Sukkos: What First? Lulav or Esrog - The Machlokes Between the Shelah and the Noda B'Yehudah

this torah class is brought to you by torahanytime.com i'm shabbas we uh are now the yomtif of sukis is upon us only a few days left um even though the omnivocals is uh eight days here nine days in hotsarats but we don't have that much time to prepare for it we don't even have as many days to prepare as there are days of yamtif but we'll try to uh kappa rhine as much as we can now um one of the primary mistletoes of circus is of course the dal and meenum tara says tomorrow and the question is what do you take first which ones you pick up first and which one do you put down first now i think if you look around most people they pick up their lula first and then they pick up the restaurant so let's see what is the correct procedure what do you put down first i think most people put down their lula first it's easier so let's see what's the correct thing to do is there a recommended way to do it or is it discretionary is it is it up to you so we begin with the islam says now in the past we've pronounced it evan eben whether this is the correct pronunciation i don't know but this is what it says the even writes the drastics small first you pick up the aesthetic in your left hand lullabies and then you pick up the lulav in your right hand that's a big kiddush first you pick up the asteroid in your left hand and then the lulav in your right hand and how about when you put it down when you place it oh you know you snore you give to someone else the opposite no you're saying you give the lula first is just like filling just like bites fill in first you put on the shell yad and then you put on the show royce and so you could say it by filling you're going up in kadusha you're the shelyad only has one oyster the shotgun the show russia's the shin and the dalit so you're going up in and when you take off your film and first you take off the show rush and then you take off the show yad so too with lulu vanessa first you take the s rug maybe and then your mala to the lula which has three medium and then when you depart you put down the lulav and then the s right it says creates other first left exactly that's why you take that uh it's another reason to take the first it works out it creates other and in fact that's what the puzzle is mock them the aesthetic just like a commercial rubik's villain like we say but are between your eyes in other words as long as you're wearing phone sha rush you styling you have to be wearing so listen very carefully the same way you're not allowed a weird full and show royce without function out on right that's why we don't take off the show yeah at first if you take up the show yad first you're having wearing the show rush without a show yat you're not gonna have a show race without a show yet as long as the show rushes on you have to have the show yet so too you can't be holding a lula without an asteroid you can't have a lulav in your hands without an esso not allowed to and therefore first you pick up the asteroid and then you take the lulav you put the lula down and then you put the s again but the problem now it um you encounter is if you want to give your lieu of an estimate to somebody else yeah because you take you have to take the s-rogue first and then you take the lulav but when you're putting it down what do you do you have to give the lula first and then the essence but what do you mean you give the lula first the other person has to take the airstroke first so now you can have a big it's like a boxing match when you have to give someone a little of an asterisk because you have to give the lula first and he has to take the s-hook first so i don't know what should you do you give the lulu and he grabs the asteroid the only thing you can do is you got to put it down on the table first you put down the shellyard excuse me the shell rush the little love then you put down the shell yeah the asteroid and he takes the swing and then he takes the show you never heard this right this is what the slot color says first you take the asteroid and then you take the love the opposite of what we do and then you take thee and you put down is somebody parking driveway right in front of the cars here i can't get out then you take then you put down the then you put down the um here thank you then you put down the blue love and then followed by the essex so he said it says the slaw alkane they're from places where the custom is to sell the place next to the shots after the shelter shakes her nose saying her that you'll shake when the when the color is shaking in other words in those communities where somebody's going to have to borrow the louis vanessa while after shell silver shakes he's going to pass it off to somebody else shelter has love is like the shell rush so then he puts down the eso which is like the show by the way it comes out interesting you know if the eso is similar to the heart you know the is opposite the lathe and the lulav uh the lula represents the spine and the hadas represent the eyes and the arabes represent the lips on the rush so maybe that's why it's connected to shall rush i always said uh and interestingly i was always bothered the person say that the hadassim should be higher than that others one of the reasons they give is because the eyes are higher than the lips right so it's always bothered well if that's the case then they should