The Divorce Secret Nobody Tells You, with Yitzy Gruenebaum R'Shloime Ehrlich

Okay, I'm ready for episode of podcast. podcast authentic real and it is to divorce. fights and disagreements. Anytime So background experience mention. So without further ado, Let's tell for the audience what's the name of your company? What do you do? >> So um the name is Concord mediation. But first I want to thank you for having me on and uh >> every time I get a a couple that you send me or you worked with the husband worked with and then they come they come my way. One thing that I've noticed is that they have a certain amount of of calmness for what they're doing and they're not back and forth and thinking maybe we should work on the magic should. It's not it's it's not they have a clerkite. Okay, this is what we did. This is where we we came to. And there's a certain calmness to that. And it's very important because when people think that they're still saving a marriage, but they're going through the divorce, then not not that you can't go back. You could always go back. You change your mind. You'll go back. But when you're working on a divorce, you have to be working on a divorce. When you're working on a marriage, you're working on a marriage. >> I guess >> and that's something that I I think that comes from your client. But I do want to hear the secret that how do you give that over to them that that they know >> because I'll do everything in the world to make Shalom. That's what I'm known for. I put together very difficult marriages as you know but uh sometimes first of all I got involved too late such cases nothing to do and it's mentioned and but when I realize I really convince and I speak to parents and the grandparents and everybody that mixes and let the couple divorce. If they need to divorce already, let them divorce. And um this is going to bring me to a very uh difficult question. Do you think that I'm not sure you deal with all these um do we have more if they don't end up by you? like is is the other are the Iber across the board people are fighting and and they're dragging out Git for months and years and lawyers and in a way yes I I do think that there is more but I I would say that there's when you have someone that they're both hish they're both the same level they're both ishivish they're they're doing they're the same level from kite that they were when they when they got married or at least now they're the both the same level from. Okay. The the issue with the divorce is a little bit you feel like something went wrong. There's a problem here because we we we believe in there there's there's a there's a right and wrong. There's a way that we're supposed to go and then there's something and and there's a feeling of someone's doing something wrong. Something should be different. Something should be and and that's a very hard feeling for the couple themselves. >> Right. And over there, I I feel like a lot of people are mixing people in, >> but it's the couple themselves that's hurting. So, it's a it's when someone's giving advice to such a couple, you have to be extra careful. Like, at the end of the day, we love to help you then. Why? We're all brothers and sisters that just kind But, you know, if you told me that, you know, my two kids were fighting and you stuck up for one of them, I'm not >> right. >> No, thank you. uh you know then there are there are times where let's say someone's not the same same level from Kai over there I find that for the most part the couple themsel understands they understand that they don't see the things the same >> eye to eye and different values >> but then the community doesn't understand that the community is like how could this be we have to come >> yeah we have to go save them it's not it's not right it's a it's it's more a problem of the community egging people on >> Mhm. >> and racing on the situation than the couple themselves. >> It's that kind of divorce of of one of the two that's changes their religious status. >> Yeah. Then they understand like they they've been through this. They if they went through, you know, they did any type of, you know, which most people know. >> They know already when they're both from and this is a thing to be careful with is people are like there's a right, there's a wrong. Yeah, but sometimes it's not necessarily right away. I'm going to go off a little bit. There's there's uh I'm a mediator, so things are, you know, there's people that are in the healing world. They try to heal people. They try to change people. They try to make people better. For me, it's we need a healthy process to figure things out. So when when is a marriage a marriage? When is marriage not a marriage? Right? >> So the way I say is it's it's a simple equation. What does it mean to be a husband? What does it mean to be a wife? What is a marriage? >> Right? >> He answers that. She answers that they match up. You have you have you have a they don't match up. Do you want to make it match up? Some people might be delusional. So, but you know, if you want to make it match up, so you could work on it. If you both tell me that you don't want to make it work out, you don't want to match it up, you don't want to the other one should change, you know, should match into your category. So to me, you know, some might say different. I I don't deal with this question, but I feel like then you don't have a anymore. And sometimes that could happen even from couple you could have a fight over, you know, where you're going to live and that blows up, which is Shiva and that blows up. Whatever it is, whatever the fight is, whether you go into the kitchen or not, you know, who owns the kitchen, that could be your fight. So beside this, so do you want to change that or no? No, no, no. You want that the other person should, you know. So, there's a certain place where you could get a clarkite. Uh, and I I I think that going through these things and realizing that not everything, you know, who's the one that broke the if you go with such a such a like a thinking, it's not someone broke a not to live a this way and you're not asking to live a with it this way. So, it doesn't match up. >> Right. Right. I I think that could it be that um many times people mix in like parents and they tell their child to fight because uh they feel it wasn't right everything that the child wasn't treated right or or at least they think so because the therapists who they went to do not share with the parents everything and parents need to realize that when your child is going through a divorce just tell your child I'm here to support you tell me where I should support you without giving advice because you don't know the details you own child doesn't share with you most of the time. They don't share with you every single detail what's really going on. You have one narrative. There's something else happening. The therapist has sworn not to tell you not to share with HIPP or not to share with you what really went on. And your daughter knows why she's getting divorced. So she's telling you a different reason. And by you giving advice, we love giving unsolicited advice for free. I always tell people, don't giveis like you don't know nothing. If I'll ask you, you'll give me advice. And this is one of the hard things from parents when we see Mary of kids. I married a few kids already. It's very difficult. They come, they discuss with us certain things. They don't follow up and we need to stay quiet. We don't know what happened the next day. We can't follow up. It is difficult. And the support groups that teach parents how to have married kids, but at the same time, if your child decides to divorce, maybe they're not