HOW CLIENTS LEARN TO TRUST YOU | Episode 6 with Meny Hoffman & Pinchus Shiff

Welcome to [music] the Let's Talk Business podcast, a project of the PEX Group. Gain valuable, actionable ideas from the world's top business leaders [music] to help you take the next step in your business journey. And now, here is your host, Manny Hoffman. >> Good morning. >> Morning. >> Okay, today's topic. Okay, so today's topic is a is a loaded one. I want to start off first the conversation with understanding how a salesperson markets themsself in order to in order to gain traction in leads and then I have a couple of follow-ups. But in the past when I started I started the episode with a bunch of things we're going to be discussing and then had to push them off. So we'll start with one at a time. >> Okay. So my question is first of all I I the funny part is >> every episode that goes like that that we record I become >> more comfortable and I think the content >> the last episode is more quality content than the first one. >> Mhm. >> Content with less stress I guess or real. Does that make sense? >> Yeah. And I think I think the >> you're comfortable. You're you've been doing hundreds of episodes. >> People always ask me about public speaking if I still have any fear uh when >> I saw your thingy on a London flyer. >> Yeah. Sam that's the navigation seminar. I love speaking at these events. These people are so hungry to for >> fundraisers. It's very similar to sales. >> I talked to I have a few friends fundraisers in order to be successful. I think you need to sell a product similar to payroll or any other product a part of something. It reminded me that my first networking event I did in the sales up group which is uh the all sales people and it was a smashing success and since then like I've done it the round tables one of the sales up you know when I started Friday I arranged I remember it was a few weeks in I I arranged the sales up events >> yeah but people always ask me about um um like if there for the speaker that loses his fear >> because there needs to be something that means you respect the audience you You need to respect the audience. If people give you the time that needs you need to have some fear. So, Hashem made a way like people asking, "What do you mean by that?" There's always something that comes up. This is a different audience. This is a different country. >> You ever saw a piping bag that you do icing for? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Cakes. What comes out of the piping bag? There's at the corner there's like a metal tip shapes. Yeah. Yeah. >> So the reason the you can put an icing on a cake in such a nice shape >> is because there is >> a bag that contains >> but if you just make a huge hole in a bag >> there will be nothing. And [clears throat] that's how fear and and >> anxiety should be used at >> to a certain extent. Obviously if if if you're so limited nothing can come out. So you got to open yourself up a bit. But the rest of the fair being afraid like thinking about the audience and everything that's what shapes what comes out beautifully. >> Yeah. So, so it's every single event what I do and I do a lot of events. I still have that you know >> you still enjoy it. >> I love it. I love it. But >> which part? >> I love it because you speak for an hour, you speak for 45 minutes, you speak for half an hour, whatever it is. And this one person that comes over to say or tells you like you're talking about the networking session. I had a guy that came over to me after last time I did it and at one of the events and he says, "I'm I'm new to sales and my my biggest challenge was opening conversations and not and this is the first time you forced me to you because it's facilitated networking. You forced me to speak to 30 new people. I'll never speak the same way again to another person." >> Wow. Impact. >> Impact. >> Crazy. or um stories like like I became my best buddy with a guy I met at a networking session or if I speak publicly you know recently I spoke for 100 ying um they their age made a made of mal and I spoke at the event the followup afterwards the eyeopening conversations I speak a lot when I speak to this that you know every audience is different speak a lot uh going off topic a second I speak about the four wheels of life um like life is like a like tires the 40th life people that follow me a lot probably heard it a zillion times when I when I get feedback that I downloaded that template from my from your website and I've implemented it and I sat with my spouse and I did it together and this is three years later and I could say we checked off this checked of that like it's it's it's amazing because it's not it's not >> sometimes post about people looking for jobs I have this job jobs group >> that I created and probably 20 30 people that were people looking for. >> It's amazing. >> You're setting up a person for success for >> it's amazing and and and and and what what what's the the kicker of all these things is sometimes you would do it like a as a byproduct. The person asked me for 15 minutes I didn't even remember a week later that I spoke to that person for 50 minutes and all of a sudden a year later that person says that 50 minutes changed the way I look at business or I'll change the way I I deal with something. >> So that's amazing. But um let's go back to the journey of a salesperson. Now, one of the things I've seen because obviously our background is marketing. Um, and marketing and sales go very much hand in hand. >> Um, >> I call it a sales marketer. These new newer, younger