The Future of Mental Health, Technology & Antisemitism | Rabbi YY Jacobson & Dr. Shloimie Zimmerman

the yeshiva.net. It's almost like today you have to take a position like some years ago you know you could be a par Jew. You could be a humanitarian Jew and a progressive Jew and still very Jewish and proud and I love Israel and I love my people and I love me too and I love Black Lives Matter and I love the feminist movements and I love progressiveness. I love everybody cuz I'm a lover last few years it's like what are you a lover of? You're a lover of kamas. You're a lover of You're a lover of Nasala. What are you a lover of? What are you a lover of? Burning babies alive. It was one thing kamas. It was one thing the rabbid anti-semites. Okay. The extreme right, the extreme left, the academics. We were waiting for the the psychology community is going to come and one after the next, the most prominent voices in trauma, in addictions, in pain and suffering aligned fully completely with kamas. Hello everybody. My name is Dr. Dr. Schlamese Rimman and I'm the host of podcast therapy with Dr. Z on the living network. Typically our podcast is audio only and available on Spotify, Apple podcast or the living hotline. However, we had a special opportunity to collaborate living with unite to heal which is Amudum's fundraiser. Yakov Langanger hosted a conversation between Rabbi Ywway Jacobson and myself and it spanned many many topics including mental health, shame, trauma, AI, parenting as well as anti-semitism. It was a very deep cabalistic and psychological conversation. I hope you enjoy and gain from it. >> Okay. So I'm very excited because you are both yidden obviously that I know and >> and after that everything is >> Yeah. That's it right. Exactly. >> That's the truth. >> That is the deep deep truth. >> But also your experience is very different. I'm sure there's overlap going to yeshiva and being from Yidden. But I would love to see what the commonalities between both of your day-to-day experiences are like. Uh I want to start off with a question about the experience that you have today as it relates to the mental health world. We'll start with Riv Y in your profession if I if that makes sense to say what is the most common mental health issues and challenges that you are personally seeing today. I would say, you know, without we could zoom into specifics, but to give it a more of a, you know, more collective description, I would say, um, so many of us feel disconnected from ourselves. And what I mean by that is, you know, not just in cliche, I'm disconnected from myself, but the tragedy is that we often don't even understand the challenge. You know the bash once said hast a means that the hester is beh when concealment is defined as concealment it's not so concealed when the concealment is concealed in other words it's revelation everything is normal then it's even a deeper concealment every person has a real real energy says that the world is recreated every single moment that means right now I am channeling a divine energy that is infusing and animating and vivifying my entire existence, spiritual, physical, psychological, emotional, of course, biological. And the most the greatest gift in life is to be in touch with that energy to be a to be a channel for that energy. I'm smiling because we spoke about being a channel before like but for that I really need to be connected to it. It's really connection with a very very deep essential self. And when I operate from that space, I can fulfill my mission in this world. I could connect deeply. I can love deeply. And all of Yiddishkite has this as the foundation. This is like the essence of everything. And I think many of us struggle with this. And it obviously comes out, you know, in a million different ways in a million different because if I don't have this, I must have something to compensate for this because the pain of this is is one of the deepest pains. is the pain of disconnect. So I need tremendous amounts of distractions based on how sensitive I am. If I'm more sensitive, my distractions need to be more dramatic and more glamorous. If I'm less sensitive, I can get away just, you know, with a few ruggal. >> Dr. Zimmerman, it is that your experience in terms of seeing patients and people who are going through challenges? So I think the the beauty of this and and why this is such a a pleasure for me aside for the privilege is that I came from a both very classic yeshiva muser kind of background and you know the balent was somebody who had stories about but wouldn't live the bal in in any way shape or form and psychologically it's hard to come to these exact terms what's interesting through my journey through yeshiva and then clinically is to come to this place and and I'll talk about it from a different angle from from the Muser perspective for a moment. One of the most impactful >> I'm sorry to interrupt. Basically what he's saying is just being nice about it is that I violated every rule of basic psychology. It was pure anecdotal my own spiritual imagination imposing itself on the zeitgeist of the generation. So now we're going to have a more professional articulation. And I confess I confess that if this was therapy I would say Rab was projecting that on to me. I I was not saying that but I'll talk one of the most impactful things for me is is Schlomma Voba who was a Mashk inro he wrote a piece for Sans Laniato hospital was run by the cloenberba and so the gdole actually wrote for the medical journal and he wrote a very complex piece called psychiatry vidas psychiatry and religion and in there he says if you wanted to develop a Jewish psychology it would be based on basic fundamental principle is yidus connection attachment or zoros estrangement and he says that foundation is yidus what said I can be connected to myself that sounds what does it mean connected myself he gives a very good example if you ever gotten really angry and you you did something you're really not proud of you afterwards you'll say I wasn't myself well well who were you have a sense that the real me the deeper me the spiritual core of me is something we can only say as Jewish Jewish mental health people was not aligned. Something took over. Something else took hold of me and I wasn't myself. Whereas when we're in alignment, we feel at ease with ourselves. We're comfortable. That means I really know myself. And that means I can integrate the part of me that's also a part that's the angry part, but that's not the defining characteristic of me. And when you start to get lost as to who am I? So people will often say the voice in my head is so critical. I have all these visions of I'm not good enough, I'm bad or I'm anxious and you have a sense that but somewhere in there there's a healthy core