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The Chazon Ish Using New RIshonim Published from Manuscripts Pt. 2
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This episode was sponsored L'ilui Nishmas Moshe Chaim ben Yitzchok Dovid Summary Of Previous Episode Theories Why The Chazon Ish Was Anti Manuscripts Case Of A Forged Gaonic Work Shu"t Shaarei Teshuvah Aruch L'Ner & Klausenberger Rebbe about Relying on Teshuvah of Geonim Aderet, R' Chaim Berlin & Forgeries Letters of R Dessler About The Chazon Ish Chazon Ish & Rabbenu Chananel History of Publishing of Rabbenu Chananel New Sefer from Library For more information about All Torah please visit: alltorah.org Sponsorships email: [email protected] Questions: [email protected]
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[Music]
foreign
[Music]
welcome back Rabbi Dr Eleazar Brut it's
a pleasure to be with you we spoke a few
days ago and we continued season two
on this Farm of Heim kanayevski which
has been unanimously dedicated and
sponsored in memory of David all the
learning and all the Torah knowledge
that comes out of these episodes should
be
ex-husband and we thank the wonderful
donor a good friend of ours thank you
again
um last time as mentioned we discussed
is shita
on manuscripts it's obviously not a
straightforward
easy to describe in one sentence exactly
what he held we're looking for sources
what is
took out of the different things that he
wrote Embark Hashem we have rabbit
actually azabrat who's done the research
and is working on these two episodes to
explain it in a wonderful clear fashion
to the audience last episode we also had
this new Twist by Dr liezabra turned
around and pulled out a safer from
behind them we keep on getting people
asking what are all those books behind
him and he pulled out a fascinating
safer from removing Margolis who's one
of his Heroes so I'm not surprised that
he had a safer of his behind him
this time if you stick around to the end
of the episode Rabbi Dr Lisa broth is
gonna quickly run through a brand new
safer that came out
brand new from a previous previous
generation
as something new interesting so stay
tuned for that without further Ado Rabbi
doctor how are you today
okay so why don't you briefly run over
and summarize what you've discussed last
episode and
continue on and keep us glued
okay so basically what we what the way
we sum the way we began the last episode
is that this we're calling it this two
sheets one is called the sheet of the
mission Brewer which is that uses new
discoveries of rishinim then there's the
sheet of what's known as the Khazana not
to use them okay and what's significant
for us is
he appears from all his writings called
the mission Brewer he Embraces
item and even edit some of them from
manuscript so we're trying to understand
what really is the sheet of the kazanesh
so first we discussed last time the
sheet of the stipler what appears to be
other tomb from the basement has an ish
and then we jumped into what
so we we started to deal with in general
a general question a key question with
the qasimesh which is when you use the
various writings of his if it's a from
let's say it's egress or things that
talmudem say over if there will
sometimes be contradictions so we gave
that as the the introduction and then we
basically brought numerous examples to
reach a conclusion which is that there
are definitely times that the khazanesh
seems to be using new manuscripts and
he's aware of it
um for example one example that I used
was in the pullmus of the shurim so the
khazanish was brought to his attention
and the hazenus used it to
um and he explains it for in the the
he and used it that was what was um
interesting for us
you say a new manuscript of the guy name
was discovered in the 1800s and he used
it okay so and we brought many examples
so the the conclusion that I said is did
we find that sometimes he seems to be
using
okay so now the question is but everyone
says that he didn't hold the Allah
so is there a contradiction what's going
on
so what we re we already brought in the
beginning in last episode and I've
quoted a few times already the Marshall
Rive destler the SRI the age these are
two
dailymoting it in um
in a letter which was published in more
recent years and three days just talking
about it a year afterwards it was known
as was against manuscripts even though I
brought all the evidence from last time
so the question really is is what scared
the kazanesh so I'm first gonna mention
speculation speculation on my part and a
speculation of others
um different types of speculation
because they do play a role somewhat and
understand in the way the world says
over the sheets I'm not going to go into
every single aspect of this
because this is really really a deep
deep rabbit hole but just it's just to
give a feel of some of the issues
because it plays out for all the first
six episodes that we spoke out
and then I will try to show more into
what khazash actually says okay and and
wrap up this episode so first like this
so he wrote an article Maria he's very
Pro
he's very Pro that oh in our generation
new manuscripts but he seems to be
struggling with it and he seems to throw
out something which if you have
