Rabbi YY Jacobson & Dr. David Pelcovitz | Life After Divorce - Part 3

The Yeshiva.net And tonight we're also going to have in mind a special for somebody who's very sick. Person's name is Mendel Bass Freeda Blima. So this is from Dr. Pelkowitz, Rabbi YY and all the people that are here tonight. Should be a special for the person for Blima. Let's open up with openings first with Rabbi YY Jacobson. Please open it up. Thank you so so much. I want to welcome the hundreds of people who are with us. I want to really welcome a very dear friend and colleague. It's an honor to be with Dr. David Pelkowitz. Thank you to my dear friends Coach Menachem and Reb Asher. It's always a thrilling privilege and honor to be on your I don't know what do we call it? What is it called? Burn Flakes? What do we Well, they're they're switching it to YY Flakes, but okay. Well, if you have me another few times it may that may work. But it's really it's it's a an honor. It's always such a meaningful and inspirational evening. Hearts open, minds expand, and there is a lot of vulnerability and authenticity that I have found on these programs from all of you, especially those who come on live and share your stories and share your struggles and all of us come out I think more wise and more perceptive and more blessed and feeling a little less lonely. And that's that itself is an incredible feat and achievement. So thank you to Hashem and thank you to all of you for the opportunity. I also feel that it's important to behooves us to mention that in our hearts and in our minds and in our prayers are all of our brothers and sisters in Surfside, Florida and all of the families who have lost loved ones and all of the families who are who have had such a devastating and difficult week. And you know, you're we're thinking about you. We're sending you our love and our light and all those families who are waiting for miracles and through so much uncertainty, but we can hold hands and just be here for each other and and and pray together and be here and send our love and camaraderie because we are we are always one and united. So I just want to open up with one what I find to be a penetrating insight when we discuss life after divorce, but particularly thinking about second marriages. And it always struck me as interesting. There's a our sages teach in Talmud tractate Sota right in the beginning the first page 2A that 40 40 days before a child is born, there's already an announcement in heaven of who their soulmate is going to be. Thus plainly the plainly. But the Gamara says there that how does this work with the famous statement of our sages that marriages are as difficult as Yam Suf a splitting of the Red Sea. If God already predetermined your your soulmate, why is it why is it as difficult as the splitting of the sea? So the Gamara says Gamara Shani. There's a difference between the first marriage and the second marriage. The first marriage is mazel and the second marriage is my stuff. First marriage is based on mazel, meaning some type of spiritual soulful connection that Hashem decides. The second marriage is based on my deeds, our deeds. You have to deserve each other. And that makes it turns it into a completely different experience. But what does this mean? What does this really mean? And one of the interpretations is this. When people get married the first time, especially when they're younger, in their own experience it's more about mazel. You know, we're two little babies. Maybe older babies, maybe younger babies who are merging together and playing house with each other. And you know, we get to learn on the job. Everybody makes mistakes. And as long as you can laugh about it and develop a sense of humor and hopefully both people are working on themselves and have some self-awareness and emotional health, you can have an amazing marriage or at least a fairly good marriage. Sometimes we need a little help. Sometimes we need a lot of help. Once, however, the first marriage has been dissolved, thank you so either because of a tragedy, a death, or because of divorce. Whatever the reason is, a second marriage is a whole different world. It's which means now I really have to be emotionally much more aware. I can't ask of every 18-year-old and 21-year-old and 24-year-old to be fully emotionally aware. To some degree everybody must be emotionally aware. It's a healthy healthy sign. But for second marriages there is so much more honesty and authenticity and self-awareness that is required in order to make it work. I really have to work on myself. I have to become aware of my triggers. I have to be aware of my emotional memories. I have to really understand what happened in the first marriage. What's happening in the second marriage? I need to have such deep self-awareness. What happened? Why did it happen? If there was a divorce, what impact did it have on me? What role did I play on did I play in it? Who am I? What do I need to work on? In first marriages self-awareness is also a great blessing, but we get away with a little bit of it sometimes. The second marriage is my stuff. You really really have to be honest with yourself, with your spouse. You have to have a support system. You really have to go in with a maturity and authenticity that will that will allow it to be sustained. And I would just say as we're talking about it that there's a beautiful insight of somebody known as the he was the grandson of the Tanya. And he says fascinatingly when the Gamara speaks about first and second marriages, it doesn't necessarily mean you get married a second time. Within each marriage there's a first marriage and there's a second marriage. The first marriage is the marriage that many of us are aware of. You go under the hoopa. I make first marriage shine. Next. The second marriage is sometimes physically a second marriage. The first marriage didn't work out. The second marriage is sometimes in the first marriage after years of mistakes and setbacks and trials and tribulations and issues and sometimes difficult issues, sometimes challenges with children, sometimes mental challenges, loss, financial crisis, physical crisis, psychological and all of the other challenges and adverse adversity that people face in life. Even first marriages have to graduate from mazel to my stuff. It can't be anymore. Okay, we're soulmates. God wanted us together. You know, the put us together. We happen to It's all great. But now we have to be deserving of each other. I have to be deserving of you. We have to be deserving of each other. Now we have to really connect from a very internal and authentic point of view. And sometimes you have to reinvent yourself. And it's a very vulnerable experience, but it's a very rewarding experience. Cuz that creates a different level of a relationship. So for all those of us who go through these transformations and go through these changes, and they're difficult, remember they're also opportunities to create bonds and unions that are far more mature, far deeper, far more authentic. And may all of us be graced with the grace of God and with to be able to do it in a meaningful and inspiring and also exciting way. Thank you. Very YY, beautiful opening. Turn the the floor over to Dr. David Pelkowitz. Thank you. Thank you. First of all, I want to thank all of you. I've already learned uh so much from everybody who's spoken until now. And um I'm I'm I'm very grateful for it. I'll just share with share with you some of the thoughts that were bouncing through my head. Um the first is rather obvious, but I want to say it. And that's that the there was a study done um probably about 3 4 years ago published in the Harvard Business Review. And they asked a large group of people um do you consider yourself to be self-aware? Well over 90% of people thought they were very self-aware. But what was fascinating in that study is that while over 90% of people think that they have good insight into that their selves and into themselves and into their relationships, in fact, the mirror image is what's true. Okay, the opposite is what's true. Meaning that um most people overestimate their self-awareness. They overestimate their tendency to really get and view their role in things. And that's so crucial in the Shani. So amazingly crucial. Cuz to be able to be truly open to the perspective of others is um is is is is golden. You know, it's um you know, probably the the key to success in relationships in general and the key to success in marriage has to do with with the ability to to be able to see the world through the eyes of the other and to be able also to to be to have humility to be able to share perspectives and and you know, have have that kind of openness. So I I that was the main thought that was running through through my head. Um you know, so yeah, I'll just I'll just stand with that as a as an opening. Very much looking forward to the discussion. Okay, thank you Dr. Pelcovitz for that opening. I'm going to give everybody a little break. We're going to take a little interesting poll we put together and then let's get in. We got We got a tremendous amount of this before we start tonight. We got a tremendous amount of questions beforehand. And uh we're going to try to cover those, but again, live questions will go first. Anybody who has a question, please text it. The usher partners are Uh we'll try to get to that. Obviously, live questions will go first. So let's just start off with a poll. Let's just get a feeling from the crowd over here. Okay. Can everybody see that? Rabbi Weinberger, can you see it? Yeah. Okay. I'm ready to re-enter the dating world for a second time now because three options. I have worked on myself and noticed that the traits I brought into my first marriage. That's option A. Second option why I'm ready to re-enter the dating world for a second time is I'm divorced my spouse so now my problems are out of my way. Option C Option three, it's not healthy for a person to live alone. So choose whatever option you think is relevant to you or you think the right answer is. Don't worry, it's anonymous. We don't know what you're saying. The second question is what do you feel is the hardest aspect of second marriages is? Is it option A, the exes? Option B, the children, yours, mine, and ours? Or option C, the financial responsibilities. What do you think is the hardest aspect of second marriages? So I think those are our two broad questions. We get a little feeling from the room where we're holding. Give us 5 seconds. Let everybody vote. So I'm ready to re-enter the dating world for a second time now because 71% of people say I have worked on myself and noticed that the traits I brought into my first marriage. They they realize the self-awareness of themself and now they're ready to enter. 5% of people feel that they finally got rid of her or him and they're ready to move on. And uh the third answer is it's not healthy for a person to live alone. 25% of people said that. Second question is why do you feel the hardest What do you feel is the hardest aspect of second marriages is? Option A, the exes, 22%. The winner by far, 60% of people feel the hardest part of second marriages is the children, yours, mine, and ours. And 90% of people feel it's the financial responsibility. Just track that. If it's on your screen, you can just exit and uh we'll start off with some questions that we got. Again, anybody wants to ask questions, please text it. Um or and if you want to go on live, they'll go first. Okay. We're ready. Um I'll start with this question. Announce that if anybody wants to come on live, they'll go first, right? Anybody wants to go on live, they come on first. Rabbi Weinberger wants everybody to be interactive and ask live. And again, this is for everybody's civic. So let's let's let's just You don't have to show your face. When you ask a question, you don't have to show your face if you're uncomfortable, right? I wasn't my best I wasn't my best self in my previous marriage. I was young. It was years ago. I'm ready to get remarried. But shadchanim and prospective dates hear about and analyze my past life which I feel isn't relevant to me anymore. As far as I am concerned, the fact that I recognize how immature I was in the past makes me a much better person today. But I don't think others accept me for who I am currently but judging me for my past history. Rabbi Weinberger, Dr. Pelcovitz, don't don't fight over it. Whichever one wants to go first. It's really a question for both of you. Dr. Pelcovitz, I'll go go ahead. Yeah. Um Yeah, it's it's First of all, it's an honest question and it goes it goes very much with what the poll shows which is um you know, 70 You're not alone. 