Kosher Specialties - Wine, Cheese & Meat Q&A On Kashrus - Rabbi Zalmen Krems

roof of my boy am ashaming sheer terror my sis bus and like to welcome everyone to tonight's sheer IQ big extra cash to have lasers diamonds of ice paints are sponsoring tonight's year it was like you reassure care to the other sponsors tonight she is exclusive in ich muss from a fog it's luck but I react abuse is going to rough us our off I said once your remaining tap around exclusive about stairs Robin once your remaining for the summer night serum but of course you can sheer terror continues serum throughout the year called a t-shirt at seven one eight eight five one eight six five one email tape Center at Yeshiva net.com photographs closest sponsoring this year over here or throughout the year Sunday morning or other Chanel other serum tonight we have a special opportunity to have with us two national casters advisor of as almond cremes discuss coaster specialties wine cheese and meat we also have a review that you saw board noted asking the field of casters to ask the shyness will be showers of trooper format or cover the corner of a crimson tonight share good evening it's a pleasure to be here and talk a little bit about Cassius usually Cassius is something people don't like talking about that much relates to too close to home as we say so first of all I can make a disclaimer before we start and you know a lot of and legalese they always write because of whatever the fads in the world is in the 21st century that every language is inclusive of male-female whatever so everything's inclusive of all different Cassius agencies we're not we're not out to get anybody and we're not going to be speaking about one Cassius agency in particular the general topics that relate to Cassius so it's just important to note if I do as a slip of tongue mention a Cassius agency's name I'm not calling anybody out and I will try not to but if if something such thing does happen it should be noted that it is generally applies across the board there was recently a story that was circulated in ancestral from a B it's a gazelle Bastien the awesome son-in-law that there was a family that made an event somewhere and they brought in a private much gear and this private large gear was being paid by the family it's a suited to make sure that everything was kosher and the this much gear noted that there was some problem with the meat that was being used he wasn't so sure it was so safety not conscious necessarily the food was perfectly kosher but it was off a little bit so he mentioned something to the chef and the chef threw him off the chef says it's none of your business you mind your own been paid for Cassius you take care of Cassius keep keep your nose out of the food preparation side of things and the event went on lo and behold the next day everybody had food poisoning so they came to ask the Shilo do they have to pay this much gear or not they wanted to withhold the chef didn't get paid that would wasn't happening right but did they have to pay the most gear up or not so those yeah I said what you mean you hired me for food I I notice I mentioned this to the chef the chef threw me off the the chef told me get lost right none of your business what do you want from me so interestingly enough there beats like a zilberstein again this is printed in some one of his things that came out recently not one of this farm around I was in a brew but one of these loose Shabbos and a long name I don't what to call it here in this country you know newsletters and they he said no they can dock his pay because he was negligent he should have should have notified them that there's something wrong I it's not really what you hired him for so of course the conscious world is here here this and everybody's like oh this is if we start yeah how many much get someone gonna get fired nothing is gonna last there won't be anything left we won't be able to eat anything the reason I'm telling this story is just that we all understand the scope of how far cashes goes Cassius doesn't just start and end with a basic 'cimmanon shahara and just what some of us might think is common sense it goes beyond that and there are some cashes agencies in the world that have tried attempted to partner up with other third-party auditing companies whether it's for vegan certification organic certification so on and so forth some of them have noted had realized after going in these type of endeavors that it's not so easy to do because the second you're privy to the information and conscious agencies are involved on a much deeper broader scope than most of these third-party auditors have ever are at best they come once a year sometimes every two or three years if they're doing a physical audit whereas gafas are doing you know if it's a restaurant obviously there's a hot minutes but we're talking about in a in a you know there's constant supervision but when you're talking about in a factory most places there's no much gas there's no coaches supervisor on site at all times but you're there on a quite a regular basis when you're when you're involved on such a level you will always find things that don't not every T is crossed and not every I is dotted so so I had it how do you how do what so the norm in the United States for a regular Cassius setup is usually once a month that's sort of the default in the normal non non hey machine has gracias and but it obviously depends on the product some products might average gajja Tomatoes they might have full-time supervision even with any regular normal into an international or national agency or local VAD and some products might only get a visit once a year again it all depends on what what the exact product is again back to we're holding that was to understand this breadth and scope and I heard of myself I I live now an ancestral but before that for five six years I ran the kvh the Vaticanus of Boston and when I moved there at the Boston rebel not not initial but the Boston of Boston Massachusetts asked me to go speak with his muttons Schware or Omaha whitson bar park is enough to a few years ago so he yeah one of the things that he told me is that when he was a dying and in Devine Aquila and they asked him he said they certified a bakery you have to eat bread so they sort of had a bakery you have to make wine for kiddush right so fine we said if I wine I guess there was it probably some small Chiquita is well it is certified they came ask him to certify a restaurant he said that odd con that's as far as it's going it's too much to take responsibility for he couldn't fathom how to to deal with something that it's just not a necessity again this is 50 60 years ago tell people it's not a necessity today maybe I don't know if people would agree with that statement but again understanding the scope of what Cassius is and what's involved you have a serious huh shovel ruff that's that that that when you bring up the idea of certifying something as dynamic as restaurant every minute things are changing and that's something that if it's not absolutely necessary he felt that it's something that's hard to do and it is the famous truer from the Satmar of the other site was was today and so we were missed not to mention that if I believe the the near bata and the velvet rose father in Hungary still wrote a a question to the Satmar of asking him about a product that he's certified and something wasn't a hundred percent and the best level of way he wanted it to be and so he asked if he has to make a disclaimer on that as Gaza so he's gonna write right on the package kashiraj go haas and you know the knee about there of but does he have to write a disclaimer that it it's missing something and maybe a louis responded and it's a long Chava I don't know exactly the exact format but he responded something along the lines of no of course you don't have to anybody that's buying a manufactured product knows that it's not mahajan minima Hajin min imagine it's it's just not possible to get every single thing bar Hashem things have moved since that point to a level where there are a lot of products on the market that really are a hundred percent mahajan but again understanding that scope of the complexity of Cassius and it's not it's not always as simple as it looks one thing that's important to note where anytime we're talking about as Gahan many people there's a book that was published a few years ago somebody put it I forgot the name what it's called about the academic made a study on how the Jewish community is self regulated with cashes agencies we've created our own self-regulation system to supervise these factories it's not mandated by any government it's not mandated by any entity but it became a successful regulatory institution or institutions and so some people think this is a modern invention rajagaha is created in the 24 21st century which to certain degree is true however if we look back and most people associate modern-day caches with a tech on of a desired size there was a Jewish self-government governance in Europe that for a few hundred years controlled Jewish life one of the Tucanos that it instituted that the uranium the later commentaries mentioned is that they instituted a rule that nobody should buy product it's not so clear there's a few different sources and exactly what the Turkana was but you should not buy at least more conscious sensitive items like meat wine cheese and that are not certified by some rabbi and otherwise you just you're not allowed to buy it it's at the corner of a dollar has it so most people associate conscious as we know today with that edict however if we go back in history kazow we find already that this is not a new concept there's a whole sea fin Shahana of matteri initial nakri a guy wants to make wine and sell to the jewish community and obviously if somebody that worships idols or is not the shomer Shabbos then it can create problems with winemaking so you have to you have to do it out in a kosher way that it's controlled by by people that are that have namo nose so there's a similar talk about that what goes back to the Gemara of course there's but there's even a more interesting source which i believe is you shall me the whole concept of my true Masum Isis that if you're not sure if true Muslim Isis were taken there was a Takano from a bit from baron-cohen ghazal to that if there's if there's a product that you don't know for sure i'm or you're buying produce in Manama or 'it's then you have to take to masa misers miss Suffolk because of the my so the mission er there says that the yum of you don't have to ain'tcha Alamelu deny you don't have to take too some Isis from to my the Shaolin he says why because ka hey me the Dubois he appointed Zhu guys pairs of timing aha men that went around again if this is all yours it's Earl adjusting you shall I'm doesn't really say that clearly but at least in you shall I'm I would assume he had time in Holland that went around and made sure that every stall that was setting selling produce in the shook and not like today where things a little bit heavier even if there is a certificate it's not always the way it should be but anything that was sold then you did not have to be shy a lot of my you did not have to take Truman some ices from that and everything was good so we see that this concept of setting up some kind of a Scala system to make sure that what Klaus show is eating is kosher and the best way possible goes back literally from the time that huzzah made at econo on something being austere do my meet me there Isis motor right called the purge Maroubra perish but they made it Akana that not too from that point on they put a system in place to make sure that things happen and so on throughout throughout history when we're talking about our office you have to divide them sort of into two groups two large groups there are like I said before Vatican isvalid art says it just says as long as there was a a a has got from some rub from some I've Bayesian in some place it could be is on personal endeavor or you could have a cassius system that is a community institution it's a keehi lagoon chef it belongs to the community nobody is making a personal buck on the on the business and you can have private abundant aren't making money either but it's their own their it's their own personal name that's involved as opposed to when something is done as a community now there are pluses and minuses to both of these if you have a community organization this is more common with smaller communities but it happens on every level up to the biggest cashes agencies if something is a community institution then there's communal pressures they're people involved in the community either they have certain needs that afternoon be met or players that have their own reasons why they want something to be done so there's been many times has been stories where the cashes professionals the rabbi's involved don't want to give us go huh but the balla bottom so to speak they you know they