conversations with other people over the
years which I have had with many people
oh the people that were working on it
were in such proper Years
A lot of times and this is what got
people nervous including the kazanesh
this is a claim that's been made
you mentioned a bill Clift it's a name
that I don't think is very popular in
the Yeshiva World but one America used
to quote him pretty often this review
Man actually was a big hazenish Nick in
a certain sense and I believe he has a
server called Dasio and if I recall
correctly did he give a huskama to
revolver's Ali Shore or whatever Bubba's
Farm they had a very close relationship
was some type of rebbe inspiration for
revolby and they had a lot to do with
each other
um yes and he has that safer that's yeah
it was it was reprinted in a few years
back but you seem to have been a very
interesting you know he's also Isaac and
Kabbalah I believe all around uh toradju
as they say
um so he it seems from an article he
published in Maria I don't know how many
how often he used to publish in Maria
but I um this is article that's quoted
by others also and it sounds like some
type of claim like that now
and in discussing with other people
where people are just saying things
which the nature that's how we the world
works we just say things that we hear we
pick up what do you think but a person
that I would say that he really goes out
of his way to write this up in a way is
um a writer that I've mentioned a few
times in the past his name is
in volume 31
which came out about 10 years ago so he
has this massive hundreds I think 125
page piece where he's comparing the
mishnabura and the hazanesh and he deals
with all different issues so obviously
one issue that comes up is going to be
the issue the Mr Brewer which I set up
the way the whole story goes is not
so you could see from the whole
um
10 pages that he has over here that he
himself is beyond struggling I I call up
even playing games he's not saying
straight what's going on he's very well
aware of a lot of
um Source primary sources about it says
but it's very hard even even as much as
I spend time on it and spoken to other
people about it it's still very hard to
get a full grasp in this Sugi what it
has in the show but he's trying to also
project more not only what he does say
into stuff that he doesn't say so he
says the mushroom who was people that
was involved in the printing of the
manuscripts she says like this the
Hazardous was suspect for chuva Saga in
Publications from Gaining
it seems that people touched them they
were tampered with
um of course with the claim that the
reason why they were fixing it was to be
to fix the lotion but he doesn't like he
he seems to say that it's not so true
and then he says who are the people that
are doing it
and then they found different lines and
then they play around with that and then
we find strange things in different guys
now the problem was like this
even and then he has Pages
um dealing with this nakuda now even if
there's some truth in some of the
aspects that he says doesn't say this
anywhere actually in all the writings
and all the things that we have in the
castle he talks about he never once says
clearly I don't like gynec literature
because mosquitoes are involved with the
discoveries and all the kyrgies stuff
and all these things I don't like it it
gets me nervous they're playing around
with it so the sort of even and
especially in the case of this reveimbal
in these same Pages he brings down the
quotes of the khazanesh so what is it
that really you it really requires um
one has to really figure out what it is
you can can't say things
I mean if you had a conversation let's
says that he had a conversation with
with with
um that has an issue about it okay but
here you have and this I don't have to
go any further I mention this a few
times the gynec literature that was
discovered we have from Khan kalievsky's
own notes of a page of his live of his
of a catalog of his Library published
and it lists out a bunch of these guys
imprinted by these quote unquote
masculum
now and you and not only that not only
did he own them he uses them in the in
the course of his writings so it's sort
of like it's very unfair to say such a
thing now in previous episodes I said
that to me there's too much projection
on what people want the story to be that
it was masculine is this muscular thing
when the truth is it was not it was far
from that I mentioned already that there
were plenty of big people that were
involved with it especially in the early
years especially some of the people that
were always going in for many years so
to just like start claiming things and
putting things in the mouth is very
bothersome to let's say someone like me
I want to know what has Michelle if you
have a clear source to say that but if
you're gonna make up stories that we
know it's much you have to be very
careful and and when we're talking about
Adam gado like the qasimesh
um one of the daily in the pastor you
have to be very careful what to say and
don't put in now I'm not telling you
that there's never a case and as I'm
going to show so in a moment that there
are cases of problems that happened and
people noticed it but so what like this