71% of people um uh you know, um feel that that they had to work on themselves. And that's a that's a you know, one of the keys to to making that zivug sheini work is the idea of being uh not only self-aware, but being honest and having the humility to be to be open to other ways of other ways of viewing yourself, but the key is is that if you do that, you always have control over that. You have control over working on yourself. Like most things in relationships, it's all about working on your own your own your own self-growth. You know, one of the big experts on marriage, one of the secular experts, says that marriage is the people-growing machine. Meaning that the exactly the areas that we need to work on, that's what marriage forces us to work on. I've been blessed, thank God, with a wonderful marriage for you know, well over four decades. But what I found myself doing over the last 40 years is exactly the areas I needed to work on. My wife was always um extra wonderful woman, extremely um um loose about being prompt and on time. I came from a real yekkish family that was extremely like way to um way to strict about time. And what's happened over the last four plus decades is I was forced to work on being more relaxed about about time and maybe being late to a shmorgasbord at a wedding, you know? And my wife, um if you were flying on the wall in our home as we're getting ready to go to a chasseneh, she's usually ready now 15, 20 minutes before me. Because we worked on it. And we we grew in exactly the areas we needed to grow in. And I'll just say one last thing before I hand it over to back to uh to my colleagues here. Um and that's there's a beautiful um Tiferes Yisrael in Yevamos that talks about the etymology of the word nesuin, the Hebrew word for marriage. And he says in the fourth perek of Yevamos men and women, there are inevitable differences. And those inevitable differences could either be a massa because embedded in the word nesuin is a burden, something that weighs us down. Or beautifully he says the other meaning of the word massa is a song. It's a niggun. Something that's transcendent that that that basically lifts us up. And that's always up to us. Now, if we're able to have that perspective, it makes all the difference in the world. And that's what I hear you're you're talking about. You know, everybody deserves not only deserves that second chance and for people to see them differently, but that's the sign that you're doing what you need to be doing in life. Thank you. Beautiful. I would just Of course, I second what Dr. Pelcovitz said. I would just add you know, we live in a culture that we call today the cancel culture. And I don't have to tell you how antithetical that is to one of the fundamental ideas of Judaism. To para to quote the Rambam, my Maimonides in the laws of teshuvah, repentance, chapter three. Ein lecha davar ha'emed bifnei ha'teshuvah. Nothing stands in the path of teshuvah. You know, if we can't forgive, if we don't have the courage and the confidence to be able to give people a chance to reinvent themselves, to mend mistakes, to make amends, to apologize, to say I'm sorry, then we live in a society that can't be repaired. Is there anybody who doesn't make mistakes? So now, let's say somebody made mistakes and let's say they made bad mistakes. That's not the question. The question is are they ready to stand up to their mistakes and be accountable and become new become a new person? You and I know very well some of the most authentic and deepest people you will meet in life are people who have made terrible mistakes. But they had the courage to face those mistakes, to apologize, to learn their lessons. I have students and friends who have fallen to the depths of addiction. They have destroyed their lives. They have destroyed other people's lives. And I met them in the worst times and you looked at people who have literally become so destructive. And yet some of those individuals today I look at them and they are heroes. They are extraordinary people. In the words of the Gemara in Brachot lamed aleph b'makom she'baalei teshuvah omdim ein tzaddikim gemurim omdim. There is such a vulnerability and honesty and authenticity in them. I once heard from Rabbi Sacks of blessed memory, Rabbi Jonathan Sacks, zichrono livracha. He said that there was a uh great story, a manager in IBM. And this manager cost the company He made a horrible mistake and he cost the company $10 million in losses. So, he went in the next morning, he said to the to the leader, I think his name his name was uh Henry Watson, if I'm not mistaken, and he gave in his resignation papers and with tears in his eyes, he resigned and he says, "Listen, I wish I could pay the company back. I don't have the money, but I'm leaving no strings attached, no severance pay. It's the least I can do." And Watson looks at him and says, "Where do you think you're going?" He says, "Well, instead of you firing me, I'm just leaving." He says, "Firing you? Why would I do such a foolish thing? I just spent $10 million on your education." That's called perspective. It's called wisdom. When a mistake, even a sin, becomes a source and a catalyst for awareness, it's redefined into something that becomes a springboard for tremendous connection and tremendous positivity. So, if somebody is faking it, if somebody is manipulating the system, if somebody is lying, fine. But when you see a genuine person who has learned from mistakes, these are the people that we want to embrace, just like we want to be embraced when we make mistakes and we stand up to our mistakes with honesty. Beautiful. Okay, we have a lot of live questions. Let's go to the first live. You know, you know. Okay, unmute. Yes, I hear you. Hi, how are you? Hi. Thank you for taking my question and thank you for this great show. Thank you all. So, my question my question is, what takes priority? Being close to children or to elderly parent or to relocate to where the possible bashert lives. And my situation is I'm a 45 years old, a father of three young kids. The oldest is 15. And uh we got divorced 2 years ago and I finally feel ready to start looking for a shidduch. I live in a small Jewish community in Western Canada and I'm not aware of potential shidduch here locally, which might mean that me or the bashert will have to relocate. My mother uh the mother of my kids, she would like to stay here. My mother lives in Israel and she is getting weaker and older and she might need me sooner than later as I'm the only child. So, what should uh take priority in your opinion? Staying here for the kids and be unavailable for my mother. Staying Staying here might limit my options for shidduch candidate as well. Moving to wherever the shidduch will take me or moving to Israel to be more available for my mother and to look for shidduch there. What would you advise? So glad that we have uh we're live right here. It's a great question and a difficult question. It sounds like a question for uh for for a rabbi to start with. I or any of the rabbi in the room. I think we have to acknowledge that it's a difficult question. It's not like a question you just say, you know, embrace this and reject this easily. It's It's a complex question. It's an intricate question. You know, and I think it's extremely important to be honest and aware and realize realize all the sides here and the value in each one. The value in being there for your mother, of course, kibbud em, and the value of being closer to your ex with the children, and the value, of course, of you having the ability to rebuild a life. And this is something that runs very very deep. It would seem to me, if somebody was very close to me, it would seem to me that I would always ask the first question is, since I have children and our relationships with our children are very precious to us and our children need us, especially when there's a divorce, I think that always has to be a very very important priority. In other words, what do my children really need and what can I do to build my future in a way that yes, I should be able to have a good life, but as much as possible not to compromise the well-being of the children. Because for a child to have a relationship with both parents, especially after a divorce, is very very important. It's very very vital. So, that's the question that has to be asked. Perhaps with the proper positive approach, you could bring your shidduch to uh where are you? Western Canada, you said? So that you can have the best of both worlds. You maybe be there could be an arrangement for some dates you can go there, some days they could come there, but I would try to be very aware of your children's needs. Don't be Some people just say, "Nah, it's not my problem. I'm going to go get married." You don't want to do that because if your marriage is going to cost you your children, it's going to be something very very painful for you and very painful for them. So, just be very very sensitive to that. In terms of your mother, kibbud em is one of the greatest mitzvahs, but I think, generally speaking, our responsibility first and foremost comes to our children and you do whatever you can to help your mother. Maybe we can hire some Maybe you can hire somebody for your mother. Maybe you have to hire somebody to be able to be there for your mother. You can make visits. You can go to Israel. I mean, today it's a little difficult, you could make visits to your mother. There's, of course, technology. There's different ways you can take care of your mother, but I would be very careful, once again, not to do it at the expense of first of all, you not having a future and second of all, um compromising the relationship with children. A pivotal recommendation we make almost routinely after a divorce is that um the um parents do their best to stay in the same community. You know, sure there you may there may have to be some changes, but kids do so much better if they have the stability and predictability, especially as they get older, being able to hold on to their friends, being able to uh to have an actively involved um in your case, especially a father. It's a major predictor of their long-term outcomes. And um I think that I can't agree more with uh with that sentiment. Especially uh do you have a son Do you have sons? Or your kids, are they are they male or female? One son and two daughters. Yeah, so um I don't want to be um you know, it it it it but both both your daughters and your son desperately need to have you in their life. And and I agree, you know, kibbud em is transcendent, but there should be a way to to balance both needs, but um you know, especially for for a son, you know, like it keep you here all night just reviewing some of the recent research on the importance of both parents um you know, providing that protective shield for their kids and how essential that is. Thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, let's go to the next live question. You're on. Uh you guys hear me? Yes, we do. Oh. Okay, thank you so much. Uh just wanted to first say uh thank you for doing this topic. It's like changed my