that I'm not accessing. And the flip side of that and and that's actually if we stay with that for a moment that's what Rula defined as Zorus means you have a elzor have a foreign strange god. So who's the strange god inside of you? That's that piece that speaks as the eye, but it's really taken over. It's a fake. It's a fraud. It's an impostor. When you're aligned with your true self, things flow naturally. You're in a state of health. When you're distant, you're not. And so many people today have lost their sense. They think that the impostor who's often full of shame or toxicity or negativity is the real self. And that like Rabbi W said leads to all sorts of different ways that we can't sit with ourselves or act out. >> Very fascinating both of what you just said. I'm curious for why we is the complications for someone truly understanding who they are or what their role is or how to channel themsel is that coming let's say for us is it the influences in America? Is it maybe perhaps a lack of maybe misra or proper understanding of of Tyra? Where is that coming from? >> I don't think we could be I don't I don't know that we can have a definitive answer for that. In a very general way, I would say it's coming from the fact that we've been uh for close to 2,000 years in gulus. um tremendous amount of suffering, tremendous amounts of persecution as a result of which we worked so hard to survive and even thrive. But it comes with a lot a lot of pain and suffering and the concealment of this world on a good day. You know the Gmorra says that the word comes from the word helm right the Hebrew word for the world is concealment. It's a very funny thing like we have no better word for the universe than concealment but it's it's it it nails it like the definition of existence the way we know it is there is a concealment and everybody has to confront a concealment right that's why vulnerability is so essential because if we're not confronting concealment we're not dealing with life we we we are not dealing with reality so there's a concealment inherent in the way Hashem created the world that's part of our work the balatanya says something amazing one of his discourses he says you know the gar the says based on someone who serves is called says the word means the service really comes from the one of the labors of shabas of shabas is right it's taking epidermis taking the the hide of an animal and developing it it's called a tanner so he says the whole purpose of life is to take the shame which is the name of concealment it's the name that it restricts the infinite inite expansive energy of you're actually like developing. You're opening it up. You're opening up the blockages. So it's it's we're all confronting this. We're all the biggest trauma is the trauma of birth which is a mal. So it's literally infinite literally infinite. It's not a joke. It's not a cliche. And it comes into a world where its identity is constantly being questioned. And whether it's nature and nurture and everything else, these are the factors. Of course, everyone then has their own individual struggles and the community issues and and as you said, you know, there could be misinterpretation of Tyra and there could be family dynamics and community dynamics and internal dynamics and that's the you know that's the chess board that Hashem puts me into. But now I have the I have a mission and I have the graceful opportunity to be able to be an to be able to open open things up. >> Dr. Zimmerman. >> So this is one of the real challenges for me being a a from mental health professional because the psychological arena almost views in some unhealthy way children as like a blank slate. You come in clean and and almost everything is nurture. You know, okay, maybe you get genetics, but that's also because something got messed along the way and now there's epigenetics and but fundamentally it's all about what happened to you. And obviously what happens to us is incredibly profound. The impact on children, on parents, on trauma, on on on Holocaust, on gullus for 2,000 years is huge. But often you'll you'll fail to see that there's something in some ways deeper. And what I what I referenced before that the way we come into this world from a Jewish perspective is not neutral. I have this infinite divine nishama. That's the true me. and I have this foreign stranger who's literally my trying to undo everything and and get me to believe all the sort of negativity and the bias. So it's not starting at a blank slate. It's starting from a place right and this is way way before gulla was external kayen and he you know act two scene two you have something that's internalized that that leads to murder very rapidly. So we have tremendous darkness built in and it has to correspond to that infinite light. In order for there to be free choice there has to be incredible darkness. So that template going back to the Yadid do model how aligned with my true essence my in will I be versus different that will be my own personal choice will have a huge impact my culture environment society my parents everything will move me closer to my true essence if I'm treated like a beloved divine being that'll move me in more alignment if I'm treated as a worthless piece of junk who's you know messing up my family or not a good in Yeshiva, it'll distance me and move me further away. And that's the hard integration. But I think really this is a philosophy that can really integrate both that both your environment and your DNA and your spiritual that you know this we're not I don't know when this will air but we're talking about this week you know Rifka is pregnant and one she's pulled to one way to to to negativity to the church one way to the base medish and and one of the nicest definitions of that I heard from Lubavage camp is you're not crazy you're pregnant with twins you're pulled in different directions. So, we have that as a template and then our experiences and our choices move that along the needle. And what we're really trying to help people do is get closer to their true essence, to their true core. And the flip side of that is that that's the greatest gift is that from a secular psychology perspective, let's say someone's really traumatized. They have 2,000 years of suffering. What are you rebuilding from? It's broken. From a Jewish perspective, your fundamental true essence is untaintable. It's unbreakable. We can have layer upon layer upon layer that distances you, but there's always a core to go back to. And I think that's the real synergy of, you know, the whatever is always talking about, what I'm always talking about is how do we get people to identify with the real self and connect there and that's where I think the magic happens. >> I could be wrong. I know only have 33 years of