sales people who really figured out the marketing part together with sales. >> Yeah. So, so I want to speak about it because I think you and how you train your team is to one extreme, which is they promote the company as if it's their own identity. Um so there's definitely you know pros and cons to every type of type of um scenario but the question is does it have to be that? Uh which means is if I want to be very successful in sales and I want to get a ton of leads and referrals and so on and so forth. you have to be the product and the product needs to be you in terms of being able to be out there so people know you for the product so they can refer your business they know about it or is there is there also a way of being successful of being a distance from this is what I do over the you know through my 9to-5 and I'll make cold calls I'll I'll I'll pick up leads I'll return phone calls I'll go to events even but I'm not defining myself my identity with that company because maybe >> guy you remember >> yeah guy or Friday person versus I could be tomorrow now I'm selling construction I'm selling equipment for construction tomorrow I might be selling kitchen gadgets for halls and yeshivas whatever it is so I don't want to define myself um is that is is is so my question to you is is this one of is this person missing out by not doing the first or vice versa this episode of the let's talk business podcast is sponsored by flow digital and pipe drive sales is the lifeblood of every business. 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Speaking from personal experience, I could attest they're the best in the business at setting up CRM and automating the sales workflow. As one of the top pipe drive experts, Flow Digital builds automation and AI powered workflows that handle the busy work. Pipe Drive becomes one of your most powerful tools for your salespeople. As a listener to the show, you can sign up for a free Pipe Drive trial at flow.digital/ltb where you'll get a 45day trial of Piperive. Plus, you'll be able to get a 45minute consultation to get your CRM set up the right way. Once again, that's flow.digital/ltb. So, you get the best of both worlds. You get the easiest CRM out there, which is Pipe Drive, and you get Flow Digital to help you set it up. Remember, your business and your sales team will always thank you for setting the right system so they could focus on closing more sales. >> Few weeks into sales, I came home one night and I told my wife, I've shared this story a lot of times on social media. I told my I I was so broken, cold calling people, no one picked up. I told my wife, if this is what I have to do for the rest of my life, cold calling people, I'm quitting yesterday. I came the next morning. I took that a piece of paper and a pen and I wrote down it was called I don't know like the the title but Pas's uh plan how to get people to reach out to me versus me reaching out to them and obviously one of the first was LinkedIn and I started posting videos on LinkedIn way before it was popular in uh circle I started posting LinkedIn calling myself the payroll guy if you remember and I remember walking down the street and people was like payroll guy good morning And I was like, "This is going to stick." Um, I I I'm ready for the consequence. By the way, I know it comes with consequences. Um, so I I made a full plan of how to get people to reach out to me, accountants, bookkeepers, getting referrals, social media, and everything. If someone is missing out, look, I interview people and I ask them, "Are you comfortable on social media?" And they say, and some people say, "No, I don't want to do social media." No problem. There's many different ways to get clients. I don't think social media is the only way. Same as I don't think cold calling is the only way. As a matter of fact, I hate cold calling. I don't think it's the most effective way to spend time >> for for a skilled >> in the beginning. I I believe cold calling sharpens you. You can see Grant Cadone talking. He's so quick. He's so fluent because of cold calling, because of the amount of people Gary Vee, these people are fluent. Cold calling can sharpen you and give you quick skills to be, you know, these people are they're always on their toes. You can see it. You can see people who have a sales uh background versus an operational. >> So I don't think it's the only way. You don't want to do social media. No problem. What are you going to do instead? Because I have my method in sales that if you do X, Y, and Z consistently and X amount of effort, you'll get X and Y Z results. Obviously, everyone gets a little bit different results, but in pretty much ballpark, you'll get, let's say, for every if you post four times a week on LinkedIn for a full year, you'll you can expect to get, let's say, at least 25 clients from it, etc. So if you don't want to do social media, no problem. What are you going to do instead? You don't want to be less than my team. You want to be So it's just a method. You don't have to. If you're missing out, depends. Some people miss out on cold calls that you do. So, but you have to find a way and very clear defined way of how you're going to do it. So, I called myself the payroll guy. I'm known for payroll. People called me for any payroll questions they have. Not just employers. Employees would call me, I want to file for PFL. My boss did that. this taxes >> questions and and I made it myself a personal mission to understand when someone calls me I don't know I would ask tax professionals and everything and at some point accountants