafter when he won a lot of awards and people had asked him for his secret. His secret to like being an amazing actor and he said, "I don't have a secret. I'm not acting." He said, >> "Was he in the movie?" >> I think >> he directed. >> He directed it. >> Yeah. Jim Kavasel, I can't pronounce the last name. He was the main actor. >> But Mel is an amazing actor in general. Yeah. >> And you know that for years I doubted myself. I'm like, did I really hear Mel say that or I just made that up? Hypnotic recollections. Right. So, about a month ago or two months ago, I went and YouTubed this. I'm like, did Mel Gibson ever say this? I found it. I found the clip where he says it. So, it was him and he said, "I'm not acting. I'm not acting." He says, "If you notice, every emotion has a certain breath attached to it." Right? People who are crying very often go, >> "Right, yes. Shortness of breath." >> There's a there's a hiccup there, right? If you do this enough, you're going to start your heart's going to start racing, >> right? And then laughter is the opposite, right? It's >> it's outwards, >> right? It's >> it's it's the opposite, right? Um fear is >> and then they hold it. There's an in and freeze. There's almost no breath. Um joy or laughter is well, it's not laughter. It's joy. It's like ah it's the sigh. It's this ease. That's what joy is. So he says if you know that that every breath, every emotion has a different breath. reverse engineer this. So, on a scene where fear is called for, we're going to breathe like we're afraid. Within five minutes, everybody is sweating and their hearts are pounding and we have everybody in the room in the middle of a panic attack. And then we read our lines and we're not acting. We are really scared. Like, you can see the sweat beating on their brow. And I I heard that at 16 and it's always stayed with me. So what breath work is is a way to use our breath mindfully to accomplish pretty much any state in the body. So most of the people who talk about breath work talk about it in like trauma release experience. That's what it's most known for. So we'll get you breathing in a certain way. We're going to use very specific music. Putting together the music playlist for a breath work um breath work session is an art in and of itself. We get you breathing a certain way and at a certain pace and very shortly thereafter, like within 7 to 10 minutes, you're bringing up memories. You're crying about things that you didn't know you can cry about. You're laughing about you're just generating emotions that have been stuck in your system for decades. I mean, I I'll give you something crazy because you're looking at me like, "What does this mean?" With women, very often, I will have women go into labor. They're not pregnant, but they're going to feel contractions. Very often, these women have had epidurals. So, they're in the middle of a natural cyclical process in their body where their body is giving them pain and contractions because they're cycling them through a process. They gave themselves an epidural which basically numbed out that process. Great. I'm all for pain relief, whatever it is that you need to do. The problem is that that pain has a purpose. It's supposed to get you through to the other end of that that cycle. If you numbed out the pain, there's a part of your brain that never got the message that that cycle has completed. So, there's an open cycle left. Trauma works in cycles. When people are going to therapy, when people are going for healing, what's happening is that there's a cycle that hasn't reached completion. They're hoping that the therapist can bring them to completion. In breath work, it's the same thing. So, we'll have people spontaneously bring up these open cycles. For many women, epidurals mean a cycle of birth has not been completed. Their babies could be 20 and all of a sudden they're contracting because their body never got the message and they get to breathe through it. The body is fascinating. So is the brain. They know how to close cycles. We're 6,000 years of creation. I mean, depending on, you know, what uh what theories you believe in, but we've we've figured it out. You know, somehow we've made it this far. We have this anxiety over, oh my god, if I don't figure this out, like life is going to end. It hasn't ended until now. whatever crisis I'm dealing with with my kids, I keep saying teenagers have come, they have gone. Like, we're going to be okay. Um, but our minds don't know this. Our minds have lost trust in the cycle of completion. So, breath work is one of those ways. Hypnosis is one of those ways where we get the conscious mind like, "Dude, take a break and let the subconscious, let the body do its work." >> Amazing. Is breath work something you should be doing individually, one-on-one, or in a group session? >> Two different kinds of experiences. Very different. What is each for? >> So, one of who should be trying a breath uh class or whatever it is, who who's a good candidate for this? >> So, somebody once asked me, I mean, I get a lot of these questions like, what's your husama? Like, who's your rabbitical authority for breath work? >> Why does this need a huskama for who's the scama to go to a uh >> It's definitely not what we're asking. >> What? >> Right. >> Why does somebody ask that? So I always say, well, people don't know how to trust what's new. So they just want some higher authority to tell them it's okay. >> Okay? >> And my answer will be my huskama is Hashem. And they'll say, what do you mean by that? And I'll say, well, why don't you stop breathing and tell me how that works for you? Let me know in a day or two how that worked for you. If you're breathing, you're a candidate right now. Are you a candidate for every kind of breath work? No. Absolutely not. And that's a big mistake that I wish more people in this community who are like, "Oh my god, let's do breath work." It's like, "No, not everybody should." There are certain contraindications that a facilitator must know about and a client must know about. You know, a pregnant woman can absolutely do breath work, but they want a facilitator who knows how to facilitate pregnant women. If you have certain heart conditions, your facilitator needs to know. Not every facilitator knows how to facilitate certain heart conditions. If you have certain eye, retinal conditions, they need to know. Neurological conditions, epilepsy, right? No, we need to know these things. Um, there's more thyroid issues. We should know. Can it be a problem? It it doesn't have to be, but we need to know. Um, any sort of bipolar, mania, schizophrenia is a big no. When it comes to breath work, does it have to mean that every breath work session is going to bring someone into a manic state? No. But it's something that we don't want to take a risk with. Does that mean that somebody with bipolar or schizophrenia should not do breath work? They could do breath work, but which kind? probably not the kind that you're hearing about from your friends. They should never be doing group sessions. They need individualized one-on-one focus and not the kind of breath that they're hearing about. They need very regulated um again very different kind of breath work. Um >> but what what am I trying to get out of doing breath work? I'm trying to become get rid of an addiction. I'm trying to re uh create some of my