telling you something. They don't want to hurt you. Maybe there's something much deeper. So would you agree with me that that makes sense that they should tell their child, "My dear daughter, my dear son, if you I see you getting divorced, I'm sure you spoke to the right people. I'm here to support you. Tell me what I should do, what I should not do." Would that be the appropriate would that help and take away many of the fights in when it comes to divorce? I think you told me this one time that especially in the community when the parents marry with the child they feel more of a responsibility for it. Um but I I would say not just the parents and it happens to be the community a lot of times when people come to divorces the parents wouldn't come. I mean I'm not talking about the g I'm talking about more like the actual negotiation. They might have a uncle they might have a asken they might have a you know people that come with people. Well, not everyone comes with people. People that come with >> by the it would be more common that they would come with a parent >> really. >> But the they they they kind of stepped away from that which is interesting. But I would say for everyone anyone that's that that that that knows someone that's going through a divorce and and you feel like you know I I I say it this way the couple read the same Beina article that you read. I know that you know how bad divorce is and how you know the same ammy article, the same Vina article. They know they know. And I'll say another thing that you tell me sometimes is um you don't understand. >> Yeah. That's such a you know >> a as you go like as you see more and you get open to like the different areas where you didn't understand what something was or you didn't >> um you know there was there was a podcast I'm not going to name it that triggered me so strong not personally for the cl for me misinformation there speaking podcast that came up a few weeks I don't know a few months ago and that's the people that are helping children of divorce. So, I understand that those people are very very uh involved with the kids and the pain that they're going through from a divorce, but that still does not give them the full picture of what happened, why the parents got divorced. And those people that are one-on-one with the kids, they have a lot of that sadikim, the good people, but they are they they don't know the whole picture. And they made a podcast of talking about so many divorces could have been avoided. And they they made like a whole song and trying to interview people and say like look this child and that child is suffering so much the parents got okay you could go with emotions you know Benpiro says facts don't care about your own feelings you know it's it's fine it is yes everybody knows like you said everybody read that article and everybody knows that divorce is extremely painful and there's a lot of ramifications a lot of stuff going on from all sides the kids are suffering and everything else but if your child or your sister or your mother decided to get divorced, the only thing you should and could do is just support them and say there must be that something that I don't know. I'm sitting on this chair over here. I don't know. I'm sitting with people 17 18 years. I've seen hundreds of times where people going through Shalom or or all kinds of parents and children relationships and stuff things that I'm sworn I'm going to I'm going to they're going to bury me with millions of secrets and Parents are never going to know. Siblings don't know what their own siblings did. They have no clue. They think they know. They were told one narrative. They were told a story just to and they give advice. And I don't know. It's just in general, not only about divorce, but we're talking about divorce. We don't know. But if your sister, your your daughter or anybody around you or your parents very painful. I had last week kids came to said their parents are getting divorced. It's killing them. I said, "You guys don't know. We know everything. You don't know everything. I happen to know a lot. You don't know anything. It's so easy to give advice, but those advice that advice could be very harmful harmful. I I I I don't know the exact podcast or you know that that you're referring to, but I personally am triggered by it. Also, >> I'm triggered by it because a few reasons. First of all, I I'll I'll come out, you know, I don't like to come out against people, but I'm going to say this. There was an organization that they put out a thing about uh single mothers collecting for single mothers. And the way they wrote it, erasing the father, and I it's like, what what are you raising already? You're raising how much money did they raise? I looked up. I wanted to see what they raised. Raised $180,000. $180,000. You're going to put ads about erasing a father. Do you know who gives the most for these children? Not your $180,000 that you you collected for the the fathers give the most. Stop with maybe put out a campaign about shalom, about getting along. I'm not saying like one over the other, but you have to be very careful what you're putting out. There are um >> because there's many different points of views to every story. So an organization like that, let's let's give them the benefit of the doubt for five seconds. From their perspective, look at these women, which is true. I I I speak at sister Shabbatons. I love their organization. They're an awesome organization. I have my own a for the divorced men. I'm in this field me and my wife where we speak at these events. We know it. And and it is true. Single mothers go through gehenn the divorces and almunas. No doubt. But at the same time, it's not always that the husband or the ex is not giving enough money. Maybe Taka doesn't have maybe he's not able to or maybe she's playing with him. She's not letting him see the kids and she only tells the world she's not getting money from him. Maybe there's other things going on which we're quite familiar with. I'm not I'm not negating everybody, but we need to be very balanced when it comes to conversation like this >> and and they figure out how to add how to put out an ad. I'm not saying >> right when you said erasing, they actually used the word erasing or >> they they had a thing about erasing it. I I messaged the person that put out this ad and I told them like I don't think that I you know do I have a data? Should I say something? I said something. It really it really bothered me the way they they put it out. There's other ways you could get your money. Meaning right between me and you are people really having the most Rahmanas for for for for the divorce you are they having more Rahmanas for the alman. So bundle them together you know figure out another way like I don't think that >> you don't have to raise the husband. >> You don't have to. But back to the other part about like the children >> I >> children have no place in in the fight between their parents and and trying to make them feel like trying to make them like what are you doing for for what? And to try to stop people from getting divorced if that was the purpose of it. I back to what what what I what I said in the beginning. I think that when when a couple comes that that that was by you, they come with a certain serenity. They come with a certain clark height that they they know what they did. They they you have to be to get to vadouch. And if you're making these decisions, you have to know both. And I think a lot of the problems a lot of the problems are coming from people that they're they're doing extra shell and bias. They're holding marriages. If a marriage is burnt, you don't need to cremate