will call me for certain situations and this was a big part of my success becoming a number one expert in what I do I don't think you so you can ask me the same question do you have to be the best the the biggest expert on my team there are people who are real experts in depth some people are not >> you're talking about expert in the product >> in the in the industry let's say knowing every single tax do you have to understand every single tax pay per pay per pay per pay per pay per pay per pay per pay per pay per pay per payroll tax equation to order to be successful no some people are and that's a method of getting people to call them and then others have different methods so >> it's just a method so there's 30 methods to get clients 50 methods you got to use a couple of them you can't rely on one so it's just a method >> so for me it really works >> what is the benefit of it >> that I don't have to reach out to people you get known as the guy for payroll and when I hire someone say I was the guy in my community. I want you to be the guy in your community, in your area, in your neighborhood, in your location, in your shul, whatever it is. >> So, we can talk names. Fin is the guy for liquid real estate. Okay? Doesn't mean everyone buys from him. I'm not doing a shout out. I'm just trying to understand. But he definitely is the guy. It has benefits. Now, there are other agents that you and I don't know their name. And they might sell more houses than him. They have a different way. They probably go to certain events. they connect. They're more Some people say FM is too loud. I want someone more quiet, more reserved. There's no good or bad way. It's a different method. Everyone has to figure out. And in the beginning, I I went into sales. I tried analyzing people. I said, "Oh, this guy is successful. You know why? He's so noisy. Everyone knows about him." And then you meet We spoke about then you meet the guy that's so quiet and has >> every single successful person in sales had a why. So, you figure out what works with your personality. Are you going to be one-on-one deep conversations, deep relationships? Are you going to be the guy that has way more friends, not so deep, but more people, more outreach? Are you going to be the guy that posts on social media and gets people to reach out to you? You, as an example, okay, you do podcast and many different ways. Do you think you need to do a podcast in order to get clients for a marketing firm? >> Good question. Um a matter of fact um we um the podcast people think like okay what's the combination between the podcast and and >> we personally at one point divided the the the brand of PEX and Manny Huffman because there's other services that I do that don't fit the persona what PEX does. So PEX if you call him PEX you you'll get to speak to one of our business development people. >> Do I know them? >> I think he's even your cousin Yasi Khanowitz. >> Ah Yasi. Great. big guy, phenomenal guy. So he he's not a loud person. He's actually more to the introvert introvert, but he was going to connect to you, understand your object object. >> But you want to know something? I interviewed this guy in Crown Heights last week >> and he has he really wants to get into marketing instead of sales. So I said, what did you do about it? Said there's this guy in Crown Heights that people know from PEX, Yasi Khan. He's the first guy. So >> I have to tell you, >> you can say introverted. There's still getting name recognition and brand, but I I assume many people know what you do in marketing just because of your podcast. It doesn't mean that's the only way to get clients and it doesn't mean that podcast will give you success. It's a method. The same as with social media, same as with being the payroll guy or >> does the person need to make a much more of a a lengthier decision? I wouldn't say it a lifelong decision, but let's say if I'm a salesperson for K I sell kitchen cabinets in the construction industry, if I'm not putting myself out there publicly as I'm the kitchen guy, yeah, if two years goes pass by and I want to move on to my new business, totally different, not related or something else, it's very easy to switch over. Do I if I do want to do take this method, I need to have much more of a long-term commitment because otherwise it's it's very it's very hard for me to move from from industry to industry. >> True. But think about the cabinet guy and two years he's having a terrible hard job branding himself again. He made more money as a as a cabinet guy and he's working harder than everyone to switch, but now he's going to make more money because more people know about him. So yes, it might add more work. >> Got it. So, you're putting on clothing, you're putting on a suit, a tie, something that and then you have not to get rid of it, you're gonna have to switch it. Is it worth it? Yes. Was I afraid when I started calling myself the parallel guy that one day I might sell something else? Of course. I thought about it 10 times. I said, "Okay, no problem." So, I'll be afraid for life and never brand myself because maybe I'm going to switch. >> Do you remember we spoke I don't know how many years ago? Maybe 10 or maybe more. I remember still which event it was. I don't I'm sorry. I don't remember which event it was. I remember where it was was the Arman Hotel and you told me it was before the summer season. I want to take out a billboard, put my face and say only hashtag peril guy. You remember that? >> 10 years ago. It wasn't 10 years ago. I I I got into the peril space I think six years ago. >> Six