How long do I need to Date? - Rabbi Alon Anava

[Music] yes so if you if you know that you have certain like certain charactertics that are important and the person you're out with you're you know you're not like overly attracted fig you're attracted to like when do you know after how many not after how many dates but like do you keep going on dates because with every date you get more clarity or is it just like you sit there and that's it you you know very clearly no did you hear the question I'll just repeat it in a short version how do you know how many dates so to say you need to take in order to have the clarity and if you you know you see some good you see some bad I'm changing a little bit the question how do you basically bottom line how do you know when do you get your Clarity let's put it this way right right there's no black and white answer because some people get their Clarity the first date and some people date for half a year and they still don't get the clarity I see that the clarity comes when the person is spiritually refined that's that's how I see it I've been helping couples for over 10 years I see that the clarity comes when the person is refined spiritually then again you don't have to be super duper Orthodox Jew you need to be refined and one of the things that messes up this refinement is when couples start touching that's why in the Torah we're not allowed to touch when we date and there's a reason for that because if that's not my wife I'm messing things up spiritually and if it's my wife I'm messing things even more up cuz she's not I'm not allowed to touch her right now and when the Torah comes and tells me you're not allowed to touch that person when you're dating it doesn't matter if you're going to marry him or not there's a reason for that going back to the same concept of this spiritual spark that each and every one of us has you're not allowed to it's almost like eating for the from from the food you know you have this beautiful buffet and you coming and you you're tasting the the food from the buffet so spiritually when the man and the woman then they start touching each other I'm not talking about about intercourse even touching it messes things up that's why the problem in our generation people meet first of all is the physical attraction and the physical relationship and then they're trying to build some type of relationship above that and half of the relationship are based on appearance that's one of the the problems you have to have attraction don't don't get me wrong if you're not attracted to your other half there's nothing to do do there has to be attraction wait but it that's the that's not the base for the relationship now to to really answer you about the clarity there's no black and white I know people that after the first day they're like that's it I didn't know I just know and some people they go for a here and they can't I can't figure it out I find that the clarity comes is the more the person is refined spiritually the person is refined spiritually there's no schutz there's no dirt spiritually they see things clear that's how it that's how I see the the success rate and unfortunately you know there's no success rate when the person is not following the the rules of the Torah let's put it this way then they don't then they find themselves in this turmoil of of of a problem and I know this is not something that people like hearing because people seem okay it's not fun what you're giving me now these strict rules but the more you refine yourself in the spiritual level then the clarity comes so you're saying okay like we were talking before you don't have to have you know 100% perfect you see the good all the good the good has to totally overpower the bad you can't marry somebody because you know one thing is good and the rest is bad the good has to overpower the bad but there's always going to be something that's going to make it a little bit bitter that best ratio is probably like 75 25 75 has to be good 25 okay I'll deal with it and that's the problem when people are not willing to give up this 25 like no I'm not I'm not backing out I'm not backing off from this so again to make a long story short the clarity mainly comes when the person is spiritually refined and unfortunately there's no black and white I can't tell you oh from date 1 to date seven it's like this date seven to date nine no depends on the couple depends how they conduct the dates some people you know the first date is yal it's not good I'm sorry I'm being so direct but that's the reality and then it puts too much confusion excuse me it answered my question but the point is that it's not only for you it's the clarity has to come why you know the Torah tells you not to be connected physically during the dating process cuz that's what puts them the confusion I like him but I don't like him and that's the problem that's why the Torah is being very clear hold yourself if it's your other half don't worry you'll have enough time to be with him and if it's not why do you need to get into this headache isn't that kind of contradicting in the sense to physically cuz if you control yourself how do you know the girl is because she wants it to and you want it if you have the control how do you know that she she knows that you want her physically because marriage is not based on anything physical and if you're basing the date and the marriage on the physicality that's a mistake you can also talk about you can talk you don't have to be physical you can talk about your attraction you don't have first of all that's just words you know no first of all let me tell you you can say tell you something else I'll answer you that Pro I could attracted to all the girls here sting let me tell you what is that doing I'll tell you when there's a real attraction yeah physical attraction that's you show it no no no when there's real physical attraction you feel it what you feel it in what way you can't touch her so how can you feel that's why you feel it or she can't touch you right it's not well it's mutual if you can't touch her she can't touch you it's it's mutual you get to this spiritual through the physical it's connected now you're messing everything up now can I talk about spiritual you're