Rosh Hashanah: The Brilliant Halachic Ruling of Rav Aveili Fastvaller

this Torah class is brought to you by Torah anytime.com okay welcome everyone this is our last year together we thank for giving us to come together in this year should give us all good health and should come together for many years here to learn together okay yeah okay so we're going to discuss a issue which is relevant to rash and from this issue will emerge a very important regarding the process of the there's a one of the great interestingly was actually a balab he was a working person in fact in his introduction he bemon the fact that in his day balab don't learn the the amount of hours that they used to unfortunately he says in his time Bal we're only learning three hours a day that's what writes not so long ago anyway says that in the third is called which is the and it also concludes that's the third on a random Tuesday instead of saying keep on going during the 10 days of repentance beginning with you conclude if you made a mistake and you concluded if you remembered within the time frame of the amount of time it takes to say shom and you said in other words if you said you're okay I once had a story We by I was still I don't want to be and said and it's and he kept them going nobody and nobody and I'm thinking to myself wait a second now what do I do I had to walk out of my walk over now walk out of my talk in middle of and tell the to start all over again yeah I had no choice I had no choice that's what you have to do right that's how you know what am I going to do let him go and finish the whole and then we finish hour you know but uh that's not a good thing by the way um anyway now if you didn't remember on time have to go back to the beginning of theing if you're not sure if you said it or not you have to go back to the beginning of now we have an we always know that way out of if you're mic whether you said the right thing or not is what you could say 90 times or 101 times you know right you say or you could say so here also why can't you say 90 times this way if you're not sure what planet you're on you at least you'll know that you said you can't say that cuz you have to say hashem's name you have to say you can't say's name then that only creates that you're that when you sayem you said when you say then you don't have that fine we all know this by every single year you come back TOA they teach you not that anybody now nobody knows anything the because everybody's an expert in the but now introduces a fantabulous you ready for this a the great go RAB faler now who is RAB faler R A lived from T to of 18 uh 1762 to 1836 already at the age of 40 he was recognized as the godar he took over as the AZ of Vila four years after the P of the gr okay he was the of the he lived in the time of and his child quote him he was a great unov and in in the the says that he heard from his father-in-law Razer Gordon a story about r f f has a fantabulous that even though we know that if you say you have to go back and repeat that's only if you forget it oner or the ninth day of the or the fifth day of the cha oralia or the second day of Rashana or the first of but the first night of you don't have to go back that if you forget the first night you don't have to go back just like you're ready for the following analogy just like if you make a mistake and you don't say you don't have to go back you know why cuz it's not technically in certain ways was not the would likewise be so that if you if you say the first night of that you don't have to go back says this is the of seemingly concurs with this that if you forget the first night of you do not go back and yes say that again wow wow because this is a incredible because you know who has who said this before F living in the 18th and 19th century nobody not the gar not the sh not the ram not the tour not any of not the not the none of the not until the year 1800 or so comes fast and he innovates this Sno that if you blow it and you forget the first night I mean by the way the the year hasn't even begun and this guy already you know doesn't know where he is you know he already blew it the first but we're going to talk about what kind of uh mistake this is going to be but a little bit yeah yeah exactly yes yeah second also well we're going to see we're going to see yeah absolutely that's you know that that's part of my COV here is bringing out how how surprising this Pak is given the fact that you would have thought people before him would have thought about the potential for somebody to forget to forget the first night as the PO discussed somebody who on night and nobody discusses it and comes and he says if you forget you don't have to go back now take major issue with the of the first question comes from the and he he quotes in the in the back of discusses the following issue what would the be if the first night of [Laughter] R he says the and then the guy [Laughter] continues the guy is going on the whole the whole yeah the guy rash he's daving a we no he's still the guy ding langu nobody really knows why this guy's ding what's he saying so long right now you know he's saying the we right does he repeat the does he not repeat the No No weekday full-fledged weekday he has a but he's ding from the mar at the end of r that's where he's holding he but he leaves out yeah anyway says okay because this is somewhat similar the guy that we've been discussing until now he's saying he just said this guy is saying a full-fledged week says look at number three there are those who explain that what would p you said A week you got to say over if you can't say a Tuesday what now shabas might be different because thei says technically you should have in a week just because of we don't do that but we don't but we don't say that about Y no I don't think so so look at says only on other if you forget you repeat what's dependent on but it's not yet because the is not until the morning we consider so that's the brings down that legitimate hold that if you in a we even though if you we you have to repeat but is and just like if you forget you don't repeat if you say a weak you don't repeat that says I don't agree with that I don't subscribe to that but you can make the following case is dependent on is not just dependent on is so even if it's not technically but it's