it. >> Right? If it's not burnt, please do whatever you want to do to save the marriage. But if there's nothing you could do and you listen to a podcast and you'll be like, "Oh, you know what? Maybe let's >> child. >> What do you do? What are you going to do? What's your plan? How is anything going to change now?" You don't have a way it's going to change and you don't have a whatever. So, we were just by event and they they spoke over there about the the marriage. You know, the statistics was that people are waiting too long to get into marriage counseling. >> True. Okay, >> I must ask him. >> I think people are waiting too long for their divorce process also move it all back >> also. If there's nothing to do and you st you back and forth and you >> it's not of good for the kids, they see you fighting, they see you disagreeing, they see everything and many times when the parents get divorced, they see a healthy mother again or they see a healthy father or even both sometimes and one of them or both of them get remarried. So the kids at least get to see a normal healthy marriage. So one day when they'll get older, they'll know what a marriage was supposed to look like. But if they grow up in a house where there was always animosity and fights and whatever and then how they going to know what a good marriage is. >> So I'm not saying that they should stay together. Fix your marriage. Either fix it or you're going to compromise on your life. That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying that you should you should get divorced. Don't get divorced. I don't need you to get divorced. Like people come up to me, they're like, "You should have. You shouldn't have d for people to have shi what does that have to do with my pronos my pronos I could go out I could become a a cashier in a grocery I could figure out yeah this doesn't have to do with my pronounce right you want people to have shi have shi but don't prolong this is serious things and the the most important thing that I would say is if someone has a few kids and they're struggling with a shias stop being a baby you're dealing with a very serious thing. You You could be petty. And you're right. You're 100% right. And you'll be right if you get divorced. No problem. If you want to work on your marriage, stop being petty, >> right? >> Stop it. Cut it out. Get your act together and work on it. If you can't work on it and you can't this and you're going to sit there toiling your thumbs and Yeshua is going to come, >> right? >> We believe in for everything else. >> Exactly. >> We're going to work. We're going to work hard. We're going to Oh, no. The marriage is going to work out the over there. the the the third shift is going to take care of everything, right? >> I love when people use basher in one place and on the other place and it's like it's like they take guard wherever they want to mention the people that do very risky, you know, and then they and then when it comes to the world suddenly it's not bash they need to fight. So you know people >> and if you want to say it's bashart then why did you scream at her when she put the linen on a little you know the linen wasn't on when you came into the bedroom or the stopper wasn't cooked then it wasn't bashart like you know if you took bash so seriously in your marriage it's very simple everything is bash and everything is let me just bring it back to this >> anybody that's getting involved in sha bias and and thinks that there's no hurt for getting involved and shi is they need to go to a professional in time. People come and they're sitting by me and they're like, I want one more chance. I could do it this way. I I feel very bad for them and I feel almost bad. I don't mean to victim blame. When when it's when it's reaching the end, let them know that it's reaching the end. Let them give that last rock bottom, whatever. But if you push and push and push past the breaking point, >> where it turns to something where Even if you could fix it, even if you were the same person for Zivic Sheni, the the person who married the other person because you have too much history, stop it in time. Don't don't just shle for no reason. You're not helping. >> You're hurting. It's not in loyal loy type of thing. You know, it hurts. People are getting hurt in the process. And that's that's the problem I have with >> and that's also that's also building more anger and more resentment and and and the whole all the feelings come up and that that also is in the way. Let's go into a little a different angle of this whole conversation if you're okay. I first wanted to say right what's going on with the person going to marry that person from from the Is he allowed to do maybe someone else is going to and everybody likes this question must be no has a beautiful line and uh he says like this he says if someone is a a lazy person or a negligent person and he does not do his proper hishadless then he is changing ing hashem's will on this world. Hashem could send panf and the person wants a that we should do our our job doingless. I need to open a store. I need to do a business. I need to do whatever I can then if Hashem wants to send me pan will come. But if I I'm a lazy disconnected person and I don't do what I'm supposed to then I'm not going to get it. And the same thing with the he writes. So you have to do extraadas to find the right for your child to make sure that this is not going to end up in a disaster like many many unfortunately hundreds of divorces that are happening and I stick to my thing that most divorces is the was not meant to be in the first place in other words it was not done properly the two people don't match the kids don't match there's too much whatever a lot there's some a chunk of divorces because health issues and the yishkite issues and then everything else. But many don't be lazy. You're not helping Hashem. Don't turn the blind down when it comes to you. Do your maxadas and you have to divorce like you said just get divorced. People say, "Oh, but if I'm going to get divorced, who says I'm going to find a good Who said?" You do you. Who says what? If it makes sense to you, you went to therapy, you did everything, mammish everything, and there's nothing doing get divorce, lost in the belt. How many people got divorced, they got remarried, they're very very happy married. And also there you have to doless. You have a good dating coach dating and remarage and making sure that's what I do to make sure that you have that you're doing it right and you're doing properly. Wow. This this >> Yeah. I there's a word that triggers me sometimes. People say that marriage is is work. >> Marriage is work. Why does that trigger you? >> It triggers because I I feel like marriage is effort. >> Effort. I like that. switching from work to effort. >> Yeah. And it's like like the one place put in the work. Put in the work. >> But they look it sounds like a like this to be married. I think it takes effort. Yeah. You got to be there. You got to whatever. But that's every relationship effort. You put in you put in your time. Put in do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do what you have to say. >> A man has to open the cans. The woman can't. That's a man's job. You stick out the garbage and he has to kill the spiders. That's a man. I'm kidding. So do your job. Do your effort. I like that. It's very good line. I'm going to use it. Your efforts in if you saying putting in the work, it sounds like as if it's like a unrealistic expectation. There's there's this is not a yusha concept but they they they say that when when someone they stayed married for you know the 90 years and then they caught it's not going to say that they