happy memories that I had as a child. Why do people go and what's the most common thing that you see it has success with? >> I think that once you start focusing on breathing better, everything in your life is better. Every moment of your life is fueled by you taking a breath. Every cell in your body needs oxygen. There's only one cell in your body that doesn't need oxygen. That's cancer. Cancer is anorobic. They multiply without oxygen. You expose cancer cells to oxygen, they will spontaneously combust. That speaks volumes to what breath work is and can do. So, everybody can benefit from learning how to breathe better. When you go to a breath work session, the kinds that you're thinking about, right? Like a group session. >> Yeah. They're trying to get an outcome right there. >> There's a lot of emotional release. And when you release that level of emotion, you become more regulated after. So think about you you mentioned that you went through a couple of different yeshivas. I can imagine that your teenage years were not amazing, right? Pretty rough. >> But big boys don't cry. So what happened? You had all of this difficulty growing up that there was no one to talk to. You didn't cry. You didn't Rage is not acceptable either, right? Rebellion is not acceptable either. So where does all of that go? Remember, your body doesn't know how old you are. It doesn't know that you're past that. It doesn't know that your life is great. All of that suppressed rate >> still there. >> Breath work can it's like a release valve. What if it gave you permission to let that all go >> and then so my foray into breath work was quite by accident. I didn't want to do breath work. Uh I was like, you know, the Yona and Ninve story where he got Yeah. I was I was the Yona to to breath work. Didn't want to do breath work. Um I breath work requires that you be embodied, right? Your breath takes you deeper into your body. >> I did not want to be in my body. >> Are you still doing it now? >> Sure. >> So you still This is >> I don't work anymore with private clients. What I do these days is I run two trainings and I teach two courses. So the courses are open to anybody. It's a I teach one course called Vessel that's on self-development. Another course called Ignite that's on intimacy and sexuality and embodied the the embodied feminine. And then I teach two trainings, facilitator trainings, which is the hypnotherapy training and Azamra, which is my breath work training. >> Okay. So, we touched on a lot of them. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're going around the board. >> We didn't touch the intimacy one. So, >> we did. We'll get there. >> Okay. >> Yeah, we'll get >> We did touch on that. >> We did not. We'll get there. We'll get there. >> So, going back to breath work. I I was probably the least embodied person. I didn't want to live in my body. My body was not a nice place to be. I had gone through stuff growing up. My body carried memory of that stuff. cancer being one of those things, right? I had a body that betrayed me, that wanted me dead >> and I had to go through chemo. I have scars all over my body. My body wasn't a nice place to live. I remember when I was first diagnosed and >> thinking like it's a weird thought when you're 16 and you're like, I might not be 17. That's so weird. I might not see my next >> Do you I'm sorry to interrupt you. >> Yeah. >> I'm just very curious. My own curiosity. Do you remember the first time you heard the news and who was the one that told you? >> Of course. >> Who was it? >> Yeah. Um, so I was in school and I had a lump in my neck and the first thing that came to mind was I don't know if you remember the Chicken Soup for the Soul books. Sure. Were very popular. >> Love those books, >> right? And it was always like, "Dad had a lump in his neck and then he had cancer and then he died." So like I was like, "Oh, there's a lump in my neck. I'm dying." You know, it was my first thought. Um, I ended up going for about two weeks of tests and scans because they want to rule out everything, right? It could be this, it could be that. And then about two weeks in, I'm with my mom and we're in a hematologist's office and I'm not an idiot. You know, hematology is is blood cancer. It's blood diseases. And I'm there and there are bald kids in the waiting room and my mother is like studiously not looking at them. And I'm like, there are bald kids here. Like, I'm not an idiot. And then I I'm I'm with my mother and we the doctor comes into the room and he comes in with an intern and they both look really really serious. And the doctor says, "I have news." And my mother just gets very emotional and she starts crying. And he says, "So, my heart's pounding as I'm saying this." He says, "It looks like you have something called Hodkins lymphoma." And I say, "Oh, cool." And he says, "Do you know what Hodkins lymphoma is?" And I say, "No." So he says, "Well, well," he tells me, "I have Hodkins." And I said, "I don't know what Hodkins." He's like, "Well," And he goes, "Well, it's a type of lymphoma." And I'm like, >> "Keep going. >> Cool." He's like, "You you don't know what lymphoma is, right?" I'm like, "Nope." So then he gets like really really nervous and he starts like, you know, opening his buttons and he's like, "Well, well, so you have something called Hodkins, which which it's a kind of lymphoma, which is a kind of um cancer." And I'm like, "Cool, yeah, cool." >> And then you knew when you dropped that word. >> He says, "Do you know what cancer is?" I'm like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." So then the intern tells me, he's like, "Can I ask you a personal question?" And I'm like, I'm sitting here in a robe that I like to call the ICU, but if you'd like to get more personal than that, you know, go for it. >> He says, "The doctor just told you that you have cancer, and you are looking at him like school was just canceled." I'm like, it was that was my reaction. So, he turns to the doctor. He says, "You think she has a problem with her neck? You should probably check her head." I cried later. I cried later. It took me like six hours. I just cried because I was overwhelmed. I wasn't sad. I was just very overwhelmed. I had cancer twice, by the way. This was that was only my first time having cancer. I had cancer again three years ago. Um, I'm not that type. I don't get sad. I got overwhelmed with a new >> You don't get sad, you thrive. Are you kidding me? You don't just quit. You don't just that that a lot of people could say that would be amazing if you just keep yourself going. But you don't just keep yourself going. You accomplish. And Michael, you said in the beginning, you don't just learn and grow. You give back. I quote that when you said that you give back. You're out there teaching people and helping people. And you have your own history. Uh amazing. Absolutely in inspiring. And twice >> are you just a second time? Yeah. >> When when did you go into remission the first time? >> So, going back to the question that I was telling you before, when I found out that I had cancer, I remember making this very strange internal decision. If I'm going to fight for my life, I better figure out why this life is worth fighting for. Cuz I was that typical 16-year-old kid who was not very happy with my life. I didn't really know what I want. Like, I don't fit in