Nachum and Dr. David Hertzberg - 50th Anniversary of the Entebbe Miracle

Anyway, we get asked by Herzburg. He he knows a lot about Israel. Uh, one of the re the main reason we asked her by Dr. David Herzburg to join us this morning is because this coming Shabbat, the 4th of July, 2026 is the 50th anniversary of the amazing miracle at Antebi. July 4th, 1976. Or Herzburg is going to be doing a special Israel at 78 episode at 9:00 a.m. 35 minutes from now. at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time about Antebi and um we have an opportunity to commemorate the anniversary and a lot of people have no idea what integr and I know a friend our age is going Carnegatu. Carnegatu. You're good. >> Seriously. >> And apparently >> and apparently the first Ashkenazi shul has been founded in Carme uh called Carmate Seion. And uh both the the older I don't want to say elderly, but the older members of the community and the Ashkanazi members of the community supposedly are feeling more and more welcome. So, I'm not taking it I'm not taking it off my list or by Herzburg. >> By the way, am I right that am I right that in Katrin no night swimming or uh I'm wrong about that. >> I'm no expert on that. Uh >> no, I'm just wondering in in Katrin during the summer is it 50° at night? Is it 40 degrees at night? Is it 80°? >> It's interesting. I I've not been up there recently at night, so I really can't uh but I'm not much of a swimmer even during the day. So, >> no, I got that. But I'm just saying, you know, I'm wondering if people are schvitzing at night in Katarin up in the Golan Galileo region. Um, all right, folks. It's uh hard to believe for those of us who lived through it, for those of us who uh you know were around and following the news even though we were thousands of miles away. It's hard to believe that it's the 50th anniversary of the antbi miracle. Um, Rabbi Herzburg, I'm assuming when you meet students in their teens, even in their 20s, and you mention the word antbi or you bring up the phrase kavode lahal or you say yoni nanyahu or you say any other reference or any other or if you say operate maybe if you say operation thunderbolt then they'll get it. Maybe they'll get that, right? Uh but uh but but many in the younger part of our community are not aware of what happened 50 years ago this week. >> That's for sure. Now, even the kids who know about it, learned about it, they it it certainly doesn't resonate with them the way it does to those of us who who were around back then and were feeling the, you know, were feeling the tension at that time leading up to the rescue. >> Now, what can listeners expect? because there are a lot of ways to approach the miracle of Antebi and you're obviously going to be focusing on it at 9:00 a.m. in an episode that airs 30 minutes from now right here on NSN. I mean, there's the technical part. Uh there's the, you know, experience of the hostages part. There's the praise for the Air France crew. I mean, are you able to get all of these angles in or did you concentrate really on one or two main things in terms of the story? So I concentrated on a few of the main things and a few of the relatively new things that have come up in the research in the past let's say five years. And I think my goal in a in an episode like this is to keep people's interest so that they'll go out and learn some more unknown, read some more unknown research more on known because new things have come out and it's and even the things that we knew already. It's just fascinating when you start putting all the things to or putting all the things together and uh >> I'm assuming you heard about the hostage who returned last week tobi right >> yes that video going around you know singing I'm saying the braha by the way >> I'm sorry >> which is a big issue one of the discussions about who gets to say that braha family members or whatever so that's uh that's a fascinating video clip on so many different levels >> well a hostage themsself obviously 100% can say the bro. Yeah. >> And and do you know where it was said? Like do you know if that was said at the first airport location, the second terminal location, the like you have any idea? Was it the actual room where the >> Yeah, >> great question. So I believe it was said in the vicinity of the old terminal. Now it's interesting that the antbi uh airport has been rebuilt. I believe it's a the one of the nicest airports in Africa. I think they put in a billion dollars to rebuild that airport. But I believe the that that what we saw in that video was near the actual site of the old terminal where they were held and where the rescue effort took place. >> And that was relatively untouched for the last 50 years or you wouldn't you wouldn't go that far to say that? >> I don't think it was there were things that were taken taken down in that area. I believe um so I wouldn't say it was untouched but I believe the old terminal building is still there. >> Rabbi Dr. David Herzburg's with us. Those of you who are tuned in to JM and AM late in the show, you know that he does a Israel at 78 program uh today, Tuesday at at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time. Today, he'll