experience but it does seem like if looking at history of the world that that things are moving very fast now even just from technology for example and one of the nice things happening is there's Yiddishk is becoming more of a melting pot you know it's maybe maybe 100 years ago 500 years ago there was that's that kind of Judaism that that that's that kind of Judaism and there's a big overlap now um is there I'm curious why is there any negative aspect aspects that could be happening from that melting pot effect. >> I think uh it's a very very positive because ultimately in the Messiah reality and consciousness the complete unity is going to be revealed. It's unity between all of the Jewish people. It's unity between all the streams of Judaism. It's unity between all of humanity. It's unity between the whole universe. Right? of Malar's says the world will be filled with divine awareness like water covers the sea. So it's like an ocean and all of the details in the ocean are engulfed and encompassed by the divine oneness like the water which includes all of the life underwater. So it's a very very powerful tool. Of course, whenever we talk about a melting pot, you always have to be careful, not to melt. In other words, not to forfeit in order to flatter or to please or to be accepted. But so in that sense, a melting pot could sometimes have, you know, detrimental effects like a simple what we call assimilation. But if you mean by a melting pot, the ability for people to be able not to be stuck in stereotypes, to be able to have an expansive consciousness, we have to remember that every leaf, every squirrel, every cell, every atom, every neuron, every droplet of water, grain of sand, flake of snow, every star, black hole and tiny worm are all reflecting Hashem's oneness. So the moment we go into the frequency of a hashem of anoid mouad, everything is part of it. everything the light and the darkness. There was a big capitalis name was Rama Balefia. So he says it's a it's pretty intense. He says yud and v and hey is ver because ultimately as the mishna says in braas love hashem with all your heart the can also be transformed right which is the next step in this discussion that even the darkness is also part of a purpose. It's not just dark and you just get rid of it. You don't get rid of it. It's here to to be transformed and actually elevate you more. So the same is true with with with the with the entire universe. So in that ultimate vision, there's a search now. You see this search for unity. You see this curiosity, this inquisitiveness. People are not content with what they used to be content. Like and everything there's so it can become, you know, I could just be on my phone, you know, going from one one clip to another clip to another clip and just completely frazzled and disoriented. But I think the spiritual opportunity is there is such a uh powerful capacity to be able to grow in extraordinary ways. Somebody told me a good line actually was a woman who told me she heard it from a non-Jew. She said she was in Arizona and this Andrew said, you know, God has been expediting consciousness. >> And I liked it. God has been expediting consciousness. It's like get on the train cuz it's moving very very fast. like like we really have to we have to you know like grow up and it's it's a gift like the consciousness even of 2 years ago it's like where have you been living in the 1600s it's like boom it's powerful so to echo that I I I think listen obviously melting pot is always going to come with a challenge the healthier a person is the more they can handle different views the less ego involved they are so if you're not a threat to me So I can get to know you and understand you and appreciate you and integrate whatever is okay and I can also keep a boundary for whatever is not. But that takes tremendous health. The less healthy we are that becomes very dangerous potentially. Sadly I think they say I don't know where the original source is that the bigger the saddic can handle the bigger Russia. Right? Meaning because you're you're the bigger the person he he can he he he can take in and learn from everything. Right? Mayor was able to learn from a who went off completely. He was able to take he said he threw away the peel and he took whatever was remaining. And that ability to see the good and integrate that I think is a unique opportunity. Even even just the Torah, you know, like growing up learning uh Torah was totally foreign to me. and and with the with the internet and with Rewise podcasts and things like that. Um I I've learned quite a bit of Torah and and that that's something that's brand new, you know, and the ability to really tap in to such a broader perspective. But I think where is talking about that advancing consciousness, every time you have a real leap, you have tremendous risks because if you if you can't get on board properly, the the dangers are tremendous. And we're seeing people fall into like like rabies are just just totally disconnected scrolling away disconnected themselves family like kids are being raised by the back of a phone. But the flip side the conscious let's take AI AI is forcing almost redemptive consciousness because all the mundane tasks you know like my daughter is in college now like with things that 25 years ago when I was in college would take you six weeks you know you could literally have chat you'd be doing 30 seconds. It becomes a big question like what are we even do? You know for a while that's been a question like what is a lot of this for but now it's it's it's almost laughable and all the things that are not spiritual in nature that are just computational the machines are doing faster better more eloquently than any of us could and this is just the beginning. So what's going to remain is only what's really essentially human is the spiritual side everything else. So as you're being forced into consciousness, into spirituality, into the all the things that aren't just quantitative love and truth and connection and positivity and honesty and integrity and being able to separate the only thing that real humans have is what we call das isn't collection of knowledge. It's the deepest knowledge from within like how do I know I exist? Philosophically, it's almost impossible to answer that question. But deep inside of us, we have I'm I'm alive and I exist, right? So these truths that are deep within us, those are the ones that are going to come to the four and everything else will be total distraction. The ability to get lo you know whatever level we thought demian illusion fantasy existed even 5 years ago which we thought was unprecedented historically is now laughable. And I have people on the dark side communicating with AI, thinking it's real, taking its advice, getting into