push that there should be as going be given why because all yankles are friends and even though that everything is that perfect but yeah because our friend we have to we have to make sure it happens um on the but you have a private as gajja to a certain degree girl let's prone to that pressure cuz you you don't know anybody anything it's it's my own personal aaj go huh so whether who's gonna tell me yes or no um the the flip side if a person is doing something on his own behalf especially if there's money involved but even without money covered is also worth a lot a lot of people are swayed by covet and so therefore there's always going to be that that concern that the person might end up making the wrong decisions because of that so these are two important pieces of information to weigh whenever you're looking at are jaha who who's standing behind this Asghar is it a community or is it a private person yeah a rough house of a roof but a private individual so just to recap a little bit before we get on to the three main points that on the topic and we can recap where we are a little bit the scope of cassius is very very broad it does not limit itself just to conscious itself there are a lot of interpersonal involvements whether it's things that can get spoiled and be served or dealing with people that are there in the kitchen or in their factories and how far do you want to take - cajas do every single product in the world has to be certified somebody comes up with some new crazy idea of doing something we have to certify it or are we limiting that to things that people need then who decides what people needs a B C is the question right and then understanding what the type what the format of the has Gotha is it is a person's private as gajja is it a communal house god that's something that's very important to understand so the three topics that we put on the agenda for tonight which we're gonna talk about briefly that we're not gonna spend here the whole night and meat cheese and wine why were these three things chosen well anytime a person we're sort of in vain as mine and when the summer period people travel more they go out of their element and when people at home most people at least have their regular items that they buy they have the you know regular shopping list today they have apps people order things online or you go into supermarkets and they have haven't seen it actually over here but actually in the Hamish market over here but necessarily they have you walk into some of the grocery stores you can get these handheld devices and you scan the things well actually keeps in memory of what you actually bought last time and ask you do you want to rebuy these things and easily add it to your cart cart and they they they know everything so um when people are in there at home and they have the regular items that they buy it's very easy to set a certain cache or standard either specific as gajja specific brands specific items that either you have a first-hand information you verified you know what for whatever reason it is you say these are products that I feel are at a conscious tender that I want or there are some people that will buy any product with whatever has got has they rely on I have my 10 15 20 100 1000 whatever number of us go has you want to rely on and that your rub tells you to rely on and I just buy it I don't care what stands behind it the difference between those two different dynamics we'll discuss briefly we get when we get to the next three points and but when something's at home it's very easy to do that the second time you start traveling and they go outside of their element it might be even just across across the Hudson River all right might not be a very far trip and all of a sudden the same things that they're used to buying aren't available it's something something's different you know I'm always used to buying my hamish item and all of a sudden the Hamish the things doesn't exist when I was in Boston and I'll preface this first with one other point and before I was in Boston I lived in Oregon there was a I worked for the huff Kay mainly at that point and they sent out a survey to all of their staff and I remember all the questions but two questions I remember one of them was if you go into a supermarket and you buy a piece of mazayas by Danish cupcake turnover croissant do you assume it's dairy or do you assume it's perv do you assume it's passing soil or do you assume it's passed palter too soon right what do you what's your assumption and it came out that anybody from the results if I remember correctly it came out anybody that was Mac but on holidays well they never heard of dairy croissants dairy because it just doesn't exist in the hall we sell variety so if you're buying things in a Hamish restore it almost doesn't exist good add sasural actually does exist which makes things very complicated but that people are used to what they're used to if you live in Brooklyn you live in Flatbush you live in bara Park you're not gonna find these things unless you walk in the shop mark shop shop writer or you know one of the non non Jewish chains so when people have their area where they are used to buying the regular things they know a certain level so somebody called up is doing us a estimate Chuba somebody called up and I can say what town they were traveling to but they were driving down one of the things the kvh has is they certify a whole bunch of Stop and Shop stores in store bakeries the ones in this area not certified by a by the kvh and main reason why it was not wish I'd tell you and it's time was because the rabbi's didn't local Robottom here did not want it to be certified so the kvf said they're not gonna do it but of course we know that the world of business doesn't work that way so some other rabbis certified it and so this woman called up the office complaining that she was driving down the Thruway picked up a box of croissants had a symbol on it it's kosher and she went to the deli counter deli refrigerator and bought some Empire meal Mart I know whatever bring of Delhi and made herself a husband a sandwich and hey the sandwich driving back home and halfway through the sandwiches this croissant tastes too good and she looked at the box and I give out it says theory on it buzzer oh ho by Oh what's going on so she's she called up complaining how do you certify a dairy croissant see we know that the halacha is you're not allowed to have dairy bread you're not allowed to make a dairy bread so she's saying croissants bread so the National Asghar has the general way that conscious world works is that croissants are not considered bread they're considered a pastry and pastry in most place can say is not considered part of that Zehra of passive Alevis of bread that's daring and therefore there's no problem it did say it said theory on it said very clearly it was smaller whatever the details were but the point is this person never even thought for a second that croissants would be dairy well what kind of have I mean it you have on such a thing right who would have thought but yes it's possible it all depends on what you're what you're used to say the second you go out of your element it's it's a these are the questions the three questions that we put on the agenda that I put on the agenda to talk about a little bit meat cheese and wine those are the usual questions that people think about meaning when people go to a restaurant in an out of town place that they they're not familiar with one of the first questions that they're gonna ask you all that that's our though well what type of sleeps are you using here you know on that same vein people will turn around and say ah it's only a dairy restaurant right what's gonna change that what's gonna be well what's gonna be a problem well let me tell you this is usually more problems in dairy restaurants than there are inflation restaurants it dairy restaurants are just as complex if not more so people have this misconception that if it's a meat restaurant then we need a much guest we D we need somebody there full-time because there's a Halak of bosch ascenta salomon i mean i we don't really pass the combustion in fellowman iron like people use that terminology again we're not talking about Buster's salad I'm saying it's not as black and white as that is well but that's the that's what people know the hype on and then they say to me we need a much guest media but a dairy place doesn't necessarily and it happens to be that dairy restaurants can have just as many problems if not more whether its Basilico problems because the lime problems questioning and checking infestation dairy restaurants tend to have a lot more veggies than flashy restaurants there's a lot more veggie checking date to go on so so what do you do about that so these are the three things that generally people will end up asking Peck they'll ask about what wine is being used doesn't meet my standards or not what cheese is being used and what meat is being used so I'll just talk a little bit about that to understand what those issues may be and somebody mentioned to me recently about a certain certain location North America again I'm not gonna use names exactly but a certain something came up in the Katyn in the community about what street that they were using and there's a signature of their on this in this town that's involved in as gaha and they said no no we can't we can't use that Street some groups that we can't use be the women don't cover their hair up to our standard they cover their hair just not they don't they don't wear tittle they were a they live all these and he was just flabbergasted yeah like you're coming up with new things that doesn't say anywhere but yeah there are some communities that they're marked with that the shocked him that they're there they hold them up to a higher standard than they Robottom that they were higher in the community and finish the street that what does that mean so citrus Rita doesn't mean that much in essence meaning the historically citizens were for you to refer to a Maha Lycus that existed two hundred years ago about Sachi NEMA lutetium but a way of how nice was sharpened from both sides one side what exactly that means very few people to know today even though shocked him it's just it's so out of out of touch but the officially became a verbage that was used in the United States in Europe almost nobody uses it and after all doesn't exist for she that of people that were more Ella I don't know this for a fact but I was told Brewers kaj their makuhita why because and there were problems with shoved him in the 40s and 50s and in Rabbi brewer said that he wanted to copy the Satmar reverse Rita because that was done properly so you just copied it copy and paste exactly what it was so that sort of ended up being um but sister Sita when people generally talking about it they're talking about three points at least that's what the iron I grab the Boston I was my real hope that they want this shouldn't be any bokram that are involved in Chile this shopping should be with people that are married and have a have a real and rious and the beard should be full beard would not not the trimmed in any way shape or form what that has - Lita again different point but that's something that the students were very Mac but about and and then one of the other things is that shuck them should go to MIT go to make for every day be before Chiquito which again what might have to do maybe it doesn't it does brought down a hill hostess Rafael Donna Donna how authoritative that is a different debate but it is something that is mentioned and it's something that the the citizen community is mac but about up to a point where i wants to speaking to a duck farm or somewhere in Pennsylvania and he said that he told me what brand I'm not gonna say what brand it was but they did a one time a duck production fifteen years ago and in order to do that duck and duck production - gajja insisted that he install a mikvah on the farm so the shopton can go to the mikveh before her before sita right they did it once it was a one-time investment that didn't pan out and one of the other things that comes out with meat which is not so much nagar to america but it isn't a get there is is wrong on this particular point there are many different points is how exactly you do the nikkor is nikkor done and that's it's all there was something that's called nikkor you shall me which is not the way Europeans or Americans do she do nikkor and some of you might be aware that nikkor is a it is an expertise but it's also something that people generally associate only with the hindquarters of the animal but it is something that's also done on the front corners on the hind corners there's there are deer rice and nicker that needs to be done to take out hail of and indeed inertia and Ashkenazim for sure even man is vitam generally don't do nikkor at all is a debate if if it was done properly if he knows we're allowed to eat it or not among supply skim but