past few weeks since you guys have been doing it. So, my question is um how do I how do I overcome the fear of trauma from my previous marriage uh when I start to date again or and also how do I know when I'm like ready to start dating again? Um since the trauma, I have like a fear of like you know, is this going to happen again? How do you trust a person again? Even though I'm in therapy and doing a lot of work on myself, reading listening to the classes, it's it's like a struggle for me that I I struggle with. So so the the key I just want to say one thing. I just want to say that we got a tremendous amount of questions. The question you just asked was like the number one email and I just got an email during the show. What? Okay, but the I'm saying this this question that I've been getting is, how do I after I've been through such a difficult marriage, such a traumatizing marriage, I was married to a narcissist, I was married to this, I was married to that. I'm coming out of it. So, I just want to I just want to emphasize how important that question is. That's all. Yeah, just as an as an opening an opening thought on it, the key to overcoming a trauma is to avoid avoidance. Is you have to be kind to yourself, but the the pathway to resilience is to gradually expose yourself to the very thing that you're most most frightened of. And to but to to treat yourself kindly, to do it a little bit at a time, to face what you're frightened of. And and that's how, you know, how how people begin the healing of their heart and their soul. And if I may add, may I? Please. Yeah, I was that's why I was being quiet. Yeah. You know, you say you say, "When do I know I'm ready? When do I know I'm ready?" It's this is the big question. I think we got a lot of emails, right, to the bashert. People say, "When do I know I'm ready? Was it Is it after a week? Is it after 10 years? Is it after 3 years? Is it after 6 months?" And I think I don't know that there's a fixed time when you say, "Okay, I'm divorced this and this amount of time and now I'm ready to start dating." I think it's more really about self-awareness and I think you have to ask yourself three questions. Minimum three questions. Number one, what happened? What happened in the first marriage? And that and and what happened to end the first marriage? Number two, why did it happen? Number three, what impact did it have on me? Or how did I contribute to the termination of the first marriage? So, sometimes you have people who have been in therapy in the first marriage already for 5 years. So, they're not going to therapy after they get divorced. They've been already in therapy for 5 years and it's maybe the therapy that allowed you to get divorced. It's maybe the therapy that allowed you to emancipate yourself from a very, very toxic and poisonous and venomous marriage. Perhaps, perhaps not. So, you may be really, really ready. But the point is you really have to be able to answer these questions. Do I know what happened? Do I really know what happened? I don't mean my version of events. Like Dr. Bellwood spoke about self-awareness. Not my version. To really be open what happened. Why did it happen? What were the dynamics? What type of person am I? What type of person did I emerge from this? What is my role in this? You know, sometimes you left your spouse. Sometimes your spouse left you. Sometimes you both left each other. But I want to have an understanding. Did I play a role? If I was married to a very, very dysfunctional person, but I am told that I was also guilty, it behooves me to explore it. Not It's no good just to say, "Oh, the other person was crazy. The other person is mentally, mentally challenged. There was no hope. I'm a very, very healthy person." If somebody who is somewhat wise and perspective, perceptive tells me, you know, "I also share part of that." I really have to be able to explore it. I have to understand. Even if I'm really not responsible for it, it was really an impossible situation. I I tried to do everything. I still want to know. Why did I stay in the marriage for 10 years? If this person was so difficult. Why did I stay in the marriage for 10 years? Why did I stay in the marriage for 8 years? Why did I stay in the marriage for 18 years? Just you have to be able to answer all of these questions. And you have to have real support to be able to answer all of these questions. To be able to face it in a very profound way. And again, if I was the perpetrator, I certainly have to go through a lot of scrutiny. I don't mean perpetrator literally necessarily. If I'm the victim, why did I stay so long? When I have an answer to these three questions, what happened, why did it happen, and what impact did it have on me, then I think I can go into dating in a more wholesome and authentic and meaningful way. Build on that a little bit. Um that's, you know, I can't agree more. But also keep in mind, it's not an event, it's a process. It's going to be a process. So, it's not like you're going to wake up one morning and say, um you know, I'm I'm definitely ready. Um so, you go through that cheshbon hanefesh of asking those three questions, um getting in touch with your goals. It says in Mishlei, "Be'ein chazon yifrah am." Without that vision and knowing where you're going and you know, what your strengths are and what you're looking for, you're you're you're you're going to that's going to be a key to happiness. But I just want to share just very briefly something that's um I find very helpful in thinking about this broader question. And it's a study that um has an an a book that's um really had influence on the way I think about exactly what you're asking about. It's a guy named Pilmer, well-known sociologist, I think at Cornell University. And he interviewed um a thousand people who had been remarried. And he asked them get Some of them had been Some of them this has been over a very long period of time. He asked them about their wisdom. The wisdom of having been through more than one marriage. And and what have you learned over the course of your your long life? Some of these people were in their 80s and 90s about what really matters when you go back for your second for for the for for the for the zivug sheini. And their core wisdom was, you want to find somebody who's going to bring out the best in you. And that's all part of the process. It's not necessarily therapy, but it's are you better with this person or you not better with this person? Number two is what we know is um is um you need to not keep score. The whole idea again that a that a healthy relationship is about giving and not being a ledger keeper. You know, I'll do this because you've done that. You know, they say, you know, their core wisdom is you have to give in a good relationship, you have to give 100 100. It's not giving 50 50. It's giving 100 100. And then to be able to enjoy one each other enough to turn towards each other in a time in a time of sorrow. In a time in a time of stress. And I think as you start to date again, that becomes healing. And it may take it may take a lot of time, but it's through the relationship that the healing takes place. It takes courage and it takes experience. But it takes I think sometimes looking at the wisdom of others who have gone through this before you. Which is the beauty of this of this program. Want to push the the knob a little bit. I just got an email literally 2 minutes ago. Let's just take this up a notch. Um somebody sent me an email. It's want to use this story, but it's the question is more bigger. This person was divorced twice already. How does one navigate the divorce world when there's probably over a 70% divorce rate in the remarriage world? Chances that you'll date somebody not mentally healthy is pretty strong. I've been married to someone whose first turned out to be gay. And then I found out I was married to somebody who was previously married to a who is who had a borderline personality disorder and left the marriage. None of this was detectable while I was dating them. So, now as I enter into the dating world for the third time, this is what I'm dealing with. Like it's so dangerous. I couldn't detect it through dating. Hello, Y Y? I think that it is I think what Dr. Pelkowitz said, this is a process. This is exactly why it's a process. I think we really I mean, this is true even for first marriages, but certainly second marriages, you need to take all the time you need to determine all of these truths. You have to be able to ask all the questions you needed to ask need to ask. An idea may be sometimes people go together to a professional, to a therapist of one of them or the other one or both of them. If that's necessary to be able to explore things that may be bothering you. You also need the person should be able to share with you honestly their struggles. As I said in the beginning, you know, second marriages require a real level of maturity and self-awareness. We all have to come to terms with the fact that we're not young people going into our first marriage. We have all been through a lot. And we have to be able to face these challenges. So, yes, take your time. Find out about the person. Find out about their personality. Interact with them in different ways. Open yourself up so that they can open themselves up to you at least to a significant degree. And you have to be able to have the freedom to ask each other real, raw, raw questions. You know, to get the skeletons out in the open. And I think it's so important. This is exactly It's it's so important. When you say 70% or I don't know if it's 70 sometimes Whatever it is, but a big percent of second marriages that end up in divorce, you know, it's often because we're not aware of how many challenges come with a second marriage. A second marriage you have to be In Yiddish, it's called an ausgearbeitete mensch. You got to be a worked out person. Because there's too many too many obstacles that can interfere with the marriage. He's bringing his past and she's bringing her past. And both of many of them have had very difficult experiences. And remember, we bring it all into our marriage. So, if we're not clear with our emotional memories, if we're not aware of our traumas, if we're not aware of our mental challenges, psychological, emotional, we cannot bring that into a healthy conversation. And sometimes we need the help of a real professional. It could chas v'shalom end in disaster. So, that's why I think it's so important to be able to take this process very seriously and not jump into it from an unhealthy point of view. I have seen people who jumped into second marriages. And you know what they were really doing? They were just trying to run away from their past. They were not really ready for the second marriage. They just wanted to tell themselves, "I'm also married. I got rid of my stigma. I'm not anymore divorced." So, first of all, we have to get rid of the stigmas. One of the beautiful things about this program is you want the stigma issue. It's like, "Oh, you're divorced." As if people who are divorced live in some different planet in some different universe. You know, to be able to have a real open conversation. Second marriages are very serious. You want to be in a dayanus. You don't just go into a second marriage. There's a Beis HaLevi who speaks about the fact in Parshas Masse, Moshe says where they traveled from and where they went to, right? Vayeitzei Yaakov Be'er Sheva vayelech Charana. So, he explains, he says sometimes people relocate not because they want to go to the new place. It's just they hate the first place, right? People run from Brooklyn to Lakewood cuz they love Lakewood usher. Or cuz they hate Brooklyn. Depends. Some people love Lakewood. Some people despise Brooklyn, right? So you have to understand don't just run away. I can't deal with my old situation. So I run into a new situation. Do you really want a new