Pirkei Avos #39: Yediah and Bechira II

So welcome back everyone. I think this might be the last sh inim really. We finished reading the text inside and um the eighth peri explores the idea the isoid of great length. Um and uh the point obviously that the Ram is trying to get to is to prove that not only to prove but to to you know to discuss this in depth that we should understand that a person is a person has free will to act however he chooses and he's not being manipulated um or compelled or controlled, dictated, determined um to do to do anything and his all his actions are in his control and therefore you can tell him it's incumbent upon him to um put himself in the position to to to be to choose life and choosing life is not choosing um mundane animalistic life but it's choosing real life authentic life eternal life and the way a person chooses eternity is by following the Tory and not only following the Torah just as a by the way but as he discussed in Per and that is that every single action that a person does should be in consciously and and um and and in in in a weird way that would make him refine himself and grow and develop until a point where he could connect to eternity through his mind through his intellect and because that's ultimately what makes a person Adamas the suras is his mind and a person that doesn't use his mind and not only doesn't use his A person that doesn't use his mind to connect to the truth and the only truth that there really is in the world is the only self um suffic self um um self-living u um um entity in the world which is the himself and that is really that is the tlas of a person and this lifestyle a lifestyle that that uh that that connects a person to the to eternity that is that is And that is what the expects of us and demands from us via our free will. Um so that's why free will is is is so important. Now the Ram finishes off with a question that he does not want to talk about. he wants to avoid but he can't because he knows that everyone everyone knows of this problem and uh you can't discuss without also um engaging in this question and that is the fact that Hashem knows everything. Now that's what we call right. So you have you have you have a paradox in which Hashem knows what your your your choice is going to be and at the same time he pretends that you um you know that that that you have free will. So you have two things that seemingly contradict each other. On the one hand we have now the fact that we have we established from science from logic in in in in in in in our senses they all establish without any reason of doubt that we do have free will and we act based upon free will. We see the world through the lens of free will. That's how we experience life. So free will is well established. Now the fact that Hashem knows what we're going to do that is an axiom that seems elementary right that now we could prove that also right? We can prove it from the fact that Hashem can't attain add new information just because if he attains new information, it means that yesterday was lacking information. So 1 plus 1 equals that Hashem knows everything that's going to happen. So if Hashem knows everything that's going to happen. So if you're going to eat, if you're going to yell at your kids or you're going to get angry or be whatever it is, Hashem saw the script. If Hashem knows the script and Hashem knows it before time, now obviously the way the way a lot of a lot of us are used to discussing is that being that Hashem is the I don't think that that is really the crux of the I mean that might also be true, but it's not really what where it's at. Where it's at is is that Hashem knows all the information because there can't be any information that he doesn't know. So the the mechanism could be you know obviously but it's not really where it's at anyway. So being that Hashem knows what you're going to do. So now you have two options. Let's say Hashem knows I'm going to eat. So if you say that I have that means that when I say I want to eat, right? I'm tempted. Will I eat or won't I eat? Now I think I have the Torah says I have the problem is that that that Hashem knows. So could I could I make a choice that Hashem doesn't know? So if I say that I can't make such a choice and Hashem's idea is absolute is absolute then I don't really have free will. I might think I have free will but I don't have free will because free will means that I could choose yes and I could choose no. If no is not a real option then you don't have if you don't have then tora falls apart and that established very well there is no tora and it's not only it's not only there's no tora from our perspective there is no inherent value of a tora where there's no free will it doesn't make any sense in other words if there is no real free will then then then this whole thing is a joke it's a sham it's it's it's a scam it's injust in in the most basic level. It it it's unjust because you're punishing people that didn't do anything wrong. You're punishing people that didn't really really have any choice and and you're rewarding people for no reason. It's just it's a it's a silly game that it's not clear who's gaining off this whole charade. So, so, so, so this is where we're stuck right now. Anytime you have such a problem you there are three options we come from right we have two there are two premises right there are two two axioms that seemingly that we don't really want to give up on any of them and the truth is we can't so if you could so that's really these are our three options two options are give up on one of these two things so either you could give up on or you give up So say that is not really or is not really right you can say one of these two things. Third option is to compromise um which a compromise is really going to mean that really is not and is not. So these are the three options right. So from it's safe I think that in the last thousand years any serious Jewish thinker this explores this topic um and has a mahalik