it's not it's not readily available with any normal haha for sure not in North America and the but on the front of it that's in the hindquarter on the front corner there's also nikkor that needs to be done because there's get a dam there's blood vessels major arteries that need to be take that need that the blood won't come out with Maleeha with salting so there were there were two basically two different ways how to deal with that you're the regular way that is done in the United States and it's done in Europe was to take out those entire arteries in their entirety in Israel for whatever reason the Minik was to only puncture those arteries so they puncture the veins in America you'll be very hard to find a nice looking tongue for for Rosh Hashanah or whenever you want to buy a tongue during the year why cuz if they take out the veins there's two veins that go through and they butcher up the tongue doesn't look very good afterwards in Israel you'll find beautiful looking tongues no problem because they take out they don't take out the vein they just puncture they stick a knife through in a few places and you're good to go so if you're somebody goes somewhere and they have meat of a different variety and these are points that are important to them then they might want to refrain from certain shrimpies so it is an important question to realize it to understand what is my standard what is what are the things that I should be looking for as an individual Jew in cloudy throw and when I'm looking at me am i buying any meat on the market and I'm just saying ah I accept has got plenty on my knee I'm buying it no matter what or no I want to make sure things are done properly there are Jacquizz that stops slaughtering in South America because there was a very high issue with da e with da cows or other operations that were done on the cows that might render them a trayful other rajagaha they continue slaughtering their da is a acronym for displaces spasm its it's a Mackel at the type of disease that cows get from a bloated a spasm and one of the ways that they solve that is they puncturing the stomach it affects the dairy industry but it affects the entire cattle industry and so there are ways how to detect it whether it's practical or not is another another question in the dairy industry in the United States they don't now that we talk about milk but we shifted the cheese in America they the Hajus remove all such cows from the herds so that there's no concern in Halawa so milk in the United States at least it shouldn't be for having milk that came from a displaces Bassem which a cow that might have a Shia love Shaffer and it's its role they actually don't remove these cows they do operations with a much DF present and to make sure that it's not done in a way that renders the cow a trayful and those are debate if that's good enough or not is it physically possible to see everything is it not physically physically possible that's already a level of detail beyond where we'll be able to talk about tonight and so again shifting from the meat talking about the da cows into entered into cheese so what does all of you strong if you want cheese that you want it to be holiday style as well what exactly does that mean does it mean that there's a much get in the vicinity the docket uber brings down that there were people it's it's not it's rejected laa-laa obviously and he brings down forgot from whom but there were people in Europe that they wanted to make cheese or they needed milk for the community so they put one month on the centre of a village and in in that village there were let's say 10 different farmers that were milking their own cows so there's miss gif sitting in the village so maybe that's considered yay ship it's out the edge really it's sitting on the side of the of the herd and you're able to see well not really right now but if I walk another five minutes I'll be able to see real so maybe that's good enough alright so that was rejected it's not accepted norm but our people that they feel that's perfectly fine so is that a type of quality so all the type of a cheese that you would want to eat okay you know again if you're Rob says that's fine I'm not I'm not gonna argue one way or another it's for sure not what is considered normal to my walk-on not normative Cassius in the 21st century and again like I said the daca to have already brings down it's a rejected approach so if you do have a mask yeah we know that it is a 4/4 Halawa for milking notes of indicas is enough what does that mean years of analysis much di coming once a month once a week once an hour once IV five hours what's that frequency it makes a big difference so there are so much girls that will insist on much gear has to be there the entire time not necessarily because it's how logically man they did because you have to according to Sahara but because it becomes it starts getting to a debate of neatness vertical shear of exactly how long is ten minutes or not 15 minutes enough at what point is this become just not not sustainable and not I'm not black and whites always wrong and so that's the first step of making making cheese the next step of making the cheese is obviously the cheese making process itself adding the rennet and there are some of us that have for various reasons over the years the the norm just is to set the premise and most our office in the world for I since as far as I know everybody's been doing this they have a much gear put the rennet and put the cultures inside the the milk in order to make the cheese it's what we call my mid be a bistro to make the cheese buy it by a Jew the shock says it's a requirement if the milk and the cheese operation is not owned by a Jew it's a requirement not just to see that she's being made but it's the requirement that the Jew should actually be involved in making the cheese process it's not black and white laa-laa but that is what was accepted by virtually everybody there are some of us that have moved away from doing that in specific scenarios why cuz it's not practical for whatever particular setup it is is that a type of cheese that you want or not so again if you're accepting us go across the board he's saying I accept rajagaha X and then they have this thing that is something that is not a standard that you want so so how do you reconcile those two things together so if you say I follow the house god no matter what that's great then you don't have this problem but if you have a standard that you want to follow then that becomes a little bit more difficult most cheese-making has the has something that's called brining process they're not just adding salt to the curds but they take the cheese and they soak it in brine brine is add of a har if it's a sharp food if the Brian was traif or if the brine was in a tray fat in a van that's not kosher then the cheese that would be made in that brine will also be not kosher so you can have kosher brine kosher cheese that was made Venus Easter all with Hall of history everything was done good up until that point but then you put into a brine tank that the brian was kosher up until a minute ago but you put it into a trave brine tank right so now everything becomes straight everything can become a problem so how are people dealing with this so this various different ways how is go house deal with this problem obviously the best way is to have your own dedicated brine tank and you avoid this problem but it is something that that comes up and we'll get there in a minute what do you do with low temperature cheese's so cheese is when cheese is being set up when you're setting the cheese there's a temperature that you need to add the cultures I had the rennet that it needs to be set at so generally you're going to be heating up the milk to get to that temperature so how do you look at that Klee do you look at that Klee as if it's cold because it didn't go past the odd sea lettuce because it didn't get hot that you would burn yourself or recoil from it or do you look at that as a Klee as a vessel that is below yeah it's a lettuce what's the difference a big difference if it's below you have two lettuce if it's lower temperature then technically the vessel never became traif but if you're looking at it well it is on the fire right there is something that's heating it up so in realistically speaking at some point there is a very high heat so if you touch the VAT while it's running it you actually might recoil the milk itself might not get hot but the CLE might so it's a complicated question I'm again I'm not saying one way or another different conscious agencies different abundant different ways of looking at this but it's a point to be aware of that it's not a simple matter of ah did you make cheese did you have a much gear there yeah damage yeah there are everything is covered no this is this level upon level upon level of minutiae that goes into making sure that this cheese or this meat is being done at a level of conscious that one might desire which brings us to wine wine is probably the most complicated thing Cassius why's why one would think that meat is meat is pretty much the only thing that we eat that's a real dare right so and wine coming minutes assault can get into there Isis may be but the and for meat is the only thing that everywhere does meat froak you have one split second that is very complicated this is a my secrete itself afterwards I'm not saying everything else is simple but everything else you don't have to have done only by Seamus Shabbos Muslim Eurasian I am where if you do things walk off by one second by one millimeter you get into a black and white tray first question if you put a little bit less salt a little bit more salt it's not gonna be as for the meat and in that's astral I I think in America there's only one slaughterhouse I think that does this but maybe there's more but I think there's only one but it has you saw the most of the better our thatha's they have the militia by chickens being done only by bimah by Shia Shabbos l hang the light that are that are that are doing the militia but there's no real requirement to do that and one can debate even if it's better or worse again not the topic but it does have its downsides when you deal with wine anytime you move things can go wrong so when you're talking about different levels of us Gohan I've been by many wineries both announcer so on Anna Hotel arts you go to some wineries and you see the - Ghana has to say perfect system nothing's perfect but as perfect as you can get you you literally can't move dal Adamas without the most yeah shadowing you you just can't the place is under lock and key literally right almost like Fort Knox lock and key and you go to other places and and it's more lacks more relaxed so yeah maybe I look like a from guy so they let me walk around anymore but you see sometimes places that they allow people that are not theirs and don't look so from so when you're dealing with wine it's a lot more complicated because all you need is one split second that somebody touches it that's not authorized and nobody knows anything with meat you have one time that such a thing can happen the base has straits itself and we don't entrust that to anybody but I must get but but the Mushaf them and but the wine you have multiple people that are roaming around that are involved in the wine making process that's a very very big question how is that being controlled so yes does every winery have a much gift there they all have a much gift multiple must give him but how tight is that control in air too strong there are two more things that come up that people just don't think about they thought thinking about wine they go on a tour they're too salty visit a winery and everything looks great but then they don't realize that you have two more problems trimmer semester's obviously which is a very complex because if you have grapes coming in at zero from you kind of games coming from three different regions and one might be a trimmer some Isis vadai one might be two Muslim Isis Suffolk and one might be putter entirely and you can't take tumors of Isis from this Suffolk or the poplar on the vada so you have to not keep very very very tight oversight and tracking on which grapes came where and where they're being stored and what the quantity is and it's very easy to mess this up because they take too much some ice is usually only once and be around too much about time a little bit before that and that's that's it so if they didn't keep track from the time of the vintage until it gets that stage it's very easy to mess up truism Isis oral is another problem that America doesn't exist because the koalas are law how Suffolk are liberal foot sources motor investigate it we don't look into it in hot starts in ancestral as-safa Karla's uh sir so it's a big big issue and it's very hard to track that unless you're tracking it literally from the day the the grapes were the vines were planted and making sure that they don't get rejected and other growing properly