missing everything I'm I'm going to answer you to talk more specifics about you say spiritual because if it's love byal then you know if it's love between you and her it should be okay then right so why wait until after marriage because because it's nothing to do with true love it has to do with I'm going to get be with you in a second it has to do with not opening your birthday present before the birthday you open the birthday present before your birthday you ruin the party it's going to get ruined anyways cuz you're going to P the rest of your life right no no no no the thing is this is a you you you kind of confused everything here but the point is spiritually right now not about physically spiritually when a man and a woman are together when they're not allowed to they mess things up that's it whether they whether it's the other half or not for a man and a woman to be together when they're not married it's a very big sin very big sin each other nothing to do with love how does it not to do nothing to somebody you don't love it's nothing to do with love right now of course you have to love the person you're marrying I'm talking about the physical act if physically a man and a woman are together and they're not married that's a sin for anyone a sin let's continue this maybe afterwards because how is that a sin prove how do how is how do you prove a sin is stealing is a sin then how is it sin right is stealing is stealing is a sin huh stealing is a sin yes how do you can prove it love is then you saying is a sin right then that's a fine line between L and love then there is a fine line cuz if you think I'm not talking about love I'm talking about marital inter I'm talking about physical intercourse talking about love is that lust or is that love it's physical [Music] intercourse something do with love or lust there's a fine line between there's no line there physical intercourse is a physical intercourse yeah we could have this one later we'll do one on one yes um I wanted to if we could talk a little bit about uh simulation especially in our day and kind of any thoughts or like any anything contribute to that that's a very long one let's see if there's any short one but I want to get to that because that's extremely important yeah answer your question I think how do you know when you see the person how you know when you feel it I think um having to talk about values goals that you have in common what single person that you see that you want to uh accomplish in the future together I think when you have shared goals something to look towards and talk about a spiritual kind of thing talk about think when one learns about like their V and their character traits and learning thear um these are ways like the you know actionable ways that people can take control of their learning so they can help perfect themselves for sure you know what you're saying you're saying something very smart it's kind of going to answer also you when you go on a date and you're looking at the last you're not going to get it anywhere you have to put fine line okay I'm just joking I joking I'm sorry I woke you up when you're sitting in a date you want to look at the other half like a train track train tracks are 100% parallel if you move a train track 1 mm down the line they'll start separating so you want to make sure that the person you're sitting in front of you is parallel if that person is parallel you're never going to be separating away from each other and the being parallel is exactly what you're saying that you see okay how I'm going to if I'm can I be with that person in 40 years are we going to think the same way in 40 years because you can change the city you live you can change your job you can change your house you can change many things but if the two people are very parallel to each other in their opinions in their in in their thoughts in their beliefs most likely they're not going to start splitting away and that's where marriages stop working because it starts splitting away and the physical attraction is part of it but has nothing to do with it because people love each other when they're 80 and there's no physical attraction when you're 80 trust me they love each other they spend time with each other they love each other they hold hands you see these old couple holding hands they don't look at each other how she moves her T when they're 80 love that is parallel now when you sit in a date you want to see these I don't know if there's even a word parities but parallels that's what you want to see that's kind of what gives you some type of clarity and you're saying are we parallel here or in 5 years things are going to change because of the mood and the and the and the climate so hold on hold on I want to get to some other people about the though if you were able to control and fine tune it then can you find your true love or not really nothing you're not going to get rid of him well then how I'm saying the one in a sexual way though you control you control in a sexual way are you able to get the P that you want so wait so we're going to do dinner is it a question no to what extent should you be annoyed by by the other half by your other half you don't want to be annoyed the the the right relationship is that they're not annoyed at all I'm not annoyed with my wife we have things that we don't necessarily see eye to eye or don't agree with or certain character traits that I don't like but we know we don't annoy each other you don't want to be annoyed at all that's the real marriage now I'm talking to get you into Thea how to tolerate the other half that's a different lecture but you want to get to a point the real marriage that nobody's annoying anyone that you leave side by side with a person that you appreciate that you admire that you like that's what you want don't settle to an annoying person and say okay let me see how I can tolerate that person it's not a test of Tolerance the reality is that when you're looking at The List of Demands you have to be realistic and you're saying 70 80% is very good 20% I'm not crazy about it but I learn to tune myself to that person to make a point that it's not going to annoy me if it's annoying me that's my problem not that not my other half you control [Music]