let me just illustrate this and and
what's interesting is this this is way
before masculum and this has nothing to
do with particularly it turns out
that if someone I I once
um earlier I mentioned such a thing
called the true I spoke in one of the
earlier episodes I spoke briefly I
listed it out for one minute if someone
wanted to go to this farm store in the
1800s and he wanted to buy Enoch
literature what would he do he would buy
a fuse farm so one safer was called
you know how early it came out it came
out in 1575 but as far as what I pointed
out already then there was nothing for
hundreds of years of going to literature
besides this chuba safer comes along
Professor Simcoe Manuel I've quoted him
in the past the year a year shamayama a
Yaki yiddy who happens to be a professor
in Hebrew University time department but
uh
and he
shows that there was intentional zeufim
of a bunch of chuvres was taken straight
from which is which is funny because the
shock Mark just came to existence at
that time and there's pages of true
quote-unquote him that are
um from the but on the other hand it's
clear that this work really does have
now they're able to show early in it
work so here you have a work way before
masculum come on the scene hundreds of
years before anyone even knew what the
word masculine means it seems this
printer which we don't know why he did
such a thing maybe he wanted he he
wanted to put out a fat safer he only
had x amount of material so in 1575 he
publishes real authentic dining material
and then he publishes puts into there in
the name of guy named pieces taken from
the which is funny strange so now
because of that someone's going to want
to say okay so we should get nervous
maybe that could happen with anything
you you never know
um when such yes you have to check into
it you shouldn't just check out you
shouldn't accept anything blindly you
should accept you should check into it
you have to have proof that this is real
but okay this is one such story
[Music]
and said this is going which is like
and he and it's funny is it's right then
the chocolate just came out you know
literally the Rama they were talking the
1570s but not that he not took pieces of
God in him then that would be a real
evil thing a more evil thing which we'll
discuss shortly if such a thing happened
anyway
even the safer which I quoted last week
when I was talking about the she the
What's called the Pullman's hashiram
which is all the different issues
relating to shiorim of what the sheer ke
beta and all the different things that
racked the halachic world and arayan
um rack stalactic world and especially
when it comes to pesach and different
times a year what's the sheer for kaisi
of how much wine you have to drink and
how much mats you have to eat and all
the all different places so once early
Source turns out from this truvis called
Shari chuva ago
inikainum from that's first published in
1802. so there also there were chuvas in
there
that people were suspected they've
proven that there's problematic truvis
that might have been stuck in by a
forger but on the other hand they've
proven that most of the literature in
this chuva safer has other ways to prove
that it's real from that recite him say
the exact same we shine and make the
same exact claim but Shane got in him
and say the same thing so we could say
that at the same time that it might be
problematic there might be some
materials you have to check into it you
have to know what it is so Le Marshall
and this was um we've quoted this
already more than once is that the
archlener he once wanted to he he he
there was a there's a Dean in a certain
thing relating to guy in him and he
argues on we shine him based on a piece
of information that he discovered about
with haigon and the chuvashiri chuva in
this same Chariot okay
this is Dar cleaner and we've already
discussed in a special episode about him
and we mentioned in this series he was
very into new discoveries
on the other hand not every um the
closenberger of
the reactive he's very upset he does not
understand how the arjunaire is able to
go so far except the chuvashiri chuva
and any points to a different Chariot
that no one brings up and he says this
trueva is problematic so how could it be
it's a strange thing the safer has
strange things in it so don't bring
halachik rias from this safer and Allah
you're going too far with what your
conclusions are based on this piece of
information to understand what high
going was about but like everything else
it's not so simple
um there's there's more confidence but
okay but we see something that the
cloisonburger of very it got a very
um gotten very nervous so to speak and
this is probably coming back to us
okay now
there's another thing that people throw
out there and it for sure has some type
of
um thing to get people nervous about new
manuscripts so this we're not going to
go into out of safe but just going to
mention
I just have to point that we have to
step back and appreciate it Robert
pulling from
safer to prove his point but again you
know I'm uh I've mentioned in the past
you know I'm a closenberger whatever
that means he was my sandik and uh but
everybody you could talk about for a