and nobody nothing is withering away and then the replanting um okay some eyes how are things being sealed up and controlled in these wine operations so it's again it's a very very detailed question how are the how is the control systems you have much given controlling everything and everything's under lock and key it is Fort Knox but okay things get sent from one place to another they go on a tanker how is that being control there's a lot of different details in how that's being set up and then of course again as you saw there's almost that it doesn't exist but I mentioned before I'm Italian Ischl nakri if you're dealing with a winery that's not Jewish which almost every winery outside of ancestral is dealing with such a setup they're all even the ones that are fully sharing my shop is owned fully Jewish owned wine companies they have some element of their business that's not being done in house it's done being done outside and they're sending wine out so how do you deal with that it's very very complex to deal with setting up a format of entire initial nakri in a way that is a hundred percent across-the-board acceptable there are there are literally some opinions inna llaha that will according to one opinion it will be fine according to other prep union will be not fine in what this one solution will be the other one will reject so to get all of opinions under the belt is very very hard to get done I think we need to wrap up a little bit we're gonna go some Q&A points so I hope we touched on some of these issues of meat cheese and wine in the general Hodge gajja aspect I just want to finish off with one more point and then we're gonna go to questions and the Gemara in the beginning beginning a Hollen Mishna says hackles shocked and with some chay-ara and the Gemara gives a few explanations for how to explain the Mishnah because it's it's sort of contradictory taco shop diamonds but the evident really that make make that much sense the halacha that's derived out of that sugar in the beginning of the Gemara is is that again this goes back to the shtetl today we buying meat in a supermarket we don't have a way of going and checking the chaffetz knife but the halacha that's brought down in chauhan Arsenal hadashah is that you're supposed to check a shaker tonight before you chefs your chicken ah shucks that your chicken already and you can't check it before so you check it afterwards hey you can't check it afterwards because he's gone then uh that's when we're all about now where we fall back on this default this this never we don't have a better choice so we're falling back on this hackle shocked him and we're relying this in Maharashtra says you can rely on something tell me the Sahaba ear you rely on the sages that are in the area that they were sure would not allow a tacola a major issue of traif is being sold in the community so that you can you can fall back and rely on that the point I'm bringing the bringing this Gomorrah is because we should not fall into a trap of saying uh there's a symbol everything is good house godless make mistakes musk you can make mistakes and if consumers are not vigilant and don't care they don't ask questions they walk into a place they don't ask to see the kosher certificate it expired six months ago hey Raja has switched their the rabbi was miffed her there these are things that happen all the time right this fine print on the certificate that if you would have read you would have you would have realized something doesn't make sense there's recently a MYSA right there's someplace in Monticello some casino that they copied is certificate from somebody else and they just put it up on the restaurant wall and there were people that went in ate there right so some people say ah shun down the place and I'm saying I shot another people that are eating there you didn't read the certificate you would have seen right away the thing looks like a forgery right so again it doesn't doesn't pop to these do whatever the casino for putting it up that's not the question the question is why aren't people not looking at what it says in caring about those ethos and if people do that then we would have a much better massive on of caches so we should remember that the ideal is not just with us and share but the evidence after Mahalo that we should be checking before we do it and not after the fact relying on lenience ease question yeah there's such a type of a drink called protein drinks it's usually used to made it made out of soy or some of them didn't have actually used to be made out of way today we start finding caution ones even with Colavito and protein drinks what are the issues regarding kala v Solan way and OHSAS - I love everyone are high yes so way is a complicated topic we're not going to be able to cover the full range of the topic but let's just suffice to say that at least in the United States the cassius agencies have for non Holloway so I'm talking about I've come to a consensus that everybody agreed upon and to follow pretty much the form of almost all the pie skin I mean they took Hummers on both sides all three sides and way is not considered kosher unless it came from only kosher ingredients of cheese whey is the liquid that comes off of cheese making so when you make cheese you take a gal like let's make it simple 10 gallons of and 10 pounds of milk and you make it into cheese you can end up approximately depending on the type of cheese on it with one pound of cheese and nine pounds of way okay so when they're making a whey protein dink they're taking that way and they're drying it and then they're adding that dried whey powder to the protein shake so the consensus event amongst our jatha for haul of stop not for Halloween so is to only use way that came off of kosher ingredient cheese's that were made below Yahtzee lettuce they were made of a lower temperature so that it should not absorb any any flavor anytime and from the trave cheese okay cuz the cheese if it was not made kosher if it's not Guzzi nice Easter all the cheese is trave right but the way can still be kosher again for all of us on that holiday stroll as long as it was um as long as it was made at a low temperature and with kosher rennet sure all the ingredients after because of the Calum have to be kosher and that is what can pretty much the consensus is the reason I'm saying it's complicated because there's some place going to say that way is traif it's considered part of may may haul off it was never mutter in the in the Hetzer of milk what's being diluted to port here is Abram in a high and who said milk is kosher is coming from a live animal we know that the rule is that anything that comes out of a live animal is is considered a vimini high but there's an exception for milk because the terrorist says they observe us all - so milk is for sure something the terrorist Matthew the terrorist said what so weighs a part of milk but may make all of the Gemara says its Mikus again it's beyond the scope of now but it's it's not simple the general sock is that way is kosher and for Hall of stomm it's relatively easy in the United States most way is kosher in Europe that's not necessarily the case the main issue that comes up with way like I said before is the ingredients and how the way itself is being made but like I said it's also a dried product where are they drying this way so in in the United States most at least as far as I know from what I've seen most way is being dried and dedicated dryers for the way industry they don't even dry milk in the same dryers generally in Europe from what I've seen that's not necessarily the case a they dry cheese they'll dry anything else and it's a brother in the same dryers and but there's also a lot more traif cheese in the market meaning cheese it's made with Traven greedy ins and shave Calum above yeah it's a lettuce and in Europe then there is a net zero the other point to raise with way is that there are some price scheme that were more lenient if there's anything that's I don't see anything butter is the most lenient thing but the I think we're Budiman and Baltimore from there all he was he was not there way even for people that America always know so there are sheath isn't something just to be aware when you're rating what things are bigger issues and lower issues way is a lower issue than any regular Hall of Ockham product so the air sister all has on these type of things aerosol will always have an advantage because I'm gonna repeat the question the question again was is there is an advantage to Israeli wines over Italian American French Australia New Zealand whatever kosher wines what Spanish yes Laila Argentinian Portuguese and we need a port in our vermouth in our bar Mandy in our burgundy and whatever yes so artists all will always have an advantage on anything any on anything high-risk like this because at the end of the day the majority in the country keeps kosher the majority of the cut of the country you can debate if they're really my holiday shoppers before has he or not you can even debate that it also even though they're not all from you can debate what that translates in reality so therefore the the the the environment is much more friendly to Cassius their wine companies here in America I I was recently in a winery here that they told me that they arrived I'm Ashley again I'm not gonna use names but they're of a master was very very happy when they asked him to certify the place because there's only Jews on the premises so there are people are not firm that work there right but they're all the entire staff is a Jewish staff so again it from a dynamic of making wine ah sir right that's not yeah Nessa buts Tommy a numb as long as you have a yahoo the involved it's always gonna end up how logically being less complicated than the second year of Graham the Rambam said err Muslims have a different in we don't pass in that way but again you have to know what exactly you're dealing with if you're dealing with China India or pay places that are really Ava never desire then it's a much much bigger problem and yes ok dish soap liquid soap liquid powders liquids or powders that wash dishes to be they require extra could use detergent regular detergent so as far as I know that consensus and most of the pie schemas is that there's no real problem with it may occur add in and things that are used for personal hygiene there is a rumor of seasick Rossio that anything that you slather on your body is a form of consumption and therefore that wood has a bigger stringency it's actually interesting to note if anybody anybody likes history in the United States if anybody looks up any of the old prepay saw ads in Jewish newspapers or general newspapers from the 1800s you'll find that they were selling kosher meat matzah wine and soap that was one of the things they always made because soap was made from lard it was made from tire from typhus so when it became Pesach everybody was very from and everybody wanted the kosher kosher version and but the consensus of the pie scheme is not to be Mac butter up to the point where there are some pie skin so much gothis not gonna name which again that they won't even bother looking of the ingredients actually are kosher or not I mean there are so much gothis I don't think this is right I think it's also a problem wish but beyond the notch I love your idea all right people assuming that there's God's doing something that they simply you want us got on soap no problem here's my pay that pay the fine and here's the stamp of approval because we're means motive it's a lot smoother and the the consensus of most American National Hodges office at least I say most because just cuz I don't there might be an exception is that any detergent even if it's laundry detergent has to be using kosher ingredients only they might be make Ilan Calum they might be may they might be more lenient on certain things that on how that's being made but the ingredients in that laundry detergent that has a kosher symbol on it in the United States are all coming from kosher sources there are no animal by-products in there um what or soap the same thing I'm saying I'm saying the consensus here of the National Law School has at least is is that anything that certified Kosher I has to have even if meet siddhaloka it might be a hundred percent motor if you're putting a kosher stamp of approval on it the ingredients have to all be come from a kosher source what that's a different point that's a different question why but if it's being certified you have to make sure that it's being done with kosher ingredients okay fresh fish that you want to buy in a non-jewish fish market there's issues with the bottom there's issues with Calum but as a regular person I have to know when he wants to buy fish anywhere besides the kosher fish market so first of all if you live in Flatbush that shouldn't be a question you buy in the kosher fishmonger and you don't have to deal with that problem and one of the what when I moved to Boston somebody one of