both be higher than the lulav because the lulav is the spine and the eyes and the lips are both higher than the spine so i always um i always thought to say based on another question and that is you know yeah the heart is represented the eyes represent the lips are represented and the most important part of the body is not represented the brain we hope most right we hope people have that actually like the brain yeah take a look with the little you know piece of coming up on the bumps that's what we ask for gloves and yet we say it's representing the heart so i always thought when we say that the lula represents the spine the acre part of the lulav is the top of the top of the thank you the top of the love right maybe because it's not just the spine it's the spinal column all right it's attached to the head the spinal column which is the brain the brain is higher possibly than the eyes and the and the lips okay but that being the case so we have a just um philosophically we understand then that the estrogens cannot get the shell yad which is connected the lathe and the lulav which is uh has the parts which are connected to the royce right next to rush but we just said the law of israel marlon bakodi over the estrogen well maybe that's what we look you hold the lulav in the right hand because they're more more meaning in the right hand right but everybody if you were to ask a hundred people what's the most important of the arbor meaning they're gonna tell you the price is always set on the base of the astronauts sure you're not buying a a set for a hundred dollars because you got a lulu or the that's what they are that's the ass room on the other hand this year they they say it the other way because this year uh it's after the shmita year right so the question is okay uh you know many people buy their uh estrogen for italian and sorghum yanova but but for marxist soil it's a problem it's shemitah you can't use shimita fruits so the different hetero promotes investment well you know it's their best but uh now now there's a question all right so bezel may only work if the if the package is sealed not if it's open most people want to see it so it's uh it's a question in whether you could buy your essay from america's photo where it's open but one of the one of the hetero and you'll ask you know your local orthodox rabbi whether you can rely on this one of the haters the estrogen the icarus let's open that stuff up so um but back to the ranch over here um but if you're gonna pat according to the shelf you're gonna hand off louis vanessa to someone else one of you is doing the wrong thing because the person holding it he has to put down the s-rogue first and then the lulav and the one taking it he has to take the lula first and then the essence he says one of them won't be doing the right thing if the siva passes the lula first then the macabre is taking the love first and it's not right and if he gives the s-rock first um if he gives an s of course then the shliyat sieber is not doing the right thing in other words right if the seabor hands him the lula first can't do that you should be putting down the what yes but then the macabre is taking the lula first which is not right and if he puts down the s stroke first is doing it wrong then the xiao zebra has to first put on the lula right okay so that is the quoting the amec bracha who quotes the ebin the morgan abram how does the mugging never run past him say come on you know i never i never heard of this shot that first you pick up pick up the esrog and then you pick up the lulav and first you put down the lulav and then you put down the um s-rig i never heard of that says the mugging of rum well you better have heard of it because this is how he passed him we passkin first you take the s-rug and then you take the lula masala and when you put it down yes first you put them in again by the way this would be another uh one of the reasons we don't um we don't take filling on yomtif is the mitsu is so it's similar to the shaya and the shell rice is not gonna run say you have to take the estrogen in your left hand or can you take it in your right and move it to the left well he says take it uh oh he doesn't say but presumably he's calling the mate the mafia quotes the ibn shub so and and he says uh you take the essay in your left hand you can't hand it then to your friend you need to put it down so first you put down the lulav then you put down the asteroid but the person who picks it up he has to pick up the asteroid first and then the lula how about the bear hatef the bear hated says how the bear hey dave says uh right there he quotes the maginot from the yakutim netilas first you pick up the asteroid then you pick up the lulav and when you put it down you give the lula first and then the esteroid and if you want to hand it to somebody you have to put it down and the person picks it up okay so so far the shla the magin of ram and the bear hate dave all say they're all unanimous that you must take the s rogue first comes annoyed to be huda in the hagoyis dogo mervava he said no sorry nice try he said it's a mistake he says look at number five this khan this idea that the says that the evan shub says that the enact bracha says that the mughal rum says that the vehicle is wrong okay right this idea okay um right so the first thing he's gonna there are really two independent things that um the evan shub said the first thing