years ago. >> Six years ago. Um I wanted to do that. Um I got a crazy good price. It didn't work out. Um, and I didn't even want to put a and and I remember the guy I was he said, "You need to put a phone number with a special extension to track leads." They don't get marketing. They they don't understand it. Putting Yeah. myself, the payroll guy and people will I didn't do it for many different reasons. I wasn't ready. I wasn't comfortable. But >> yeah, not everything is meant to be easy and sometimes you got to figure out but the other end if you don't feel comfortable, it's not your personality. Do things differently. Okay. So, I want to cover I want to cover it from another angle and this is something that I've heard from other salespeople as as an issue is in terms of their content. Let's say they do post content on LinkedIn is how much are they are they speaking about their expertise versus their company's expertise >> always your yourself. >> So, obviously >> I branded the apparel guy. I didn't brand the company I worked for. >> They got branded as a byproduct which is awesome. And I'll tell you even more. I'm happy that they're staying with what they got throughout the years, the name recognition and everything. It's awesome. Some people are so petty. >> What is my boss getting? What am I? Stop. Just go into a good place where you say, "What do I need to do to become successful?" >> And who cares how many people benefit from that? >> Some clients, they don't allow any vendor to make money on them, right? >> Sure. >> They're usually not the ones ended up being the biggest companies or the most successful companies. You know why? Elon Musk has hundreds of He's worth $700 million. 700 billion dollars or 800, I don't know. He's going to be the first trillionaire probably. Okay, don't uh but if it happens, you'll put it back. >> How much money did people make on him? The last 20 years, >> obviously. >> Way more. So, just let's talk about he only owns at this point a couple of percent of his companies. >> The people who own the shares make the same amount of money, probably more. How many people did he give jobs that made money? Shareholders, people who joined the cars and everything. So I promise you, if he's going to be the first trillionaire, he probably gave the world 20, $30 trillion for other people. It's the only way to become successful. I don't see an other way. So stop being so of course brand yourself, brand your company. Be so open-minded about it. Be just think about what it takes. And and the way I see it, it's my success. It's my college. It's a learning experience. This is what I stay with. >> Got it. >> But I'm not limited to payroll. If payroll is not an industry anymore because AI, I don't know what it's gonna you can switch. I think sales skills, if you're considering going into sales, there's two things that I really three things that I recommend people going today's day and age where things change in the next six months will change more than the last 10 years. the last six weeks. I don't know if you're if you read all articles and if you tried vibe coding or whatever it is, the AI world it's a bit of it is hype. It's not the com bubble. It's not. >> So, it's here to stay. >> It's here to stay. The the the new reality people will find it doesn't mean people won't have jobs. People will find different jobs and different but there's three things I recommend beginners to do. >> Sales no matter what happens. Good sales skills that can turn you into market. >> By the way, this is live. This is not AI. [laughter] >> Okay. >> Good sales skills will be invaluable because whatever no matter what will happen in the world, okay? And and I heard this from Mr. Wonderful. They asked him, "If I take away all your money, what do you do tomorrow?" And he said, "I'll find a good product in a place that people need it and sell it." And this is something you can't take away from me. I love that line. And I think no matter where the world goes the next 20 30 40 whatever years of them sales sales skills is something you'll sell cars and if they won't have cars you'll sell something else. There's always going to be something to sell. Okay. >> Number two is technology obviously if you get into the tech game. Um number three is mental health and psychology. The more technology we're going to have the more mental help we'll need. >> Um and that will be Yeah. So sales skills is invaluable and >> and it's transformable. >> Correct. And if you want to go into a different industry, you want to open a business, business owners that don't that never sold or never learned like sales, if they can't take in a partner, I don't think they'll ever have the sales team they could have had. You need to really understand that >> and live it. >> Let me let me speak out a little bit about the the structure of a sales. >> I hope you got the thing about personal brand. It's not mandatory, but it's so good. >> Yeah. But I I do feel that it's a personality thing as well. People have to be ready for it. And and and >> and because you see somebody doing it out there doesn't mean that you must just copy paste. >> Certain industries you have to I'll give you an example. In my personal experience, the accountants who went with a name for their firm were more successful than accountants that hid under uh a name. So for example, name any successful accounting firm. It's the name of the owner, the founder and they carried their name with pride. >> They wear it and in the accounting space it's you and some people just call tax strategy. It feels less