and and they're very unique right everyone has a different take it from to obviously the raam as we saw the rivet and um you have a barbanel um theodic is um they all they all discuss this and everyone has his own take and I'm not going to attempt to go through all the mal now I'm not going I'm not going I'm not going to do it at all we're learning raam I want to present the ram's um um the raam's perspective and again I am I I am a little coming from my own u um um um view So don't take it you know you should obviously see the Ram yourself. Now the Ram talks about in a few places and innovate and see what the rivet says. So the says like this you'll say knows everything that's going to happen before it happened. Does he know that he's going to beadic and a Russian? Does he know that is going to be a Russian or he doesn't know? You have two options. You have to pick one of them. Okay. If Hashem knows that Hashem knows that he's going to beadic, then he cannot beadic because Hashem's knowledge is absolute and it's true and it's fact. So, and it's real. So, if Hashem knows he's going to be, he has to beadic. We have and if you say that Hashem knows he's going to be Hashem's knowledge does not force him to be and really even though Hashem knows he's going to beadic he still has the free will to be then Hashem's knowledge is not real and it's not certain and it's not and it's not it's not really it's not really knowing what's knowing about knowing if you don't really know the a says the Rama You should know the answer to this question is as vast and great as the oceans. which is obvious and it's it's obvious in a way that if you have 12 to answer the problem of from going to the ram to the to we said to to the you have you could have 12 mim every mahal is not only giving you a a a way to maneuver this problem of the the fallout of whatever your solution is is very very farreaching because it really the the the the effects of the way you you you you look at this right because if you choose to compromise on on right then then the outcome is that you wake up to a very different world you don't wake up to the same world where is absolute right so if you compromise on really is an illusion which is what the hashem seems to be saying that really hashem is not that is obviously true it's just only um you know it's from the exper it's from our experience basically that really hashem knows and hashem's knowledge is absolute but I I do the Torah says I have yeah you have your experience is so nothing beyond your experience so you you might experience and you're judged based on your experience now if that's true then then think about a world where really it's like sort of the matrix where where where where you're plugged in and everything you do is predetermined just you think you have I think a tremendous amount of problems um Benel's answer to that is that you thought that you're going to you're going to solve one issue but you created a thousand other issues which I think is mamish matim right because yeah you solve the fact that hashem's knowledge is absolute and really I don't but you woke up the next day to a that doesn't really and the whole thing is in our imagination and therefore like it doesn't make any sense the whole thing doesn't make any sense why would hashem give pre-programmed robots ty mitas and then judge them for it. It doesn't it's it's a sad almost right. So so that's why this is mamish is very fundamental because the way we choose to answer this problem is going to open up our you know the the we're going to have to deal with with the fall out of it. Okay says the ram listen to what I have to say. his name, all his faculties, all his whatever it is they there are not things that are external to him. They are all part of the essence of elus. They are all one with him. And whereas by a person you have him and his mind. Hashem him and his mind are one. And basically I'm not going to read the whole thing inside. And he says that a person can't understand this to its to its depth. And just like a person can't understand the the essence of Hashem's existence of Hashem of the nature of Hashem's being because that's something that obviously is beyond our capacity because Hashem is infinite and and we are very very finite. We are very limited and so we can't really understand Hashem just like we can't understand the nature of Hashem's own existence. We can't understand it the nature of his knowledge because his knowledge and his existence are one of the same. Let's just explain why. Because if you separate these two things then you have Hashem and his knowledge. You have two gods. you have and and you have Hashem his knowledge and his strength and and his and his and and his compassion. Then you have 18 gods and a thousand which is the the world of polytheism and um which is against the t of so we're not we're not going there. So we when we talk about Hashem being and and anda all these things are within the the essence of Hashem's own being what does that mean? I don't know. You don't know. No one knows. And like the philosopher says if I would know if I would know him I would be him. So um so this is something we we we we can't understand. So if we can't understand the way Hashem's is then then what you going to do? You can't understand the raid doesn't like this at all. The rabbit says and this is just beautiful because this um this line in the rabbit is you could say for so many things you could say for almost this whole conversation I think would be very appropriate. So the rabbit says like this did not act in a way of wise people. Why? A person doesn't start something and he can't that that he can't finish. Right? If you can't if you can't if you can't go through this all the way then don't start. You you brought you open the can of worms and you have no way of closing it and you have no way of of of controlling it. Right? So you brought up a question which is a very difficult question and what's your answer? What did you answer? You