situation? Is this really the best thing for you? These are things we all have to work out in our lives. Then you have people who are scared. They're scared. They'd rather stay home by themselves. Why should they start this whole process? That's the opposite. What would what would you tell such a person? Some physic. Yeah. So first of all, we have to have compassion for our fear. Don't judge your fear. It is It is scary. If a person was Let's say it bluntly. A person was in a miserable marriage. From day one. Or not from day one. It was a miserable marriage. They tell themselves I'd rather let me remain single for the rest of my life. I'll live in solitary confinement, right? And I'll fight with myself. I have enough conflict within myself. Somebody once told me that they want to marry themselves cuz they have a split personality. Right? Somebody once said the definition of chutzpah is you come to Dr. Pelkowitz cuz you have a split personality and then you want a group discount. That's the definition of chutzpah. The point is you have to acknowledge the fear and you have to be able to say I understand why I have fear. Somebody once said it's not that great people don't have fear. It's great people who confront their fear and don't allow their fear to control their lives. So when I have a fear and I say I really want a relationship. I really want to be connected. We all want to be connected. Like we used to live together. Person I want connection. We want attachment and there's no attachment like in marriage. But there's a lot of fear. Acknowledge it. Have compassion. And then say but when I have an opportunity to transcend the fear, not just to transcend fear because there's a real opportunity here for connection. I don't want to live by fear. I don't want to allow fear to paralyze me for the rest of my life. I deserve more than this. If we want to use spiritual terminology, you're a part of God. You're a piece of God. The piece of God in you is fearless. So tune into that space. And even though we have a lot of fear, don't let the fear paralyze you and take snuff out the divinity in you, which is your capacity for courage and creativity. And really the ability to live a big life and a large life and an expansive life. So let me talk a little a little bit about hope and faith. There's there's some newer studies that have come out especially recently since 2016 and on that shows they actually a lower divorce rate than there used to be in in remarriages for a variety of reasons. I think people are becoming more sophisticated and more you know more open and and maybe a little bit less defensive. There really is hope. And when you go in with hope and that belief in yourself especially it could become a really self-fulfilling prophecy in the right direction. Now remember the Hebrew word hope is the word tikva, right? Embedded in the word tikva is the word kav or cord. And that cord means that you're not twisting in the wind alone. And you know if we go in with that level of optimism and belief in ourselves it it it it often lately there's much better odds. As long as you have honesty and you know avoid avoidance. Okay Dr. Pelkowitz we have a we have a tremendous amount of live questions. So let them get into it. Everybody again please feel free to ask. If you want to ask live this is the time to ask. You have the biggest people over here. Just have a run. You're on. Hello. My question is as such. I have two kids about two sons. But they're still younger. They're both under the age of four. And I'm thinking that what how important is it for me to be there for them right now? Or maybe it's more important for me to be there for myself. I'm thinking of moving somewhere. Maybe be moving to Israel to work on myself. Like you said you have to be a guy with mensch you know to get married a second time. And I want to work on that. So my question is is that what is the priority? To work on myself or to be there for my kids that are still younger right now? Yeah so so let me let me let me take that. Um there's there's been quite quite a number of studies. I um I a number of years ago was part of field trials on when they were developing the post-traumatic stress disorder diagnosis. One of the questions that was asked by the researchers in the field trials was when's the worst time in life or the most vulnerable time in life to have a traumatic event happen to you. And it turned out it was in the preschool years. Um I I can't emphasize enough how incredibly important it is for you to be there for your for your children during their preschool years. They need you now more than just about any other age. Preschool years and adolescence. But number one is the preschool years. They tend to get things wrong then. They tend to They're more likely to blame themselves. They're more likely to be confused. And they need the protective shield of the stability of of of of a father and preferably both parents if both parents can be actively involved in their upbringing. Okay Rabbi Rabbi can we go to the next live question? Is that okay? Yeah. I just want to know I just literally 10 seconds I want to add. Your your desire and longing to work on yourself is noble and beautiful. The point I think Dr. Pelkowitz is making and I absolutely agree is work on yourself but do it in close proximity to your children. So that as often as possible you could make sure that this relationship is consolidated through the times that you have with them and the conversations you have with them and the fun that you have with them and the pizza and the ice cream and the and the sports and the hiking and the frisbee and the football and the learning and the and the singing and all of the relationships both formal and informal. And during that time make carve out time every single day to develop develop yourself. Israel is a wonderful place. We all love Israel. Israel is our homeland. But God has placed you here with your children. And the says in the end of and I quote call the land of Israel. So bring into your life and you'll be in Israel. And you'll work on yourself there. Okay. Let's go to the next live question. You're on. Hi you hear me? Loud and clear. So first of all thank you all for running this wonderful program. I just want to give every one of you a blessing that you should have continued and good health to continue to help everybody move forward in life. Thank you so much. Amen. Yes. So um navigating boundaries assuming that much of this endless life's work but enough of it has been done on ourselves to go forward in a healthy enough way with someone else who has done the same whether it's a divorce or widow or whatever that is. As I'm crossing the threshold myself right now blessing. Um navigating the boundaries putting boundaries around when you're not 20 and you're in your 50s or whatever you're in. Um the amount of noise and distractions that are thrown from the outside. It could be responsibilities. I'm not talking about family though. I'm not. I'm talking about outside people. Um even social media friends people that have been gathered over the years. And how can that couple build walls around them initially to make that we I call it the we a strong and secure foundation enough to guard some privacy there. And at what point would somebody seek support preventatively instead of waiting for some calamity or some intruder who refuses to retreat or something? Question. Dr. Pelkowitz. Yeah. I Yeah that's a beautifully put question. Um and I think the the key thing to keep in mind is that there's never a um there's there's when it comes to boundaries at times of stress. Look stress um especially the chronic stress of life uh very often gets us to a place that it's hard to think clearly. It's hard to think straight. Um when we're stressed out um we tend we're more likely to lose our temper. We're more likely to interpret neutral things as negative. But um um more more importantly in terms of what if I'm hearing you correctly in terms of your question it sounds like what you're looking for here is just strategies in terms of how do we find and preserve in our relationship the us um without without having it diluted by the demands of of work and and and and friends and more extended family. And that's all about what we're why why we've all been talking about all evening is is it has to do with keeping our eye on the ball. You know, we have to have a clear set of our goals and where we're going and what we want to you know, what we what we want to do. If we if we have that clearly in our head and then you come up with a plan. You come up with a pragmatic kind of plan on how to build in the time for the us. It may be some and and to ritualize it. It may be you know, the kind of self-care things that we've been hearing about throughout the pandemic. Going out on a regular basis, ritualize it. You know, special time alone during certain parts of the of the week. Um times to talk to each other, to turn towards each other. All those kind of things can can can really serve as the glue and the ritualized kind of protection of the boundaries. And um I don't know how to do it though without being very conscious about it and building it into the fabric of our regular lives as a regular armor. Why what? Yeah, I uh I agree with Dr. Pelcovitz. I think we can move on. Okay, there's another question. to just Can I just thank you? I just want to say you what you just said is puts us in a position of empowerment. So, I I truly appreciate that and I thank you. And I think this It's great to hear your optimism also. It's terrific. And I think this answers for everyone. Everyone to find the boundary do the boundaries and show them by as a feeling whatever it is with social media these days. Um we have a question that came in. I am divorced, remarried for many years now. The kids go back and forth. The other parent is really not healthy. And when they come back to my house, they're totally disregulated and that affects the and affects the siblings, affects the new marriage. What can I do to help the transition be smoother for everyone? Yes, so you're talking about the stress of re-entry. Which is very very common. When kids go back and forth, especially when the other parent is prob is problematic, you know. Um so there again, what I would do is first of all um validate validate validate. When your child comes back and seems a little out of it or disregulated because of the pain that sometimes comes their way in a difficult visit with an unhealthy parent it could be helpful for them to have a way to be in contact with you. You know, if they have a cell phone they could take, that could be extremely helpful. Um talk to them about a safety plan. If there are really dangerous things going on, they should always have a safety plan. Where you know, somebody who they could go to in some way to get you. Um that's extremely important. Um and and to to then there's the practical practical stuff with school to make sure that the school knows you know, what what the what the parenting plan schedule has attached to it. So, they know that he or she may be having a hard time um you know, the next day in school. And you know, every every you know, the the educators in the school need to know what's happening so that they could make a it's often helpful to have extra sets of books. It's also often helpful to the whole spend the whole night just talking about this. But the bottom line is is to make make the make your child aware that they're not alone. That you're there as part of the protective shield that's giving them that sense of support and and um and and love that that could get them through these difficult times, but also a very practical kinds of kind of coping plan. What happens if the kids if you if you realize that there's some alienation going on? The kids come back very cold. Um the the the relationships change. You realize there's something