personal. It feels less >> because because that company um I'm coming to that accountant firm because of the minds of the of the leader >> and most of the times that's what it is. >> As well. Yeah, that's what it is. Most of the time it's about the people, the personal. Now, sometimes you can even sell the firm later and have an owner that's called Mosco Muskowitz and his firm is called Burkowitz and Coco, the brand has been established. >> Mhm. >> But I I do believe certain sales are more personal and more branded as a person versus certain industries like if in construction you can switch from this product to that product. I don't think it makes that difference. Insurance is more of a name, right? This guy's an expert in a space. So, it's complicated. >> Got it. Um, but yes, what I do want to make sure that that people walk away with is that you need to your marketing needs to match who you are as a person. >> Correct. >> And and a lot of times I've seen especially now today with with social media or LinkedIn where people will force force themselves to do something which is totally not the character. >> People feel that >> and then they show up and they say, "Wait a minute, not this is the person that I I saw saw online. It's just not matching up." That happens also with people who are very vocal and you meet them. You expect them to be super hyper because of you. You just see them. I would never post a video of me in a dark place or walking into the office one morning. I'm like, "Today is not my day. Let me post a video." You only post when I see social media interviews, podcasts. I know that it doesn't reflect all their life. There's >> 50 minutes of the 24 hours. >> Exactly. Definitely their personality bit, but the moment they have many different moments. I promise you every single person on camera has a life off camera that's different than what you see. >> I like to say every person has a story. Nobody's exempt from having a story >> and and you own your story. >> Wear it with pride. >> Exactly. So um >> but sometimes it's just an anxiety and if I get past it if it meaning you want to post, you have what to share and you just can't bring yourself to do it. >> Get go for help. Figure it out. So, so let me let let's just wrap up this part because we have a bunch of other episodes that I want to cover. Um, I want to try to spend the next 10 minutes on on a very important topic. Um, which is still related to the salesperson and the the part is a lot of sales people maybe they have early success and then they hit a plateau. Uh, let's talk about that that that part of the journey like how do you get out of it? How do you know that now it's going to now it's a plateau tomorrow it's it's a downhill like is there is it time to quit is it time to move on change something out um obviously speak from your own experience you can speak from other sales people within your your team or other people that you've spoken to how do you get out of it there's always going to be blockages [sighs and gasps] a guy called me he made 1.5 million last year he's broke now >> um he wants to change industry and I don't know. Every single situation is different. We I think we discussed uh we spoke about this one of the episodes. There's going to be tough times and you have to push through. But if you have to sell your job to yourself every single day for more than I don't know, let's just say 60 days or 90 days, [sighs] maybe it's time for a switch. >> Mhm. M your job is to sell to other people, not to yourself. Meaning, if you don't feel it anymore, it's not there. The passion is not there, the commitment is not there, your heart is not there anymore. But if you're passionate and it's just hard, that's what it is. Take courage. Change your plan. Change your strategy. And by the way, this is important. Most sales people that hit rock bottom at some point, they have no real strategy, >> which means it went well because they met 100 people. They don't even know why and how. So, this is something I do with sales people often, okay? And it's very simple. How much money do you want to make a year? Let's say $500,000. Most people don't make that. Okay? Chill. 500. Also, sales people, they are so good at selling. They sell themselves. People think they make millions. Let's say you want to earn $500,000. How many clients is that? So, how how do I know? That's you're five years in business. How many clients do you have in total? How much money do you make a year in total? Divide it x by So if you make $500,000 and you have 500 clients, that's easy. Okay. You need 500 clients that pay you $1,000 if that's your average. And you constantly need to adjust. A year later, your average can go up to 1500. You need less clients. So now we know we need 500 clients. Give me the plan. How are you going to have 500 clients this year? And the plan has to be in detailed. So let's say I I I think 100 referrals I can get because I have thousand existing clients. If I call everyone two times a year, check in with them and if I give them good service, I can expect 10% to give me a referral. Is that reasonable? A referral that closes, right? More. >> Okay, 100 covered. 400 to go. I'm going to post on social media. Last year I got 50 clients from social media. This year I'll double down and get 100 clients. Beautiful. 