asked me that it seems to be that you have two of these axioms that contradict each other in the most basic level. Does Hashem know what I'm going to do? If Hashem knows what I'm going to do, how do I have free choice? And what do you answer me? Says says derive it. He left it. And the way the Ram gets out of this is he goes back to faith. Right? So the Ram says Hashem's mind is greater than yours. So don't think about it. means you can't understand if I can't so again there are people that don't ask cautious okay why don't they ask questions because they have a fine so they accept everything these people never had a ka now then you have people that have kas these people you don't have an answer for because you took them back to faith so who exactly did you help with this whole nobody not that's what the rabbit says and don't bring their attention to the and then you leave them with with the sophic and then the raid goes on to give his own answer. He says even though I don't have a good answer for this I have somewhat of an answer and his answer is similar to some other and his answer sort of is that Hashem's knowledge is not what dictates you to do it. Hashem's knowledge is is is is is in a way of a forecast. So, Hashem sees the future. So, it's not that Hashem sees now like sort of there's a script and and Hashem's knowledge now dictates what you have to do and therefore you don't really have free choice and you're a robot that you're just following the script that you know that's that that's no, you have free will. Just Hashem is above the whole thing and he sees the future just like sort of just like when someone sees the past. When I know the past, does that mean that I dictate the past? No. The past is independent of my knowledge. Something happened and whatever happened the person had absolute free will. I just know what happened because I saw it. I I saw a videotape. The same thing, Hashem's knowledge before is the same thing. You have free will. You can do whatever you do. You can do whatever you want. Just Hashem happens to know about it. And that doesn't in any way contradict your free will, which is problematic because if I can't do any if I if I can't go against the script, then I don't really have free will. And you're going back to that whatever. Anyway, so so this is derive's attack on the ramen. But I think when we when the ra it could be that the rabb um and that's not what the ra is saying the t the raom like this that the ra there's a conversation only one of these things to be could be true and both of them are true what do we do so the raom says I don't know hashem hashem is bigger than you now that's not really what the the ram is Well, the Ram saying is is as follows. You know, before that, there's something that that that I want to I want I want to put out there. What bothers I said yesterday that that that something bothers me about this question. What bothers me about this question is is that a few things. First of all, people assume that Hashem of the future is is is to mess and I don't think it's true. I if we have to understand and this is what the Ram explored already what we saw is that is not something that we could negotiate with. Okay is if you take away there is no there's nothing the entire world is is is on its head there's no there's no there's nothing no mitz no nothing so is absolutely critical now it's not only critical because of the fact that you lose the entire and the point of the first of all says okay so you know in the way he always establishes something is It means logic. The way he proves things is is in in this order. Logic what does it say and what will we so you could prove through this system right? Logically we all experience we all we all live in a world with free will and that's the way we we we we look at the world. So we know that there's free will. Now it says in the Hashem says we have so Hashem says we have and we say we have so we all know we have so and and not only that and the outcome of saying that we don't have is something that's that's absolutely unacceptable in every level. So now is is if you have two unmovable objects first let's establish and that's always we have to do we have a means when two people argue over something. So the question is is there a mos that's always a question is there someone who is there someone who's holding on to it because then we could say to the other person so that I think when we have two of these things you have who is and I think that's really what the is saying but I I want to what is what is the established fact that we can't deny because really you can ask the question in two ways one is one is how can I have if knows right doesm know or does Hashem not know? So if if Hashem knows what I'm going to do and you the the mathematical conclusion says that Hashem knows what I'm going to do then how could I have that's one question and that's the way the question is usually asked. What bothered me about this question is is that it's that it's the wrong way to ask the question. The reason why it's the wrong way to ask the question is is because is something that we know intuitively and whenever you know something intuitively that should be non-negotiable. I know that from my own experience. Now the question be asked very differently. If I have and that is absolutely established then how could Hashm know? Oh that's a really very different question. How could if if the if I have and I the fact that I have free will is absolutely non-negotiable then how does Hashem know what I'm going to do? So the Ram answers is I don't know. That's it. It's all conversation. Let me explain better. I'm sorry that I'm I'm I'm I'm a little like bogged down with my thoughts, but I'm going to back I'm going to go back to something I started before. You'll be very surprised to know that the fact that Hashem knows what you're going to do tomorrow. Play like this. My friend called me today. He lives in Oaken Vine. Dear friend Baw and he told me that there are