anywhere. I was lonely. I had been bullied a lot. I was in my fifth school in five years. I was there and I was just like, I'm not. What's the point? And then the doctor's like, you might die. And I'm like, how do I feel about that? And if I'm going to do this, if I'm going to go through chemo, I better figure out why this life is worth living. And so, it's not it's not crazy to me that I ended up doing breath work even though I didn't want to. Because breath work, it it it's not living in the mind. It's not even living in the heart. It's living in every breath that you take. like this breath is meaningful. The cancer that I had, the chemo that I took actually scarred my lungs very badly. And they told me that I would never have full lung capacity in my like for the rest of my life. I proved that wrong. Like I'm an athlete. I'm fine. I I breathe better than anybody I know. And when you ask me like what's the purpose? So becoming more embodied. I want to feel alive everywhere. I want to feel I want you to feel more alive when you're standing next to me. I want this moment to be special. And it really is. I don't I don't get bored. I don't believe that that life is mundane. There are no ordinary moments. Every moment is extraordinary. Every moment is an adventure. I do say Moda Anani differently than anybody else does. I still complain a lot. I still have my down days. But I love my down days. There's something about it like, wow, I feel it differently. But when I started breath work, I wasn't living in my body. I feel like I was kind of following my body like three days behind. like I was like would watch my head go through life and be like hold on you know and then when I got into breath work by mistake and we'll get to that in a second because I got there through intimacy counseling which was really interesting I resisted the training in breath work I didn't sign up for it again mistake but there was this one moment where I felt like there was a part of me that landed in my body differently and when I opened my eyes I can't explain this better but I I was looking I felt like I was looking out through my eyes my my eyes for the first time in my life. I don't know what how I was seeing life before, but I had opened my eyes and been like, "These are my eyes. I see now. I'm really here." And I heard my body tell me, "Welcome home." I had never felt at home in my body. >> And after that moment, I knew that this was something I had to bring more of. You know, if I don't know how much research you said you did five minutes of research on me before I came on the podcast, but if you Google my name, >> I've been on a world stage since I'm 16, since I wrote the book. I wrote the book when I was 21, but I've been speaking on stages even before then. >> We didn't even get to the third paragraph, but but I'm loving it. I I like it coming out naturally better. It's good. >> So, if you research old videos of me, old podcast episodes of me, my voice is completely different. I do not sound like the same person. There's an evolution of consciousness growing up and the public eye because I have been the last 20 years of my life. I've been on stage and people have watched me grow up. They've watched me evolve. They've watched my voice change because it used to be again not that long ago. My voice is up here. Like I would have done an entire podcast info interview and I would have sounded like this. No way. >> Yeah. And you know what? You know what else? You hear people talk like this all the time. So fine. You open up Instagram. Everybody on Instagram sounds like this. Probably. You have anxiety listening, right? Wow. Okay. >> You know why you have anxiety? >> Because I'm We're all vibratory beings. Yeah. >> Our voice is coming from our voices. >> Also knowing it wasn't you. If you would have started off that way, you would have accepted it. >> It is my voice. >> Isn't that crazy? And when I do breath work, I always say, I want to be the kind of per person that people breathe better when they're with me. You just stopped breathing. You breathe worse when you heard my voice up there. And that's a very normal voice. You hear lots of Every seminary girl talks like this, right? And it's fine. But they all have anxiety. They don't know they have anxiety because they all sound fine. But then your voice drops which means you're actually speaking from a deeper more >> and you're more in control. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You're you're more embodied and people around you hear it with their ears and feel it with their body. The minute I changed my voice the person who spoke with that voice I was powerful. I was smart. I was amazing. I was already changing the world and I was struggling internally. >> Yeah. >> So now you >> this is more confident. I the confidence exudes using this kind of >> confidence then but differently. Different >> different kind of confidence. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's like you're more in tune now like uh I guess with your inner self. >> So the breath work training that I run >> to see. Yeah. >> It's called a Zamra which is I will sing. It's all about tune attunement. >> Yeah. To me uh frequent that's why I noticed your your table when I walked in. >> Are you musical? >> I am. Frequency, sound, vibration. They're all part of this. I believe that breath is the song of creation. We're all singing a song >> all the time. >> But do you sing like musically sing? Well, you know, call it Asia. But But do you? >> I can sing. I can carry. Yeah. >> Do you play any instruments? >> I do. >> Really? Yeah. Which ones? >> Um, I have a bunch of different hand pans. Uh, two flutes. Different kinds of flutes. Um, so they're played a little differently. >> A flute. Huh? >> Yeah. Not a flute, a drone. They're different. Flutes are this way, >> right? >> But I say flute because people just know what a flute is, >> right? What What did you say it was? Uh, >> it's a drone. >> A drone. >> Yeah. So, it's like a wooden flute and it has more than one chamber. >> Michael, do you know what that is? I just recently learned about it, but Yeah. Yeah. So they sound they're more woodsy. >> Pull it up to show him. It's it's interesting. Yeah. >> Instead of playing like this, you're playing like that, right? That's Is that what you see in India with this with the snake that's coming out? I think they play >> almost That's usually this way. It's in front of you versus >> Yes. It's in front of you. >> Yeah. >> I have uh a liar, which is like a harp. I'm not very good at that one yet. And I'm starting the cello. >> Wow. >> So you like the the uh extreme instruments like the >> things that actually talent. >> Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. I can't >> No, like what happened to the good oldfashioned American guitar, you know? >> Oh, we have keyboards, too. Yeah. Um, >> where was guitar invented? Was it invented in America? >> I don't know. We have Stefan for that. >> I feel like it makes sense. I feel >> Googled. Oh, he's looking. There's the drone. That's it. Yeah, those are the drones. >> Cool. Oh, I've seen that. I've seen that. That's very cool. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, um, but again, that's it's just a private thing. Like, I play music just for myself. >> Okay. >> But, so to me, frequency, sound, and vibration are everything. So, we're all giving off vibrations all the time. You just don't realize it, right? Your heart is vibrating. Your nervous system is vibrating and your vibratory field extends out uh around you. Like when the said you have six like dalid amos, right? That's what Dal Amos translates to about six feet. And science is telling us that our vibratory field actually surrounds us with in a six foot bubble, which is crazy because that's what Amos is. And someone who's musically attuned can actually come into your field and pick up on the vibrations that you're exuding. >> Interesting. >> And we can do one of two things. We can read them for you like an antenna. Like what if I just went through your field and I kind of picked up on your thing. Like remember before when you were talking about the bodega like where you bought the cigarettes? I'm like I don't need 18. Like I felt it off you. >> And uh and we can do something else. We can introduce new frequencies that your body will accept. So when I was coming up, I taught the breath work training for a year and it didn't have a name and we were thinking of a name and then all of a sudden Azamra popped in because music and frequency and vibration are a big deal and uh and I really liked that it was one of Rabin Aman's teachings about picking up the broken notes. >> Do you like study uh do you learn >> because I'm hearing now throughout this podcast a few times you're dropping some of these pearls of wisdom from like I think you mentioned the Kazonish or something earlier. No, who you mentioned somebody was a name or whatever and then uh Schlom Muham and then and this and Gomarra and do you learn like in your spare time? >> I do. >> What do you learn like >> Well, we did a CM on Var this morning. >> You learned the whole of Gumar. >> You're kid by with who? >> Part of a shir. >> What? >> I'm part of a learning group. >> There's a collection of women that are sitting together learning Gumarra. >> How dare you? >> I know, right? >> No, no. This is just news. I did not know that this uh exist. women learn >> gamarra. >> Well, yeah, garamara is I guess a little bit different than what we're used to in our world. >> Michael threequarters being don't learn gam. >> Okay. And uh >> I don't think learn anything more than >> who gives this year who who's who's uh >> um I learned with a women's group called Hadran and the the Rabanite who teaches it. Her name is Rabanite Michelle Farber. >> You learn rashi and typhus and everything >> ish. I mean it's the yomi so it's faster you know but we do learn rashi and a little bit of typhus. Yeah. >> Every day. Yep. >> How long is this going on for? >> Um, I started 18 months ago. >> You're kidding me. >> No, I started with Bakama and uh I'm about in two weeks I'll be finishing S. >> But what what are you getting out of this? What are you searching for? Like what is the enjoyment? >> I can't believe I'm speaking. This this might be the part that has to be edited out. I'm not sure. We can continue this conversation, but I don't really talk about this in >> I don't care if we keep it in or not. For me personally, this is fascinating thing though. It's not uh how how does this translate into relevant things for you? like how is this helping you in your in your a man has a mitzvah to learn so he learns gumar it's part of part of it you know and and there are some educational things you could take away don't get me wrong but like avo I don't know like what are you like what what life lesson did you get that oh I'm going to incorporate this this is great or I'm a better person >> you said she's trying to learn a life lesson from >> why else would she be learning >> well let's first answer that question >> you find it stimulating >> I I just love it I I don't even know how to answer that I wish I had a more uh I wish I had a better Well, what drove you to it? Why did you decide one day I would like to learn Gamarra? >> I think I had this itch for a long time. I was very intimidated by it. I had some learning difficulties growing up, specifically with reading Hebrew. Um, reading anything I can read very well from left to right. I didn't know it at the time that the issue that my brain was having was reading from right to left. Um, and people thought I was faking it because I'm so smart and I never had a problem reading, but Hebrew just was so frustrating to me. It took me really until one of my children was struggling again 30 years later to realize that there's new research out there and apparently it's a thing that nobody knew about when I was a kid. I could not wait to leave high school and be like, I never want to open a kamush again. It's not my subject. I really flunked out of all Hebrew subjects. >> Um, >> and then you discovered why. Yeah. Yeah. I still have I I I can't believe I'm saying this out loud. I'm feeling a little nauseous even talking about this because I'm so >> This is my hypnotic uh me now. I'm very private about um this piece because I still I haven't figured it out and it's like scary for me to talk about it. Also because I love it so much and I don't know why because I feel like an idiot. I show up every morning and I don't know what I'm doing. It's 18 months and I still feel like I'm barely keeping my head above water. >> But I I I love >> So it's a challenge. You like the challenge? Can I ask was that your first exposure to learning uh since high school or was there something else prior to that? >> So till 2016 I don't think I read a single educational book. I read novels only novels. In 2016 something switched. I don't know what it was. I picked up a book by accident fell in love with it. Wanted to know more. >> Do you remember what it was? >> Yep. It was called The Language of Emotions by Carla McLaren. Um she really had a great way of breaking down every single emotion, what it's there for, the movement in the body. Kind of tied into what I said about Mel Gibson and the different breaths, right? tied in over there. To this day, that book is very foundational in this one of the courses that I teach, Vessel, which is on self-development. The third module in Vessel is called the language of emotions, which is the name of her book. It's built on that. I mean, there's more hashkafa put in because Torah also has different words for every emotion. Like there's like 17 words for anger because there's many different kinds of anger, right? >> Right. And if you know the different breakdown of which angers and and when they're used and what uh how they move through the body, you understand that not all anger is the same. Some is healthy. There's an appropriate time to use the different kinds of anger, right? They have a different breath pattern. So these things were fascinating to me. Um but I didn't like learn. In fact, in 2012, my daughter was rejected from every like nursery school in Brooklyn because it's really hard to get your kids. >> Jesus. It starts already at nursery. >> It does. where they start like being selective about which kids they're taking or not. >> My god. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, um I was very I was very disillusioned with with Judaism. Not as a religion, but as in why am I here? >> Like this is not this is not like what? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I was I was not I was not a fan. Not a fan. And I was very un I was so unhappy. It was a very difficult time in my life. I was also pregnant with my third. And he was a miracle baby because after cancer I knew that every baby was going to be a gift. But after our second, we were told we would never have more kids. And so this third child was was an actual miracle. Like the doctors didn't know we like we we could never get like we couldn't get pregnant. Oh, we had a fourth child after that after 10 years. >> Wow. Good for you guys. >> Another miracle child. But I remember being pregnant with this miracle child when my daughter wasn't getting accepted into school and thinking why am I doing this? >> Yeah. >> Like what like what is this? I fought for this life. I fought for these kids and then they can't even go to Jewish schools. I was very disillusioned. >> It's one of the darker things in our culture is when it comes to schools. And >> um and by the way, I want to go back a minute to the thing about the Gamaras. I don't want you to think >> No, I'm coming. I'm coming. >> No, but I want to I want to clarify something. I'm a Michael knows this and I've said it on this podcast, so I have proof. I am a big advocate for women doing anything a man can do and I want my daughters to to know that their path is open for anything. I don't care what it is. So, I'm all for it. I just find it so interesting that out of all the things you want to do that a man does, this is what you chose to follow. That's all that's all I was pointing. Yeah. I was like a little surprised. I didn't I hope I didn't come across. Let's say the whole thing. >> We listen and we don't judge. >> We listen and we don't judge. Right. Don't worry. You're good. >> So, at that time, I remember feeling like I need to really reframe my Judaism. The same way when I was 16 and I said, "What is this life that I'm fighting for?" In 2012, I had to ask myself, what is this Judaism that I'm fighting for? Why am I fighting so hard to get my kid into a Jewish school? I can send her a public school. So, that was a new question. You know, you were talking about being a seeker. It was a new question that I had to ask. So, I called up partners in Torah and I said, "Give me a partner in Torah." And they were like, "So cool. Yeah, we're going to assign you to some college kid, unaffiliated." I'm like, "No, I'm the unaffiliated Jew." So they actually they actually did assign me to some college kid and we studied para for three years. Para from the little medish says the simplest kids version of para and as I'm reading this every Wednesday night for three years. I'm like I know nothing there. I I I coined a term at that time called Cinderella Judaism because my daughter at the time when I was struggling, she was four, three, four. And weirdly, I don't know why the Disney stories that we grew up on that we took for granted, I didn't give them to my kids. So, I didn't realize like I took for, you know, we take Cind Cinderella for granted. And I remember my daughter had this, you know, uh a pack of underwear that had a different Disney princess on each one. And I opened it up for her and I'm like, "Oh, Cinderella." And she's like, "I don't know who you're talking about." I'm like, "My my my kid doesn't know who Cinderella is. I'm going to tell you right now." And I get prepared to tell her the story of Cinderella. And I'm like, "There was a girl and her mommy died." And my kid's like, >> "That's terrible. >> Bad start." >> Yeah. I'm like, "No, no, no. It gets better. Her father remarried to a terrible stepmother." She's like, "What? >> When's the good part? >> When's the good part?" Right. And I keep going and she's like, "Mommy, I really don't want to hear the story. It's not a very good story." I'm like, "No, no, hold on. It gets better." And then I tell her about the fairy godmother. Fury godmother comes, makes everything all better, gives Cinderella glass slippers, and she looks at me and she says, "Mommy, we cannot step on glass. We are going to cut ourselves." >> I'm like, "Oh my god, she's right. This is a terrible story. This doesn't make sense at all. And we've never asked these questions we've just accepted." Yeah. >> And I realized that for me, Judaism was another version of Cinderella. I had not learned Judaism properly since I had been in kindergarten. You learn para for the first time in kindergarten when you're not old enough to think and then you just accept these things and you don't ask these questions and I'm like I need to start asking questions. So I went back to para that was the first thing from there I can't even begin to tell you because it evolved over certain years but I never considered myself someone who learns. I don't learn. I'm not interested in learning. That was a temporary blip on my radar. But then like 18 months ago, it started a little earlier actually. About two years ago, Gamara started coming into my field of awareness. And I it just was like I can't explain it. It was just like it wouldn't let go. And I was like, I don't like I barely read. I can't do this. I don't know what you're talking. I just don't I was so But you know, it was like the Yona and Ninve again. I couldn't It was a calling and I couldn't ignore it. And then I was scrolling YouTube one day and some video popped up out of the blue. I guess you know Google's hearing it knows it knows >> and they put out this challenge learning masah migilla I know everyone laughs when I say masah because I'm from Bora park and I speak like I'm you know modox but that's where I'm learning so that's where my lang you know that's where my havar goes from but it's it's a 30-day challenge it was an extra adar that year and they said there's 32 well 31 daffim of msak migill we have an extra month let's do 30 do 31 doim in time for for him. Um, and I was looking at it and there were, you know, it was women and the line that got to me is a sheir, a dafier is 45 minutes a day. It's roughly the amount of time you spend watching an episode on Netflix. I was like, I never thought about it that way. Like, it's so easy to just waste 45 minutes on Netflix. >> So easy. >> Yeah. >> Oh god. >> 45 minutes on Netflix. >> Oh, it's nothing. >> It's nothing. Great. So, I was like, I can do that. And I started and I fell in love. And when I finished those 30 days of McGill, just around that time they were starting BA Mitsia and I just couldn't imagine after those 30 days of migilla just I wasn't ready to give it up. So I continued with Bubba Mitsia and I was like I'm just listening to the sher that's all I'm doing. That's all I'm doing. And then when we started Bubba Basra I was like I think I'm in. And that's when I bought my first Gamara. And then >> where did you get your first black? >> You got it online or you went to like what did you do? >> I went to you went to >> Yeah. Now I'm their subscription program. They just have it delivered to my, you know, they don't, no one looks twice. They're joking. Yeah. >> And then halfway through Bavabas, I realized I think I'm in it for the long haul. And how would I feel finishing Cedar Nazikin when I started in the middle? I have to go back to Bavakama. So this entire winter, I did Bavasra in the morning with my Dionomi and Bakama at night because I my son's bar mitzvah was this year. So I wanted to finish Bavakama in time for his bar mitzvah. >> Are you making sums also? Like are women allowed to make CMS? >> I made a sem this morning. I don't