the meeting a man there in the cradle came over to me and asked me if he can buy again the breadless talked about the croissants before in stop and shop he said if he can buy the bread there so I told him why in the world did you buy there you have it you have a bakery that's closed on Shabbos you know everything is done properly attired sacrilege so to speak why would you go something say gave me this whole thing his wife works until 8:00 and he finished his car late o'clock tonight the only store open was a stop at shopping and shah's they're open until 8:00 Oh fine now we're talking about different story so if you have a reason why no talk to your oven and find out what the if you should rely on on the be the average I'll have Leela's right and that's something that the Mahajan but a card in any time you're buying fish the first question is you have to have C Mon um if there's no C Mon a dog him if you can't identify the faces kosher which generally means you have to see skin on the fish and we've need some karelis monnet Brack is the most map of the hotel Shani he's the most Mac Mac mare on this he doesn't even rely on skin he wants to see physical scales he says that there's no Makara Liholiho that buddy khuskhus kasi meaning the space that's left over the indentation that we all can tell that there was a scale there there's no MacArthur that's a sim antara and therefore unless you actually saw scales on it it's not kosher and that's the most math mashita and there are more more lenient cheetahs that if you can identify the fish most common example we salmon most people I think in this room would be able to identify a salmon without any question maybe you wouldn't be able to tell me if it's a sockeye salmon a Pacific salmon a chum salmon or an Atlantic salmon or Norwegian salmon right you wouldn't be able to tell me that but you would be able to tell that it is salmon maybe maybe you would get it confused with some types of trout maybe probably not maybe and so there's some people that will rely on that there are houses that rely on that as a simin and I wouldn't say that it's a consensus is it's not it's debatable but as long as you can identify the fishes Koecher than the fish there's no problem to buy the fish the next question is cutting it up so anytime that you're in a non-kosher environment and and again it's very very it's very easy for people to make a mistake and say uh all the fish are kosher I have a relative that lives in some country in Europe and he told me ah the fishmonger over here the robber in the community allows everybody to buy fish there cuz all the fish there's kosher I walked over them and one of the types of fishes they had there was not kosher like I have no idea what the basis was for no idea but assuming that the fish is not always kosher which is the general assumption you make sure that the knife is clean and ideally you should bring your own knife to a fish shop but if you can't bring your own knife as long as you make sure that the knife was cleaned properly with soap and scrubbed with a stainless steel or you know brush or whatever it is and there's no some newness no fat left over then there's no problem to use that knife for cutting fish and ideally the cutting board should be covered with fresh baking papers and other cutting on that and not cutting cleaning the cutting board is not really practical they put down fresh butcher paper and they cut on that and that's not a problem if for some reason one of these things cannot be done then you can still get the fish you just have to do what's called keel oof or shift off and wash the fish off under water and scrape away with a the back of the knife or a front of the knife and scrape away those areas or you can cut off a small sliver of fish from any side where the night the traif knife was used for cutting but again in an ideal setup nobody should ever need to do this but you're traveling you're going on vacation somewhere there's nothing else available ok vitamins over-the-counter medications formulas like golf golf drinks you know all these things or Belski stood here many years ago not many and he said that cough syrups you better do what your grandmother did take hot chicken soup because most Co Serbs had then for sure glycerin which was not kosher what's the matter today what's the story with vitamins at the hell out and what's the story with chewables not vitamins over-the-counter medications so the first question that comes up I mean anytime you're talking about chewables and and and swallowable z' and pills and these type of things is is this something that's uh sir the the rule in hahaha is that anything that's traif asked once it becomes a nor or Legare the governor calls it doesn't isn't ah sir so if you have in theory if you have a piece somebody told me actually this recently that the haven't verified this but i've been told that the hi i'm kenny have ski and he can't go for the full day underneath the fisherman kipper without some kind of a little bit of fluids so he makes a very very bitter tea like 100 teabags inside of a pint of water and you can't drink it it's it's Mama's not palatable but it is liquids so he says it's problem it's table problem it's not not a food item anymore and he has less than a share of that so he's doing sort of both things drinking less than a share and drinking something that's problem to make it so that the it's again haven't verified this but this is what somebody told me recently the point is is that not everything that comes from a shape or origin necessarily become straight so again like I said with the soap nobody would certify such a thing a kosher as Gaga would not certify or should not certify vitamins unless all the ingredients in that are kosher and that being said there are Robottom that are placing that that have no problem with people taking vitamins and or again any type of pill over-the-counter medication that is not that is not that is not certified and again i said some there's different levels on what you consider to be within that level some people will only rely on things that you need for something that would fall under the category of Hilah Shane brace Akana nobody's talking about so the che stuck on a cloud sure anybody self not even a small even maybe even a meatless you have a fever a fever there's anything anything that's for a pain reliever and and then there there are those that will go that's on one side and but they won't allow vitamins right which is viewed more as a preventative measure not necessarily real medication and and then there are bottom that will say no even vitamins ooh codes so it's a really a logic question that people need address their own private row of how they should be looking at over-the-counter medications and vitamins as a general rule once you go past that general rule then you have to look at the ingredients and see what's in it usually invited all these things are usually and again besides flavors and a few other ingredients you can usually tell from the ingredients how big of a problem it is or isn't and the glycerin that you mentioned glycerine up until again this is something that people when I started off with people we used to our comfort zone what we're used to so people still hype now on glycerin some of us still - oil I was just dealing with a rabbi and certain are talked about oil somewhere and he was like but the oil find me find me the trefoil find me the company that's making now lard rendering fat animal fat in the same rendering machines that they're doing vegetable oil it came out that not saying that oil doesn't need a scar there are other things that can come up with oil that would be problematic beyond rendering animal fat but this issue that that existed in the United States 50 years ago there are some people that still think it's relevant today the same questions not necessarily relevant glycerin used to be a massive issue today again to say what the percentages I don't know if I would say a percentage I I will say that I've almost never seen animal-based glycerin anywhere right it's Kim apt not around and I was told that in Canada it's much more common than the United States every country is different every kind of your so in Europe I've not seen in Europe I have not seen it yet in Europe I'm not saying that I can't think that doesn't have heard there's some other people and as it's all that go to many minute that I think the the I don't call it consensus but I think that the vast majority of must give him claim that animal glisten is not really make it in the food market there is a claim that that is going to be changing sometime in the near future because of biodiesel and whatever and you know after you have to follow trends these things can change from one day to the next so it is something that's very important to know I'd say glycerin I would not say that it is fine because the glycerin is vad de mother I'm just saying that the glycerin is not necessarily as big an issue as people thought it was or as it was the flavors do you a few years ago the town would company the Motor Company had a problem the United States they brought him from Canada and though you said that you should be of a bottle at six parts of water yeah so but I think they knew that that particular company was buying from from we don't know yeah I saying all these things are things that you it's very very hard to verify there are some things in caches that people think that that because Shahana tells us calm I should absolutely room agrarian and you have to check everything as much as you're able to check into it so they think everything is easy to verify most things are virtually impossible to verify they're very very very hard for not just a consumer but even a client that's buying the product it's very very not talking I could sumer buying I'm setting a factory buying it there are many things that are just very very hard to be able to trace and get 100% clarity where it's coming from unless there are so much cause for some things I remember as a certain Robo master once about the chocolate for Pesach and he said if I did talk about basic we would do it bean farm to the Tabar right literally shmoo Romish ask Syrah yeah right um potato chips - hey Misha branch brands and there are nine hey Misha brands what's the Sharla state what I use understand especially so kashering of utensils the spices and the yes as far as I know I'm not saying that there might be some exceptions and there's really Asghar has I think do kasher the American has got has from as far as I know don't cash or when they're doing when they're doing runs of kosher of visually swell potato chips because it's viewed as a homer most high skim it karai then hold that potato chips don't require visual as well those that do want it are doing it as a home run they're doing it because it's you know why not let's do let do be better than that and and as a result they don't most has got has at least as far as I know and I'm saying most I don't I'm not aware of one that does they change the oils and a good question I know that some do I can't tell you that all do but I do know change the oil right so meaning this is again one of the things if there's any far Tamiya this is very relevant so people's fire them want visual BCI Yousef so they go to a restaurant and they so if they're getting a steak it's relatively easy at but so you can put it on but but even if he's putting it on how tray for you're looking at that bitch'll aroma so if it's a grill it's very easy can just ask the guy to scrub down with with the grill brush for a few seconds and okay there's no mum uh she's fine right but if you're asking for deep fried schnitzel this stuff's frying in the same fat together with it that you know it's you have a real problem and so the question was is that are they changing the oil so the answer is is that I know that some are I can't tell you every single brand because I don't know every single brand and again like I said Annette's you saw when they're doing these things they are conferring the calum as well and their Israeli brands that they make it in Europe in certain places and the the other problem that does come up as seasonings and again the usually the process of making potato chip is is that they're frying the chips the chips are hot at that stage up until that point everything is a dedicated power of operation right up until that point the potatoes are cold they go into the fryer the fryer is hot it leaves the fryer things are starting to cool down it's a cliche already at that point at some point becomes a cliche or a V or a huh machine right it might still be hot and the question that comes up is by the tumblers where they're adding seasoning so when they're adding seasoning most plants that are doing this can be doing trave kosher and Parv right so if you're getting a plain potato chip that's just salted something usually not always but usually it's either gonna be a dedicated line or it's gonna be less complicated the second