really, really problematic places. But on the flip side, the opportunity is to strip away all that's not of the deepest aspect of who we really are and what we could produce and pull towards that. And so these are incredibly opportune times. I I didn't anticipate AI coming up in the conversation but once we're here rio what's your take on AI? >> Yeah as as Dr. was talking um I was just thinking that it's majam's magnum opus is one of the most studied probably the most in history right and in yeshiva everything is raam and the end of the whole the whole mission literally the last the last chapter of the whole of these are his words okay verbatim there's going to come a There's going to be a time no hunger, no conflict, no jealousy, no negative competitiveness. The goodness will be so abundant and all delicacies like all luxurious things will be as common as dust. And now he asks, "So what are we going to do all day?" But so not even Jews, the entire world can only have one as it's not knowledge, it's intimacy. It's it's embodied connection. So the whole world is going to be immersed in embodied intimacy with Hashem. It's the only thing that AI can do. Like AI can do everything. They'll better pizza shops, better gas stations, better math, everything. Mish almost everything. What's the only thing they can do? intimacy with God, right? the divine experience which is the spirit the the nephesh and that's going to be so it's like written 850 years ago like he's literally describing this >> the the way the ra is explaining it does is AI similar in a way I know it maybe sound crazy to like malim is it is there a similarity there >> it's interesting that the ram in his guide to the perplexes philosophical work so he describes malim really as so that's why it's very interesting he describes it as forces of nature which are divine forces we call them forces of nature it's really just divine it's it's it's it's eclipsed it's it's channeled through nature and that's what he calls mal so all is any energy you tap take for example electricity electricity was around since the world was created but for 5,000 years much more than 5,000 years we didn't know about it right till 150 years ago the same is true with sound waves air waves the whole internet revolution all these things are not invented now just like Columbus didn't invent America he discovered America so we discover more and more of what Hashem has embedded into our our universe and we just create the Caleb the vessels to make use of it so radio was created the telegraph was created telegram was created the television was created cameras all these things which changed the entire world completely right it turned the world into a into a more unified place and now with the internet and with every day another technological revolution it's soon basically going to be revealed Everything is one. It's all the Z writes the Z writes famous and it says in the 600th year of the life of all the wells from below burst open and the windows of heaven opened and that's how the flood happened. So he says is in the that's what he writes in the year 5,600 years five which is which happens to be 1840 there's going to be an explosion of all the is all the in the world is going to explode and is of is going to explode and it's all going to be for the sixth for the end of the this is the sixth millennium 5600 for the for Shabas which is Shabas So what the is describing is that there's going to be a convergence between spiritual wisdom, divine wisdom and the wisdom of the world which are really one and this is all a preparation for transforming the world and nothing is excluded of that. Now like everything that is powerful there's choice >> right? So I could do anything with anything and some things can be used in very unproductive or even destructive ways. But it doesn't take away from the fact that the energy of it is really inviting us to uh go to a much much deeper place and it's all a preparation for absolute transformation. It's very exciting stuff. This very exciting some people are very pessimistic when they talk about this generation but I don't share that pessimism. Is is that because of like your labavidus background? Is that where it's coming from or personally? Is that >> probably the probably the energy of the labavba um and his uh I want to say impossible positivity that was radical in ways that are unfathomable. Okay. because he was a person who should have constantly spoken about the trauma of what the Jewish people went through like the whole generation that went through and he himself went through insane tragedy like so many other Jews of that generation and he would mention it of course and you could see his tears and his pain but there was something uh so positive and I think it's essentially Judaism it's it's the idea of amuna you know the idea the world is progressing this is not a mistake it's not random and even You know, his favorite line was readal. It's it's a it's a quote from Makus about somebody killing somebody by mistake with an axe. But he turned that into a a cosmic phrase that every in history is right every time I fall down it's just to get up much much higher. So he said the greatest of kalos are are hard and painful and tish is not but ultimately it's but but I think when we go into a very deep place we all know this in other words in our de deepest souls we know this like when when everything there was a a hostage that was that that was freed his name is or levy or levy so I watched an interview with him and he said something incredible you know some of these hostages they like teach you about god more than you could learn 50 years you know from the books because they were in the worst places and they should have been the most angry people. Anyway, he says first he was in a home in Gaza and he was in a room but there was a crack in the wall so he focused on the light that was coming in through the crack. That was his focus. Then they put him into a tunnel but there was an LED light. So he was focusing on the LED light. And then the kamas terrorist put him into a dark room where there was nothing, no cracks, no LED. And he says, "Then I found God. Then I found God, you know. So it's like when everything is stripped away, it's very painful. When everything is stripped away, what do you find? You don't have anything to hold on to. Nothing. No resources. No, no, no hope. No natural, you know, crutch that we all have in life. You know, I'm breathing. I can go to the pantry and get food. I have a car. I have a few dollars in the bank. I have a what? You have nothing. Nothing. We We don't We should never know what this means, right? And what did he find there? He found everything like so I think in the deepest deepest place like every soul knows this. >> So I I