he says is first you pick up the s we're gonna know the love and the second thing is first you put down the lulav and then the soap what's the logic of that statement just like whenever you're wearing shall rush you must behold you must be wearing the shalyard so too whenever you have a lulav you must be holding an estrogen you cannot hold the lula without an estrogen and therefore you cannot put down the estrogen first so another view says what in the world do filling gotta do with lou vanessa what's the connection he says vadeshgar it's a mistake the question because if you look in the gemara menace let's take a look let's learn the gemara number four the gemara says then you take off the shoyan says i get it because that's what the torah says it says whenever it's between your eyes you shtayam you need to be wearing two which means a shall rush cannot be one you can never just have a show roshan you can never just have a showroosh on your head whenever there's a shiro in your head you must have a yada on and therefore the only way to remove it is remove the shell rush first no well how do i know too we'll see does that mean the person whose arm hospital is injured he can't put on his feeling he can't put on this no it doesn't mean that you have no choice that's a yakuma i'm not telling you right now what the limit is kumar says whenever you have to fill in shall royce you must that means there's a specific lee mud might fill in that whenever you have a shell royce you must be wearing who says there's any lemur by lula vanessa that whenever you have a lula you must be holding an escrow is there a sphere in the opposite direction that what that means that you should put down the s-hope first before you put down the wall i mean he says it's a mistake to say you have to do it this way just because to fill in yeah but finally have exercise now exactly what the limit is we're in the passage of is now let's assume that the dog of marvava is learning like rashi rashi says look at number seven the word implies two what's you and they should be we mean they i only have a shell roshan what hopefully your eyes are aligned and you see one pair of shoulders you're not seeing double how how many fingers do you see you should only be seeing one show right now the words should be between your eyes the words you have multiple partials in the show there's one thing it says rasheed the josh is the word from the hayu presumably the anointed is learning like rashi and in that case it says when the tar says if the only way we know it by tone is from the word vahayu and mahayu is absent by by a little of an ester then why would you think that kozman that you have cowboys tomorrow you need to have priyates hadar and therefore them came it's not maybe a mistake it's definitely a mistake i the schlock and the mech bracha and the evan and the magna brahm and the bear they all say you must take you must put down the lulla first even moisturizer can make a mistake so therefore says all of these toss okay so that's the first thing this idea that dogumer holds it's a mistake to say you put down the lulav first ella now let's now he's going to attack the second that the isla and all the above mentioned so you have to pick up the stroke first of all the fact that you have to take an aspect first there's no limit from twilight in other words we wanted to say just like finland that says just like it comes first and then right by louis vanessa it says tomorrow now he doesn't say why you don't learn it out from filling the ish bizarre it's a long issue i'm not going to get into it he says so we don't know exactly why he doesn't like the analogy but now here's the the bearing table megan abram and the others do they hold this for all of you or just for your show do you have to do it this way and here's the third here's the real clincher but here's what i really bother by says the shlock and the amec bracha and the evan and the mugging of ram and the bear you have to take the lula first now the question is wit the dogma he just didn't do us one favor here he didn't tell us where the round bomb is where this is we're the russians and we're the tourists so rambam that narrows it down to the arakazaka right so taisus you know that narrows it down to all the toasters right there the only thing is like this then narrows it down to the massages that have at least 99 blacks yeah because it's namaste so what's he talking about it's clear what he's referring to is the following everybody know there's a bit everybody knows there's a big dilemma you okay you you're supposed to make a bracha awesome right so how do you make a broccoli vanessa before you pick it up you can't make the broccoli before you pick it up it's too far in advance after you pick up louis vanessa just like you don't make a bracha in your palace when it's still in the bag you have to ask me right before your mechanism you can do it right before you pick it up so it takes practice not so easy it has to be that close yeah yes it is something wrong you you're about to make the knot you make the brush and then you tighten it up by the way why doesn't right could you still say i'll have a meaning that wouldn't be i hear it okay good question it's a it's a indian that's an indian why the bracha is that but we know there's a very big issue how to make the rakhana lula so they're different there are different um ways around this one way is you