Israel Uncensored: It's Time for Israel to Declare 'Victory'

gosh hastened here Israel uncensored on the Land of Israel network at the Land of Israel calm according for Monday December 3rd 2018 the 25th of Kislev five seven seven nine happy Chanukah to all of our listeners around the world who celebrate the holiday of Hanukkah I hope it is a truly joyous festival don't forget you can always get in touch with me during the week Josh at the Land of Israel calm on Facebook it's Joshua hastin and on Twitter at Josh hastin so on today's program I am going to play a lecture which was given just the other day here in Israel by Daniel Pipes the president of the Middle East forum and publisher of Middle East quarterly he spoke at the beggin Sadat Center for Strategic Studies at bar-ilan University the title of his talk was why Israel needs to win and the Palestinians to lose so Daniel Pipes has a movement will it's called a movement called the Israel victory project and he says that before Israel can reach any type of agreement with the Arabs in Judea and Samaria whether you're in favor of a one state solution or a two-state or whatever your vision is Jordan is Palestine or whatever it is he says that first before anything meaningful can happen the Arabs have to recognize the Jewish state of Israel is here it's here to stay it's a reality the Arabs must recognize also that they lost they lost the war they lost the war in 48 they lost the war in 67 and Israel is the victor and until the Arabs acknowledged that fact that Israel is here to stay we're just gonna keep going down the same spiral of peace process after peace process with no end in sight he believes that it's critical not only for the Jews but for the Arabs of this area to acknowledge Israel's here to stay Israel won its an Israeli victory and the Arabs lost and then we could move on from there so without further ado here is Daniel Pipes I'm a historian and as a historian I've noticed that Wars end when one side gives up it's actually quite intuitive so long as you and I are each ready to fight the other the fight goes on when I give up you win the fights over there are many examples of this through history one particularly obvious one is World War one and World War two the Germans lost in World War one but their cities were standing there armies were still effective and so they didn't believe they really lost and so they tried again and the second time they tried the Allies realized they had to convince them that they had lost and it worked and no one in Germany or Japan or Italy or elsewhere has said let's go and try a third time so with that in mind his background I've been watching since 1999 the israeli-palestinian diplomacy and its problems and I concluded that there are two different ways of seeing this conflict there's a conventional one the one has that has been in place since 25 years ago in the Oslo Accords and presumably will still be in place again when the Trump plan is revealed which basically tries to please the Palestinians it is essentially appeasement it is essentially saying here Palestinians take this and leave Israel alone it hasn't worked clearly and more efforts to make it happen will not work just as the Kerry effort did not work a few years ago so the next effort will not work and that's because of something deep which is what I call Palestinian rejection ISM which goes back close to a century can be most easily dated to the appointment of Haj Amin al-husseini in 1921 the rejection ISM was far more severe then than today but it's still there a an unwillingness to accept Zionism the issue State of Israel no no no now during this century I would argue that roughly twenty percent of the people we now call Palestinians have accepted Israel issues Zionism and been willing to deal with it but the large majority has not been willing to do so and if present trends continue they will still not be willing to accept Israel so something new is needed as I said for almost twenty years I've been brooding on this topic and I've come up with the idea of Israel victory which is to convince the Palestinians that they have lost that there is no hope they are a miniature version of German Germany Japan Italy and other defeated states in 1945 if they must recognize the Jewish state in order for progress to take place I see the Palestinians a little like hero or nada anybody know who hero or nada was he was the Japanese soldier who continued to fight until 1974 and it seems like a bit of a joke but it wasn't he was in a Philippine island and for 29 years from 1945 to 1974 he was destroying property stealing property and killing people perhaps one person a year it was not funny it was serious and finally his superior officer was brought to the island and told him lay down your arms the Emperor tells you to end the war and he did but the Palestinians are a little bit like them it is clear it's almost the same amount of time that they they acknowledge defeat in 1993 on the White House lawn they acknowledged that they couldn't win and yet they continued on and on now why do they do so they do so I think for three reasons one is Islamic doctrine the notion of a watch the notion of a territory that is once Muslim control that must always be Muslim control and this is a powerful idea that gives spirit to the notion of smooth of steadfastness that inevitably this territory and this is not just any territory but a holy territory will return to Muslim rule secondly the Palestinians are enthused by the fact that they have worldwide support unique worldwide support this is not some obscure African Liberation Front that no one's heard of this is the cause that gets more resolutions in the General Assembly of the United Nations than any then the rest of the world combined and I think the past decade there was 68 resolutions concerning Israel and 67 about the rest of the world in departments of of universities in on the streets of major cities