know. Do you have a shot of tequila? We can do it together. You made us see him this morning. >> Well, mazle tough to you. >> Thank you. Congratulations. Like you said the whole thing the the and and >> all the rough papas the hydron >> all that stuff. What is going on over here? I feel like I'm in a twilight zone right now. >> Literally because I feel like uh I should be learning more. And you're literally like what else is going on in your life? Like what are you hiding other things from us? >> So far I've been an open book. I've answered every question you had. But you asked me what keeps me there. I don't know. I feel like there's also it's very deeply psychological like like Talmud. I know the rabbis in the room would hate when I say this, but I'm like understanding who these voices are. What made them say the things they say? What did they know? What caused them to what were the goings on at the time that caused them to determine hala in that way to have these conversations? I literally feel that I'm sneaking into the back of the base measures where I'm not allowed to be. And I'm hearing all of these voices and I'm like, I just want to know. I just want to hear what you're talking about. I want to hear what you're thinking. Um, and again because I'm a woman and because I'm coming at this much later in life, I do have a different view because I'm not conditioned into this Cinderella Judaism since I'm, you know, gadalled, right? So to me, it's just like, tell me more. There's so much I don't know. And I enjoy feeling a little bit like an idiot. I sit there in the morning and it's it's literally what gets me out of bed. I don't start my day before learning. Um, so I wake up extra early to get that done and I'm just I hope I never lose that love. I haven't. I'll tell you what. >> I'm jealous of you. You're having a better time than I am. And I feel like you're getting more out of this than a lot of men are. >> And it's unbelievable. And you're also looking at this from such a mature perspective. Like you genuinely want to know. >> I want to know. >> Like you're in it to win it. You're in this because like there's a lot of knowledge out there and you're thirsty for it. And uh this is what I think it was all meant for. I mean there's pearls of wisdom all over the place in the Gumar. That's why any businessman, you know, they always say, "Oh, here's a Gammorra cup." Makes sense. >> There's something about it, >> right? Because there's so much uh intricacies, so much like really crazy things like thought processes and all that that only comes from the Gamarra and and you're tapping into that and with your background as the psychoanalysis that only you can do. I feel like you guys are speaking each other's languages and it's almost like this was built for someone like you. >> Right. So there was something that came up uh a week ago on Dafay and Alf that they had this conversation of it's it's about Yayak right uh wine from idol worshippers. So if if they touched the wine if they saw the wine right if they opened the wine all of the if the wine mixed all these different questions about what would happen with the wine. So there was this mission that says okay if if a band of soldiers came in and they opened up all the caskets of wine at the same right are they allowed or are they not allowed and the question is is it wartime or is it not wartime right because sometimes they have a thirst and sometimes they're just they're just looking to loot and steal so the question there's a question about that so they compared it to another Mishna about you know sexuality do we have to worry that the soldiers are making are destroying all the women in town could they marry kohanim whatever and they're they're is it wartime is it not wartime and then rev Mary pops up and says No, you don't. That's not the same thing with sexuality. You never ask this question because that thirst is never abaded. And I was like, wait, Rev. Mary was born out of that kind of relationship. He's Schmool's grandson who's was was born out of rape. His mother was raped by a nobleman by and and so he had a non-Jewish father. And again, there's two Revarries in the Talmud, and we don't know which one. It doesn't say which which Revary is talking, but both Rev Maries in the Talmud had a non-Jewish father. And I'm like, I can't believe no one's talking about this. I can't even believe it. I just heard this for the very first time. I'm like I I Could you start coming? Can you come to my show please? Could you start giving uh shears in the morning? >> Mary never gets mentioned and Masakazar his name doesn't come up as far as I remember. He almost I never heard his name in Masakar. >> You keep saying what? >> Mary. >> Mary? >> Yeah. >> Who's Mary? >> That's his name. He's >> not Rome. >> No, no, no. >> Mary like me. >> Yep. >> I never did you ever hear Mary before? Don't look at me. >> And so your voice never remember I'm learning with a different right. So I'm not um yeah like now we're learning like the next we're starting tomorrow we're starting Horot and my friends are like you mean Hyrias? I'm like I don't know Mike's going to say Horat like I'm going to go with what works. So >> Michael I have to say we must do part two. >> Not yet opened his mouth. >> I would like for you to come back. There is way more to uncover. I feel like we just scratched the surface is really what I feel like. We don't even know who you are, where you came from. We're nothing. We know nothing about you and I feel like I'm your friend already. I feel like we should exchange numbers and and >> you have to because you're going to text me in two weeks about the cigarettes. >> About the cigarettes. Exactly. It was really a pleasure to meet you. >> My pleasure. >> Honestly, it was amazing. And by the way, uh you're an inspiration just so you know. Does not go unnoticed about the difficulties that you had to overcome and the challenges that you faced. And let this be a lesson. And let this for all the viewers, for anybody out there that has any challenge that's even remotely close to the challenges you had to face. You can do anything. You can be anyone and you can help everyone. And you're a testament to that. So, um, I respect you. I really do. I admire everything that you've accomplished so far and continue to. It sounds like you're never happy. The book is still being written. >> I'm always happy. There's always more. >> I never talk about my Tomwood Learning public. >> I I don't know. You know what? Look, there is a lot of people that would say women have no place learning Gammorra. >> I still think I have no place learning Gomorrah. >> So, what where do you think that comes from? >> I I I have to argue with it. I mean, there are many women mentioned in the Gomorrah. Obviously, they're outnumbered by men, but there are smart women mentioned in the Gamarra who learn Bura Yaltta, right? They have they have names. They have personalities. Rafisda's daughter is mentioned more than any other woman in Talmud. She doesn't have a name but she was married to two tal Rava and Rabi Ramy Babarana. Um sorry I'm saying Raba Barbarana I mean Raba um Rami Barama um and like she's very well regarded in the Talmud. Women in Talmud in general are well regarded taking into account the times right the time period and the roles that women played. I don't I don't I think the the line that