be concentrating on the miracle at Entbi, which happened on the 4th of July back in 1976. It's 50 years later, believe it or not. So remarkable. Now, you you spend so much time in your series of Israel 78 discussing the political situation. How do we look at the Antbi episode politically? Was it a political hot potato? Was it something that had the potential to divide the Israeli government? Did it in fact unite everybody the way you would think an episode like that would how would you look at it from a political point of view? So the interestingly enough the uh opposition led by Minakim Bean at the time when Rabino was prime minister informs him what's going to happen gives Rabin his total support. In fact, there's a clip of Bean speaking in the Knesset after the event, after the rescue, giving what we would call yashayak to Rabin, and he said, you know, I'm sure we're going to fight again in in the future and fight uh, you know, very viciously to a degree, you know, but today you get the today we're with you and this is amazing. >> And you had >> you you definitely had that unity um at that point. Interestingly enough, politically up until that point, you had a major debate between Perez and Rabin whether to do the uh whether to do the military action or not, right? >> And who would be the one responsible for it? >> Um and and you know uh prior hijacking episodes and kids today wouldn't believe how many hijackings there were in that era. You today every precaution is taken to make sure there's no potential for any type of weapon to be on a plane. But, uh, hijackings back then were very common. Um, we know from prior episodes that there was always this discussion about what type of celebration there should be. In one of the famous hijackings, some of the Jewish people were released, others were still being held hostage and and many Torah giants at that time said, "You cannot celebrate because there's still people who are being held, etc., etc." What was the mood as Israel, the whole state and the movie reflects this is ready to celebrate and really does celebrate and at the same time obviously they lost some of the hostages right I mean relatively small number but you know there's no such thing as a small number when it comes to losses like that and of course the courageous Yoni Natanyao so was there a mixed bag of emotions or it was so euphoric that they pulled it off that really despite all the losses the Jewish people around the world were found themselves in the throws of celebration. So I think as as we can see on those videos when the hostages and are getting off the plane, the major tone was definitely euphoric and there was a euphoria there. Certainly in Hutzar there was that euphoria because a lot of the smaller details um of some of the things that went wrong in the casualties we didn't we didn't know yet. Several of the right several of the hostages were killed and several of the soldiers besides Yoni who was killed were critically injured. >> So in those individual cases certainly was in celebration but the nature the overall nature seemed to have been that euphoria um and it ended for better for worse that level of terrorism of the hijack. Like today, let's say for example, we know in there going to be marshals on every plane, >> right? >> There armed marshals on certainly international flights. >> Is there footage of Yoni Netanyahu's funeral? >> Is that's a good I know there's a lot of there there must be. I didn't view it. I mean there always uh the footage of Netanyahu of of BB Netanyao every year on the Y site. I just saw the one most recent. But of the funeral itself, actually, oddly enough, even though Shimon Perez and Yoni Netanyao were from very different parties, there was actually a closeness there because Shiman Perez gave a eulogy at the Leva of Yoni Netanyahu and he spoke very very beautifully about Yoni and that created a certain bond between Perez and Netanyahu. >> Wow. Remember when we were growing up how many babies were named Yoni? remember if you if you if you meet a kid born between 76 and 80, a boy or even a girl born between 76 and 80, there's a good there's a there's a shot that they that they're named Yodi. >> No. Yeah, it was quite the uh and and then of course all those movies and Yarm go playing him and uh >> I wonder what the accuracy is. Do you have a comment about the accuracy of the >> So actually the um regarding the Nitanya the uh yoram go the I operation thunderbolt >> uh in terms of the timeline it is pretty accurate. It does follow the time. Obviously, a lot of the discussions that are filled in um were were made up or fictionalized or imagined, but the timeline itself is more or less is more or less accurate. >> And how how how quickly and again anybody not familiar, you got to either watch the movie or do a little bit of research or listen to by Herzburg. How how um quickly they start developing the the plan, you know, getting a car that looked like Ediamin's car, etc. etc. >> Well, that's the like really crazy thing. So many of the things were just improvised at the la last minute. I mean, that car was not thought up till I think the