second his guidance so it's not like a
classic a little different than how you
uh relate right correct here we have a
red bug the significance over here is
even though he's known as the Clayson
for a lot of people actually call him to
klisenberg you know why I'm just
throwing this out right now because they
want to emphasize his gallus in learning
and Sack he wrote a massive set of
chuvas farm and halacha which is not as
common by many rabbits to have such
amount of literature
so anyway the point is that this is the
closing of
um was pointing out with our and he
there are other cases could be made
within the closing that he was nervous
about certain types of things that that
came to life now but but there's another
case that they like to throw out when
you're having this conversation it could
be in a bowl session that you'd be
having in Yeshiva or something about
this topic where Yeshiva have the fund
love to talk about before I'm showing
them without knowing anything so this is
another such example which is the salmon
rice
someone comes along and claims he
discovered a chuva safer from the rush
and make some problem is there's certain
coolers in there and people start
complaining claiming it's a forgery it's
not a forgery good for the Jews bad for
the Jews there's so much to talk about
with the safer but the point is suggests
yaakov Spiegel
that that started getting people
sometimes nervous whenever they would
see a new mat let's say someone comes
and eight this happens when was it the
the poem was about to say for starts
right in the late 1790s so from then on
people get nervous new safer I want you
to prove it to me better that it's real
safer but the truth is that it's not so
simple because the way I was able to
show pretty clearly from the the
for a few hundred years pretty much yeah
they proved it you didn't come in and
just say okay here's the ritva you prove
it lamasha you open up a Meister of cook
Edition you'll see these proofs all
different types of proofs they'll bring
them they'll bring all different things
but
it's able to be proven and then once
it's proven it's pretty much accepted
okay now another thing and this this is
a more of a speculation which also could
be very well true it's like this
sometimes you make a major Discovery
then academics
new safer comes to light
and then they go with it they prove a
bunch of things and they build up a
large Dakota then but the problem is
even then they didn't have all the
evidence
comes along
60 70 years and all of a sudden they
find new evidence and this changes the
whole thing completely
the opposite way was thought I'm just
going to throw it out there again just
for a marimakum
it's known that in 921
922 there was a huge controversy about
the calendar
which led which caused the homologous
between Jews of Palestine Jews of
Babylonian about how to Mage
there was big debates about it now no
one really knew that there was even such
a police what happened is starting in
the 1860s things have gotten came out
and they started happening there was a
big deal and more and more and more
until between from the years 1860 till
1915 a whole bunch of pieces of
literature came out and they basically
pieced together a whole story with her
side you're going being always stick in
it other cultural people and and they
created literally a whole story and then
from then on there wasn't so many major
discoveries a few years ago someone went
back can we do re-look at the evidence
and based on new materials that we have
a new Calum and all different things a
fellow Sasha Stern in England from yid
wrote a book called the Jewish calendar
controversy a fat gigantic book where he
basically went back to also again saw
that whatever was assumed for the past
hundred years was wrong why because they
didn't have all the information all of a
sudden once you have all the information
it changes so it's very possible is and
you could see this type of
which is is requires even at a safe how
will you go with it who you found a
piece of variation and it's real but who
said that at the end of the story and
once you're going to touch that you're
touching
who said that that's where it ends maybe
we're going to find another reason
that's going to change it the other way
so you have to be very careful even when
you do find a piece of evidence
that's a suggestion which we will show
in the Khazana study how far he goes
with this okay anyway bottom line is
that I was I'm looking and looking and
looking I'm trying to understand is
there something that could have
triggered the khazanish to have gotten
him very nervous about forgeries in his
time I mean to say if I'm gonna show you
my kitchen dominant man I'm gonna make
up Tyrus and everything they're good
Jews they're bad Jews but what happened
did something happen did an event of a
big forgery happen in the time of the
Khazana that could have made it to get
him very nervous about forgeries so all
of a sudden
based on different things I realized
there's a safer we know very well
you see from cochem is known as
where he made a riff-like Heber on
kachem
and in there
he has a piece and he says the sources
he's talking about note
is you xiaomi on the circus
now this is published when in 1922.