maybe would say but you don't get an award for staying married it should be enjoyable like you should >> it's not such a yusha idea but I'm I'm saying it like >> you should have enjoy life of course we're not here just to enjoy life but you it. Make make the best of your life. Don't put yourself in bad situations. You might be right. You might be right. You know, but these are relationships. We don't could I have walked into the door before the other person that should have I should have walked in before. Yeah, but you're a nar. You're making an issue out of it. >> Exactly. >> There's certain things where Jacobson always says in the name of the Balatana, he said that children, what's the difference between children and adults? Children choose to be happy over being right. Adults choose to be right over being happy. I'm right. You're very right. Your wife shouldn't have, should have, would have, could have, but you're not happy. Not a good ch bias. Don't be right. Have a good ch bias. Be respectful. Respect each other. Live together. Let me ask you this. What are the the few main um obstacles in divorce where where people argue what the main what they're fighting over about? What what's is is what's what's the most difficult part of divorce is is is getting along afterwards with visitations keeping the manum and when when drop of the kids is it money monetary is it what what's the what's the main the in the world >> there's a lot of people problems people don't change after divorce you know people are people yeah you can work on yourself you could change yourself put in the but people are people but I would say like the divorces that really the real problems when you see a divorce a lot of times is when they're in different locations. There's a relocation issue. One lives in, you know, Lakewood. >> Wanami. So, where are you going to live? How is Shabas going to work out if you're living so far? That's one of the big issues. >> Interesting. >> Another big issue is that people take it so seriously. This is another >> take it too serious. What What should >> Divorce is not that complicated. There's three things. Of course, it's life ahead. We don't know what's going to be. We're in the hardest time of our life. But it's it's not the biggest. You need to figure out what happens with the children, >> okay? >> Both practically and how you going to raise them. You need to figure out the money that you have now and the future money, the future payment. That's it. There's one other thing which is, you know, who's going to claim them on tax benefits? Like >> who's going to file the past tax? These are the three topics you're talking about. >> True. I like that. Not very. Now, every fight that you had in your marriage, >> right, >> they're all resolved. Those are not the fights for divorce. >> Those fights don't exist anymore, >> right? So, all the fights that you're having now, the child support, the visitation, all these times, whoever spoke in the marriage about visitation during the marriage is like, are you going to babysit? Are you going to babysit? Could you take the kids? Could you take the kids? Now all of a sudden, all these new R. It's it's really like we we assume that there is a fight >> and the whole thing is laafka. It's dka that there's any fight. I just want to tell the audience that in the last year I've taken a few couples that I went along but sent them many that I went along to conquered mediation to your to your company beautiful office we sat down over there I was just there because both sides wanted me to make you know and you sit over there so calm and you come with all your list because you're you're cocking at the siga this is your siga your soya and it's so amazing how you're able to keep the calm you know sometimes He gets angry and she gets angry and you're sitting there and you're listening and you're bouncing. They go home and they come back and we figure out and then we just take them to a get which is unbelievable. It's I've witnessed I've witnessed very huge obstacles in the room and I don't know how I guess that's that's what you did. You went to college for this. No. What did you What did you do? What did you learn? >> So I >> it's called mediation. It's like an official >> the degree I went for is negotiation conflict resolution. >> Conflict. Oh, okay. That makes >> So it is Yeah. Your mom is dead. I don't know how you do it. >> Where I went, they're much more focused on like what they would call the bigger and yanim. You know, they would have global warming, Israel, Palestine, you know, like they have the bigger yanim, but you know, where union negotiations with, you know, negotiations and conflict resolutions because you're you're doing unbelievable. I I I I keep sending you people. Not everybody works out by you. I had one person I sent to you, you probably know a few weeks ago and it just didn't work out. And I know clearly because one of the two sides were just simply not trying to be honest and that's not going to happen. So they could go around saying that uh you know I didn't send them to the right place or but I know that most of the people that I sent you away are happy thanking me and grateful and it's working out and and the way you're organizing that even after the divorce is bashul and bashalva and something more which is crazy uh two of the divorces this year I think two two that I know for sure that I sent you you even organized for them a bezdon to come down in your office with with and and to Right. The get it should be done package and you had a lawyer over there. You have on your team lawyers, right? What do you have? Yeah, >> they could file themselves >> the stuff to put to put it into the into the government the contract >> and that's that's just it's just I wish you could put in maybe the next couple that's it shouldn't be a next couple or but maybe we'll ask the next couple should have a video in your room and maybe we'll blur the faces how beautiful a divorce could be in negoti iating the most dear things to people like people are negotiating and you see them unbelievable how how sometimes they're mamish enemy some a lot of pain over there in the room and and still you're keeping the calm you have a good voice for it also you have someone told you that you have that big voice and you say you know and you hold the room you hold the room it's amazing and and and uh so grateful to Hashem how did you get into This >> I got into it by mistake. >> By mistake >> I worked I was doing real estate. I switched what I was doing. I didn't like it. I ended up by a bezen part time and then from there it was it was more >> right. That's the first time I met you >> by Rabbi Khan Khan where he had the best. Yeah. And and you were you were mediate. You were one of his mediator. >> I didn't come to be a mediator when I came there. I came there to help him out set up the office when he started to write the you know set up. Okay. That's that was my job. It it morphed into like becoming doing divorce mediation. >> Um but I would say like for a couple to come there's three things that they need. >> Obviously needs to be safety. You know if someone's going to eat someone up over there you know it's not going to work. >> You need that people are competent. So example obviously there's levels of it. If someone's going to be in the psych ward and they're going to sign away something, it's not going to be, you know, you need >> people to >> that are present, two healthy people >> and you need to be willing to go through the pro process. If you're not willing, you're not competent or it's not safe, it's not going to work out. Those are the three right away when a couple comes in. If it's if