300 to go. accountants, bookkeepers, referral partners. Um, that's for us huge. Almost 50% of our clients come through referral partners. An accountant gets to see how we really simplify it for his client. His client is happy. The communication is good. They just keep on sending us clients. Especially we have the accountant portal. They can see all their clients. That's that's very realistic. We can get 300 clients or three accounts per account. That's awesome. going v like becoming a expert and giving seminars, webinars until you have your exact list with exact numbers. How you get to 500? Now divide it by month or by week even better both. Get your weekly number, your monthly number and all you know is going forward that you need let's say to post four times a week. You need to go to one show a week. You need to there's so like whatever your alleys of revenue are even if it's a business owner it's the same. So, for example, PPC. >> Last year we got 100 clients by spending $10,000. This year we spent two 20,000. We can expect to thou. You'll constantly adjust it. >> It becomes so clear when you finish the month and you were supposed to go to two shows, you only went to one. You know that you failed this month 50%. You cannot expect 500k anymore. You expect 435 or 485, whatever that number is going to be. that when it becomes so clear and visual, even when you wake up in a depressed day, you say, "I don't know today. I have to go to the show because I have a goal of 500K, don't take a uh just a random number what you want to earn." When you make the goal, take a number that you really need. Sometimes people say, "I need my life cost me $250,000. I need that." And for success, I want to save up $100,000. I need 350. That's a reasonable number. Don't round your be very, very concise exactly what you want. divided into action. That's not a goal anymore. That's not a dream anymore. It now became a goal. Sure. >> With an action plan. And all you got to do is execute. Now, of course, it's very easy to do that. It's not so easy. You have to spend a few hours concentrating. >> Every month you sit down, you say, did I put in all the work? Did I make a 12th of my yearly goal? Yes, I'll do it another month. And if no, I'm 10% less. Do I need to put in more action? Let me see. Two months, both months, 10% less. Now, I know the real number. I have to adjust. I can only make 400,000 a list and that's what it is. >> So, so let me just add on this because this has been a a formula actually obviously um this is what you share with your team. I've been speaking to sales people um for years now and I've I've said it mainly the same um concept but a little bit more um um in detail and I think it would be beneficial just um just general salespeople. So the first difference is between um outcomes and inputs. >> Yep. >> And I think that's the first confusion sales people have. In particular, new sales people. >> Yeah. Because they measure the outcome the entire day and they have no >> Yeah. Yeah. So So I don't remember if I shared the story, but this is this such a good story. I have to share it again. Maybe the person didn't listen to the first the other episode. So there's a guy that out of out of Coyle, he's looking for a sales career. He's looking for a job. He sees in the one of the local papers about an opportunity to be a salesperson. He calls for an interview. Goes down to the interview. He sits with this uh this MOA guy. Mosha says um we sell packaging and you could um and and and we're looking for a salesperson. He says, "How much could you make a year?" He says, "How much you can make that sits in the next room that let you in?" He makes $400,000 a year. He gets very excited. He walks out. He's in the elevator. He calls his wife and he tells his wife that just coming out and he said we can make $400,000 a year. The wife says, "No, you took the job." He says, "I have to think about it. Don't think about it. Just go back. $400,000 job." He starts the career. He starts there six months, eight months, not nothing. He's not closing even a single sale. Now, what happened over here? He might be a very good salesperson. The the person failed to share with him that the other Cayam guy um is coming from the packaging industry. He had a book of business and 15 years later he's at $400,000. So it's not realistic. >> 15 years you could be at 400k in >> 10 years because that guy was >> exactly 100%. >> So so so that's the first thing. So the first thing is the outcome is the biggest mistake that people do. So the input Yeah. >> Now I'll I'll do equation maybe maybe it's it's it's it's selfdestru I I think I'll just share it the way I I share it usually which is let's say you want to make $100,000 this month. Okay. Uh let's take it for the year. You want to make $100,000 sales a year just for the for the numbers. Now 100,000 is and let's say your average customer is $25,000. So you need four customers. Okay. Now you know your closing ratio is about one out of four. So now you multiply that four into into um times times four. So now you need 12 clients. >> 16 >> sorry you need 16 proposals in order to get that. Yep. >> What if um only one out of um four um one one out of the four um one out of four clients on um hot lead gives you that? Now the number goes up. Okay. Then >> 64 people. >> 64 people. Now what if only one out of 10 goes from a cold lead to a hot lead? >> 640 people. >> So now you know for the year I need I need to reach 640 new people. >> And if it doesn't work, you make only $90,000. >> Yeah. 750 people. >> So what happens is what happens is that that the first month, the second month, the third month, you could always if something is not working, you could see where is it not working in the conversion of my hot proposals. Is it not convert or top of funnel? I don't even have enough new people. Now go back