all of a sudden
a line that I didn't at first did not
realize what I was saying and then all
of a sudden it happened it says if
[Music]
now the controversy of the usual took
place when
start it's the whole discovery of the
usami costume started taking place in
1905 and was going on look 1922 still
the mission of is using it in the
scribor
now already early on a little after 1905
they're starting to get suspicious and
the newspapers are tumbling about it and
trust me
still felt maybe it is by the time this
point the president is saying when I
don't know when the Khazana wrote this
piece in bucharist but he's saying no
we're ready it's assumed to be as if
what happened is and if you read and you
go into the sugy of you shamikuchim this
was a great forgery that rocked the
Allah the rabbinic world at the time
articles and this the the forger didn't
back down he really fought for his
Hebrew claiming no no it's real it's
real it's real today it's assumed as
another push it it's a forgery how he
pulled it off it's a different question
you have to speak to hobelander of
Hungary he's an expert on it he's
written a book in Hungarian on I don't
speak Hungarian but he wrote a bunch of
articles in our Israel which is supposed
to come out as a Hebrew safer
um anyway he has many articles about it
he deals with all different aspects of
it but here is what I'm using this is
because I found the line and I don't I
don't know that this line is referring
to the usamikachu there's a line which
is quoted often in Clive's and he says
like this he remembers that there was a
story of a person
that he hid a saviar in the ground
and basically he was discovered
that he was lying but he wanted to show
that it's real so he he was dug it up it
was like a whole scan it seems it was a
whole scandal at the time so when you
read these types of things and you see
you know the story you show me culture
man this is playing out when in the
years the castle is most active he's a
young young person in the city in the
area of Eastern Europe This controversy
was everything everyone was talking
about it you have to understand if you
show me caught him as a discovery for
you'd like to Kazan ish so you'd like to
have it these are this is the bread and
butter for these people so what because
of the result of what happened it's very
possible this is what Kata hasn't so
nervous because I asked the question
the question is that beforehand for a
few hundred years no one's really
getting nervous yes there was a police I
just mentioned called up summon rice
which needs its own store to understand
all story but it didn't happen
that there were
um um cases that were so blatant of
forgeries and then caused the whole
tomorrow okay but this is just a
suggestion
to try to give us some understanding
possibly into what God has initial
little nervous
totally unimportant question why would
someone
current day read any articles in
Hungarian
because he lives in Hungary and because
he lives in Hungary that was the way he
could get a doctorate in Hungarian
University without even have to go to
school so it's convenient for him but
otherwise you I understand right that's
a great answer so basically saying he
wrote as a doctorate that's why he wrote
it Hungarian right right correct
now okay anyway the kids are the point
is that there are stories of forgeries
there's a a fine yidl I know very well
one of the youngest children of Rebecca
vilau he's published a few works and
he's outing different people of with
tremendous forgeries and the motivations
for forgeries are common so when you
hear these type of stories again today
we project this on the haznish but at
least he will show me catch him I have a
thing it's though it's mamish his years
it's he even talks about it he was aware
of the US he's calling out to Mr Brewer
which we know and I believe I mentioned
film because of what is him and then he
didn't stop anyway the point is and um
we could go on and on about it but that
there are cases of forgeries and that
might have been something that bothered
the khazanesh to get him nervous about
it okay
um
and just one other nakuda even people
that I'm just I just want to say two
other type ideas about forgeries and
then we'll go on with the Khazana which
is like this the the rib
number one is I've quoted also that
Darius was very Pro the yidades
one of as I one of my main main Heroes
father-in-law of RAV cook was very
pro-re-shine him and liked them in a
massive Mountain that he had back and
forth with the interesting yid to put a
model Yakov reichmann when they're
talking about chuva saganum he says
not all our cultures they knew there are
times that their stuff was clear was
stuck in this is there's some playing
around in some of the various truths of
gottenham even though
I quoted strong evidence that others a
lot of times liked it and used the new
discoveries including item but you have
to be careful you have to be aware that
there could be such things Berlin also
there's a letter where he writes to
rebelio harkovy rebellious was a person
who learned in valajun I spoke of Adam
also irelia one of his ears expertise
was
writing to make sure to send it to me
and I like and great but by the way
there's one thing and you're glad over
there it smells from it's a karoi
there's something stuck in so you have
to be careful
so it could be and this goes back to the
whole thing which I'm asking is saying
really you could rely you have to know
100 you have to be careful there could
be sometimes look in the story you show
me catch him there were good Island that
really believed it was and it turns out
it wasn't okay so this is one nikuda and
one last nakuda with with forgeries it's
very common arayan we've mentioned a few
times very very of the auctions of rare
books and manuscripts is very very
common today in the from Jewish scene
and every once in a while there are
times that things turn out to be
forgeries one of the great there's a
great ID in uh
Weiss and he's known as being he's
busted many forgeries there's even been