Friday before. >> Uh someone said and and then, you know, get this, they could only find in Israel one white Mercedes and they had to then paint it black. >> They can only find one Mercedes to use and it was the wrong color. >> So, uh then they spent Friday painting it. Is there are there any artifacts of the of the mission? Like is that car around somewhere? >> It is. That car is around. I'm not sure where is that that car is around. It might be in some one of the museums, but that car believe is around. Uh there's some there are some things in the Rabin Museum, the Rabin Center in Tel Aviv. There's some artifacts that are that that are definitely there that things from the uh and every so often you bump into I I remember having uh you know bumping into a taxi driver in Israel who was in the Air Force. It happens to tell me he was in Debbie. >> Wow. >> How many how many how many can make that claim like you you think you think around how many soldiers actually made the trip? So actually probably more than we think because in Yoni in the Sar Matau which were the tip of despair. I think there were about 30 31 soldiers but then you had about another 70 80 soldiers doing support like Golani. As a matter of fact the commander of the Golani became uh Shto Ramitz uh at that. So you had about another 70 and then you had medical teams and then you had all the air force people. So they're probably between 150 or so people who besides the hostages that is who are actually there. So it's not outlandish to know out of the to bump into someone who said I was inbi >> and do we have a clue how many hostages are still alive meaning how many are still around >> right that I don't know >> because the one who went back to antbi like I'm wondering is that a real exception or you know there's 25 people that could have made that trip like I'm so curious about that. >> Yeah. No, I think that they're they're you know cuz you also had kids on you also had uh kids and here's an interesting thing that in doing the research you know when they did that selection and put the Israelis and the Jews even who didn't have Israeli passports which was really uh hearkening back to the Holocaust on the one interesting thing that I found out in the research was however bad that was on so many levels it actually gave the Israeli government a certain freedom of operation because they no longer had any people with foreign uh French or British people that they had to worry about in terms of so they actually there was a relief that said oh now we can you know not only do we have the political the PR aspect but it gives us a greater freedom of operation. What a what a what an important point that is >> because that blew me away, you know, realizing that >> because once Israeli citizens or those who the world considers Israeli citizens, Jews are isolated, then you know that that all bets are off and the Israelis, you know, feel they can go in and uh and and act accordingly to try to save their their their brethren. It's pretty amazing, >> right? At that point, you know, France's major concern was that their Air France plane not get damaged. I wonder then in all seriousness, I wonder if the Israelis regretted that the Air France crew insisted on staying with the Jewish hostages because it made the the point that you just made it made that a little bit more difficult. >> Interesting. I know I don't uh that's a good question. I don't know. >> And what do you think in general? What do you think in general of the Air France leadership deciding they've got to stay with them? It's pretty pretty remarkable. you think think about it especially in today's standards it's pretty remarkable they didn't take the opportunity to just get out >> so there I think it was and again there is some debate that whether all the flight attendants wanted to stay and how much of a choice that they were given but I think that was the old school of leadership that uh >> the captain goes down with the ship >> the captain goes down with the ship I think you know with some interviews with the captain the French captain >> it was a non it wasn't even a question in his mind that he should stay >> and I think Israel lorded him, right? Didn't they years later give him some award or >> Israel lorded him. Air France if the French didn't so much at first they were a little bit upset. So that's a story in and of itself but for sure he was you know he was a hero and he would not leave his he would not leave his passengers for sure. >> Unbelievable. I'll tell you it's and when you think about it, look, we we always celebrate the victory obviously and the rescue which was amazing despite the unfortunate terrible losses, but it could have been I mean it could have been an absolute disaster. We we've seen rescue attempts on this planet and they don't always go according to plan. You know, >> in fact, you're you're you know, you're you're saying something so true that the in Rabin's mind, he considered it, and I think I mentioned this in the episode that as long as fewer than 25 of the hostages would have been killed, he was going to view it as a success, >> right? >> So, >> and by the way, if there's one