gets quoted most often is Rebel Yazarb Harkin saying teach your daughter Torah you're teaching her tifilis. They're teaching her promiscuity. What people are not say or not realizing is that it's taken out of context. I believe it's in Gamarra Sotas Daf and the context that it's in is that in the time of the sot, the woman who was accused of adultery and she was given the bitter waters. If the bitter waters didn't work on her, what she was told is it's the merit of the Torah that you learn that it's protecting you. And so rebel said, "Don't say this because if you're if you're teaching the daughters that they can learn Torah and they'll be protected from the bitter waters, they're going to be able to learn Torah and protect themselves and do whatever they want." But that's not the truth of don't teach your daughters Torah. He said it in the context of this one thing. But I feel like for me learning is this is the Judaism I'm a fight I'm fighting for, right? I'm not fighting that women should learn Gamarra. To me, it's like if you love baking cougle, if if you're a great mommy to your kids, if if this is the life that you love, if you're not a seeker, don't. It's not for you. I'm not a feminist like, oh, I'm not like that. I don't even believe that all the men have to learn to. I think this thing of every man has to be in yeshiva, it's very new. I think it's like under a hundred years old, right? In the times of our grandparents in the not everybody went to yeshiva, not everybody learned. The idea of marrying a learning boy was like you had one phenomenal learner in the town, right? If the town had one kid that was accepted to the yeshiva, the whole town celebrated their Eloy of the town, the genius of the town. So this whole way that we navigate the education system, it's an education system that was designed by the industrial revolution. Basically create factory workers, create assembly line workers. We've created an assembly line Torah, right? Everybody has to fit the mold. That's never what Torah was. I have discovered a way that lights me up. I feel so terrible almost talking about this in public because it lights me up and I'm so scared of losing that love. Like what if like it's almost like it's so private that I want to know that I will love it forever cuz I'm very lit up by life itself but there are very few things that just are so I don't know that are so personal to me like it's my guilty pleasure. It's so >> well the only person that can shut it down is you yourself. So what are you afraid of? >> No, but like I I almost still can't believe how much I love it. >> What are you afraid of though? I'm not sure I get that. Cuz if I lost it, >> why would you lose it? You're in control of what you learn. >> No, it's not about learning. >> Is it growing up in an environment where women shouldn't be learning Torah? Is that what you're thinking in the background? >> The way I loved Torah, the way I learned Torah growing up did not feel like love to me. And I still am not sure why I fell in love, right? I'm not fighting it, but that's why I don't speak about it in public. I'm >> I think it's cool to speak about it. I mean, I hope we can uh release this part of the uh discussion simply. >> I hope we can celebrate my CMAS in a few years. >> That would be amazing. You'll be the only woman at the CMAS. We had someone here who was the producer for the CMA Shas. >> Oh, that's so cool. >> And uh we'll ask him to get you a seat in the next one. >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know how they feel about people like me because again, I think you know a lot of the men that I meet, they have been stiging. They have been working hard. They've been smacked by their rebay since they're 8 years old. >> They're like, "What are you doing?" Like you think, "Yeah, you don't know Torah." >> I think we'll save this part for round two. Uh and I really invite you to uh take us up on that offer and come back and have this continued discussion. And until then, we'll hear all the feedback from people and hear what they say about what could be the challenge of it. But, you know, I'm I'm actually I want to say I'm very happy for you. Uh, you know, I learned a few years ago someone taught me the idea of instead of saying to my kids, I'm proud of you to start saying a little bit that I'm happy for you. >> So, in this kind of context, I would say I'm both. But I don't want to sound, you know, uh, you know, off here by saying I'm proud of you. What am I to be proud of you? I'm happy for you that you're on the, you know, journey of finding what you love and doing it. No one can take that away from you. So, I wouldn't be afraid of sharing it simply because >> like an iron horror piece like, oh, if people know how much I loved it, maybe like lightning is going to strike from the sky. >> Or if people know how much you loved it and how good it's doing for you, it might do good for them. >> Do you know how many weird nightmares I have with people running away with my Gamara? I know it sounds crazy. It's like the literally it's the nightmare that I wake up most often from. Where's my Gamara? you know, you're definitely one out of a trillion, right? I don't think anyone's ever having those kind of nightmares. >> I cannot believe I'm saying that. >> I either way, um, I think it's awesome and I hope we can share this. And I think that the idea of what you're doing in general in life is to help others and by talking about finding your passion regardless of whether it's Gamorra or Ksh or something to learn from and open your eyes to that and uh really live a fulfilling life. >> I feel passionate about laundry. >> I'm not joking. like anything as long as something lights you up. >> What are you passionate about laundry? You like the smell. You like cleaning. What is it? >> You know, there's something very soothing about folding laundry and folding them into these perfect OCD piles. >> I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know. >> And they Yeah, the smell. Getting your laundry to smell right. It's important. Yeah. >> Uh thinking >> I'm not just passionate about intellectual subjects. I'm just passionate about I get to live this life. >> Yeah. >> This life is important. >> Yeah. That's beautiful. And you know, we do usually ask people in the middle of the podcast to share a message. What would that message be for you? You know, if you had um if you had that opportunity for one specific message of growth or whatever it is that you can talk about, what would that be? A specific message to the listeners. >> Wow. Um I know that this is like a very standard question and I should have like a very glib response rolling off my tongue. The thing that pops into my mind right now is stop focusing on the big things and focus on the smallest things because they matter the most. For me, taking one breath at a time, it really matters. The world can wait. Everything that you're dealing with, right? Like there's a famous line, if this is not going to matter in five years, don't spend more than five minutes on it. Right? It's not 100% true 100% of the time, but it's a good line. But you know what will matter? This breath that you're taking right now. Because if you don't take this breath, your life is over. And I know it sounds like the smallest thing that you can be doing, but that's the message. Sometimes, like when I was 