I'm hoping and aspiring to one day have the the positivity bias. >> Come join me. Join me. Um certainly that's where I think we all need to go. Um I find myself a little bit a darkness dweller. You know, I I sit with people a whole day who are are in in brokenness and and they are maybe on the journey to try to find that light, but in in their current space, they're in what or what Rabbi said, Hester Shabbah, that they're hidden and it's so dark that they don't even they don't see a place of light. And the flip side, in order to do what I do, you have to have unshakable belief that despite everything that they're experiencing and the pain and and we we're dealing with people who, you know, just today I'm dealing with people who are at the verge of ending their lives or not. And yet what keeps them going is that there is something in you that knows and is and is connected at the deepest level to something more. helping people get there is an incredible privilege, an incredibly monumental task at the same time. And and that's so on one hand why I said you read, you know, you have to go down the way we we understand that Jewish wise is not a euphemism. We're going to have people suffer in unfathomable ways and and in some ways even what we've been through Holocaust, pagrums, communists, you know, are awful. And we're seeing today despite all the luxury and the privilege that a lot of the internal damage to the site, to the lack of identification, the the the pain and the shame of the self is really really profound and dark. And I think in that way my solace is that that's a messianic thing that we're going to have to go inward now. It's not just an external forces hurting us. But inwardly we're going to have to go into the darkest places and find light there. And that that's not just that's people lived experiences of tremendous pain and suffering and tragedy and bringing and and I think that that's our job and that's you know to to go back to you know to lamp light to light them connect them really to show them that they have that light within them that the divine is in there but we need a lot of help to do that and we're having way too many people have to go through such incredible darkness to find that and and that's one of the real challenges that I face every day is like what could we be doing or more or different so that maybe that positive messianic vision will will will be here and that's certainly a a challenge that I experience very viscerally it's very important I think just one point to zoom in because very often you know in the attempt to give as you called it we bypass darkness you know we say you And we have and we have quotes from everybody, you know, from we have >> whatever. And it's all beautiful and nice stuff. And if it's working for you, amazing. But it it's often really about bypassing. It's it's a fear to go into certain places. And a lot of us suffer because of that. because it's often the the happiness I'm looking for is on the other side, you know, of the fear that I've been trying to avoid so much and I need to be able to face that. And real amuna means that God is present in the darkness, right? We can go into the darkness and it's not going to feel like light. That's real. You know, there's embodied amuna and there's a conversation, you know, a nice about amuna. Nice amuna is hashem is good. Holocaust pums. Okay, you just say we don't understand or sins, whatever. But so many people in this generation, it seems like were chosen to go through the embodied journey. And the embodied journey, you're going into very very serious places. It's not so simple. Like those those who don't understand what what Dr. Zimman said and what I'm saying, you know, but if your children are going through this and you're playing dumb, this is a very big mistake. like we have to come down from our high horse because the journey towards redemption is not a simple journey of just like everything is beautiful. It's really discovering the oneness from the deepest places of fragmentation. And it's a very emotional it's a very emotionally intense experience. So when we're talking about real positivity, it's a positivity that can face everything. It's not just, you know, I'm a positive guy. I smile. I have a good sense of you. We'll make a couple of jokes. We'll bypass and kougal is here. Let's just eat cougle. Let's take the schnaps and we're good. We're not talking about that, you know. It's very very important. >> Yeah. The way you're you're describing it sounds that that like this shallow or avoiding the the reality of what's actually going on is leading towards disaster. Like we you even mentioned before we even started recording about like people I was asking you just a bunch of questions naturally. I'm like oh I want to hear from you and you said this is what people want. There's that like >> maybe it's 2025 20 >> authenticity. Authenticity everyone I can't say everybody. People are sick and tired of fakeness. And fakeness I don't mean someone lying to you. Everybody understands that fakeness I mean even subtle fakeness. Even talking about Hashem that's not embodied is fakeness. It says in this it's not fakeness that I'm lying. I'm quoting what it says. Tyrus emis but fakeness in the sense that I'm not living it. It's not in my nervous system. My nervous system is freaked out. My nervous system is filled with anxiety. My nervous system is I'm pretty miserable without my distractions. Right? We're talking about authenticity is like to live it to be what you are to really be it. Stop preaching. Stop the speeches. Stop another It's all good. It's nice. It's beautiful. I do it myself. I don't stop talking. So, I'm I'm not like judging anybody. I I'm the first one. I'm talking to myself first and foremost. But even especially with teenagers and the youth, you know, the moment you like you look them in the eyes and you talk about their real struggles, you know, they all come to life. There's like in the room like this in the room and it's true with it's true with it's true with it's true with it's true with it's true with whatever you're learning right embodied Judaism. And that's what I mean by authenticity. It's it's critical. Like this is really this is really where it's at. And all of us all of us, you know, for many generations without any judgment, you know, we could stand behind we could stand on the platform, you know, behind the veil and just issue forth whatever we wanted to issue forth. You know, Arav told me where is that that you know that would get up speak two hours and the whole community was there. It's like good luck today. You know, ADHD on steroids like after 12 seconds. You know, I'm saying it's it's it's you know, we could lament it. We could lament it. Nobody has its flesh. Nobody has theirs. Nobody