thing the movie does capture, it's it's how torn he was with the whole thing. That they do well. >> And and that was very very accurate. I mean the movie also gave us the song and the tune for Mish we can't for >> but I think that was real footage. I think the footage of Rabin was real Rabin footage from that time >> right all the political people in that movie was real footage of Perez and of um >> the um all the other right they they they actually there's no one playing the characters you see the back of the head someone playing everything is real real footage and for those Yeah, I'm sorry. >> No, go ahead. I I'll tell you one of the things that also like doing the research it makes you really believe in a keshbu because and and fine has a tutor to this effect as well because so many things needed to go right and so many things that went wrong there that could have caused and it's mathematically I think it's easier to believe in aes than to say mathematically is this could have happened >> right >> the the when you see the big picture of everything >> and by the way not not to put a damper on it. But it works the other way as well. On on October 7th, you know, 10 things have to go perfectly for the enemy. And obviously the one the one above oversees everything as we know. And uh you know, so but but but this is such an important point you're making about that specific operation, how everything had to go right. And it's remarkable how everything went right. The whole thing is incredible. And for those curious about the current prime minister, obviously the younger brother of Yoni Netanyao, he was in the United States when this happened. Correct. I think he >> correct. He said one of the hardest things in his life was that he had to drive uh um to the university where his parents were living to inform them that night that Yonyi that Yonyi had been killed. >> Right. So they were all in the US when all this was going on. And Yoni and Yoni Natanyao by the way is an even bigger figure than than you know this episode you know than than how this episode paints him because >> oh he pro for sure he would he would likely have been uh Ramach chief of staff and he was a brilliant guy >> even as a teenager. even as a yeah well read and even as a teenager he was one of these really deep thinkers >> who I I'm sure you've seen his letters and some of the things he left behind >> and uh you know he he I I'll never the thing I always talk about is that is how frustrated he was with you because they went to high school in the United States at least he went to high school in the United States at least part of high school in Philadelphia I think it was and he was so frustrated by the interests of his classmates he felt they he felt they were so inane and and and and shallow >> shallow >> and and he and he was wondering where's all the idealistic thinking about nationhood and about values and you know and I'm like wow you know that if that doesn't tell you what kind of kid he was uh that really is a is a great uh insight into him >> right you see that you see that in the in his letters the book >> unbelievable anyway there you have it big miracle took place 50 years ago this week it's called antbi folks If you're not familiar with that airport, it it got international attention, the airport. Can you imagine? It's probably the only African airport anybody around the world can name, right? I don't think there's any other. >> Well, that that's why now they're Israel's friend and uh they have a billion dollar. Maybe I'll lead a trip there one day. is >> well an Israel friend of what >> they were now they are in very good terms with with relatively good terms with Israel Uganda and uh Nina himself went there on the 40th anniversary I believe 10 years ago >> as prime minister >> pretty amazing I'll try >> how the world changes >> yeah you could say that again life is funny as they say uh coming up 9:00 a.m. Eastern time, 15 minutes from now, the Anbi special, part of the Israel at 78 series done brilliantly each week by Dr. David Herzburg right here on NSN. Can't thank you enough. Enjoy the big anniversary. Everybody thinking about it on this 4th of July. And remember, have a great day. >> I wonder how many people, Rabbi Herzburg, before you leave us, I have to ask one thing. I wonder how many people around the world still have a keepsake of that miracle 50 years later. Idi t-shirts with him saying ka kavodaho. Remember that one? >> I don't fully remember that. >> Everybody Everybody in summer camp during the month of August that year had that shirt. It was a shirt of it was a a silhouette of idiom I think even with a cigar or cigarette in his mouth in his uniform and and speaking you know in that speak bubble uh says the word kakodah. So everybody was saying calling all the tal even the leader of Uganda. So there you go. >> It was quite it was quite the time that summer >> could say that again. Thank you so much for joining us and a big yes. >> Thank you. Have a great day. >> Rabbi Dr. David Herzburg. Uh NBI is his topic. Uh 50 years later happening at 9:00 a.m. Eastern time right after JM this morning here on the home single network.