there. Right. But why why let's hear what do you say about alienation? You've been going through these calls much longer than me. First of all, it's extremely painful. And you know, as parents, we all have to know even if the divorce was a difficult one and the marriage prior to the divorce was a very challenging one. Never ever should we use our children as missiles and manipulate them as instruments to take revenge or combat our ex. It's so important. It's not your ex that you're damaging. He or she will suffer 10% but 90% of the affliction, 90% of the suffering is going to your own children. By not giving them the ability to have a good relationship with parents. Even in the best of marriages, we're living in difficult times. Children need both of their parents. Especially there's a divorce. So, their lives were shaken up. So, the basic decency is just basic menschlichkeit. You owe it to them not to alienate of their parents. This doesn't mean you love your ex. This doesn't mean you don't have issues with your ex. But it does mean that whatever the situation unless there's outright danger you're dealing with an abusive person or a dangerous person. We It's It's It's so foolish. It's so counterproductive. It's so wrong. It's so immoral not to allow a child to be able to have a good relationship with tatty and with mommy. And if this is if this is happening if this is happening it's important for you to react to it not from a place of vengeance. You know, we get into that combative mode. I will teach her she's a crazy lady. She has borderline personality. I will teach her a lesson. I will fix her wagon. Or the other way around. I will make this guy's life miserable. He's starting up with me. I'll start up with him. It's important to understand these emotions, but you don't want to stoop down to that level. Have your vision intact. Your eyes have to be on the target. What's the target? What's the objective? The objective is every decision I make is in order to secure the best possible future for my children and for myself. Is the next sentence that I'm going to say? Is the next action that I'm going to do? Is the next telephone call or WhatsApp message I'm going to send? Is this going to advance the well-being of myself and the children for the future? My job is not justice. Don't try to exact justice and fairness. Sometimes we cannot have that in this world. Sometimes we cannot have that with our ex. Sometimes things are very difficult. I want to ask one question. What is the best possible scenario that I could create for myself and my children for the best possible future? That is the judgment that we have to make. And that means sometimes I have to not be able to get full justice and fairness. I'm not dealing with a very difficult situation, but don't take your eyes off the target. It's not about anger. It's not about vengeance. It's not about scoring points. It's not showing who's stronger. It's not about getting back. These are all emotions that we have as human beings. Your target is what's going to guarantee the best possible future for my tired kinderlach and for myself. And when alienation is happening, you need good advice from top top experts in this area. What can be done? What should be done? But it should be done from a place of compassion and well-being for the children. Do not allow it to become a battle. Don't allow yourself to become entangled in the sad sad scenarios of you said this, I say this, I'm going to win because then we all lose. If I if I could just make expand a little bit make one point I've been wanting to make tonight. And that's a series of studies that were done in doctoral dissertations that at Israeli graduate school, you know, at NYU. Um and what was found by the researchers in a variety of studies is that when there's conflict over child rearing between parents especially around issues of from kite. So, let's say you're fighting over you know, I want to make wake my son up for mincha on shabbos and the the other you know, former spouse saying, "No, let him let let let him let let let him sleep." Or whatever it might be. Just fighting over things like that it almost guarantees that the child will not internalize that value. One of the best predictors of long-term outcomes for kids is the ability of parents to figure out a way to work at each other's side, especially around issues having to do with from height or parenting in general. And when we get in the way of that, it almost guarantees the opposite of what we're after. You know, many kids who end up after divorce leaving our way of life, it's it's often could be penned down to that one point, which seems like a simple point, but it means that we have to constantly work on ourselves to ask ourselves the key question, to our way of saying about, you know, what matters here? What really matters, you know? What do we really want for our kids? You know, many many kids um if they're caught in the middle in these ways, um end up um end up just um go going away from from our way of life, and it's certainly not what we want. You can get very emotional disregulated when the kids you have her kids and my kids, and then they fight and they you stick up, and she does, and then this whole Right. Like what you're saying is very important. What are like a tip or two for somebody in that situation and with everything going on to be able to take that deep breath and be grounded? Ex- exactly what you're saying. Exactly what you're saying. Very hard, very hard. There's beautiful three words in safer Hasidim, going back to the Middle Ages, right? So, it's just three words that captures everything. Achris Katata Charata. After argument, there is regret. The ability to do what our mothers probably taught us when we were kids, you know, to take a breath, you know, try to buy some time, walk away. You'll never regret holding holding on to your anger for long enough to figure out how to how to handle it. And then you deal with it a little bit later. It's it's never something that people people feel badly about afterwards. You know, there's a key question that's always asked. Think about what was your major frustration last year at this time. It may have been the same thing, but it's usually hard to even remember what it was. You know, it's it's more about the process of getting the kids out of the triangle. I think it's also so important. You know, sometimes we have expectations that are not realistic. If you're dealing with an ex who as you say is suffering in some serious way, and the children are being affected, you know, I can have a dream reality where everything is perfect, but it's not perfect. And I have to adjust my life and my love to reality. And to be able to say, you know, this is much beyond me. This is part of God's plan. I never planned this. I never imagined this. And I have to be able to realize that I need to be humble and vulnerable in the presence of a very difficult situation. I have to I have to have somebody on whose shoulders I can cry. You must have a support system cuz this is not easy. You went into your marriage, you were 22 years old. You were wonderful bocher or valedictorian from Bais Yaakov or Bais Soruchol or Bais Yaakov or Bais Yaakov or Bais Yaakov or Breuer or Neve, we don't discriminate. We have everybody here. And suddenly you ended up in this mess, and now you have three beautiful angels. Yeah, going back and forth. A very difficult situation. There's a lot of tears. There's a lot of grief. There's a lot of grief. There's anger. There's denial. And then there has to be acceptance. And acceptance means God, look at David Hamalach. Read Tehillim. Read Tehillim and you'll see how David, his life was shattered. He didn't say my life is not shattered. Everybody wanted to kill him. His own parents threw him out of the house. His own father threw him out of the house. His brothers threw him out of the house. They thought he was a mamzer. That's a whole story. But he had a very powerful relationship with Hashem. And I want to say this, you know, sometimes we are in very difficult situations, and I can't just snap my fingers and make my ex healthy. I can't just snap my fingers and and and fix this marriage. There's a lot of grief work, and there's a lot of acceptance that's needed. And I have to tell Hashem, "Listen, this is where you sent me. These are my diamonds, but I'm not going to run away. I'm going to accept what I have. I'm going to embrace it. I'm going to live up to my potential and do the best I can do with faith, with positivity, with trust, and realize I'm not going to be able to control the outcome of everything. I'm going to give it my best shot. I'm going to put into my children all the love I can, but I ultimately can't control my ex." So, get that support. Do whatever you can. And then realize that there is a difficult situation, but you know what? One day these kids are going to get older, and all the love that you put into them and all the trust that you have given them and all of the attachment that you invested in them, it's not going to go it's not going to go to waste. But don't try to control the outcome of all these situations cuz we really can't. Okay, we got a lot still a lot more questions. We have so much more to cover. Okay, you're on live now. Okay, um hi, my name is um Jacob, and I have a question about you said that um you know, one of the three parts of the ideal couple, the third one is um the these two people, they they face each other in times of crisis or turmoil. Um and the second marriage, that's really about honesty and and your behavior, like you're deserving each other. Um but if somebody doesn't know how to be, if somebody's never been that way, and they're now dating somebody, and um and it's gone some like some time into the into this relationship, and it needs to come out that you're um you you've been having some struggles that you didn't acknowledge to them before. You weren't honest with them about. Um but you were also struggling with things or um and also maybe um you haven't like you you want to avoid telling them things that you're not comfortable talking about. Um with somebody that's not that um open or is not used to being that open with somebody, um you know, it's it like when by the time they need to open up, they're kind of being honest about being formally dishonest. So, it's um it I don't like I'm I guess my question is how would somebody regain trust when you're needing to be honest about how you weren't formally honest, and there's a lot that you can open up more about? Wow. Doctor Is my machabbis Dr. Pelcovitz met at the Hadassah? Um yeah, it's a poignant question, and I'm I'm you know, I um and and I hear the pain behind it also. Um the number one thought I have is be kind to yourself. You know, be kind to yourself. Very often people come from backgrounds where they haven't been lucky enough to necessarily have had either the right kind of role models or the right kind of support or or to to have had a past that they might be, you know, not not not so not so proud of. The process though of gradually um naming the monster um it's called meta-communication. You communicate about communicating. Meaning that you turn to this individual and say, "Listen, you know, I've been struggling in certain areas, and um um I I I it's hard for me to be open as as much as I'd like to be." And then you little by little start to talk about it. If it's the right person, with time, she will um she she will will will forgive or will support or will own up to herself not always having been necessarily completely open about things. But that's part of the process. You know, there's um the Hebrew word chet, which is, you know, the word for for a sin, is um etymologically tied to the word for missing the mark. Doesn't mean I'm an evil person. There are times we miss the mark. So, we're told that the archers of Shevet Binyamin um you