has covered. We could do that. I think that's just uh maybe it's true, but I think it's just a shallower it's a shallower perspective and it allows me to remain stuck in my uh egoic mind. M >> and again this is a tension because I think there are elements of that that are real. There's a a weakening of a generation. They don't have the certain my grandparents didn't ask how they felt postw war. They they just did. If you ask my grandma how he felt. There was no sillier question you could possibly ask him. And that's what rebuilt >> our world. And in some ways we struggle with that because there was an almost ignoring of feelings. An active ignoring understandable beyond understandable. like how could you go into the feelings there? And sometimes we get too into the feelings, but we're talking about getting into authenticity besides the soul level. Like I I think what we're talking about is like says I think one of the things that I try to do every day, but certainly in my book and everything else, just be real with the kid. Stop pretending that everything is okay. Stop pretending that we have all the answers. Stop pretending that oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh oh yeah yeah yeah you'll think it'll be good it'll be good and every oh just a quick sound bite a little WhatsApp status be genuine I I said it this week it slipped out of my filter and now maybe I'm doing it consciously and I'll get more trouble but you know I've been through the Jewish publishing world now there's no chance that the Torah would be published today no chance nobody would publish it too open it's too graphic it talks about leadership failures everywhere there's not a single person that lets go and just keep it as a as a as a god though, right? It's explicit about things that we all have to skip like like literally no publishing house in the firm world would touch it. And I think we just have to go back to real authenticity to to to share, right? That there's no more open Torah than no limud, no expression than the honesty of ups and downs, of failures. You're writing a book about creation. You don't make 12 hours into complete chaos and fail, right? Every single person there is brought out their humanness, their beauty and their struggle because and again this goes back to the core. Hashem does not need angels. He has them all on high. Whether they're tim they're not I don't know. Okay? But I know that that's not what he needs from us. He needs us in our most authentic humanist. What it means to have authentic unit is to have those conflicting drives and the confusion and the distraction and the inter and everything come together. And I need to be able to be there and real of the distress I feel of the absence of Hashem's presence of I feel of the questions I have of the confusion of the of the needing an expanded place to go and somebody to see that and be honest about it instead of just talking from on high to me. And that's something that we're we're really lacking. You know, it's coming back in my head actually I guess from my yeshiva days was very profound is that was standing above the people gave a a nova that better shape up. It was yum kipper shabis in the bas mikdash and khisro picked up stones and stoned him to death and later that was the blood that boiled and almost a million Jews got until the blood stopped boiling taken to task on some level say he was standing above meaning has to be said verbatim but somewhere in the sub subconscious he was I'm giving you he wasn't on the level and that led to a pickup in claustrol and a reaction that was terrible and caused catastrophe. But are attributing that because when we're up high and we're here and we have all the schmuzm and the the answers that's and the ability to get to the level of the people to be authentic to be authentic about our struggle to be authentic about I don't have all the answers. I yes I have this sense I've worked through this. I I I want to share I want to be a channel to give this to you because maybe that's why Hashem put me through what I went through to share that with you. Then beautiful things happen and we see that we see that in in therapeutic spaces we see that when with pine when people are are not just giving a surface where they're where they're getting into the guts of this and even that you could go guts and you could start talking about and bri and I and and maybe there are people who really really know what that is and they really I've listened to a lot of shirum on that and I still quite confused when we go there and then there are shirum that are talking to your real lived experience and those you feel expand you feel even if you're in darkness but you feel you're hooking up to Torah ems to an honest way to live not theory and that's transformative and and I think we could do a lot more of that I think it started in a tremendous way the last bunch of years but I I think there's so much more where we can do where we're integrating where we don't need um just to look to the outside for the answers everything today and it's good for my business go to a therapist Therapy is a huge place. It's crucial. Okay, I'm all for it. We have to have a Torah, a philosophy, but much more than a philosophy, a lived experience where the people in our lives are sharing that with us on the ground in that space with us. And that transforms the landscape. My grandfather was in the Holocaust and of course I grew up and he was he he mentioned it and he spoke about it and maybe because I was a kid or maybe because you know I'm a grandchild of a Holocaust survivor I believed him and never doubted of course but okay the the guy they really hated us and it was a very bad time and only recently with October 7th did I finally somewhat again I don't really understand him what he went through but really understand like wow like that hatred that I didn't really see. I mean there's always anti-semitism but not really for me growing up. Is that anti-semitism that's coming out? Is that part of this authenticity that you're talking about? >> Interesting question. I don't I don't feel that I'm the authority to be able to give a decisive answer to this, but it's it's very possible that this is a time where there's a lot of um a lot of clarity like you know in in Kabala there's the word right there from the word to clear things up the and it's a painful moment because when you separate you see what's good and what's evil in very clear terms but it's essential to healing identifying the good and identifying the evil and And it's almost feels like that everywhere in the world like the evil is being spit out. It's like look at me. Face me. It's almost like today you have to take a position like some years ago you know you could be a par Jew, right? You could