on the market things that are perfect
perfect duplicates of letters of the
stipler letters over Haskell bramski and
others and somehow do a certain
information in the letter and they
brought it to him and that's how he
figured out that it's a forger you say
the handwriting was identical
and it turns out they were movier this
guy was about her needed money and he
was he basically was forging documents
of a few different it was being sold on
the markets so there is this thing from
money people need money there's sadly
there's uh
um because it does happen
even amongst us from you then so we
could say this is a shash and maybe this
also had to do with what it hasn't held
but this is projection I don't know I
don't have proof says such as scared
about that but this is as I said he
lives in a time when this actually
happened interestingly enough there's a
police about to say for eschko if it's a
forgery or not definitely not as big as
a controversy as the usami catch him and
the khazan-ish
does use the forged eschko so it could
be okay so some people say you see even
he who was nervous and concerned about
using four Jackman's here he did use it
okay anyway this is just not not
relevant right now yeah
does some of this conversation you talk
about you know being careful and being
suspicious and things like that you know
there are many things in today's society
you know that you can either abandon
totally you could use them be suspicious
but it could be it depends on how some
of these forums some of this literature
is being used you know obviously certain
things you're not going to use as you
know to be matronaceous based on
something which could have a but as a
tier of for another sack that you want
to have added zero that can really
depend on how you use these Farms right
right no this is this is a very valid
point that some people say you know if
you're learning the gemara and it gives
you episode the uh whatever so you want
you go with it but the point was which
is what I was showing is the mishna
Brewer which he's the person as the I'm
using just him as the name but it's much
more he's using Allah myself and I just
saw someone writing in Irving the amount
of times he relies on his mind-boggling
so he's using it so for real things so
that now it happens to be I use this
can't be so angry about it because if
you he would have called why isn't it
calling out the mission Brewer about it
I suspect there's much more to the story
which I hope to get to okay now let's
get to um one last aspect for today and
that's his file this is his finals
with destler I told you had a close
relationship with the Khazana it appears
and ELO Marshall a few years back they
put out a volume
of letters of his fascinating fastening
volume this came out about 20 years ago
this 10 times at least he talks about he
says over things in these letters that
he had conversations about what he
quotes in two different letters
this is printed in in
um back we're holding in 2004. okay so
they talk about
he's talking to someone it doesn't say
who but he brings down twice that hasn't
told him about if this strange if you
find strange things in the manuscripts
you have to be careful
so they it turns out this so this is not
these two letters that he has it doesn't
tell us where these letters are written
to
and not only doesn't tell us these
letters written to it so we don't have
the background which is what I discussed
last time a lot of times very hard to
build anything if you don't know what
it's talking about
and we don't know to who it is now I
just have to mention because this is
also very important and right over here
there is a letter
um to
um a few different a few different
letters about this following thing with
destler came from
Isaac in Guyana literature was it going
and this the the
um the Ben Aryan Ben Arya which is found
some in different places in the back
there's in the back of the gemara he
wrote our guys
on the eater
and he had them and eventually some of
them gets to observe lighter and Reserve
lighter publishes them at least on the
truesta rift and they existed so he was
someone that was sympathetic
um you see from the other letters he
understood the hashivas of publishing
and he was pro-it so here we have if
that's there wasn't this
um what I'm trying to bring out is today
people don't realize as much or Desta
was a mama a real-time very well aware
of what's going on he knew the
significance of literature his altazeda
was involved with it he was handling
publishing it and it ends up getting yes
published so he knew what's going on
yeah he had a conversation with the
president more than once and he's
quoting it it turns it doesn't say to
who and why and what's the background
okay fast forward to this year
a friend of mine
and tells me he picked me up a safer I'm
always happy to hear that it's called
igress revelio destler that was the
Assassin family very exciting I get this
I get the letters from him start going
through it and in here all of a sudden I
see there's a letter
relating to this letter that I just
quoted about the kazanesh turns out he
was writing to his talmud they were
having a back and forth and they the
family even gave this letter to the 19
to the 2004 people that published their
vessel stuff but they didn't print the
whole thing I don't know why not
but anyway over the Year it turns out
it has an ish said there was a
discussion we are of desler it seems
wanted to bring Ariah for something from
Robin hanano in hagigo and that's when
the Khazana said his thing there are
times there are strange things and we
shine him and and there's
such a type of thing okay
all of a sudden this helped me
understand more because in various
pieces with the khazanesh talks about
um his his complaints about nourishing
him it turns out it's specifically about
Robin
okay let me just mention one such place
it says div this isn't a letter that's
this was in a deal in a Pumas that I
don't know really a poem is but there
was a Hassan wrote a piece about it
and uh wrote a whole back and they had a