16. When you're 16, you think you're on top of the world. You think you have it all figured out. you're not talking to your parents because they're dumb and you're smart and and and you have this vision for who you are, who you think you are, what what life you're gonna lead. And then it's like, nope, actually that's gone. The person you thought you were, that's gone. The the body that you thought you lived in is going to change forever. Your health is going to change. Your friends are going to everything is going to change. You can't control any of it. What's required of you is to be right here, right now. This moment is the only moment that matters because every other moment that you're going to live is predicated on this one. You can't have a future without your now. So, focus on your now. Um, I worry a lot because I'm a mom. Like, that's what we do. That's we're supposed to worry, right? And my kids don't need me to worry about their future. My kids need me to be here with them right now. So, even though I had a million things to do because I'm running a training next week and I have a million things on my head, last night I spent two hours watching a movie with my kid because that's what she needed. And it was a great two hours cuz that's what the now demanded. Everything else can wait. Everything else will get there. But this moment is the only one you can control. And if this was the last moment I ever spent on Earth, would it matter? Would someone look at this moment and said, "This was a great one." >> Wow. For someone who didn't have a message, that's pretty darn good. >> Thank you. >> I appreciate that. Um, who would you recommend to sit in this seat for the podcast? That's one of the things that we don't let you go without picking somebody. >> I would give you two names. >> Who would you pick? >> Um, a mentor of mine that's actually my business coach, but also a personal mentor of mine, Rabbi Ezra Max. He's been very instrumental in my life in the last two years. um not just in he calls himself a business coach but he is the person who doesn't let you separate yourself and your growth and your spirituality from what it is that you do in the world which is everything that I believe in. So that's been I think he's someone who would fit right in over here having the conversations with you. And the second person that I would recommend is you should call my mom. >> Your mom? >> Mhm. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I think you should call my mom. >> Never got that before. Love it. Tell me about your mom. My mom, her name is Riffy Lur. She is a powerhouse. I mean, she raised me. She had to be a She She survived my childhood. So, she and my dad are pretty awesome human beings. My mom runs a company with my father. They own a company called Compu, a telecommunications company, and she is the power behind it all. She's the foundation of of everything. My father would be the first one to tell that to you. And she's she's not just a business mind, she's a mom. And even while I was sick with cancer, she was cooking meals for High Lifeline. Like I was the cancer patient and High Lifeline was picking up meals and she was running a company and doesn't miss a day of work and she was on the PTA. And uh you know people love interviewing me without realizing that I was made by somebody like it's it's it's nature, it's nurture, but there are really good people in my life that got me to this point. >> First of all, I want them both. But before we get to that, I just want to say that uh you're here today because I post a lot on LinkedIn. >> I'm here because of my mom. >> That's true. I'm saying in this >> my mom got me this gig >> in this moment at the podcast. Um so I've been talking a lot on LinkedIn and quoting a lot of our guests and uh we have recommendations that people give us all the time. So Aaron Brody, shout out to you. Thank you Aaron for recommending us to you. I don't even think you know who he is. >> No. So do you know how he got to me? >> I don't know. >> Oh, so this is the funniest story. So my mom hired Ronnie. Oh, you are here because of your mom. Yes, I wasn't. I thought you were joking. I never knew. >> No, I had no idea. He just recommended. He's like this. You have to have this woman on your podcast. And I'm like, hey, Aaron knows LinkedIn. He knows what he's doing there. So, he probably knows a little bit about this. Hilarious. >> I took his advice and here you are. >> So, so my mom uh telecommunications company, right? So, there was a builder show about two weeks ago and they had a booth there and through LinkedIn and marketing and sales, they hired Aaron to come and represent at their booth, right, for sales leads and marketing. And so as they're talking and as they're collabing, they're smoozing and I don't know how the conversation got there because I'm only hearing this secondhand. Erin mentions something about past lives and his rabbi says something about having a mission and a purpose and we come back life after life. So my mother very casually drops in, "Oh, you sound like my daughter. My daughter's into these things." So he tells my mom, he says, "Your daughter, does she know Folly Klein?" And she's like, "My daughter is Folly Klein." >> That's the best. >> Right. So that was this unexpected like nahas call you know my mother's like how do you end up in my world like my mom is like straight lace telecommunications but she's not you know so then so then Aaron reached out to me and says I want to introduce you to my friend and I'm like and then I see the name of your podcast I'm like none of your business I'm not really in business like like that's what I told you like what why am I here >> good and >> I think we figured it out. I >> think we figured it out. >> Wow. Well thank you Erin and uh thank you and thank your mom. Um we're not going to let you go though without at least calling one of them. So, let's call Ezra. >> Sure. >> I'm on a podcast. I'm on the None of Your Business podcast with Michael Greenfeld. >> No, it's none of your business where I am. I got >> It's none of your business where I am. >> Yeah. And uh he has a question for you. Are you okay? >> Surprise, surprise, Polly. We know each other really well. >> Oh, you do? >> Yes. >> No way. That's so weird. >> Actually spent the shabas on the military base in the United States. >> No way. >> I was excited to see if you could get him on video. What's going on? How are you? >> Funny. I am completely breaking a bunch of vehicle traffic laws right now >> on video. Wow. And I'm coping to Is this prosecutable? What's up? >> I don't know. We'll get an attorney and figure it out. I want you to know that she picked you to be a guest on our podcast. So now you have no choice. >> Rabbi Ezra Max, would you please come on our podcast? >> Absolutely. I love direct requests. Thank you again to all our subscribers. Thank you so much to everyone that's commenting and giving us advice and thoughts. We love it. We love the hate. We love the love. We just love you guys communicating. Thank you again to Twillery, our sponsor. Thank you to the Prime Source production team. Thank you for Ushi for showing up for almost all of our podcast today. And Stephan is telling me that there's going to be a part two. >> Oh, there's going to be a part two. >> Stay tuned for a part two, guys. That's a wrap. All right. [Music]