nothing if if they came because the parent told them the roof told them to come to you >> to know everybody's you know everybody gets uh diagnosed you know everybody and I I'm not looking to change anyone that the only mahalik I know is what I consider to be like this is the proper way how to deal with something the healthy process right >> so you tell me a addict a gambler a narcissist bipolar did I deal with them I'm sure everybody that I've dealt with someone falls into that category that the, you know, for sure that the ex would diagnose them that way. Uh, but I didn't deal with them any different. It could be that we're going to do the, you know, let's use the example of a narcissist. So, the guy is going to try to dre you like this. So, then you'll ask them in a way that it stems with they're telling you the reason I can't do this is because I don't have the money right now, but next week I'm going to be earning $150,000. >> Okay. What happens if we delay it and the child sport starts next week? Are you okay then? like the more you're fitting into what they're asking for, >> the more they and and then it breaks them down. We have no problem in our goal in the session is to work with what you need. >> So the more we could figure out what and then throughout that process I find is people start realizing that nobody's threatening over here. It's a voluntary you don't like it, you'll leave. >> One thing that they're for sure going to have anyone that went to me, maybe they're upset that they paid me, but other than that, so what? So, I didn't force you into agreement. You don't need to take the agreement. Nobody's going to force you to agreement that you don't like. You don't like it, so leave. >> The other thing that I'll say is that what's what's the hush? There are people that they feel like there's no hush. Let's go to a person that does it for free. Besides that, the free is not free because you start paying for lawyers and this and that, whatever. It's not free. >> But let's go to someone free because there's no there's no here, >> right? >> That that's that's one side of it. That's probably the biggest reason people would not come to you is they feel like there's another um but what the actually is is that you shouldn't realize that there's a I'll give you example you want to talk about uh when this is probably the biggest how much time are you going to spend with your child so I could I could ask you uh so fine okay we're talking when do you want to see your child when do you want to see your child or and and then okay I want 5050 I want 26 all the numbers. Right. Right. >> Or you start. Okay. So, tell me what's your schedule? What what do you do? >> Mhm. >> You're a drummer. You play you play by night. So, you come home what time? >> Are there nights that you don't play? Are you like looking to change what you do? >> According to that, you said, >> "Okay, so that's what you do." Or you can have someone, they work for the I'll use a non-Jewish example. They work for for the the NYPD uh the terrorist unit. They work on a three-day schedule. Three days. Yeah. Three days. No. Three days. Yeah. Three days. No. So, their schedule is going to be very different based on what >> every contract. Every every contract signed between two people when they get a divorce contract is different according to what they're >> what they need. But when you ask them what their schedule is all of a sudden, wait, >> you could fade and you could this. What's your what are you doing? Now, there are certain things where obviously they're there standards and you want to break it up. So, you know, you would break it up. Okay, there's there's the family time. Well, define what family time is. Some people they want to start Thursday night. Some people they want two hours before Shabas, right? >> You know, then there could be there could be the daily, you know, the daily grind, the you know, taking them to the bus, them coming off the bus, you know. So, it really depends on the people. But rather than going into a place where you start out with the, you know, these are things where you can mess up just by wording it wrong. And that's you have to think before what is it that you're trying to do? What is the atmosphere that you're trying to make? >> Amazing. Can I ask you a question? Um, I find the people that that I'm dealing with throughout the years that a lot of men, maybe it's just, but a lot of men have an issue when their ex gets remarried and the children change their last name. How do you deal with that? Man is Klein. Man is Moshkovich. And then my kids, they they you know, so you know, does that come up? I'm sure >> it does come up. I would say >> how do you do you get involved >> for I I don't like to give opinions on things and what people say >> you let them >> for the most part I really like but I would say that now we're on a podcast I could speak my mind I would say that I think it's a very big mistake for someone to insist especially with an older child to insist to switch the last name. First of all, you're telling the kid to be fashem your father d we're going to I don't care who who he is. You're telling him there is a problem with you that we're going to have to keep hidden. >> Again, I'm not I'm not clear. So, if the son's name father's name is is is let's say >> if Klein keep >> what happens if >> now you get remarried. So if it's a baby and you're telling me that the the new siblings are going to be calling the same name the plan is that the father's never coming and that was the plan the father's you know or or what would you say if the kid was a yasum should he switch the last name >> I hear it's a good question what you should do >> depends how old the kid you're >> but now from the father's perspective you're telling a father we're going to take away your last name and to me >> it's very painful >> I believe anything that that you that you could do not to take away a parent from being a parent that custo when you put in the agreement that nobody should be called Tati or mommy except for the biological parent. Why not? >> If you're telling me that he's such a danger, he's such a threat, he's so whatever. >> Okay, what are you? It's a threat that he wouldn't be called that that you you'll call someone else tati. That's the big threat over here. If there's a threat, if there's a problem, so there's a problem. So deal with the problem. These are the type of things where you could be you could give in and there's no big deal. What are you fighting over? >> Right. But I going back to the names a second. I think I I believe that a lot of times there's a little kid. The kid is a year old, two years old, three years old and let's say the father's name is Klein and the mother gets remarried to Moshkovich. Uh besides he brings in his kids of mush because they're going to have they're going to have five six new kids and this child is going to be the white the black sheep in the family. My name is Klein. Your name the kids want to be called the same name. They go to the same kaid. They're in the same house. When they get older they becomes or maybe in the 18 19 they switch back if they want. >> Is he going to his father every other week? >> Let's say he's going to his father every second week. This is very common scenario. >> He's not different anyways. He's the only one going to his father. >> No, but he's 90% of the time by his mother. I don't know a huge sense of time his mother and and all his brothers are called you know there's the minds yours and ours the ours kids are are called a certain name and he feels comfortable that way >> right I'm not going to say that there's no place I'm just going to say >> the question