to what you said. How much am I getting from leads from events? How much am I getting from referrals? And so on and so forth. So that that's that's something I've been sharing. And people always get stuck. What if I don't know yet? Guess what? make it up for the first few months just to get something going. >> Exactly. >> And and I >> try to be realistic. >> This is for business owners and managers. We have >> uh bonus >> that goes per month >> based on um >> action items not related to >> deals or sales. So if you visit X Y and Z accountants, you get XY andZ bonus. >> It's it's two tiers like this number and this number. It's >> not a secret. The insurance industry is is is known for the best training for sales people. Yeah, life insurance in particular, >> always be busy. They're always busy in the life insurance industry. They always this company always busy. It's all about the input. Do the input. Eventually, you'll close those those policies. >> Do it smartly though. >> Of course. Of course. Of course. Um, I want to go back to one point you mentioned before and I think um we'll wrap this episode with that because this is something that probably the conversation you have with sales people um um probably also one of the the it makes it top of the list for me for sure is the what we spoke before when is the time to quit. So you said something very very um smart before and I think it's I want to make sure that that that I understood it correctly which you said a part of of if you have to sell to yourself >> every single day for a long time for a long time then you know that something is off >> I think it's a it's a very important point and I I think that it's a it's it's actually a great way to judge yourself to see where you're up to. Um the only other thing I would add to it and I think this is I've seen it for B particular for business owners that I speak way more than salespeople is I'll give you an example obviously now the Amazon space is not where it used to be but let's say in the earlier years when it was very successful Amazon seller would come to me um I don't know sales dropped um I don't know what to do and I always ask him is it traffic issue or a conversion issue he says what do you mean I just don't have it's huge difference if If it's a traffic issue, we need to figure out strategies to bring more traffic to your listing. >> If it's a conversion, it might be the price, might be the images, might be the listing. >> So, >> I think a lot of people, let's say in sales, they get to a point is it's a I don't know, I don't know. >> Exactly. If you cannot start parking in, so a lot of times I do this exercise with sales people or business owners. I say, you know what? I know you have a bad day. I know you have a bad month. let's take the next three months at least observe where the issue is in the input which part of it is because sometimes it's very fixible and they end up quitting great career jobs just because they figured out okay I'm not a good opener I'm not a good closer I'm not a good to get them from one step to the other okay you could now master that piece of the of of the of the pie master that that skill and all of a sudden things change and and sometimes because you're making this one big mishmash you don't the results and that's what so goes back to the input we spoke before see which which of the levers in the input part is where you're struggling um anything to add on that >> on the other side okay people often quit because this is not for me or they constantly see better opportunities >> I want to share a thought don't take it too literal and it's scary to think about it okay >> there's a thousand% chance there's a better job there is definitely Definitely a better industry. Always, no matter which industry you are. >> I always tell accountants, the first thing I know about your firm is you're not charging enough. The accountants tend to charge less. Okay? I don't have to ask how much you charge, what you always char, there's always going to be something better than what you have with whichever car you have, there's something nicer. There whatever house you bought for your price. You bought a house for a million dollars. There is a house in a better neighborhood for a better price. It exists. Therefore, some people have analysis paralysis. they can't make decisions. The smarter thing is it's a fact. It's a dark fact. It might not be comfortable. But the fact is you don't have the best. So settle for something that's good enough. You know, some people never buy houses. They go they My uncle's a broker. He sells a lot of summer homes. And he told me he has this guy that's been trying to buy for eight years. And he comes, he says, "How much is the price?" 220. 220. Last year was 190. Next year 250. I should have bought last year at 220. It's been going 8 years. In the end, he ended up buying for $750,000 somewhere. >> So, what's your point? >> Just because something looks better and you see something that, hey, that industry is now going chill. Every single industry is good and know for a fact there's always going to be something better. I'm in the peril space. You think I don't know for a fact that there is a space that might have treated me better. There probably is. I chose this. It works. If I have a problem, I fix it. And only if you really have to sell to yourself, your job. Don't look about other people. If you have to sell your job every single day for a long period of time, then you know my fire. The best sales people sell with heart and with passion. That's something you can't teach. >> Yeah. >> If