be a humanitarian Jew and a progressive Jew and still very Jewish and proud and I love Israel and I love my people and I love me too and I love Black Lives Matter and I love the feminist movements and I love progressiveness. I love everybody because I'm a lover. Right? Last few years it's like what are you a lover of? You're a lover of kamas. You're a lover ofaha. You're a lover of nasala. What are you a lover of? What are you a lover of burning babies alive? It challenges people to like who are you? Who are you? This is good. This is evil. It's a very in many ways is a very healthy healthy moment in history. The denovi denil says that safer denil says comes a time where like these are all words of refinement, clarity, decisiveness. Even within myself, you know, when I can identify this is my trauma talking, Rabbi Yway, this is your trauma. This is your trauma. This has nothing to do with your soul. It's part of you. It's part of your schlick. It's going to help you ultimately, but it's your trauma. It's your trauma. Fight, flight, f, freeze, whatever it is. everybody in their own, you know, give me more compliments. I'm waiting for the standing ovation. I need more validation. You think this was a good uh show. You think a Mim is going to invite me back again? Whatever. You know, everybody in their own way, but and the moment you can identify trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma, great amazing, right? That's that's half of the work. Now, you have to actually tune into the other parts. So, there's a very big beer in the world. And for the Jewish people, I think it's also it's painful. Let's again I'm I don't want to you know make believe that this light comes without darkness. It's very painful what so many people have been through the levels of loss and suffering and anguish especially in Israel. There's no question about that. Right. There's also a tremendous opportunity now because it's almost like God is summoning the Jewish people to the front center stage. Can you actually tell the world who you are? Like it's not a secret anymore. Let's face it, truth. I grew up in New York. I mean, you grew up where? >> In Flappage, New York. >> Okay. We all grew up in New York, right? The Holocaust and all the pagrums were at best stories. Very important story. They were all stories, right? I I I read a lot of Jewish history. BDNetski 164849, right? What they did there is what they did on October 7th. It's like all the stories of Han called Yavul. He describes what happened in 1648 1649 graphically with with pregnant women. This is I don't want to I don't want to get into the details but this is what they did. So it's like wow. So this whole this whole notion of we're finally integrated the American dream. Suddenly it's a joke. The only document that got it right about the Jewish people is like you're God's people. You're a blessing to the world. You're chosen for this. The world is basically going to be obsessed with you. Who thought that today the world will be obsessed? There's prosperity. There's a melting pot. There's integration. Jews have done the best they ever did in the United States and other parts of the world. Let it go. Suddenly October 7th, Harvard University, Columbia University, Yale, Oxford, these are the places of enlightenment, of progressiveness, of tolerance, no bigotry in these places. From these places came the worst venomous sin. That means that in the DNA of the universe, there is a feeling. There's something called the Jewish people. I don't care if you studied in Harvard 100 years. The DNA, there's something called the Jewish people. That's not a secular scientific fact. That's purely purely the spiritual truth of the creator of the world. What does that tell us about ourselves? It tells us about our power. So, it's an incredible time. I wish Israeli leaders and Jewish leaders in general would understand this. It's basically the whole world is pleading with you to tell them what you heard from God at Sinai. And that would be incredible. But we still have a lot of shame that we have to heal. This is the Jewish people's trauma. We have a lot of shame. Internal internal shame. Anti-semitism has been directed against ourselves. We call it self-hating Jews. But even those who don't call themselves self-hating Jews have a lot of shame. I think I think it's a little scary. You asked the question about like authenticity. It's a scary idea that is this the authentic world is this what they really think about us from okay it was one thing kamas okay the terrorist organization Harvard Yale the Jews on street now mayor elections where in in European countries Jews are afraid to walk around and here we're not sure where where this is all going so to have that authentic where where we lost some of the fakeness they for like years growing up in Brooklyn post a was it was stories okay we heard about the the non-Jews the go okay how How much interaction do we really have? We thought, okay, that was Europe. That was Germany. We're okay. They're pretty nice to us. And it's a little scary to think about what their authentic beliefs about us are now that they're okay to say it publicly and to chant it and to to walk around and proclaim it. So, and I I think we we'd be lying if we didn't talk about that. Most Jews that I I encounter have a certain underlying distress, fear, unknown what what's happening. And especially you hear echoes of 1930s like like that's not something like you want to just ignore, you know, that's putting many people back on their phones and and and and I think so many of us are are tuned in to the Israeli war and everything because deep in our psyches, we're really plugged into this. And on one hand, it is it it's it's quite scary, I think, for for me in particular. The authenticity piece was complicated particularly in the psychological world because here we were the psychologists have it right. They're empathic. They're kind. They're helping heal all the people. And so it was one thing Hamas. It was one thing the rabbit anti-semites. Okay. The extreme right, the extreme left, the academics. And we were waiting for the the psychology community is going to come and one after the next the most prominent voices in trauma in addictions in pain and suffering aligned fully completely with kamas and that really set my mind on a very strong quest. What? What? Slmer called me. He called me one day. He's like, "Gabber mate, Bessel Vander. These are the gurus of PTSD, of trauma. Everybody's repeating their their their shittas." He's like, "They're all pro kamas." >> I'm just saying he shared this with me. >> And and and so that to me brought me to a very profound Jewish place. You see, in Judaism, we have something called the middle, a balance. So part of this beer but is to be balanced