pick up the s-rogue upside down one way is by the way that way is not suggested in the shokhan okay so yeah one way is well why don't you pick it up and have and don't have kavanaugh to be your thing not so clear because if mitchells don't need carvana then you're worried so one way is have in mind not to be i'd say now the reason why we don't always suggest that is it's hard to tell people what to think right it's easier to tell people what to do than to tell people what to think so we tell them pick it up upside down says like this look at number six javarec before you take the s-rag oh excuse me no it does suggest it i'm mistaken or turn the s-dog upside down either don't pick up the asteroid or hold the lulav but don't pick up the airstrike or turn out um put the s-hog upside down what do you see clearly from the shell take the lulu first because the shogunate says you pick up the love and if you want to know about the braha either don't pick up the esrog or put the eso upside down so the and this is what he means the rambam the random discusses this twice this discusses the rush the eight says either don't pick up the asteroid or pick it up upside down but it's clear from this conversation that first you pick up the lulav and then you pick up the essence so don't remember says you know with all your analogies to fill in analogies what are we showing them saying they say clearly you pick up the wolf and then the asteroid now you should know that in some of the forum they write that to follow the event so it could be there is some kind of kabbalistic reason to first pick up the esrog and then the love and then to put down doula present but again we know if there's a conflict between halakha and kabbalah you follow the halacha so again dragon ball was saying if you want to know what to do you follow the re-shine him we shine him say first you pick up the lulav and then you pick up that so i think that's what most people do that's what i always did before i learned this indian i picked up i take out the lulav and then the esrog and when i put down before i learned this indian i don't think i was remarkable i wasn't kind you know thinking to do a daft a certain way um the dougamarova would say there's no it's not legislated there's slow would say no you dopko should put down the lula first so in terms of putting it down okay so so let's see from a practical point of view you put down the logo first only because you have to be really careful with how you put the estrogen you have to break the pitta right so if you would just to put down the extra first full of glue in your i don't know just from logistics it's probably easier to pass all your lula than it's the s-rock if you open you know if you open up the ti mess you don't put it in correctly you bang it you're just putting okay it's interesting let's come back to the anointing the united says that there's no comparison between twilight and little vanessa by twin there's a specific lee mode of the how you rashi says means there's no such lemur by lulav and escort that's how rashi learns comes and he comes and he tries to answer the question of the night of his dogma some cypher says he quotes who says first you take the esrog and then you take the wolves and first you put them in paris was a proponent of looking everything up some surface says all of his godless came he never trusted anybody anytime somebody quoted something he always looked it up he said i looked it up um the shame evan shuev you see the mughal from quoted the mate but i looked up to mata marshall he quotes evan schwab they know mafaarish kaperish rashi devin shub does not learn that gamora like rashi that how do we know that whenever you're wearing shall rush you have to have two you have to have shoya also de lav me vahoyo mapic he doesn't learn it from bahayu al-ahari peru not you means to if you learn the gemara that the hoyu means to then it says it doesn't say but you by dalar but there's another way to learn that come on that and that's like this that means like this as long as you're wearing tight office you have to have an ice in other words if it says a and then it says b b has to only be there when a is already there so that's a lemur that could apply to u of an asterisk as well because tomorrow as long as you have is tomorrow you must have pried sadhana says cosman oh a little differently than i said bite filling as whenever you have an oyster yo i'm not sure he says it both ways so he has to mean the way i said it first otherwise in other words it says you can't have you can't have shell rush you can't have titanfall ice without ice so too whenever you're holding priests hadar yeah here he says in both ways what he means is tomorrow creates other which means as long as you have the kappa's tamara you must have the priests hadar and therefore the naughty behuda was learning like rashi according to rashi it's from behold vahayu is not a word that it says by dal and meenam but if it's not from bahayu if it's just the way the flow of the passage that yeah whenever there's a there has to be an ice so too whenever there is tomorrow there has to be creates the other way around it says it's sharpened that when you have the shot the most when you're done then you must have oil that's what the puzzle says in that order that it's the yacht because obviously you're putting on the show yeah at first so then you do have the show without the show