the Palestinians have a support that is unique in the world that's two sources the doctrine Islamic doctrine the second is international support and third I would argue perhaps more controversially is Israeli policy Israeli policy towards the Palestinians over the past decades say since 1993 has been timid soft cautious defensive and has led the Palestinians to think that they are winning Israeli policy the security establishment the IDF Mossad bet police border police and so forth have treated the Palestinians in a very conscious way fearful of another Intifada fearful of the Palestinian Authority collapsing dear full of having to take over and supply food medicine water energy security and so the security services have been very very cautious and this is the third reason I think the Palestinians have a sense of optimism but no matter how bad things look today in fact they will eventually win it is that spirit just as hero inada thought on his Filipino Island for 29 years that he was part of the Imperial force that eventually would win it is that misguided spirit that needs to be broken the the Israeli government I believe should seek victory over the Palestinians the Palestinians need to be defeated now these are words that are not normally used in modern discourse modern Western discourse we do not talk of victory and defeat Palestinians do in Syria they do in Libya they do in Yemen they do but not in Israel not in the West more broadly the word has disappeared I have a search engine I put in the words of Israel victory into the new search engine and it's quite amusing because it either is 1967 borders Eurovision those are these no victims nothing in the past 70 years except for 50 years since a song and I think this points to the disappearance of this notion a victory and yet again as a historian if you look at the history of warfare going back millennia it's always been about victory if you go to Sun Tzu if you go to clouds it's if you go to Douglas MacArthur you will see they all talk about victory there's no doubt that victory is the gold wars end when one side gives up it doesn't matter what the weapons are the victory is defined as imposing your will on the enemy so the enemy no longer tries to achieve his war aims I personally lived through such a defeat on May 1st 1975 when the United States lost in Vietnam it was a complete defeat we did not run out of dollars we did not run out of bullets we did not run out of manpower we ran out of will and we lost and no one in the United States has since in the 43 years that followed said let's try it again let's go back it's over we lost so I've had a personal experience of defeat now the timidness on the part of the Israeli security services has meant the time and again the Israeli response to Palestinians has been weak we saw this just two weeks ago 469 missiles and rockets and yet it cost nothing to Hamas a ceasefire was agreed upon same thing with the kites and the balloons earlier this year same thing a year and a bit ago with the Temple Mount murder again and again while the public and the politicians want to do something in general the security services says no don't do this and I would say that is the number one obstacle to an Israeli victory the security services to my suprise when I started looking at this topic I thought it would be merits and the left know they don't really count it's the security service who is so important and so reluctant to take any step that will signal to the Palestinians that there's a price to pay it is unimaginable that the security services would agree that when a missile comes over from Gaza or Lebanon any other action or hostile action that some retribution take place that the water the food the energy the medicine something be cut off it's unheard of so the that the situation goes on and on the Palestinians have this optimism and the Israeli security establishment has this pessimism and nothing basic and the outside world believes that more talks will solve the problem so what I on my organization are proposing is a shift the shift that starts here where Israelis seek victory and then moves to the United States where the American government the American president says yes that's what we do we win our Wars to victory and you do the same and finally goes to the Palestinians who are forced to understand that the war is over and they lost now there are a couple of interesting implications of this approach the first is that we are solution agnostic we are not in favor of one state 2 state 3 States we're not calling for sovereignty in the West Bank we're not I see a number of friends here we're not advocating the humanitarian paradigm or the Emirates of the Jordan espouse fine or the new state solution all of them are fine well not the one state solution but the others are fine not joining us Palestine but the others are fine I'm not really new state solution there but anyway some of them are fine we're not advocating any of those but we're saying that whatever your goal is whatever your plan is it's a good idea to have the Palestinians accept Israel that would be helpful no matter what your specific plan is and by the way it's helpful for the left as well it means in leftist terms ending the occupation it means not having to have guards and walls and borders and all that that they are so upset about so it should be something that is attractive to both left and right because we're not saying that the final resolution is X Y or Z we're saying that's appealed all we want is for the Palestinians finally after a century to come to terms with Israel we welcome everyone to join this effort but we ourselves do not take the position on borders resources sanctities and so forth we remain neutral so we had a big dispute and two weeks ago between the prime minister of the Defense Minister when we say out of it the Education Minister we stay out of it we're glad that victory is being discussed but we don't take