is at what age do we switch it >> first of all to make a hopskus about it is one thing another thing is when it actually comes from my son you have a question and you want to come then and you want to go to the father and you tell the father listen this is the situation you want to ask then but I need to have it ready in bag with me now. Bes my divorce. >> I need that he could switch to Mashkovitz. Even though >> maybe I'll even marry someone with the last name Klein. >> I I need something now. >> You want to have that conversation with Slice? Of course. >> Can we leave it open in in in the contract that >> Why do you need to leave it open? You could change anything you both agree. But you're saying that if the fallen does not agree to Muskovitz, >> you still want to be able to >> I if that's the big issue about your divorce. spoken many times to young young >> and they're very grateful. They say their their real name is a different name but they're very happy to have the new name. They love their new father. They grew up with him. uh there's so many siblings, all his brothers, they all everybody has the same name and he's he's very grateful and and and and and many times the the biological father doesn't care because really in Yiddish a family name is nothing nothing zero zil the real father's name is one thing you call up to the fat but the family name is it's only 100 years old 150 years old the whole family name it's a little more >> so maybe by that podcast they should have the kids speak about how they like the last name and the father would hear and he say okay you know what let's switch the last name but to to tell me that it has to become between the parents you need to win it right now that you said the same thing is true and this is a more like consequential thing is about relocation you want right now you should have this to marry someone from England you're living in my your your kids are in yeshiva here your ex is here and you want to tell your ex but if I'm going to want to move to England for for a sh then I'm going to uproot the kids. I'm going to move there. I got I'm not saying it's not going to be the right idea, but maybe do it then when when the facts are on the table. Okay, this is what happens. You know, >> come back. People do that. They come back to you years later. >> I had people come back for a lot of things, especially moving away. I like that. >> Come back so you figure it out. Negotiate again. You have it now that you kick the guy out with with you're so nothing. I'm going to take away the last name from you. You're not going to be the tati anymore. I want you less time with this. I don't trust you with this. I want all your money. I want this. I want that. >> You're not working with another person. Like that's not even working with someone. That's the type of thing where someone's coming with is like a whole, you know, if you're sitting there, you're doing the math. Okay, the guy's earning $100,000. Okay, so I need him to give me $11,000 a month. >> There's no $11,000 a month. I I understand that you could get you could figure out how to finagle the the child support should be calculated like this and and but there's there's also maintenance. There's also tuition. There's also this there's and what the kids shouldn't go to therapy by whatever and the kids shouldn't we're dealing with there's this much money. If you're in reality, you're in reality and you're going to have a if you're not in reality and you're you're you know you're eating off what Yanim's divorce agreement said. It said, you know, it's not going to work out long term. You're going to be back and and and doing the same thing again. I'm not saying it's by men also. It's by men. If a man's going to say, okay, I'm going to pay this much child support cuz I'm working in a job. I'm earning $150,000 and I'll pay this much child support. Now, my job is 9 to5, but I'm going to take off every third. You know, I want the right to bring the kid to school and to pick up the kid from school. If you're working by a desk job and you're gonna be kicked out tomorrow for doing that, where's your plan? >> Exactly. >> The same thing. I'm not not trying to like you have to you want to win the world, win the world. But how is that going to help you for for the future? It's not going to help you. >> Wow. >> So basically parents when they have their kids divorcing or askun or raun I have raun listening to my podcast and always encourage people to listen. Send them to mediation. Don't send them right away to a toy and don't send it right away to a lawyer because they they get involved in the whole thing is I've witnessed mention and you just you could do things so healthy you know it's enough you were fighting while you married at least now let's >> I'll add in the there's a concept it's called the the steps they call it um IR IRP it's interest rights power you start you have a fight you first the first step you do is you try to figure it out >> the interest >> you set it down you sit down you talk it out >> then you could go to rights we could go to azdon we could go to a court then you're dealing with claims when you're when you're trying to work it out the step below you're you're dealing with what I need this is what I need there's no reason to then you'll go up You go to court, you go to Bez, you go to wherever you're going for for your rights. We're in a civilization. A civilization is that straight to rights. It go straight to that is power, a war, a fighting. We get him fired from his job. We'll get her to have a bad name in the street. You go up with steps. You can't you can't go the other way. >> Where I am, it's an in it's the interest. We want to figure out what can we do. But people jump to power. Let's let's get an order protection right away. People jump to, you know, you jump to rights to claims >> and those things block you from from ending up. >> People that go to you want to go to mediation. Some people go to mediations by bezdons or whatever. The problem is and this is where I left why we left be you know why we separated the two. If you're coming to be you're coming with claims. If you're coming to mediation coming with your needs we want to figure out your needs. >> Needs versus claims. >> Either it works that it doesn't work out. If it doesn't work out, move on to your claims. You have claims. You're not you're not putting your claims aside. You have claims. You're going to use your claims right now. It's about your needs. Could we meet your needs and your interests? If you ask of all, we have a deal. If not, there's always another place for you to go. Nobody's stopping you from going to court. Nobody's stopping you from going to BNI. You'll go you'll go wherever you want to go. Power. You're jumping to power right away. You're you're you're trying to leave that. Leave that. We only go to wars when you need to go to war. >> But there there's steps. I like it. It's so nice. Wow. So so Emma because >> it's so painful. Fak the kids suffer so much more from fighting the divorce and the situation and back and forth. That's where the the is starting. But if it's done you know three times the Mishna is mentioned everybody wants after the divorce. Okay, you fell in or you you struggled. It wasn't for you. You're moving on. You want to move on with So, at least divorce Bashulum. You could live together. Divorce if it's possible. Again, someone's divorcing a a very complicated uh multiple personality disorder. >> You You said you have listening to the podcast. I want us to tell you and I think you're going to appreciate it very very >> it says that that when when someone does a get married. Why? Why? Why is the murb? >> Now, so