you add in multiple different flavors they're generally adding on some oil that oil might also be hot to help get it's thick and things get a little bit more complicated are they kashering that equipment are they not how are they checking that it's not yet so lettuce I was once in a factory that a hostel that was involved in there originally told this factory that they don't have to cash or the tumbler because it is it was blue adds a lettuce well how was that established which I'm nothing is wrong by the way the way it was established I'm just saying the quoted stating the facts it was established because it much gak when this came up the first time went and put his hand on it and said lettuce somebody came from the headquarters one day to check it out and up we're not gonna check with her hand we're gonna use the laser thermometer ah it was two degrees above whatever this agency said is yeah so let us a problem so we're gonna have to kasher we're gonna have to say that everything is dairy your tray for whatever it is again which way is right of which way is wrong over two degrees the Fazal have a thermometer they went with the laser temperature up to two degrees again different topic but how are you evaluating that and is that being done in a in a good format to make sure that you don't have any problems so that is the issues with a hammer a potato chip versus a non Pringles less problematic than regular potato chips Pringles seemingly I've never been there so I can't really tell you I can't tell you from looking at reports well I do know the Pringles are mullux know and they have right everything all the Pringles are switched to being milk eggs besides the plain Pringles and because of the seasoning aspect and I don't know what the setup was before but based on that we use press release about it it seems like that they just didn't wanna have to deal with separating the in cleaning between runs and whatever form of capturing was being done there Pringles is a drop more complicated because of a different point which is that it's not made from whole potatoes it's made from reconstituted potato flakes and there are those that hold that those potato flakes require officially swell and though you does not require visually swell for it it's a again a lengthy complicated hollow topic which we're not gonna get into today so that what the potatoes the potatoes are the potatoes are though if I cook potatoes if I cooked potatoes and then I dehydrate them so am i saying now that the I look at the potatoes are they're look at the potatoes yeah you have many examples but again again if I have a mega if I have a in my home and I'm cooking a potato right I can eat that potato hole as it is nice mashed potato nice and boiled potato with butter on it right nice and seasoned savory smack right great so that potato might be a problem officially so when I can get into the issues of do potatoes require visuals or not Devon topic right but assuming that it does require visually saw so I have a potato that's awesome because of its lock them now they went in the idea it doesn't make it motor now so there are places that say that might make it motor again it's it's a complicated topic the the Hamish co-hosts at least on paper and theory are do acquired visually through all four potato flakes like that they will not use regular potato flakes that are not not visually so and though you does not require that candy Kennedy's junk food sugar shops substitutes that contain cream of tartar or tartaric acid why does so much Gophers refuse to use it or maybe most Hamish Erica's and some allowance so cream of tartar target there's all these tartaric things and can come one from one of two sources the original source is from why making its Shahana calls vine stain if there's anybody named vine shane in the room that's where the name comes from right it's the sediment that was leftover in wine barrels it was scraped away and purified and that's what the original cream of tarter was and there there is synthetic cream of tartar which has nothing to do It's Made chemically and with you know talked to chemists to figure out exactly how it's done I'm not gonna get into that right now and so the synthetic cream of tartar can be costly Mahajan without any problems and it's very hard to be able to identify know from the regular product especially because the major rajagaha generally treat most of them not all them most of them treat it as what's called the Group one something that Dave field is not required aha so it's very hard to be able to trace and go back and be able to verify exactly what what it is so and then you get back to the same issue like the glycerin in the oil and other things where people up crema tart is an issue so it's an issue but there is Khosla Mahajan cream with tartar you could have such a thing again Mahajan standard what wine did it come up from what I will say one one other thing which is just it's an ironic point because um the source for crema tata that Jahanara says his mother is talking i'm not mistaken is the rush in a bazaar that brings down from balance asus that it's motive in the evident the going mated and you used it in bread making it was not talking about taking cream is harder from a guy and using it it's not gonna taking a finished product that the guy added something into it that's not gonna make a trace so it's just an interesting point to note well what exactly we're talking about which joke right so the derma car won't really affect the potatoes at that point because it's it's it's it's at a later stage and it's called so you know the only way the of a harmful become officers even either of its soaking in it or if you have a knife or or or or cooking one of the three things it's not cooking and it's not there's not really not really to that as far as I know yeah which chocolate company is caution with I don't mean that the other ones are not don't cash or from its deflation so Dominic's to power or they don't have any issues ironic ironically at least on a policy standpoint the National Haj Agha house in America don't cash with what's called with shot with Shyam ask him a list at least on paper officially on a regular basis there's any but there's always exceptions everybody is should always know that whatever rule as God tells you does not mean that it's always happening across the board without any exceptions there will always be a exception sometime right but the general rule that the national office in the United States have is that they will not kasha which I'm asking they won't use oil to cash or a chocolate line the problem with chocolate is that kashering a dairy chocolate line with water is virtually impossible because no chocolate factory with the right mind will allow water into the factory water and chocolate just don't go together very well and it would be down for days so generally meaning in an abstract if that's the only point you're looking at that at national laws gajja would be better than some hey massages in America or in Europe or now it's it's all because they allow some of them again we're not getting into names some aim is girls girls do allow car showing Bashara masking because you know the remembered the eviden whatever the details are why they why they're matter and where that whereas the Nationals girls won't it gets a lot more complicated than that because you have many many many things that go on in the factory beyond just how to bake a and so if you can ask me that question the way this it seems like it's doing the best job on everybody on caching simply because they they tear down I've seen pictures from this I've never been there myself and have friends that have served as much give them in productions but for for chocolate that they certify and if it's not a dedicated facility of theirs which they have an ancestor or whatever but but when they do runs in other countries they are tearing down the equipment and they're doing a liberal call on all the equipment it looks brand new there it takes multiple days multiple days to prepare for Kasia baking chocolate and chocolate chips are different than this chocolate am i correct yes and no yes yes and no it doesn't really make a big difference because the any baking chocolate and chocolate chips are usually made on a more dedicated line than chocolate bars but the initial step can still have the same problems so you could still end up with and with a base chocolate that was made on a dairy line that's a dark 99.9 percent there's a certain I wasn't but I was looking at a I'm setting up a company that was involved with and they they actually were using a chocolate that is 99% chocolate certified by a certain as gajja as dairy or dairy equipment I don't know exactly what but not power of they have a very few items that are power of coming from the same factory because of how the you know I wasn't in the factory so I can't tell you what the exact set up but I don't think that there as a rule that somebody can say the baking chocolate is easier than then regular chocolate if there is a specific type of baking chocolate that you know is is Parv and consistently then yeah that that is probably better than it's a different category as opposed to chocolate bar which is more eat more likely to be commingled what's the story of flavored coffees and flavored teas do they need a hairshirt yes 100% they need a manager any flavoring is going to be a more complex item and doesn't mean that it's always going to be complicated but anything with flavoring can't it can be much more complicated and is not as simple item and flavored coffees and teas won't affect anything else that's made using the same factory so plain coffee won't require rajagaha even if it's made in the same factory that is making flavored coffees it's done in a later stage different equipment it's not not gonna affect that cold cereals we see that officially the homogeneous a market officially so passed this room maybe and the other classes are not so much but on it doesn't really need a Michelin soul passes well mahalia supply scheme so the bet the best source for this is to use a rough that was on both sides of the both sides of the equation as they say right the the remeasure standoff for the rival today the harness has a children chosen august that where he says the minute hopeless was that was to he may call on this but in and as you saw they weren't and you know it's obviously it's if you're able to do it and it's something that's able to be done it's admirable for sure assuming that the simple ones are not probably so come welcome laughs my surpass night what about you use or fiber one more like again you get into the same question you also get into the question of Broca's what Bravo do you make so that someplace gonna have to solid say sure you should be washing when you have a bowl of cereal right because it they say it style FM and your conveyer Sudha eating breakfast right and but in the Land of Oz anus bread right to quote a a manufacturer in this country that he told me when he started his business he was selling bread in Williamsburg and I didn't say on his print on his on his bread it didn't say where brocco to make something so my bracket is he says what do you mean it some might see as bread no no no no I mean waves do bright this is tight knishmas item id sees is Mahaska Zionists what do you mean it's for sure miss honest if it doesn't say otherwise alright so the Land of Oz anus bread it's a little hard to take that statement but because we're not convinced ooh than anything of course but so to take that within to they say it yeah I don't know it's a very hard it's it's something that's not it's subjective to a certain degree what is also home Elohim and what is what is tauriel ahem there's no I'm still looking from a car if anybody has am a car that says what tire let him is I would like to see what that is and because I've not found one and I've not learned everything in the world sigh but if somebody as a Mac I would be happy to see what it is we have a lot of different types of whiskey's I mean a robust key stood here many times and said that it's the site site that Chloe's soul should drink Mashka only with a Heckscher that means any type of whiskey vodka and so on but am I so a lotta you didn't do drink other whiskey's vodkas Bourbons and I don't even know the names they could be problem additives it could be problem that put wines in them and they could be a problem that sherry casks okay okay you who divided the crow alligator by bielski of course it's time and it's it's a matter it's only a matter of time before that we cross that that bridge and the norm becomes that only certified alcoholic beverages are accepted in from household I would say before you get to whiskey I would say beer is probably a much bigger problem that people don't realize and some of you might remember some 12 years ago approximately there's a whole big scare because but because they discovered that Budweiser was making a beer with claim clam