you could say even though it's dependent on since it's the festival you know how we know now is it of course it's of course not so who does publicly is is a Russ is anaran so I have a questioning do you mention the fact that it's not really right you don't even Ben you don't even mention that you don't say you don't say you don't mention a word about so in theing it's a relevant that's so therefore therefore says it is more to compare the of the night of not toes but rather to and just like if you don't say you have to repeat over the so to the night of if you don't say you got to repeat over the if you don't mention that you got to go back so how do we if somebody says a week what's you go back say Hees says that says that if you don't say you don't have to go back ask the it's against that we don't compare the that if you say you have to go back because it's so by the same token say how could that if you don't say you don't have to go back just like says you go back if you say a weak likewise would say that if you don't say you will have to go back look at number two F Valor and he says on the third line it's a wonder to me it seems like forgot the words of brought in the now if we would p in like the in the beginning of that if you say a week day you don't have to go back you could make the case for that if you forget you don't have to go back but we don't passing like the we pasing like what we pasing like that if you say you go back so by the same token if you forget we assume it's we assume it's you should have to go back look in on the number two two lines from the bottom we see explicitly from not like that if you don't mention in the the you have to go back investigate the reason what's the reason why if you say a week you have to go back rash because it's rash and it's not well if by the same token if it's you have to say that's question number one other it's different because if you say you're doing all of the BR that don't apply but even if you say still in the you're also saying that so you're you're maybe true so you're saying it's not as bad you're saying I'm in the in the in the BR okay good on the other hand but we know that in the morning even though you said 50 other times in the but if you don't say it at that critical juncture at the you have to go back so then why would the night be any different in other words we ready know that the mentions of throughout are not sufficient to cover you for the the Omission during the whatever his name feels that that's that's not correct but but he's not arguing the point he would never say that if you that that if you omit it by Shak you it's okay he he agrees that the mentions of H during the rest of don't help in the morning so why would it help at night either it helps or it doesn't help remember and you forget and you start to say and you you yourself and you realize what am I doing and then why don't you just stop after that what you just finished or whatever it is and start did you say or you say so then you have to go back to the beginning of because those are together but the point that the is Raising is the same way a we you got to go back like you should have to go back because during you got to say but there's another question here and that's the question of the B and says the is well we like that if you would say a week day you would have to go back likewise if you You' have to go back even if you want to say not like and you want to say that if you say a week day you don't have to go back listen to this question say even let's say is wrong and if a guy he says a weak even if you want to say you don't go back if you Sayes you would have to go back you know why Hesh is worse it's better to d a fully weak you know what you call he says I could hear that if a guy di a weak the night of R you don't go back you know why because it's not yet so it's not he's doming we but this guy's D so he's saying it is and then he's saying what planet are you on a guy who a good he's with the program right he knows it's R he's a guy who a we he's not quite with the program but at least he has an excuse he could argue that it's like wasn't the new month yet so I'm still holding in the weekday the guy who says he's on planet Mars the guy needs serious counseling where is he he's rash what is he using which m is he using he's not using rash he would have he's not using a we week why he D in the whole says even according to the that argue on they would they would argue on meaning can't hide behind the the that say if you say a weak you're going to be so likewise if you forget it's better to say an entirely weak than to say that's the look at number four he quotes who brings this from Fast Valor and he says you should know on the fourth line that the fast Val would only make sense if you di in a completely weak cuz then if you said you should have said we yeah scar have anything to do with it because we're talking about it as if one case is one way one case another way but the fact is if you woke this guy up we and say Hey you know he doesn't really think it's we day he's in Dreamland he's just he's for whatever reason he has in his head saying usually says if you were to really ask him if you to wake him up is is it we or is it mean he says I know it's rash and I'm just talking to myself I'm an automatic so the answer is we say um we don't really care what people are thinking in it's usually irrelevant what somebody's thinking it go it goes by what you say you know here's a guy he mentioned in the summer why autopilot in his heart of hearts he's thinking about the fact that it would be bad if it rained in his heart of hearts he's offering a silent prayer Hashem don't make it rain but he said what's he has to go back you know why he has to go back the tazes cuz since he said we're afraid God's going to make it rain but one second he spat out the words Make It Rain and his heart of heart he's having deep kavana that it shouldn't rain we don't care what's in your heart of hearts we only care about what you say in I'm a good at heart we care about what you do yeah didn't then's not not he didn't say the comes the and the Mish chimes in on the of F this is uh the M we know the the on the Bott of the are He Who quotes that if you didn't say you don't have to go back says he's wrong it's wrong number five second it's