there's a joke that people say is cuz the kids, but it's even if there's no kids. I want to in says that nowadays when you give a get there's no nowadays >> really >> what's a lot of people don't believe. Go look it up. Um >> so again so if you get if you >> if you get that the husband and wife nowadays you can't just give a get you can't give a why is that >> okay >> so I I think I think this is that the is our relationship to the and and we know that bus of a dam, you're not going to have more from the than you have from a bus of a dumb. So your relationship with people if if you know where you're holding in your relationship, we both know that we're getting divorced or reluctantly or whatever, but we we understand relationships, >> right? >> Okay, it happens. If if you don't understand a relationship, I need to give you a geta. Don't think for a second that you have a relationship with the there's people that they with the mamish fire they totally out to lunch. It has to be both together and that's what >> for a second don't think that you have a relationship with if you can't have a relationship with people and that doesn't mean that you can't before us in some sense right >> yeah it happens even with it happens with people it happens it's not you know but if if you can't understand that and you can't go through it normal and you can't be there and you can't you need to do it and you need to do At least at least don't do it for yushkai purposes >> for yiddishkai purp and that's both the person that needs to and the person that doesn't you know I'm not I'm not pointing fingers on who it's on >> right >> but you don't understand relationships you don't know where you're at so >> very very very very clear very understood so basically if someone did everything they had to they're realizing it's not working out for whatever reason and they decide they want to get divorced, what happens is they reach out. >> So, they could book online. They could go to the website concordmed >> mediation.com concordmediation.com >> and they could just click uh schedule a call. You get a free consult 25 minutes and the purpose is >> Oh, so they could talk to you for 20 minutes, ask you what you're doing. Ideally, they both come and the purpose is that we want to set up right away that we're problem solving decision- making, not litigation. Like, we're both here to figure it out. We want to figure it out. Of course, figure out what works for us and what makes sense for us, >> but we're here to figure it out together. That's the goal of the consult besides for okay, we'll talk about the pricing, we'll talk about the scheduling, we'll talk about the other stuff. But if you get your you and your spouse to both come on and and come on to a Zoom consult, >> you have a chance. But if you're never going to come on to the consult anyways, enough to tell you're coming. You know, you're not coming anyways. >> So, yeah, that that's the idea. And then after after that, I give them a packet. that's uh has all the information we're going to need to be able to file the divorce information just to get where you're at right now, a snapshot of your life, >> right? >> Then they'll uh obviously there's a consent form which what you're signing is that this is not to be used in court. You know, you can leave at any time. It's not a you're not signing I don't have any decision making what you're going to do. >> Yeah. Um then when you come it's a two-hour session. It's generally it's three times that people come back to it. You want at least a week in between. After each session, I'll give them a write out bullet points of what was agreed. >> Generally after the third session is when they'll, you know, cuz I update it throughout the sessions. They'll say, "Okay, you know what? This is what we agreed to. Turn that into a divorce agreement. Send them the divorce agreement." They read it over. They say, "We're ready to sign. Okay. Let's finish up all the court papers. Everything's ready to be uploaded to the court schedule. Okay. By the get we upload the papers. show. You've done both at the same time. Obviously, you need the judge system. I know if it takes some time, but >> other than that, you you finished everything at once. >> Wow, that's amazing. We we have to finish, but I I want to at two three more minutes. I want to ask you something. Um I'm just trying to think what people would want to ask. You know, it's hard while we're sitting here to come up with everything. But after the divorce is done, signed an agreement, worked out visitation, worked out um alimony, um child child support and everything else. Now problems happen you know he has to drop off the child six o'clock he comes seven o'clock you know like and he's always late and the women complain you know she said and I understand her because she has a schedule and then she says he's always I said listen he divorced him for a reason it didn't change after divorce he's still coming late I'm kidding so the question is like this in the hvelt people always take like uh they call him a media it's not really it's >> a mit like a mment >> asken and that ascan is the one that brings And she wants to make the option in her father's house and he wants to make the pious at his father's house. They all can only do Thursday and they can only do Wednesday and the father says gaz let the baby's been half shaped overnight and tomorrow we finish in my house. We know all these story >> or scar they do up at two >> at two and then the belt at three another half a year at five everybody throwing a lung pie or black couple six slice four slice I'm learning a lot of things lately do you know that that this yam is not very kosher it has four slices >> yeah it's like someone told me like your and your this >> you know this >> as I was probably struggling with my ever since I have four I like it It's better on my head. But >> you know the story of >> no >> a guy got kicked out of yeshiva kid got kicked out of yes because of the yamaka. So he went to he tells is this yam the same good as that? He said yeah. He said but they kicked me out. He's like no they're the same like so what so what's your issue? Like they're the same. Like you're making the same issue that I don't know but they also have this issue. Four I never knew that. I guess I guess I was missing information all my life. That's four slice and six slice. you know there's like Allah says okay hopefully the people when they're going to go through the world but let's go let's just wrap this in into this package of today how do you work out tell you a terrible story first there there was someone called me up I was the third person this is the first one of the first cases that I've done in the bezdon they called us up and they were telling us so they already had two three different people and I I was explaining to me why this is going to be different and I'm very different than what I was different then and I would I would make fun of myself from then also what she told me was is that the kids said mommy could you call up the fitler and ask them if we could go to tati for whatever are you nuts >> you're going to call up the fitler so who's the parents now >> exactly the fittler is just bring >> in a regular in a in taxed home you say okay ask mom yes t >> who go ask the fitler imagine A lot of these mitts make a lot of issues. >> So >> because they put in their own their own >> another story was that there was the the father took to a hotel and they had coffee in the hotel and the fit said it's not kosher. >> Laya says she looked up later and she felt bad that she she made it issue cuz she looked up later and she saw that CRC or whatever. I don't want to put