a sign in it the second point is that Palestinians gain yet more than Israelis think about it Israel is a flourishing country you live here you know that I could cite you all sorts of statistics but happiness surveys water demographics ordinary rise and the Israeli birthrate culture rule of law and so forth standard of living Palestinians need one say more do not benefit from all those attractive qualities that Israel has only by giving up of their historic irredentist claim to this entire territory only when they recognize assuming the Jewish state of Israel can they begin to develop their own polity economy society and culture so long as they are focused on the negative goal of eliminating the Jewish state that they will remain oppressed backward and poor the only way forward for them is to acknowledge the permanence of the Jewish state of Israel and the interesting thing is that this seems to be in the air not among Palestinian so much as among other Arabic speaking and some non advic speaking Muslims the as I like to put it Israel now has better relations with Saudi Arabia than was Sweden better relations with Egypt than with Spain possibility of diplomatic relations with Bahrain president of charge Azerbaijan things are changing on the Muslim side the flip side of that I might add is that the left is becoming ever more hostile to Israel so you have Mohammed bin Salman on the one hand as a representative of the new Arab thinking and you have Jeremy Corbyn on the other hand as representative of the new British thinking not everything is going in this rose favor but there is a an atmosphere of openness to Israel that has not existed in the past so the deflation of Palestinians Palestinian ambitions is necessary for them to build their own polity economy society culture to cultivate their own garden to build something worthy of skilled and dignified people so long as they have this notion that they can win that they can destroy eliminate the Jewish state there will be no profits and as we saw the past 25 years have not helped indeed things are worse what is euphemistically called the piece bosses should more accurately be called the war process things were better in 30 years ago 25 years ago than they are today in the Palestinian polity there is more aggression and more hostility more more arms than they were back then so to conclude our work is threefold first to convince Israelis that the only way to end a war is to victory the second is to convince the US government to endorse an Israeli victory and the third is to convince the Palestinians that it's over the war is over they lost time to move on towards the sin we have undertaken both intellectual and political goals on the political level it's easy to point to the fact that we have 26 members of the Knesset who have joined the is Israel victory caucus we have 32 members of the current house will go down in January but now it's 32 we're joined the Israel victory caucus there we've spoken to many leading politicians and then on the intellectual level whoa Here I am talking to you we are engaged in writing in commissioning studies we have a team in Israel that is headed by Danny Simon team of five that is working on the subject we have a team of two in Washington and we're trying to get this out as a subject to be debated the the basic idea is very simple Israel wins the Palestinians lose as the title of this talk is but the implications are very large and very contrary to the assumptions of conciliation mediation compromise good-willed and so forth it is sometimes difficult to talk about victory and defeat but yet there is no avoiding that's how Wars end through victory and defeat international Wars and through victory and defeat there is no avoiding it and what one finds as many efforts to avoid it to finesse it to find some way of reaching an agreement of having the other forces come in of leasing or splitting but they won't work so long as the Palestinians believe and they do believe us 80% believe that they can illuminate the to a state of this one it won't come to them now the good news is the 20% of Palestinians do accept it historically and today so the goal must be to increase that number from 20% to 40% to 60% to convince the Palestinian people and their leadership that the path that they are now taking is futile is not going to go anywhere the only way for them out to prove their lives is to admit if he acknowledged that the century-long conflict has come to an end the emperor assigned the Japanese government has signed the acknowledgement of defeat the war is over time to rebuild truly was a very interesting lecture given there by Daniel Pipes and it seems that his movement the Israel victory platform is gaining steam both here in this country and in the u.s. we will see how it shapes up anyway that's all the time we have for you today on Monday December the 3rd 2018 the 25th of Kislev five seven seven nine Hanukkah hope you're enjoying the first day of Hanukkah the festival of light and only good things to all of our listeners wishing everyone who celebrates Hanukkah a truly joyous holiday my name is Josh hastin this has been another edition of Israel uncensored here in the Land of Israel network at the Land of Israel com get in touch with me during the week Josh at the Land of Israel calm on Facebook Joshua hastened and on Twitter at Josh hastened big shout out to my main man Binyamin brettski for all the work he does and getting these shows up along with Tabitha Epstein for everything she does to make our network grow and that's all most importantly between our when we speak again please got next week everyone out there and the wonderful world of ours be safe Shalom Shalom from beautiful Israel hi this is Josh hastin host of Israel uncensored and on behalf of all of the show hosts here we want to wish our listeners all over the world a Happy Hanukkah and all the best from Jerusalem happy holidays from the team here