know, hardly ever missed the mark. Lo lo yochti. They didn't miss the mark. According to that way of viewing things, it means that in the right kind of relationship, um we we learn how to get a do-over, and we find a person who gives us a do-over, and somebody who will be open enough to allow us to learn from our mistakes and to change setback to feedback. I'll tell you a beautiful Hasidic story. A Jew once came to his Rebbe. He was known as the Rebbe of Shmuel of Lubavitch Maharash. And he was embarrassed to tell the Rebbe what he did. So, what do you do when you're embarrassed? What do What do they do on Zoom when they're embarrassed? He comes to the Rebbe and he said, "I have a best friend who committed this and this sin and he's embarrassed to come and tell you. So, he sent me to ask on his behalf what he can do to repair." So, the Rebbe looks into his eyes and says, "I don't understand. Why did you say a friend have to send you to represent him? Why couldn't your friend come here and say that his friend, which means you, sent him to ask me the question?" So, he broke down and he said, "Because this is a lie. I I'm the one who did it." So, the Rebbe gave him a way out. He told him how to repair it. So, somebody asked me once, "Why couldn't he play along with him? The guy is lying. He's embarrassed. You know how many people come on Zoom and say, 'My friend wants to ask a question.' It happens all the time. Big deal. We all know that it's not the friend. Okay, the Rebbe knew, so he fooled So, would the Rebbe had an ego He didn't have an ego that he can't be deceived. Let it go. The answer, of course, is the Rebbe was trying to help him. And he knew as long as he's talking about his friend, he'll never be able to really fix his future. Until I can't face my own demons, my own skeletons, my own ghosts, my own traumas, my own insecurities, my own uh incompetence, and my own fears that allowed me to miss the target. As long as I can't face it and really talk about it, ultimately I can get all the advice in the world. I can get from my friends, but I will not become the person I need to become. So, it's really the very vulnerability that allows us to open up. And when we open up, when we open our hearts, the light could come in. I think uh it was one of the great Jewish singers whose name was Rebbe Eliezer. He's also known as Leonard. And he once said, "When I was young, I worshipped perfection." He says, "Now I am older and I only look for things that have cracks because it's the cracks that allow the light to come in." Don't be afraid of your cracks. Okay, somebody just texted this question. It's a great question over here. What do I do What should I do if my former wife is not interested in caring for our children? She has mental issues and other issues. Our children are more and more deregulated when they come home. It creates havoc between my new wife and myself and my stepchildren as she feels that they are a bad influence on our children and I don't know what to do. I'm torn between my kids, my new wife, and my stepchildren. Dr. Bulka, what's Um It It's such a It's such a complicated question. I I almost feel I don't want to It It's in in a short format, I I don't I I I I think it needs uh a more serious um a more I I'm I'm I'm hesitant I'm hesitant to weigh in on this one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. They should see They should see a therapist weekly. No, I'm not from They should stay home and eat ice cream. Twice a week. Rabbi, what do you want to add to this? Klein's ice cream. I said Klein's ice cream, not ice cream. Rabbi, what do you want to add Do you want to drop on this one? I can go to another one. It's a little similar, though. I'll I'll So, ask the second one and I'll I'll respond to that. Yeah, let's hear the second one. How do we deal with your children treating your spouse like she's not wanted or being disrespectful or simply mean? It means your children are treating the new wife or the new husband disrespectfully. And then there's the other way around. How do you deal with when your spouse when you feel she's being or he's being mean to your children, especially when there's two sets of kids that are fighting, each parent naturally goes to protect the biological child? Yeah, so if I could just again just briefly weigh in on that one, is um is the key is to strike when the iron is cold. It's very painful when those kind of things happen. It's very tempting to immediately want to go to the um you know, to the defense of your biological child. It's totally understandable. But um again, bite your tongue and you you figure out a time to talk about it, maybe a day or two later. And then you set up a time to talk about it in a non-attacking way. There are all kinds of techniques. There's something called the speaker-listener technique where people take turns reflecting back to the other, you know, paraphrase what the other is saying. There are all kinds of ways of trying to get at it. But the key is that um I can't imagine um a way that would be helpful of dealing with it right away. And you may say, "But But what about your poor child? Your child expects you to immediately, you know, to come to their to their defense." So, you could talk to that child quietly also, a day or two later or even later that day, and say, "Look, I feel terrible about this. I couldn't come to your uh defense right then." And you validate their being able to express their anger at the this kind of treatment. Beautiful. I would just add to all of this a general statement and then a few details. Number one, blended families are very, very complex. It can work, but it can be a disaster. And therefore, you really have to have ongoing guidance. I've heard from many people who went into second marriages that they did not have the guidance. And I mean I don't mean guidance from people who have opinions in shul or in the mikvah or in the supermarket. I'm talking about top experts, professionals who excel in this area or other including other people who have done it successfully. You know, they have They have merged families. They have blended families together, parents who did it well. You need to get guidance because without serious guidance, step by step, God forbid, there could be many, many very serious mistakes. I have a student who got divorced. He went into a second marriage and he told me and he has a beautiful second marriage. He said, "The first year of my second marriage, I spent $55,000 on therapy and professional help." And he's not a rich man. And he said, "I do not regret a penny because it saved our entire future." So, it's important to emphasize this. I think there's another very important point to emphasize. And this is both questions. You have needs. You have your children, your real children, your biological children. Your Your other Your partner, your your your new husband or your new wife also has needs. They have their children that they brought in from a previous marriage. You're now living together. Sometimes, these needs are perceived as conflicting with each other. For example, the first question. Your biological children are coming home from your ex. There's a very difficult situation over there. And your wife or your husband, your second wife will say, "What do I have to deal with this? I have my own kids. I have to take care of them. I have to protect them. I have to protect them from your children who are not even my children." And then you hear this from her or from him. And you just stabbed It's a dagger in your chest. What I mean, I married you. These are my kinderlach. This is very This is very, very serious stuff. These are things that affect us in a very core level. And what It's so important. It's so important that this couple, the second marriage, has as Dr. Bulka would say, has the space and the time where they can have an honest, kind, but very real conversation about what this is doing for each of them. What this is doing to me when I hear this attitude from you. What it's doing to you when you see this coming from my children. And to really be able to realize that we're in this together. It can't be any more only about me versus you, you versus me because we're a couple. So, yes, these are my biological children. They're not yours. But if we want to stay married and we want to have a good marriage, we have to develop a place of we. Ultimately, it's our challenge. It's our problem. It's our responsibility. It's our blessing. It's our opportunity. Yes, you can't expect me to feel about your children the way you feel like your children. I'm not a malach. I understand that. But we could expect from each other to be fair, to be compassionate, to be menschlich, to be decent. And if I want to have a good marriage with you, and all I can tell you is that your children are destroying my life. What do I expect from this marriage? So, sometimes we get angry, we lose it, but we have to be able to find those spaces. I would say once a week, twice a week, three times a week, four times a week where we take a walk or we sit in the therapist's office or we sit in another confidant's office or we carve out that space where we can work out, first of all, a plan for the future, where we can express our emotions, where we can cry, where we could be honest with each other, and where we could develop a trust. We must have a trust. If it becomes you against me and me against you, we will suffer, our marriage will suffer, and both sets of children will suffer. If I may add one last important point, and I think this is extremely important. I've actually heard this from a person who went through a second marriage and told me that they made some serious mistakes in this area. And that is we sometimes come into a second marriage and I expect that my wife's children or my husband's children will right away start calling me Tati, Mommy. Listen, I'm supporting them, I'm taking care of them, I'm doing homework with them, I'm taking them to taking them to shul, I'm taking them for pizza, taking them for ice cream, I'm paying tuition, I'm paying camp, I'm paying room and board. I'm Tati. I am your Tati. That other Tati? He's a sugar nut. My wife ran away from him. That's not your real fake Tati. I'm the real Tati. I'm the real Mommy. I am sacrificing my whole life for you, right? And and this is an expectation because I'm doing everything a Tati and Mommy have and you have to say something and this is very sensitive. The ultimate decision of how these children are going to relate to you is theirs, not yours. And at the end of the day, they may choose to call you father, they may choose to call you mother, they may also choose otherwise. And I want to tell you something that happened. I want to tell you something that happened. And it's a it's a it's a difficult story to share but this is a maiseh shaya. There was a family and there was a divorce and the mother remarried and the new father raised a young girl. She was 4 years old after the divorce and he raised her amazingly and they had this best relationship in the world, best relationship in the world. At 24 years old his stepdaughter gets married. So he has raised her at this point for 20 years, gave her everything and they were so tight. It was like a classic Tati daughter relationship. It's just he was not the biological father. He was the stepfather, second marriage. Okay? Listen what happens. It comes the night before the wedding. He thinks who's going to take her down the aisle to the chuppah? He, right? He's the Tati. She tells him the night before the wedding she didn't her father her father was gone already. She said she wants her brother, her older brother to take her down the chuppah cuz he's her biological brother and you, I love you, but you're not my father. He was destroyed. 