not right would makes sense if a guy the we you're not if you want to say it's you're not you didn't say if you want to say it's week day you're not because you said and what r f means you know what r f must mean that the guy said and he waited a few seconds so he can't it's not it's irreversible now so saying now that you said you don't have to go back you know what you could do that's what would do no would never say with what he means is if you forgot but you didn't continue yet but you waited the amount of time that you can't go back and correct then go and say a week but the says really that's what meant even the that say that if you di the we it's good that's only post facto if you did it but they would never say go ahead now that you're standing your and you messed yourself up because he said and therefore says the is incorrect and bottom line is if you forget what do you do you go back and you yeah and look in says like the says that if you didn't um conclude on you go back and most do not agree to the of and the doesn't agree and the M doesn't agree and therefore in the is one of the Lakewood he writes bottom line is if you blow it that's pretty good you're ready in the beginning of the year and within moments of the beginning of the year you already made your first mistake you must go back and repeat not like because as the asks it's against as asks it's as says and therefore it would seem to be a case Clos issue if a guy did not say he has to go back and it seems like we've made F seem uh very difficult to understand a very was and he so let's try to understand where he's coming from and maybe if we do so we'll see that it's not so P comes the and the ques Who quotes and he quotes the question of the that is against if you say a week you have to go back cuz it's Rashana by the same token if you forget if if you forget you should have to go back comes the who's the in the back of all the you have you have by the way you know he was the descendant of the B I think he help published the newer volumes of the and he says everybody missed the boat nobody really understands what ra means I'm going to tell you what he means and once I explain what he meant we pin like him ra is a th% right and he's not arguing on you say a week you have to repeat so that means it's rashash so if it means it's rashash doesn't that mean you have to say h the same way you have to say h during the day of rash also it's a if it's a weekday then you should say the week and if it's you have to say says everyone's making a big mistake nobody understands F he doesn't mean to compare it toes clearly clearly it's not like cuz you don't mention a word about in the daving of mar rash says take a look at number eight the third paragraph the bottom left hand side on page one the words are are correct are ratified are illuminative like the sun in the afternoon and that is we made a big mistake over here does anybody know why we say in the daving of R do we say because it's yam doeses have anything to do with yam absolutely nothing I have a question you know what the proof is if you forget you say you don't say over of course you say it on on the fifth day of you forget you say over yeah but it's not answer to do with who says has anything with what does have to do with it has to do with the fact that the is God is sitting on his throne of judgment question in terms of timing when does God make the change from getting and sitting on the when does he get up from his regular throne and sit and adjudicate the cases of of mankind the answer is it's AAR rash the rash says why does it say the says that the bz Shala does not adjudicate until the bz shata begin sanctifies the new moon so says is not saying that since they didn't sanctify yet you don't have to say noem has nothing to do with per but does have to do with when the sh convenes and when does thez Shala convene when thez sh sanctifies the new moon and when does the bz shata sanctify the new moon in the day so at the night time and if you say a we you're not but there's one little detail that you don't have to start yet and that is H you know why you don't have to say h cuz God's not on the throne of judgment yet so why say it all together because when the way we formulate the daving it's rashash and rash is the day of judgment now if you want to know exact timing you want to be pink about the timing the timing doesn't begin until the morning it's not inappropriate to say in the night but if somebody omits it they did not omit a critical ingredient because technically speaking the malus does not begin until the daytime so it's not a is not it's not weak it's perfect technically speaking the process of judgment did not begin say didn't mean what you thought he meant he didn't mean that it's not yum in the night he didn't mean to compare it to it's just a specific technical that the Mal doesn't begin until the morning let's read this inside two lines from the bottom on page eight left hand side let us introduce this answer with the reason why do we say they are days of judgment and um and Justice God is judging the world for that reason to one second it's not only is it's to all of mankind we see unless what emerges is it's a yeah it's a based on this preface and I'm saying like the b a is not dependent on is dependent on when the Begins the doesn't begin until the day we're asking if it's got say isn't dependent on no it's not m is dependent on the Judgment judgment doesn't begin technically until the day so now has the following suff what if a guy forgot to say the second night of R what could you say it can I say no you're not supposed to if you do you don't go back you don't go back but on on you must say I know know right but the first night you don't have to because the Judgment process didn't begin yet but what about the second night if you forgot how so now you could clar like this on oh on the one hand logically we should say now we've just established the principle that it's not dependent on yam it's dependent on the process and the process began the day before or do we say no look according to is it like on the second night we know if you forget y on the second night ofes you don't go back even though what do you mean it was already or that's because which is the day ofes the first day or the second day second day the second