whole back and forth with him we will
discuss this more um but he says in this
back and forth devre
they have no Messiah
that the full of mistakes
and he doesn't just say it over here he
says it in other places it's full of
mistakes
even when people do it carefully they
could then is
so it could be very very
um dangerous because it has to be made
you have to make sure you're capping it
very clear carefully
then there's a different consonation
another causation and and what I'm
seeing is all of a sudden there's
something that has a chance with rabenu
okay on the other hand I must throw out
there's a different piece of where he's
talking about something if he takes up
something out then he says but I saw
and he brings a Raya from Urban so
sometimes he does go with it anyway so
this obviously and this is the this is
the last nakuda that I'm going to
mention for today before um next time
we'll finish up this is fouls we need to
have an understanding of the discovery
of Rabino khanano so very briefly
is as follows
in the if you open up a shast's vilna an
original chance will not
in the back
they wrote up a whole thing about what
are they bringing new to the table so to
speak
it's a few pages long
and fascinating fascinating information
if one wants to understand the
development of the history the shots
will know what they did when they came
out we take for granted everything that
we have but literally everything that
they did they spent a lot of time money
it was a huge investment of money
because it could have backfired and then
they would have lost a lot of money they
were under a race of time they needed to
put they wanted to put out the shafts
and it wasn't simple it wasn't a simple
manner but they also wanted to put out
as many good new things that are out
there so they sort out all different
types of materials and they were listed
out so at the end
they explained very clearly what it is
that they have La Marshall
when they talk about they say to Shabbos
various messages they got from a
manuscript the Vatican in running
okay so here you have it people always
love to say over if the Vatican has
Jewish manuscripts and there's hidden
manuscripts and people have stories upon
stories based on it but yes the Vatican
has manuscripts and we somehow got
access I'm about to say how we got
access in a moment and they published
materials in the shast villain that
everyone has in their house from the
Vatican Library okay this is relating to
Robin hanano on certain
um the British museum was how they got
on bubbakama by Matia
they printed Anonymous actors okay this
is they write this out listing amongst
the many other different amazing things
helping a person decide you want to buy
shots villain you should buy it because
it has all these different things okay
in the beginning of the volume they
start talking about who worked for them
who and and they describe more at length
who is involved with their Publications
so they list out and this person this is
a very significant piece of information
one of the good islands of villain at
the time was
he worked for them
and he was on my gear for them in all
different things he also is a magia
working on writing haris on rabena Canal
so they described the story
that basically they're running against
the clock they find out that there's
manuscripts it's not like today if
someone finds out there's a manuscript
today by tomorrow he could have a scan
of it in his computer and within two
days he could have it typed up those
days you had to get we're talking about
Lita getting someone in Rome the Vatican
other places to get it and it's hard to
read to get it typed up there's no such
thing typing it up you write it you copy
it by hand you have to read it you have
to find someone who could read it you
know obviously to send someone down a
special person that's expert reading
costs a lot of money
so the kids are
there was a Yin which we quoted in
episode number six the Victor he had
great connections with the Vatican so
much so that because of his work he was
allowed to take out books and all
different things he did he used his pull
with the Vatican
and he was able to get for the Shas
vilna materials
not only that he got them did they write
this all out about her stuffer he got
them a person an old man who was like
seven years old who was a professional
transcriber of manuscripts this was a
job in those days
and even though we also spoke about and
other people and did you say from needed
him for his work he was
vilna to be able to get the manuscripts
of Robin because the Clock Was ticking
what does it mean the clock is ticking
if they don't have it the investors the
whole thing the whole big massive
project crashes they have to have it out
by a certain period of time they can't
say okay we need another three years to
do research they got money from people
up front people would want there to see
the work already the clock okay anyway
the kids Who's involved with this the 2K
sorry for me helps them but you can
already start seeing that it was under
the gun there was a rush
so so it's interesting is after you read
this Dover you can understand why a few
times it hasn't just points out but not
that there's you can't rely on anything
in the in the Robina Canal a bad that
you could and this is a key point in
this whole discussion is held and this
is I'm going to give more sources for
this message next time that even if I
find a safer
um let's say and there's problems in the
safer but there's certain truvas that
are proven to be right and it's fine we
don't say just because one true is
problematic it passes everything each
chuva vitruva is as they say is innocent
until proven guilty now interestingly
enough there were other good islands
that were Isaac before the Shas film was
just to note because this just came out
through David 3 Hoffman in the 1860s
this is before the 1880s is when the
chance of illness happening but the
1860s already he publishes
um The
Robin's with Horus and it's um it's not
it's a very fine article and you should
say it from my friend the rabbi Hoffman