juice in idea they're making a tomato beverage or something in the same factory with it with a beer that had clam juice in it the clam was not buffle to all the caitlyn became us her and all the conscious agency said can't buy Budweiser in the can form you could buy the bottles but not the cans cuz it made it a factory whatever the details were if anybody remembers this myself and but it's very very common the major beer companies in the United States are certified Miller's Budweiser and what Sam Adams whatever they're the major brands are all certified the second you're getting into into smaller players even if they're very large regional players virtually every single one of them would fall under the category of a craft brewery craft brewery can be as Extreme as a might this is true this is not not kitty kid you not-there our breweries that are making pepperoni pizza beer they're buying 12 pepperoni pizzas or whatever the number is I saw once at 12 Hey and they're dumping it in the brew mash twelve pepperoni pizzas dumping it in and then letting that ferment with the beer or cook whatever does it do that and then they're filtering out of course well we were filtering it out hey you're not eating the pepperoni pizza right that's how bad it can be right so I've been to many beer companies I've spoken to many beer companies at the consensus of most conscious agencies is that any time you're dealing with a craft brewery it's best us us or not but us Cosmo alright so if you're dealing with large beer companies that's one thing if you deal in Europe the same thing then if you deal with large beer companies major brands in Europe that are not certified the Hozuki is is that there's a Hesketh caches to it and the anytime you deal with smaller beer companies it the the chance of them having real typhus or even if it's not real tyrus ingredients that are high of ambitionally swell or or other issues that can come up in the in the in the ingredients is very very very high the cash agencies do not remain a recommend buying any such beer unless somebody looks into it and it doesn't mean that Haj Agha who looked into it right but you have to look into a due diligence and find out that this beer company is not playing not playing around with things if they play around with things then the sky is the limit literally the sky is the limit so again this is with beer so now you get to Scotch what a scotch coming from what does it go man oh it's coming from beer well not exactly but yes it's coming from it's the same same thing right so if you're if you're making a distilled item that's coming from something that could be problematic logic would dictate that that product product should be complicated itself without getting the sherry cask and without getting to a wine additives or any other complicated additives so again you can start analyzing and saying which scotches which whiskies Irish Canadian Japanese Indian you know from which countries what things are more problematic or less problematic bottom line is that they're they're not none of them are our million percent right now again I'm not gonna tell everybody as you go just buy things with a hacksaw it's not available in that level necessarily and but it's for sure better to buy one with action if it's available get that there's no Mitzvah to buy you know to buy some whiskey that has might have some questions in how about vodka how about vodka so vodka is yeah how about vodka so I personally have never been to a company that does just vodka itself so I can't speak from personal experience but I do know people that have been to quite a few and they all claim that every single vodka company is hushed on distilling grape and how should our distilling dairy based things so could it be a problem yes it can be a problem how common it is or not that's where you get into the question so the halacha basics on our has is that unless you're getting in if it's there Isis unless it's your passing Roy it's not gonna be a problem and we can be evident least if it's there buttons you can be Taylor even that there's only one place that that does it in a kosher way that it's still fine all the others but it for sure is not Glatt you know so for for for people that are called want to say that the Mahad rubra Cassius and we're only buying black kosher meat and we're only buying you know the best of the best house goes or whatever it's a little funny that all of a sudden yeah on this one thing we say no there this is fine so what Oh flavored vodkas for shurni - we're not talking about flavor no but the flavor is happening late the flavors are happening later flavors amping later yeah being later again you can get into browsers because it's the devil - it covers Internet it that that's the least of the problem the main problem is is is that that using the same distilleries and and again sadly there many people that that either they love love drinking or do they think that they understand something there's many times again I'm not a not a heavy drinker and I don't claim to be the world's expert on whiskeys but but I have spoken quite a few times of people that will swear up and down that this particular type of alcoholic beverage from this particular country has no conscious concerns and every time I look into it it turns around and like no no no no just flat no nuts raw roasted dry roasted glazed what are the issues like infestations oils the dishes that they manufacture them on they responses that they add maybe so nuts obviously raw nuts don't really have any problems beyond infestation infestations are very complicated beast and it changes vastly from location to location and it's also very complicated dynamic that is very hard for most abundant to grapple with and try to get a rubs and tell you exactly what mute about say is what is most like and how you measure that they'll usually have an HA because it's not it's not a black and white okay so we're buzzer actually had the easiest way of saying me at the months because he said it's not a number and it's not not a quantity it's it's a gut feeling anything that you find on some kind of regular basis so yes it is subjective at that point but it's it's much easier to grasp with it makes it much harder because it means virtually everything is minute Tamotsu virtually everything does require checking for infestation on some level and according to the way ravana understood it and so the one thing to understand about nuts is that generally most infestation that you find the nuts is not awesome at the Arizer generally because it's infestation that happens after harvest after it's the the detach from the trees so therefore it does not it's not considered share it's a share it's all rights until it's parish until it separates itself from the fruit or the nut or whatever it whatever it is if there's a bug that's inside it's not always going to be there eisah not even always gonna be there upon an awesome so that's one thing that's just important to understand that we're dealing with infestation that happens at a later stage during storage and not infestation that happened while it was growing and inherits its role they generally tell people that they should be checking at least a small quantity of every single thing being their highest they suspect that they're that they're or I wouldn't expect they leaned towards and aside a caution that maybe it's me intimately because it's hard to define and they say therefore you should always check a few nuts and fine and see that there's no infestation then you can continue eating everything regularly and something that you know that heavily infested and which in America I don't think that is the general norm the general norm is that these things are not infested and most robot America as as far as I know from across the spectrum and don't require any checking for for dried nuts and with regard that's with regard to infestation with regards to the processing of it so there's basically two processes for making and from it for for making nuts for roasting them one of them is called oil roasting literally fill up a big pot with oil and you dunk the nuts in there until they roast that way and the moisture gets replaced and are taken out and that's one way the other way is the old traditional way which is dry roasting you put them in an oven or you put them in a tumbler of some kind and you dry roasted that way and dry roasting generally does not have any conscious concerns by itself meaning the drying process itself doesn't usually have any problems you could have problems either when they're adding some kind of flavor our applicator before the roasting I don't think that that's very common but it does exist or then what is more common is that the nuts need a cool somewhere so if they're taking those nuts from the dry roaster they're putting them either on a production line a conveyor belt if it's a large factory or large and netted sort of tables and that help it cool and they're putting the same those those same table they use for oil roasted the oil roasted could either be traif or it could be dairy could be power ku one of the three so you're dealing with something where the the calum could be milling they could be traif and you could end up with a problem because of that so again you want to say how problematic it's a cliche neolution that different go she can get all kinds different that come up and so as a rule as a general rule oil roasted nuts it for sure problem without arzga dry roasted nuts most us graph has at least in America as far as I know do suggest that people should only be buying dry roasted nuts without gajja they're readily available so again I know why anybody would want in the United States by without there are places in the world and where dry roasted nuts have no problem hazelnuts from Turkey for example I've been told by people that work in the ADA that the ADA treats it as a something that does not requires God they have not found yet any single hazelnut facility does not reach their high standard of cassius meaning there's no concerns whatsoever right and they're dry roasted hazelnuts and there are some types of nuts which you get into a bit early soil question chestnuts there's some place gonna say that it has a Shiloh save already talks about it and there there are there are nuts that you get into SH I love this locker if it's something that's not eaten raw and only in a cooked or roasted form what lunch on a cross is the same thing once it's once you using heat to make it ready ready to be eaten we consider that to be cooked there is a header of Lena Schneiderman V Russell there or which is which some use for explained why quiet says mutter and then it wouldn't apply to that also but that's not generally with herring and other canned fish that come from very far countries and I was told by a good friend were in the rough that it was a certain role here that was relying on a certain layer that was out there somewhere in the Ukraine or Russia which was visiting the plant only twice once in two months and he finally alerted him that fish need three D she stopped giving out coffee he had no idea what he was doing but there are a lot of fish that come from there in cans and jars and yeah so there's a lot of sadly there's a lot of people that get involved in those girl because just because somebody's a rub and they learned Allah who doesn't necessarily mean that they know how to give us talk because they're not always thinking about how the practicality plays into things and yes especially fish we spoke about that before about buying fish from the fish store and there are many people that they just don't get that fish needs to have some massage go home and herring is a very interesting question and because herring is generally bought and consumed without the skin and there's no real identifier there's I've heard I've read a lot of things on it some somewhat real true but some of it is just my mother that people have written I can't say that I have a very clear picture about why everybody's matter I've heard things along the lines of they rely on the silvery film color of the fish that that's also Simon Mohawk there's all kinds of different forests why people come up there the herring is mother and one thing was you know which we do have to realize which is that even tuna fish you ask my cans tuna fish up until 50 60 years ago most people even hang there should be a measure people were eating regular tuna fish without a scuffle we're buying crops again I didn't see this but they say we're bankrupt or was my aidid also and remain apart from Kardashian in London also they had no people on and they told me they they remember 20 years ago 10 years ago well after America became adopted only using Hamish the tuna fish and they were using John West I think is the brand that everybody in England was using a company that they knew that was only doing tuna fishing there was not no other shila's there besides has got on the fish so it's it's a debatable issue I know