day is Al of the month the first day is ready is from the previous month but on rash which is the main day the first day or the second day the first day so if the first day is the main day that means because is always so that means you're ready on the first day and especially like you're arguing it's based on the fact that it's dependent on the DIN and the din already began and therefore says if you forget the second night it could be it could be you don't have to go back or it could be you have to go back so basically it comes out very interesting someone who forgets the first night fast follow says you don't go back most say you do go back the Mish says you do go back what if you forget it the second night says well maybe even if you forget it the second night you don't have to go back but says so what do you do somebody forgets the first night so at this point in the sh I would have to think even though has a nice that you don't go back and he is ratified he's defended bya but the Mish Mish says you got to go back Mish says a f is not correct but comes with M Feinstein in m and he wrote this Chua in 1929 in Luan Russia and he quotes the and based on who says if you in a week you go back he brings the question on then shouldn't you go back if you forget H says Raa no in my opinion r f is 1,000% correct look in if you don't mention would agree agree that you have to go back why for the same exact reason that's saying is dependent on the and the is dependent on the and thez doesn't get going till the morning like Rashi says why do we say inash says but that's only in the morning it's only the first night like we say the first night why do we by the way does anybody know why do we say the first night of it's not yet because of plug you can't differentiate between theix of the day night is only plug for you know they're not going to be able to know we're going to we don't say in the night we do say in the day same thing with really you don't need to say it at night says but we say it so it's not to differentiate this is a big it's against is not talking about this is talking about a guy who said a weak what do I have to say about it is correct it is absolutely right that if you don't say you go back but if you don't say you don't go back amazing so now you know in theiva where I come from they always follow the Mish that's you know the the the yes is named after the so the founder even learned with the they always follow the usually against but they have this rule that so you'll be now what do you do over here if somebody forget the first night of R okay so you want to be a stickler for the Mish and say the Mish says you go back but wait a second says you don't go back it's at the very least a suff f says don't go back says you don't go back says you don't go back no the M says you go back so basically the year has been about 5 minutes and the guy has already gotten himself in so far blunger in this year that he he's got into a mess I don't know what to do so the the the thing is you know what you want to do is instead of putting a tissue in your s byes you're going to want to get one of these big Tad boes to stick in your Sid somebody said well you're d don't forget the first night of R okay and if you forget it don't come asking the rabbi interrupt you know the is that if you don't know what to do you're to ask there's even a that the person who you ask is allowed to respond to you this is a tough one the Mish is going to say you go back and ra is going to say you don't go back but we're not done the first night r I don't know maybe he should he should right I mean is a that he has a we assume he said it properly oh no that's if he's mic but let's say a guy now if a guy knows he saides that's going to be odd this is not a typical case but we're not finished yet now what about Mar of the second night so so maybe the D started it's that you go back why it's not worse than but says wait a second if you're going to go back the second night you know what we're going to call that going to be a distinction it's called a zz for Yam it's a zz it's a zilz what the second night of do you go back back yeah what do you mean it's probably weekday it's probably weekday we know it's not we know it's not yeah but once you're being say if you're going to forget and you're going to go back it's a z we that if you forget it the first night you don't go back now that you're going to go back you know what you're saying it's not it's a z for not to follow that's how much we POS like that there's aad to say that if you forget the second night you also don't go back he doesn't hold like this fast yeah the second night also you go back it doesn't say that to Raa says Raa says the fact that the does not qualify that this only applies the first night ra says probably he would say even the second night if you don't say it you also don't go back but then says it's more that it's very uncommon that someone the second night of rash is going to be saying you know so there's no says even though you don't go back I would say you go back now here's the Whopper of the night of the day you have these what about if somebody DAV before you hear this not he Embraces you know fully that if you forget you don't go back what if you forget by now what if you forget and you did it before NES says Raa don't go back you don't go back you don't go back if somebody and they forgot you go back now well so this is strange what's the if somebody di a very early before n and they forget y they go back why cuz even though you're notes the new mon if and therefore you need to say in but that's which is dependent on the sh the sh could operate on but the sh will always go and therefore the bz Shala will only be madesh the new year and the new month after NES and therefore if you D before a you don't go back if you forget that's a that's amazing but then says no that you go back cuz you know why we're going to have some people who they forget right you can't you can't differentiate between what minion you at the RAB is going to get up an anoun if you in the early minion you forget then you don't go back and if you die on a late minion you do go back so a little advice for the new year is don't forget certainly not the first night of R you've just experienced another Torah class brought to you by Torah anytime.com um