discussing it and the point is that as I
mentioned already in earlier episodes
many of them had no problems using Robin
and Marshall Ramirez
we just said it many times using it all
the time the kazanesh was nervous
because he came across specific pieces
and he said something is not right he
was very sensitive to the lotion and
that's what got him nervous but we know
and we quoted this also the haznish has
great respect for messiah of Tyra as an
early region and we know it will reside
and bring it down so anyway
um just to conclude to wrap this up
right now
until next time is that that it's that
that what I'm showing is that a lot of
times the shashash was specifically on
Robin which was a new discovery which
was taka published under the gun as they
say
and who didn't have the same let's say
when certainly come out today sometimes
these Works they spend years working on
them Horus are full of eon every single
thing they're comparative they they it's
there's McCombs that are sponsoring it
here when the shots women was putting on
the side so yes they did have my
DMs without mentioning it and other
people helped them but it was a rush so
there and and it's true there are pieces
that sometimes it's missing in the
hataka and today actually based on new
discoveries they found much more
material that they didn't have for the
shots film and this is Marshall if you
buy a chance of action they've been
putting in new pieces that the chance of
only doesn't have this is advertisement
for them but they're not paying for it
and they have put out a critical edition
of Rubino Canal based on new manuscripts
that they've discovered tons of new
pieces as many many new pieces Urbana
based on the new discoveries but these
works are done much slower much more
careful so not that there's a Time on
the shaft they'll know that they did it
they were they did what they did and
people used it and like listed out and
they used it even with all the mistakes
even the but I said it even has an
issues that that's the kiddish so you
have to use every piece the goofish you
can't make a cloud for that anyways next
time it's Hashem will finish up one more
partial to explain and then hopefully
this will give us at least some insight
in the khazanesh yashita on the
manuscripts and it'll help us also
understand further with
thank you very very much fascinating
that horrible piece is the real parisha
um so before we close out I brought do
you want to surprise us with a safer
give us a couple minutes on something
going on in your library
okay so so just as agdama I must say
we're recording this episode it's very
it's a very tough time for me because
right now is what's called Book Week in
arts Israel or now it's known as book
month
and basically haredi places and and
um non-harity places publish books all
year round with adafka release certain
books now and there's major sales
wherever you go all over it's Israel and
people are buying books it's like in the
it's in the ear people that don't buy
books ever buy books anyway so yesterday
was What's called the the the non-from
um sale which takes place in different
places all over it's Israel so I was
there for a few hours
and so I'm just gonna show one book very
interesting that I picked up and it
happens to be the connection is because
it's relating to a lot of the stuff we
discussed in season two of replying
kenyevsky
okay so it's called
I did Cayenne is the author I know from
yid Mizrahi saive highlight
okay this book is published by Magnus
press That's the Hebrew University press
it's 438 pages and paperback I don't
know why they were cheap and they didn't
make it in
um
hardcover it's very hard for me to read
it in paperback but anyway
fascinating work based on his Doctorate
on now
there's endless material I've mentioned
a few times even in these episodes
there's the travels which in the past
year three different editions came out
about them and other manuscripts with
that relaying just to the he does
travels
I don't know something over they list
out I think somewhere somewhere like I
see one place the list gives 126 kiburon
the kiddish of that is he was traveling
a lot of his life
okay anyway this book what's the
hashiva's in this book there's a lot of
literature about already especially the
Marshall Meister of cook has a book from
mayor Benito this book focuses on three
main things one is
the Michael Tafe which I've quoted a
bunch of times in the past which was his
travels where he documents things that
amongst other things that he documents
he documents the Swarm he saw which I
used him for in these episodes for the
manuscripts that he saw he was the
person I said one of the main people
that I think made it known that the
manuscripts in all different libraries
he wrote a book which I quote all the
time in these Sheeran The Shema magdalem
which is his in-depth work which is a
classic
and he lists out about the Swarm again
manuscripts he saw people he met all
different types of things and another
work which we also spoke a little bit
about that the birke Yousef which is his
classic work
where he uses the vast materials that he
found in his travels so all this is
discussed at Great length in this
fascinating book ah it came out
yesterday how do I know I've read some
articles of this I've heard him speak
about certain things in this topic I've
read certain parts in his Doctorate it's
excellent work again there seems to be a
very um in great interest not only by
svardim a very proud of
yesterday that's what I'm mentioning
thank you very much and now's a great
opportunity you know to
ask
our audience if they want to sponsor
episodes because this money goes
directly to support Rabbi broth's work
some of his work includes buying his
farm for the work to be enhanced so you
can reach out to myself schwade mou.org
or through Dr liazar brat at gmail we
can discuss episodes discuss dedications
discuss your critiques discuss your
compliments we're open open to all so
thank you again
foreign
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