you don't have passion and heart for something and sometimes you can choose when I said there's better industries. Some people are in the worst industries and because they're passionate and they love it, they make more money than other people in better places. Or how much money they would have been in a better industry in general. For them, it's not better. If you if you like something, you're passionate about something, that's your space. Don't look for so when we're talking about is my industry the best or is it time to quit? Take out other industries from your equation for a bit. Obviously, you have to measure accordingly. But look at just your industry. How can I make it? Where am I going wrong? Where in the process am I going wrong? Where do I need help? You know, some sales coaching sometimes it's a tiny we said switch, a screw, >> a tightening. Some people just have problems closing. They get so many. Like if you have thousand leads and you can't close, you have a closing problem. Don't say you have a problem. You have a closing problem. You can work on it. >> If you don't have enough leads, you just if you're closing every single person, but you only talk to one person a month, you got to figure out the more you analyze it and don't I know your sales people are extremely emotional usually. Put your emotions to the side and just analyze smartly together with a friend, together with an outsider. Make the right choice. That's a wrap for episode number six. Could you believe it? >> What was the topic for this one? [laughter] >> Exactly what we covered. >> So, uh, >> thank you. That was a >> six episodes. Um, how do you feel >> when I talk from my heart? That's why I said passion. I become passionate. I I don't stick to the topic. I don't It's passion. I hope you feel it if you're listening to this. >> Absolutely. >> So, it's it's six episodes and we have um additional topics to cover a lot. But we'll we'll see the time and as the feedback will continue to roll in, we'll know that we're on to something. >> You know what we haven't spoken about? It's an obvious. Who should we ask for for money? >> So, it's so good while we talk strategy and go into the nitty-g gritties and details. And of course, it it's it's a given, but we still I I still think sometimes we get So, >> you want you want to hear a story? I had a guy that um a couple of years ago, he was an employee in a company and he really was, you know, sat with me a couple of times just to make a decision if he wants to move on to to run his own business. And I gave him all the pros and cons and I coached him through the process. It was the right decision for him based on all the facts and everything. Three months in, I met with him again and I'm just getting a status update. He says, "Manny, you shared everything with me. He left out one most important piece. >> What was that? >> And I I was trying to say what's that one thing? He says he didn't tell me I'm going to change how I dab every single day. >> Wow. >> Because I was an employee and I felt that I do my job and I get my paycheck now because I run my own company. Every single morning my don is just so different. >> Wow. You know Kazal says that the people on ships on huge boats >> sure >> have more shayan because they have to pray their life is in >> but that was that that was an eye opener. But uh we we could do whatever it is. >> You know what else I started enjoying since I started the company? Shabas. >> It's not a vacation day anymore. It became something so much more meaningful than that. >> So I'll share with you. >> I don't know why. >> I'll share with you. So a couple of weeks ago then in it says um >> what is the shis of doing the work all week in order >> is if you're able to work all the all week because you want to be able to enjoy a shabas afterwards. So it means is you're making all your weak Hashem says I'll give you because all what everything you're working is only because of [sighs] >> you have [gasps] to end for this one. >> My goal is that everybody listening to this um should be successful because so when KL has money they only help each other out. >> Yep. And if you want to make more money the more money you're surrounding the people surrounding you make the more money you'll make. So >> yine them. >> Thank you. This episode of the Let's Talk Business podcast is sponsored by Flow Digital and Pipe Drive. Sales is the lifeblood of every business. No sales means no revenue and no business. So, if you are a business owner or in sales, you already know how important it is to have a proper CRM. A good CRM helps you manage your sales process and keeps leads from falling through the cracks and make sure you have the proper reporting so you could analyze what's happening every single day. If the CRM is too complicated or not set set up properly, the team just won't use it. When that happens, leads get lost, follow get missed, and ultimately deals stall. That's where Pipe Drive comes in. Pipe Drive is an easytouse CRM designed to make tracking and sales process simple. You can see your pipeline at a glance, move deals forward, and make sure you never miss a follow-up. And with built-in AI, get insights to help you close more deals. But that's not all. Easy to use doesn't always mean efficient. That's where Flow Digital steps in. I'm personally a Flow Digital client that helped me set up the Pipe Drive at PEX. Speaking from personal experience, I could attest they're the best in the business at setting up CRM and automating the sales workflow. 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