right if anything put on that you must put on you must know i would read it that the way to have a shall rush on your head is only if it if if there's already add on right tell me your first to put on the show exactly that means you could that means you could have a shelter you can't put on the shell roads before you put okay fine but we're not dealing with the order the order we got that's the order it says the question is from the prosecutor no no the the the passage is saying in order yeah the possible thing in order first shall yad and then shall rush but says another another nuance of that pasuk is that the shell rush could only be there cosmonaut that it was set up with the situation where there's a shell yeah so too the kappa is tomorrow can only be there if it's set up where there's a situation that there's a uh pre-ates other okay so what do we do la maisa who do we follow do we follow the opinion of the amec bracha and the evan shurib and the shlo and the ram and the bear hate dave or do we follow the dog by the way do any of them say that if you do it the other way no no it's not a matter of years okay so i want to just bring to your attention before i tell you the bottom line i want to bring to your attention another mugging of rum one eight says you don't pick up the asteroid and the other one is you turn the eso upside down and the magnum suggests and if you don't have kavanagh to be your safe it's mother but you should not do this because something so saying um you ready for this again the mughal brahma already told us who who he sides with he sides with the shla that first you put down the lulav and then you put down the esrog and the person who takes it takes the s rogue and then of the smile here's what you do you take the lulav in your left hand first or gam canvas milo and then you take the eso gold stone your left hand and then you take the louve in the right hand transfer then then you go to both of them coming up with this very interesting possibility of what first taking the lula which is against the schla in your left hand and your left hand and then taking the asteroid in your left hand and then transferring the lulav to the answer and then you would say both of them what do you mean both of what ah the schloss said that you have a big dilemma because when you want to hand off the lula to somebody else you need to put the lula down but he needs to take the s-rogue first so here i believe this is how the lavushay srud explains amanda rum we should sort of dub it ibishus but you know the the magnum has invented a way you don't have to put it down you could hand off i but the hand of me is the problem because you need to put the lululef down he needs to take the eso first you only need to take the s-rogue first and then the love in the correct hands but if you're taking it in the wrong hand that's not called taking it so what you do is he could hand you the lula first which is what he needs to do you take it in your left hand but you know how to take the lula first i'm not taking the law first that's not wikihow look here in my right hand then i take the s-hog in the left hand which is the correct lakika for the escrow then i take the lulav in the right hand and with your help and yours of course i just understood what the magnum rum means in other words the the schloss said we have a great dilemma how do you hand off the rule of vanessa to somebody he says i just figured it out the issue of taking the esrog first and then the lulav is only if you're going to do is only an issue that you have to do it you have to take the esro correctly first and then the lull of correctly second but but in this case i'm not taking i'm not taking the lula first because i'm taking in my left hand that's not the correct hand to take the lula so i take the lulav and you're giving it off correctly then i take the essa with my left hand which is the correct way of taking the s2 so i'm taking the s up first and then the lula does that mean to say that if somebody picked up the low load and put the hole in their right left hand and put the estragon the right in add the estrogen in the right position with you know with the piston up right but they're not yo doing it in the right procedure to me and say it's got to be india yeah but in terms of this onion of taking picking up first it's not anyway lmi there's an indian of doing it the way the torah says you're you're too that way i mean once you did it no we're not talking about the mitzvah you're not doing the mitsuba now now you're trying to you'd say the indian of taking the correct one first that indian is only but he's saying you take the wolves in the left hand that's not called taking it regarding this indian do you think you're not getting a mechanical right then what are the two in the same hand yes that's that's the difference so either don't have kavanagh or yeah right okay so what do you do la maisa do you follow the mughal abram or do you follow the mate moisha actually do you follow or do you follow that so it didn't make it to the sheet for good reason didn't make it to the shoot um brings down he says first you take the esso because it's mentioned first okay because the random types this and the rush and the term before they go first [Music] whatever you like to do you're doing like a viable credible source i have a great you've just experienced another torah class brought to you by torahanytime.com