Rebell ski was very much against a sandwich that's why you know I had a long conversation once with them about it Ravel skied did not was not of the opinion to make long tuna fish but if for sure was min ago um it's interesting to note also the doctor jeweler has in Simon kufan hey if I'm not mistaken and which talks about things net being none of them of it is are what ever talks about fish oil people want to use fish all over for we talked about it before with men and nutritional stuff what so he had at the dock you tuber brings that a very interesting points when we talk about Simona Duggan he says that I've been told again this is hearsay he's writing I've been told that does fish oil that comes from a kosher fish because on the bottle to have a diagram of the fish and it has cos Qasim on it I in Xiamen Dhaka children's - McLoughlin a right so so again the concept that we have today of fish tuna fish and canned fish having her summarize in and mostly the in what level is is a very long complicated ha logic debate and who's right or wrong is is a different question there's what miss gobble and most of the world has adapted to and require hodge gajja tomatoes not everybody the whole youth is not required for example but most of the world's God it does require much MIDI for fish productions and second is skin is skin coming off herring is the exception to that rule and I don't think anybody has a very good explanation why and there are has Gravas reflect over land on the ADA as far as I know do have a much me D in the herring productions in in in the Netherlands now what that means how one must guess can see all the fishes are doing when you have a little fish again so here you get to a question what does it mean when you talk about much guesstimate for fish not everybody believes that you have to have a much gear that sees every single fish there is a concert that some people have of really has called dog food an adventure of missing karelas before and the I think it brings down such an approach that there's a if you have to do that and not everybody agrees in that there many places can that say it's enough that much you have to mediate seven a class it's not worse than anything else so as long as you're able to see every single fish not physically but technically you could see everything efficient then you're good to go so if you ever get in the building then making process as many herring as they want and you're good and I don't know exactly what the ADA does in Orlando on how they control that but they do have a much gear to me the their lipsticks chap sticks I know ad we works very hard to make kosher product and he's bettering his product lately and described as no crime i've actually gave me a list of other ones from a different company that are good so again it's the same question that we had before about nutrition is herbal things it's not food but it touches many so the only difference the difference with that is the same reason why for pace how many people in that mac bid on other forms of cosmetics for pay stuff but for lipstick they do want to be make sure that it's that it's crush slope ASA because it does go on your mouth and it does touch your food and doesn't go at some point and going to your body and so yeah there is more reason why why do we matter but at the end of the day it's not food it's not their hockey look there's no qivana to eat it and it card in again as far as I understand most of the players can say that it's mother how far you take you know does that mean you should if you have it available you shouldn't buy it no I don't think that's what it means Ravana has a famous chuva reverse let's talk about toothpaste right the mice of the sabia bear solve a chick from Boston why you that he said once in a shear he said well hey let's color we use toothpaste as an example so somebody came to a few days later said Rabi I gave my dog toothpaste to eat and he ate it so he says you have a killer later right you must give him the Caliph's either right but so toothpaste Ravana says that again I'm using this just a preface for buzzin says even for toothpaste we should be Mahathir and make sure that everything will single thing making the toothpaste is done properly with kosher ingredients and kosher equipment and done without any shortcuts because the way we set up cloudy so it's again it's a line of rosin hasn't quite a few tubers that relate to cashews the ends most of these shoes with a line that says that we don't build cloudy stall on the basis of a tear of napa the bittle the devastation but you know full of a who we don't we don't rely on these things i do want to mention classical arabic just worked very hard to make a cod liver oil in the same shoreline he he works at mpg s and Lakeland and they opened up a pharmacy very good friends and make a lot of sure together say I call them up because people always call me about cod liver oil they told me he went special down to a company and they're working on making something with color to note the Baltic yeah there is there is oil I don't Mikado level yeah I think this yeah there is kinda maybe there's not Carla but there is fish oil that is certified yes Yeah right and so again like anything else that that's kosher people want the people want everything so maybe they're doing it on tray for equipment or I don't know it could be there's a problem could be there's a problem I'm not aware of it there's so many candies and chewing gums that come from different places in the world and we see that the goods strong hamish a shame do not give on so many candies and we see that a lot of young or not big grab on them or whatever it is always put their names of stickers on it what does that show I don't know what it shows but I'm not and I can't I'm not gonna talk about rabbis about whose guns but we could talk about products candies are a very complicated thing to do properly and there are companies that I know of that do things for example under the ADA that they have pretty much invested millions of dollars for dedicated equipment just for them they're not using it for other things right the candy industry they generally is generally gelatin there's generally Carmine's is generally and other highly sensitive conscious ingredients there not to speak about milk eggs in power of and so on and so forth and it definitely needs a very very good as well the question is you know what the details are you could have sometimes it's just it's more complicated and there are things that once upon a time day that haters didn't have simply because they didn't have this supply chain for everything else other times there are things that you know I know things that there's that the ADA doesn't have that there's no reason that they don't have it it's something nobody requested it so it's it's all a matter of knowing the details of that particular things I have a specific product we talk about a specific product but as a rule candies and confectionery products are very complicated cashews wise it's not simple there's a lot of the issues that can come up and some eat it that looks at it a superficial way walks in things oh everything's fine I was actually I was in a candy ask Mike I was in a candy factory in Europe where for where a certain person is doing productions there under a certain house you got huh and I don't know I have no clue what they were doing there I was told I was asked to go review it for to upgrade so to speak to a better house go home and they the I was told beforehand this facility's a dedicated power facility there's no milk legs there and of course a foreign car for language it's not not English um and the person that was taking me around wasn't really production manager but he knew the plant quite well let me get the piece of equipment I said what is this for he no clue and then I read what it says it says in that language it says butter and like I thought there's no dairy in this facility yeah okay they never captured this equipment before for these kosher pie of candies that they were being made making on this production line right they're gonna how not power of and how traif and how whatever yeah that's already a detail but it's for sure not glad that's not Mahajan and on this symbol that says Kushal of maja German of Mahajan alright so that it's not I'll try to finish with this question there are so many vegetables that companies that really require good buddy Costello and there are so many companies in so many different places in the world they sent a different type of medication a different type of levels of caca and so so many of them are found to be problematic what's the approach of that similar to such a thing and I was in Evergreen in Muncie a few years ago I think I was still living here in the country and I overheard a few women and they were talking there was by the vegetable aisle the bodek the kosher garden or whatever and one of them turns and says they're a friend and says I don't know about all this stuff I wash and check out what my mother's to checked it now I'm not saying that she checked it very good that's not my point but the attitude is a good attitude meaning just because it has a symbol on it just because it has a Shahana and because it has a doesn't necessarily mean that it's being done in the best way the ideal way to a certain degree would be for each of us to buy our own chickens and take it to the shack up down the block and get it you shot them in front of you and you check the night beforehand like we said right and then you take it on me do militia right are there some things that you might not be able to do asthma hood or maybe as as as the large factories that might be there might be that some minutia detail you're not gonna be able to get in every little see if cotton and you know a shot somewhere but in general you're making sure that it's being done 100% properly right if there's a child you go a sue Robin you get a sock and gate right there anytime you're doing something on on such a large production scale it's virtually impossible for it to be foolproof and you don't see this in America but in ancestral they have quite a few products that are labeled as not bug free meaning just this is important note to note to know for the market some of this product does end up in America and but for sure if anybody visits aerosol if you buy what they call Gush Katif lettuce in a tea stall or parsley or cilantro any one of these things it is not bug free it is 100 percent most like a birthday line if you want if you eat it without washing it based on the washing instructions that they that they outline you are definitely going to be eating a bug definitely none another Suffolk vadai right why do they allow it because they they basically came to this conclusion that making it perfectly bug fee was too hard so what they did instead is they elected to going on a route of making sure that they only allow a certain amount of bugs that will get washed off when you wash it with normal washing emissions alright so kitten soap and wash for a few minutes in and then it will for sure come off every edge got has a slightly different interpretation for that but it's you're talking about 3 4 5 6 8 9 thrips right no aphids cause aphids don't always come off from washing there's certain bugs if they find one of them the entire field will go go straight to the garb will go for non mahajan produce and some of that product comes here to this country right usually it's cilantro parsley whatever do they sell these nice little plastic containers and if you look in the fine print it says that you have to wash it and then soak it or whatever but we Americans we don't know from this stuff what I mean the those that Sigler of them by the six seals that way hey how much more how much more kosher can you get than that yeah but it has bugs you have to wash it we just don't know so anytime you're dealing with a product like that it's just too hard to get it done perfectly and you're always going to have problems the question is how much problems questions how well a job they're doing on it and so yes in an ideal world either either don't buy it or do it yourself that's the ideal deal scenario and but the like I said before from the from rabirius to the baths that anytime you didn't was everything it's never going to be perfect not gonna be Mahajan imagined it might not be required different point right but but don't expect is gonna be always 100 without fries is not the other case any other questions after okay guys just got called to thank you very much everyone Jamie you sure Terry much disposal actually give a bigger success over cremes for answering all the stylists on the Dyson to reach their gold for asking me questions to Tomodachi life you'll be history cancer razors time it's a wife's paint respond see tonight she and a saloon definition awesome full he threw grenades of Santa Rosa cannot even account shimmer got a vocal those are cases over here mr schima I don't know if officer Michael Terry yada