missionaries going around Oakine. By the way, if you live in Okvine, they're giving out a whole bunch of garbage. Throw it out. Anyway, so they're giving out their garbage over there in Okine. Now, um, so I remember I used to I used to argue with with these missionaries sometimes and there's there's a very there's a very interesting question that that I would always ask. Um, and that is and it's a very interesting thing to think about. How do you know what's important in the Tyra? We have Tanakh. How do you know what's important? How do we know what what the values what the core what the core values of Judaism are? So I think the way we could establish it let's say Shabas these things how do I know that these these things are fundamental say that someone who's someone who is why is that different than shness? Why is that different? Because there's there's you see the way things are stressed. If I say something once is very different than I say something 48 50 100 times. There are certain messages that every time they talk about like right you have to be kind and good and that that hashem doesn't want he wants you to be good and and whatever and so on and so forth. So that's how I know I know certain things in the in the missionary is it's it's it's important because when when um there are so many nvu it's about the end of days hardly any of them are about the person of Mashia which proves the point that really the no is not really concerned about the persona of Mashia per se more about the messianic age and that has a lot of ramifications when you're talking to a Christian but the point over here is you have an entire Hashem talks to us through coming up now all these sorts of are and then you You have so many I don't know if there's a single in the entire that says that Hashem knows what you're going to do tomorrow. Not one. And I'm willing to have this debate. And if you have one, I'll bet that there are classic on the page that learn that that don't learn it like that. Think about it. You have an entire Tanakh. Not a single puzz. How many sukim say that you have free will? I'm not they're besides the entire Tanakh is is built and leaning on the on the on the idea and on the axim and on the world view that you have free will. So the entire Tanakh is resting on it all screams loud and clear that you have you're going to be treated the way you you the way you choose. And not once in the entire book does the does Tanakh say that I know what you're going to do tomorrow. Which means that this is not a Jewish idea. Okay? This is not something that comes from within the fact that Hashem knows it's not only the and even though you think that that's only it's not when it says in in that Hashem knows he's talking about the present. Hashem knows what you do under in in your you can't hide no matter where you go. Hashem knows what you're going to do. What you're doing what you're doing now in the present. But what you're going to do tomorrow it doesn't say anyway. So we have to approach this question. I I think that there's there's there's there's there's a very big question, right? the question of which is the the most problematic um the biggest it's it's the biggest question on period right if the Torah says that XYZ right and the problem is it doesn't it's not true just right and there's a entire for this question for Eve You have that deals with this question extensively. You have addresses this question. Addresses this question. This is a a fundamental problem with a tyrant. Okay? This is now this is a Jewish question. What I mean is is that here is something that Hashem told me and this is my experience. Right? So this is and this is and and it just doesn't add up. So is something that that um that that I that I can ask because because you told me that it should work a certain way and it doesn't. Now is posed in the same way and I don't think deserves the same place because the fact that that I know what you're going to do tomorrow is something that Hashem never told us. And therefore, it's not important to me. If aid comes to me and he tells me, I don't believe Hashem knows what I'm going to do tomorrow. I don't think there's anything lacking in his Judaism. I I think he's a just opposite. I think that he's there's no mitzvah to believe that Hashem knows what I'm going to do tomorrow. Now, you could say that that that philosophically someone who says that Hashem doesn't know what I'm going to do tomorrow is implying that Hashem is lacking and Hashem is limited and therefore there's a problem. No. No. Okay. I'm not I don't get emotionally. You could say the same thing by anyone who thinks that Hashem loves anything or Hashem if if you say that that Hashem answered your then really what you're saying is is that Hashem reacted and Hashem can't react. Once you go into philosophy, there's there's an entire world of philosophy that half of your Judaism according to the philosophers is is is is problematic because the way you perceive and you think and you imagine Hashem to be is all idolatry. I don't care about that. I'm not a philosopher. I don't I I open a I open a Torah and I do as like what it says in the Torah. Now in the Torah I know the Torah tells me you have free will. You you should do whatever and and you're responsible for your outcomes and and so on and so forth. That's what the Torah says. The Torah never tells me that I know what you're going to do. And even by the way in the entire midrashim there is so much literature from there's three how many times do even you know the most don't even know but many learn how many so there's a there are I'm not saying there isn't but you we're talking about we we have to understand how how um how how unimportant it is for yiddeshkite and this knows what you're going to do tomorrow. It's just not it's unimportant. So, let's go back. Let's backtrack a little. The entire Yiddish kite is built on this of you have free will and this is something that we shouldn't and we can't compromise because if you