it on whoever said that you lie to drink the coffee but he was like maybe they put a kazer in the coffee maker. So I asked I asked her like did did he ever go to a hotel? Does he know what the coffee machine looks like? And he's like it happens to me. He said he never went to hotel. You have to know what people are going through. You know like if you went to hotel maybe maybe it is a sh maybe it isn't but don't go to a mansion that in the coffee maker they put in a you know maybe it is a problem. I don't know. But I'm just saying like there's certain things it's not necessarily your issue. the the middleman might want that the kids to go with a minion. The mother might not care. The father might not care. The father might not care if the kid you know you're imagining new issues that are not your issues and that's not your life. You can't be more careful than parents. Parents are going to let the kid go into the street. What are you going to do about it? You you're not going to stand there and you know if they're not from they're not from if they are from they are from like what what are you going to do about it? It's not >> yeah they don't want to go down that road. They don't have enough time. >> Back to this. So my advice is you're never going to get a competent person to be dealing with all your that that that should just be a text for any issue in time. Deal with it in the time just to get past the time. As long as you're both open to keeping a list and when the list builds up that it's enough worth it you to pay to go to someone to figure it out, you'll go, you'll pay. We don't deal with all the issues. Every every there's another enough gadgets we could buy to make our life easier, but we don't spend the money on it. Maybe a self-driving car. How many people are driving around Teslas? They don't put in that extra $12,000 to drive by itself. Why money? We don't just spend so well. So, you're going to go to this even if the person's for free. It's a you're wasting time. You're wasting. >> So, how do how do you think the shavevelt how should a a a gam that divorced his wife, how should they be communicating? He should come on time. Yeah, he should >> fine. But how should they communicate? There's always something >> they should make up if it's if it's an issue that happens a lot of times. She's coming 20 minutes late. So make up. What's going to happen? She says, >> "No, but how do they communicate directly?" Basic things, basic. You have to keep that uh you keep that you're saying you're coming 5 minutes late. You don't write back, well, what's with the child support from last from from the No, keep it separate. just very informational. You want to keep that >> if you're able to if you're able to have more conversations than that. You want to talk to each other. We're going to have a conversation or even we're going to have a conversation with someone. We're going to have a conversation with the kids therapy. >> A lot of they have a WhatsApp group with a third person on it. They communicate but both know there's another person on the group or an email also. There's a third person CC and and that's how they do because they don't want to have a mach. >> Yeah. Yeah. What? There's a there's a app also. What is it called? >> There's an app is our family wizard. >> Our family wizard. The problem I think that's good. I'll tell you the problem. The problem is that people like text people that text >> it's immediate >> don't like WhatsApp. People that WhatsApp don't like text. >> Interesting. >> You're used to your user experience. Everything is recorded. >> It's a recorded but it's kind of like in between email and a text. You have to know if you like that style or you could get used to it and you could do it. Gavald if it works for you. Um, but if it doesn't work and you you want to like just if you want to make it work, meaning not the other thing is everything's recorded for court. >> If you want to make it work, >> make it work. Something that's factual, you text back. Something that's bigger, you say, "Let's have a conversation or with someone else." Or if you don't have conversations, however you deal with it, >> right? >> When it becomes big enough that that that you need to spend the money, you need to go to someone. So, go resolve it. But if you're not spending the money, know that you're not spending the money. >> As far as payments, payments is a separate thing. And there is something that hopefully we're working on and it's going to work out, but it's not so simple. Payments. But payments is another thing. Make payments on time. >> Ideally, the idea is to have it automated. So the idea from this service that they're trying is to have it automated. But also, >> you mean you mean when the father gets to go right away? >> Right away. >> If it doesn't go, you get an email that it didn't go. it's recorded. That's the idea. Um, you know, so if they follow along, hopefully we'll they'll be able to give a update. The other thing is when you have a dispute over whether you should or shouldn't pay for something. The biggest thing about payments is know that these payments are real. And this is both from the payer from the receiver. It should be an NALA amount that works, amount that you could be if you went lower, amount that's higher, and you could pay it if you went higher. You should know the payment and the payment really has to happen. Don't go for uh let's pay a million dollars a month. It's not happening. You're not even getting your $1,000. >> Do amount that works. >> Well, >> whatever. Now, for the one off times, you should have a system. And the idea for this thing is to have a system that it's going to work >> that if you dispute it, you can't fight over $150. You can't go to someone. You can't go to >> You need a systems. The idea is to create this system. That's what we're working on is that that it should be able to decide. But again, that that's not yet. But I would say make payments. Payments are real. Resolve your issues. Don't let issues just hang and >> be on top of it. And if you have >> and take your marriage seriously and go to someone that knows what they're doing, that knows about marriage, knows about divorce. Go in time. Don't don't wait around. >> Uh we have good people to to to deal, you know, there are good people. If you if you you see someone struggling in the marriage, the one thing that you could say is go go get help. Yeah. >> If someone's fighting a divorce, the one thing they say is, "Please resolve this. This is not about us." >> I put together a few different marriages in the last few months alone. People that that were separated already bringing them together in different cities. Unbelievable what's going on. >> I had people that were by me and then they they stopped which again like you go through such a process. It doesn't necessar I'm not saying it could happen. You go through and it doesn't. So I meet I meet someone like that in the grocery. It's good to see you. It's good not to see you. >> Good. All right. I really appreciate that you came on. Uh I think for the people that are going to be listening and not seeing it, it's going to be the phone number on the screen, but say what's the phone number? How can we >> 845 5239400 >> 845 >> 523 >> 94 90 9400 >> 9400 and and concordmed >> mediation.com >> concordmediation.com and they can reach out to >> and whoever's watching it they they should put in comments. and people that had good experience. If you're not embarrassed, if you're not if you're not I had a good experience or a family member of mine had a good experience. You see, uh my job is not to promote his I wanted to be my job is to promote Yes. Okay. >> 100%. >> Okay.