20 years, 20 years, you're not my father. I love you. I owe you my life. I cherish you, but you're not my father. You know what happened? Till today they don't speak to each other. He stopped speaking to her. You know why? For 20 years there was miscommunication. He was under the assumption, I'm doing everything, you're going to call me my your father. There was miscommunication. She's not ready for that. Can a parent come into the relationship and say, "Listen, this stepchild may look at me and say, 'You're not my father. You're not my mother.' And that may hurt. But I'm going to say, you know what? Okay. But I still want to be here for you in any way that you need and you have the right to define the relationship, but I'm going to be here for you in the way that you need. Be real and this is tough. I have to go out of my ego and ask not what these children can do for me, but ask what I can do for these children. Okay, we have so many more live questions. Take a few more and then we'll go to the closing because this is I have I would have to be all night. Okay, remember again we'll talk about anything about life after the divorce, so feel free to ask. Okay, you're on. Hi. Hi, me? You. Okay. Um Rabbi YY was saying earlier that you should tell your children and put in as much love to your children that you can, even if they are alienated from you by your ex. So I want to know how I can do that if my children don't talk to me, blocked me, I can't text them, I can't call them. Um how am I supposed to give them anything? How old are they? How old are they? 22, 20, and 18. Dr. Pelcovitz. Yeah, I I I'll just tell you that it's a very unfortunately a very common kind of problem. Um do what you can. How? Uh do do what you can um even if they if they don't if they blocked you. So, you know, there's a way for you to leave a voicemail that they may not ever return or may not never ever get. If it means to send a a letter to them that they'll they'll leave unopened. What I've seen countless times is that when they move on to, you know, this stage of life very well from where they have their own children and they start to think for themselves in a little bit of a different way, they'll often say that they appreciated um the attempts at contact in spite of the fact that they totally closed you off and as irrational as it is that they that they appreciate it but they do appreciate it. And in the long run it it means something to them. There's no guarantees. There's absolutely no guarantees, but if you don't do it, I could almost guarantee you that there's going to be resentment as unfair as it is. So you just do what you find a way to do it. Um I I could think of so many situations where it ultimately may made a huge difference. Even if it's um you know, you know, again I I don't want to take time to talk about some of the work of Dr. Amy Baker who looked at alienated children when they were grown up and married and what predicted which which alienated children come back, but there's a much greater chance that eventually there could be relating to them in a new key in a new kind of way if you just stay there in any way that you can as frustrating as it might be. Just want to add on to what Dr. Pelcovitz said. There's every case scenario, every parent whether a child is graduating or you could send them a gift or you could there's always a way to get a message through just to keep the constant consistency that you're there for them as much as they block. And that's Rabbi I want to take away what you said in the other shiur. Create the email account. Yeah, I don't know if she was there, but I gave a piece of advice. This was a father who was alienated. His wife I think suffered from a serious mental illness. It was in court. He decided he doesn't want to continue in court cuz they were schlepping the kids to court. Big family, seven kids. Little kids, bunch of little kids. The oldest was maybe about mitzvah bar mitzvah and she wouldn't let them speak to him at all. You know what he did? Amazing. He created an email account for each of the children with a password and almost every single day he sent an email to one child, another child, another child. He went to the ice cream store, he took a selfie him holding an ice cream. Chayala, I wish you were here with me to join to enjoy the ice cream. He went to the zoo, took a picture with the elephant. I wish you were here with to join the elephant and he sent it into their email box. When they became teenagers, 15, 16, 17, 18, they reached out to him. Their first question is, "Tati, why did you ignore us for 10 years?" Why? And he said, "My dear son, my dear daughter, here is the password." And they went into their email account and they saw 10 years of hundreds and hundreds of emails. "I love you. I'm thinking about you. Happy birthday. I wish I was with your graduation." And they realized he can't be making this up. You can't make up, you know, 15, 10 years of emails. I mean, the story makes me cry cuz it's so sad that it came to that. And you know, when I said it the first time there was a lawyer here who said, "Do not allow that to happen, you know, get a lawyer and get your rights and don't allow yourself to be alienated." And and I totally understand that and empathize with that. I'm not here to tell you that you should never don't speak to your child for 10 years and just write emails. Of course, we want to be able to do whatever we can to have contact in a in a civil way without going into a vicious bloody war that's going to harm the children. But it took so much vision and perspective and you know what happened? They all moved out of her house and they all moved into his house. He's now with all of the children. A few years later they suddenly realized they had a father for 10 years. But do you know what it took for him from him not to take it personal? This can't be ego I if I have insecurity or ego here, it's impossible. You really can't take this personal. I have to say, you know, sometimes people are broken. They're broken. It's not about disrespect. It's about brokenness and I just want to be here for you. The moment it becomes, "You you you can't disrespect me. Stop disrespecting me." And this is not talking about divorce, it's true with your teenage children, YOU KNOW. "STOP DISRESPECTING ME. YOU'RE GOING TO DISRESPECT ME." You lost the plot. You lost the plot. It's not about disrespect. Sometimes people are in a lot of pain and this is the best they can do. Create space for them. Let's go to the next live question. Okay, maybe we'll do one more and then we'll go to closing. You're on. Um yes, hi. So I'm curious to know if there are any practical advice for find how to combine finances, especially when, you know, both the woman and the man are having finances, children are older, we're not talking about, you know, tuition here or or, you know, heavy support, children are independent. So I'm just curious to know if there any any advice about financial how to combine or how to deal with finances? Dr. Pelkowitz, don't you have an accounting degree? I wish I did. All I can say about money and it's it's so so so incredibly complicated. Um money is often so much more complicated than than practical advice. You know, in the research on the role of money and um in in couples who are marrying the second time, you know, what's found is is that people tend to fight the same fight over and over again around money throughout their lives. And um it's among the most intractable issues because it gets to our core sense of self. And it's often a standing for power and insecurity and things like that. It's just very very difficult. You know, um so it's it's it's a compli- complicated question. It can be very helpful to talk to, you know, somebody with expertise in this area. But um we once had a Yom Iyun in in the Five Towns just about the role of money in divorce. And it had a huge audience and it was incredibly interesting and helpful. But um uh the um Yeah, I am the world's leading expert on knowing nothing about money. Rabbi YY, want to touch on this one? You want to go to the next Next. Okay. Let's let's let's end it with this one because there's so many more. But Dr. Pelkowitz, is that okay? Yeah, sure. Sure. Okay. I feel like I I feel like I need to be dating. The Torah says it's not good for a man to be alone. I I And I feel it. I miss having a partner and I want to share my life with someone again. I feel like I am super ready and the shidduch suggestions like I'm getting are all great. But the problem is my kids don't want me to be dating. What do I do? How do I go about it? Uh and I'm assuming that this is um this was somebody who who was whose marriage ended quite some time ago. Well, he was married, got divorced, whether it's a woman or whether it's a man, and the children are comfortable, everything is settled, but the children don't want a new person coming in and, you know, messing up everything. It's understandable, yeah. Yeah. And again, a very common very common and poignant question. And there are a lot I want to mention one other thing. There are a lot of people, especially women, that they say, "Until my kids are older, I don't I don't want to, you know, they they martyr for the children." Yeah. Look, I'll I'll tell you this is more opinion than fact, but um from from an opinion standpoint, I think that um our children have a right to be upset about us. Um uh you know, beginning to date and things like that. But ultimately, there's certain decisions that are purely a decision of you as as as an adult. And uh they're they have every right to be upset and to fight it, but you have to make that decision as as um base based on where you are in your life. And eventually, the hope is they'll come around. Um and it's never easy and it is painful for children. But that I think is that that I think from a boundary standpoint is is a ben adam l'atzmo question. You know, what's your where are you in your relationship with yourself? And your kids will you know, you could validate and you could help them understand how difficult it is, but I find my experience usually um if it's handled well and there's a therapist to help um as you know, Rabbi YY's been talking about with the um you know, with with the tremendous complexity of blended families, um um I think I think what has to inform you is what you want for yourself. Yeah. Rabbi YY, want to add on this one? No, no. Thank you. Okay, so let's go to closing now and I just want to first of all start off with saying a great yasher koach to Rabbi YY, especially for really encouraged to do this series. This was a three-part series. It was tremendous. So the feedback we got was unbelievable. Anybody who didn't watch the other parts definitely have to watch the other parts. Go to Rabbi YY's YouTube channel. It's all there. Just type in Life After Divorce. There's part one, part two, and tonight is part three. Um the emails and the and the and the feedback I got was tremendous. I feel like we uh we we did a little chizuk for for a big topic. We definitely covered it. And a special thank you to Dr. Pelkowitz for uh being coming on so willingly. Um let's go to closing. Menachem will go first, then Dr. Pelkowitz, then Rabbi YY. Coach Menachem. Thank you very much. Thank you, Rabbi Jacobson. And thank you, Dr. Pelkowitz. Um nothing more to add. Again, like I mentioned, it's a huge topic and everybody in their unique situation. But just by coming here on a Thursday night, hopefully in a relaxed state, to hear some insights that maybe eventually you can apply. Which and a number one, you know, not to be hard on yourself. It it it it is hard. And especially going into uh going out into the you know, um the discomforts, going out of your zone after being hurt can be very hard. So like we heard, it's a process. There's no jumping. But that's part of growth when the person is ready. Because staying where you are is always easier for everybody. But the growth comes from going out and trying new things, which being vulnerable. And that's where the that's where you feel some chizuk, hopefully works out. And the third thing that I'm thinking of is just to be able to get a third party, somebody who hold your hand, who you can talk to, who could understand, so that you could work it through and see if you're seeing it the right way. And thank you again for being here. And baruch Hashem, we managed to put together this series. And hopefully and sure from the emails that we've helped many many many. And for those who still want to send in the questions, you can still send it in. Thank you. Thank you. Rabbi Coach Menachem. Dr. Pelkowitz, please leave the audience with some divrei chizuk. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much to all of you. Um uh for letting me be part of this. I'll just end with um with a a couple of thoughts. Number one is um I I often quote a study, probably to the point of nausea of over-quoting it, but um it's a study study where some researchers take people and put them at the bottom of a small mountain. And they ask them, "Estimate the steepness of this mountain." If you're alone, you see the mountain as being very steep. If you have somebody at your side, the mountain looks less steep. And the closer you feel to the person at your side, the less steep the mountain looks and the less tired you get walking up the mountain. That's the metaphor I have in my mind um as we talked about what this three-part series has been about. It's about being together. You know, we just read in last week's Torah reading, "Lo tov olot Yaakov." Mishkan Sefirah Yisrael about the power of togetherness, the power of being at each other's side. Um especially in difficult times. Because it it it it makes every hill and every challenge look less steep. And I'll just end with the famous words of the Medrash Tehillim that echoes, I think, a common theme throughout tonight of ilu nafal ti v'kamti. If I never fell down, I never would have been able to appreciate getting up. Ilu yasavti bachoshech, lo haya orli. If I never sat in the darkness, I never would have appreciated the light. I think that's what this has been all about. So again, thank you for allowing me to be part of such an important important force for a force you know, for for for for a force um hanefesh and in some cases a force a good for for everybody here. Thank you. Rabbi Dr. Pelkowitz, thank you so much. Rabbi YY. Yeah. So in preparation for this event, I phoned or rather WhatsApped three individuals whom I cherish, whom I know well, all who had their first their first marriages were terminated and they remarried and they blended families. They had children from previous marriages which they brought in. And I I just wanted to hear, you know, it's nice to have theories and ideas, but you know, to hear from real people, boots on the ground who are dealing with this every hour of the day. And I want to share four very briefly, four points that they shared with me. Number one, it is so important after a divorce, after a death, especially if there's a second marriage, but even before that, to be able to respect your needs and to cultivate a path towards self-care. Especially when it was a difficult divorce, especially when there's an ex that's difficult, especially when there's alienation, you have to take care of yourself. You need to eat well and you need to sleep well and you need to have a hobby and you have to be able to celebrate your life and to have fun. And if you like hiking, go hiking. And if you like dancing, go dancing. And if you need yoga or Pilates or gym or exercise or martial arts or other forms of uh of adventure of development meditation prayer learning each one in their own way holding journals but take care of yourself. You have to you need to take care of your body and your mind and your soul and don't feel guilty for that. Especially your children who need a good strong mother a strong father. Cherish yourself. Don't beat yourself up. People sometimes in second marriages they beat themselves up for every mistake. Celebrate every success. Even small successes are amazing are astounding. Remember these kids went through a difficult situation. Every small success celebrate. Give yourself a standing ovation. Don't expect perfection and beating yourself up and telling yourself what a bad stupid idiot you are will help nobody. Will not help you not your spouse and not your children not your stepchildren. Number one piece of advice number two. This somebody told me about a personal mistake they made. And that is people sometimes unwillingly they alienate their biological children from the other parent. If the other parent died or the other parent there was a divorce. There's no talking about the other parent in our home. It's a mistake. It should be a normal conversation. There's no competition between the new mother and the old mother between the new father and old father. There is a competition. But we have to be able to address it in a normal way an ordinary way so that the kid doesn't have to work through this pain on their own. What would be wrong if the new mother can turn to the child and have a open conversation about the other mother about the other father in a civil way in a normal way. Sometimes you need guidance. The bar mitzvah day of your stepson to be able to say you know tonight at your bar mitzvah there's going to be like two fathers. Your biological father and me. That's going to be difficult. And you can both cry. And you can let the child cry and you can work it through so they don't have to do this on their own. Maybe on the yard site of their mother or their father there could be a conversation in the family what type of person she was. Maybe you can hang up a big picture in the dining room but each child near their bed can have a picture of their mother or their father who's not here anymore. Don't feel the need to cut them off from their parents which may some may be something you're going to regret for many many years. Number three a mother told this to me. I asked her did you treat your stepkids just like you treated your biological children? Did you feel the same way about them? And she says Rabbi YY no. I can't feel about my stepchildren what I feel about my biological children. I never did. I never did. These are my husband's children they're not mine. But I always ask myself am I being fair? Am I being kind? Am I being compassionate? If this is what I'm giving to my child this is what I have to give to the other child. Don't expect from yourself angelic perfection impeccable flawless divine perfection. Of course there's a difference. But the very fact that you could be here for your stepchild and be kind and be compassionate and be loving and give them their needs that's an incredible incredible feat. Don't undermine that and don't feel like I'm such a hypocrite I'm such a sick person. Look I make these differentiations. Respect the fact that there are differences. This is a struggle but you're working on yourself and you're being fair to these children. And the last piece of advice a father gave me he said you make sure to spend time with your biological children and give them all the love. You cannot turn them into instruments of your spouse's needs. They have their own pain and their own journey. Yes you want to be sensitive to your spouse and your spouse will tell you you have to discipline those kids cuz they're not my kids and you got to discipline those kids and they can't speak to me this way. And yes you have to be there for your spouse. But you can't turn your children into the instruments of fulfilling all of your spouse's needs. They they've been through a lot. You got to be there with them. You have to be there for them. You have to talk them. You have to understand them and your spouse has to understand you just like you have to understand your spouse. My last 30 seconds I want to quote Rabbi Chaim Palagi. Rabbi Chaim Palagi was one of the great rabbis of Turkey. He passed away in 1868. He wrote 80 s'farim 80 books Rabbi Chaim Palagi. He asks a question. How was Hashem allowed to send Nebuchadnezzar and Rome to destroy the Beis Hamikdash when there's a mitzvah in the Torah that you're not allowed to break and demolish even one brick of the Beis Hamikdash. It's a prohibition. And we know the Medrash says Hashem follows all the mitzvahs that he gave us. He also follows the Gemara says he puts on tefillin. So how was Hashem allowed to send? He said I sent Nebuchadnezzar to destroy the Beis Hamikdash during these three weeks. How could he do it? IT'S A PROHIBITION. LO SASON kein Hashem Elokecha. Chaim Palagi's question. And one of the answers that's given I heard this answer from my rebbe very profound answer. You're not allowed to demolish a shul but there's one condition. If you're going to rebuild a shul in this place you're allowed to demolish the shul. You know why? So the Mordechai says in Maseches Megillah hahi netzitzah binyan mikreh. When you're demolishing a shul because you're trying to rebuild it in this place it's not demolishing the shul it's renovating the shul. When you have to renovate a shul you have to break down the walls to expand the structure. That's not called destroying it's called renovating. The purpose of the destruction of the Beis Hamikdash was not destruction. It was the beginning of the renovation of the third Beis Hamikdash. When one window closes a new window opens. When one structure crumbles it's in order to create space for a much greater and deeper and more transcendent structure. So when Hashem destroys the Beis Hamikdash it's the beginning of the renovation of the Bayis Hashlishi. That's why the Bad Devar says that Shabbos Chazon doesn't just mean the vision of Churban it also means the vision of a new Beis Hamikdash. Each of our lives we build a Beis Hamikdash. And that Beis Hamikdash sometimes gets destroyed. Gets destroyed. It's not about blame. It's a Churban. The Gemara says in Kesubos when you get divorced the Mizbei'ach cries. Why? There's a Churban Beis Hamikdash. A Jewish home is a Beis Hamikdash. Va'asu li mikdash veshachanti besocham. And when the marriage comes to an end it's the end of a Beis Hamikdash but we could look at it in two ways. We could look at it as the end which is normal and we cry and we sob and we grieve and sometimes you're very happy because it was a crazy difficult marriage and you're happy to get out of it. Okay. But we also have to realize it's a new beginning. When an old structure when an old reality breaks down it's not here to break us and destroy us even if we don't understand. And even if it's unfathomably difficult and even if it's very challenging ultimately have to be able to look in the mirror and say this structure that has crumbled in my life is the beginning of a renovation. I'm going to open myself up to a new awareness. I'm going to open myself up to new opportunities. I'm going to open myself up to unprecedented growth. And for this you must have a very deep personal relationship with your soul and with God. More important maybe than anything else your anchor has to you have to be anchored in something indestructible in something powerful. So as you go through this turbulence it shouldn't overwhelm you rather you should be able to take a deep breath go into a calm and serene space space in the vortex in the center the eye of the storm and to be able to say okay. I have become vulnerable. I have been broken. And now I want to become allow this to become the springboard the catalyst for a renovation of a new edifice of a new home. And as the Zohar says the third Beis Hamikdash will be eternal cuz it's not a human creation which is mortal but it's a divine creation. Thank you very much. Thank you Rabbi YY. Thank you Dr. David Pelkowitz. Thank you. This class is brought to you by the Yeshiva.net. Please help us continue the classes. Make even a small contribution at www.theyeshiva.net/donate.