do the outcome is that you could close the book and just it means you're living in a simulation and a sim the doesn't give me the impression I live in a simulation. I don't think I live in a simulation and I don't want to believe in a that it's just some that tell I just don't want to be part of it. I it doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't make sense not only to me it doesn't make sense to most classic now. So now the question is like this the is because is something that I know I experience I feel and it's something that told me himself. So here is now I come to the my philosophical tells me that mathematically it has to be that knows what I'm going to do tomorrow. What says look I know I know how works I not only I don't know how it works. It is something that I inherently do not have the capacity to begin to understand. So, you're asking me something that I know and I experience and I know for fact to be true. You're asking me how could this be true? There's some there's some theoretical mathematical argument that would imply that it can't be true. I don't understand that. If it's something that I could understand is one thing. If it's something that other people understand and punct. But there's something that is impossible for anyone to understand including no one. Nobody can understand the idea of not the idea of the nature of. So you're asking me something that I can't and don't understand and you want to say that because of that I can't I I don't have that's ridiculous. It doesn't work logically that you can't make such an argument. You can't ask on something that you know and experience. You know for a fact you can if so if there are two things that you know at the same time and they both have equal weight and they both you can experience both of them equally then these two things contradict each other. Maybe we have to compromise one one one or the other. What the Raman says is that I know fine. I don't know. I don't even know what it is. And you don't know what it is. So why you pretending like you know what it is? He's not the right says he's running. He's hiding behind the moon. He's not hiding behind behind the moon. He's saying that logically you're asking a flawed question because you're asking on something that you don't yourself understand. And whenever you ask something that you don't yourself understand, it's just it's just I don't know. So I I don't have to know. If I would know all other components and the mechanics of Hashem then and this would be a blind spot fine I would have to deal with it and maybe I would have come up with all fancy terutim but being that the entirety of Hashem we don't understand we can't understand so so I just I just I don't have to deal with it I not only I don't have to deal with it I don't have the capacity to deal with the question so I don't really so instead of answering the question the Ram says that the question is illegitimate question that's what the Ram is saying it's not a legitimate question and And that's so whereas most that deal with this problem compromise either or or and by the way most of them compromising the only one that I know that really really compromises in ine otherwise most I'm talking about the classic and maybe even and um clearly says that hashem does not have you he just I'm sorry he doesn't have on what anything that's to Hashem doesn't know how could Hashem not know he doesn't know now you're going into many this um um um they all the many that that you know each one of them in their own or like the we saw before that hashem know sees it but the Hashem seeing it as as a as foreshadowing sort of is um does not necessarily dictate you just like you know if you offer I don't want to go into other alternative mal I don't want to we're learning gramm now and I'm very comfortable to stay here because otherwise I think we can give a series of like 15 20 30 40 and go through every single of the and you know we could go through them and what's problematic with each individual these are conversations that we could definitely have but back to the ra um the ra instead of answering the question he doesn't really hide like I think the rabbid implies the ra says that it's not a legitimate question and um therefore what we know and that's how the ra finishes off he says we don't know how knows his creatures but what we do know is that a person has free will doesn't compel him and he doesn't dictate. And we don't only know this because that's what it says in the holy book. We know this logically. We know this philosophically. We know this without any shadow of doubt that we have free will. That's why the says in the say that a person is judged based on his based on his actions. And this is the foundation of the entire entire so I think it's very clear what the Ram is saying and um and I think that uh I think that uh this we'll we'll we'll we'll we'll finish it off with this and the the the outcome obviously is that we we should know and with this we finish And we'll see about the next project when you know when we get there. But the idea is that a person has to know that the message of the entire is that Hashem put us in this world and gave us free will and that's the most magical thing in the world. like the the Ram quotes from um and that is that a person is the only thing in this world that has his own independent um um choice and we therefore we that is sort of the the the what makes us unique what makes us he's the only he's unique man is unique in in that way and therefore we have to take that responsibility and we can't blame anything you can't blame any circumstantial any you can't blame anything. We have to take responsibility in in in our own lives and um make ourselves a mench and man up to the task and um grow and start you know where ends begins and so that is sort of the opening to and the message of is to shape up and we have all different all different all different ways how we can work on ourselves and and eventually on our and attain