has to be harmonized. So, so just very briefly we have on the right side we have we start with everything the whole world is about kindness loving giving openness but if you don't have boundaries you don't have right and wrong so there are two personalities that represent kindness gone astray in Judaism there are lot who learned in Aram's house and he did terrible things within his own family in the name of kindness to guests he subjugated his family to the worst kind of abuse to be good to guests so complete distortion and And the other one was Ishmal got but he didn't know how to temper it with limits with with boundaries with right and wrong. The opposite side was gur limits boundaries discipline right without the counterbalance you have an as both as and have one thing in common killed Jews. Okay they have come from both extreme and we see it now in the modern day we call it the far right and the far left. What are the one thing they agree about? Anti-semitism. We have something called terferis is the middle that of course it starts all with but you have to have boundary. You have to have limits. You have to have right or wrong. You can't just pick oh they're weaker. They don't have an army. Their you know resistance is okay when people are occupied. No. Why they occupy? Who's occupied? What are you talking about? No. Okay. It's a slogan. They're that's it. They're the victim. you're the aggressor. There's no balance. There's no das. There's no sense of right and wrong. It's just compassion unbridled. And when you have compassion for those who are what we call zorum, who are evildoers, you end up having a lack of compassion for everybody. And we're seeing the most heinous things from from the most loving, kind, liberal people. And sadly, most of the Jews who are especially who are not observant of Torah, they aligned very neatly with the academics and the liberals and the psychology world because it's full of and that worked for a while. Tik Ol fix the world. We love people. We wanted all the people who wanted to make peace in Gaza and then all of a sudden you got to wake up that no no no there are people there's this darkness and it has to be clarified what is evil what is good what is bad what is terrorism what is righteousness and and what Rab said I think that's a really hard calling for us Jews globally is to step up in the moment despite our fear and trespass isn't I'm not nervous we could be nervous we have to have been We have to constantly work on that and we have to say despite that the call of the hour is real authenticity. That means there's a right and wrong. You might have to kill a lot of people in a war who some of them might in theory be innocent but that's what happens in a war for survival. You have to have there's a right and a wrong. It's not all they're trauma vict they might suffer a lot of trauma. What's the origin? What's the cause? You have to protect people. And what we saw is a complete breakdown of academia and the psychology world because they don't have a god. They don't have spirituality. They don't have soul. They don't believe in free will. All they believe is an oppressor victim narrative. And trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma without a counterbalance of something that you can hook back into that's right or wrong. And that is on its way to causing devastation. We thought it was one thing, you know, with the with what they did to the trans. Okay, we're we're sadik. We're helping all these kids feel right. kill who knows what calamities were. We'll find out in 20 years that the the that where that compassion landed people and now we saw it most graphically where literally all the trauma guru not all aligned with >> listen the says ine the genesis of all wisdom is the fear of god that remains true for philosophy science physics cosmology psychology ology and any other wisdom in the world. Psychology is a profound but is if you don't have you become God. It's not like nobody is God. You become God. Your sensitivity becomes God. Your trauma becomes God. Your ideas become God. You replace God with another God. And then it's a disaster. Remember, you know how many academics supported Stalin? Both my parents come from Russia. The suffering. People don't know about Stalin because Hitler, you know, took the the spotlight. Stalin killed more people than Hitler. He killed close to 50 million people. You're talking about most evil, one of the most evil men in history, right? And he was a leader for many years. He was a leader from 1924 till 1953. And yet millions of Jews and non-Jews, especially of the youth and until against were of Hitler, of Stalin. When Stalin died, they were sobbing in the Soviet Union. You're talking about a mass murderer and and how could they support this the system means that there's like you like said there's right, there's wrong, there's a system, there's something called truth. There's something called truth. Our yearning in life is to be able to touch the truth, to get close to the truth, to become channels for truth, to be able to find the truth inside of us. But there's a humility there. You know when you don't have truth because there's no you're hashem then I'm I'm the truth you're the truth your feelings are the truth my feelings are the truth so if my feelings sound better la you know and that that's that's a very confusing element that's why and I I think it's very helpful actually for everybody in the world of mental health because it shows you that mental health and and the involvement of mental health could be a great blessing but if it's divorced from your hashem in the literal translation of awe of Hashem, it can become a catastrophe literally, right? You have your people very very developed in the mental health field. Actually, they they created trends, right? They they they changed paradigms and some of them did amazing studies that were breakthroughs in understanding of of human nature and human development and and human challenges. And yet there's no year hashem. And therefore the same people can become the supporters of of of Nazis of of people who are burning babies alive. Like who heard of such a thing? How does that happen? But that's what it is. So it's such a it's such a lesson to all of us. You know mental health is here to serve everything. We're here to serve. We're here to serve. And that's the greatest to serve to find out what the truth is. And that's what makes people happy ultimately. Also, I'm just uh re-emphasizing some of these points or why we just talked about to serve. So, actually, you know, so many people today are struggling with anxiety, stress, this when I'm not in alignment. So, then how popular am I? How's this talk going to go? Right? Okay. I'm sitting next to my wife. How am I doing? What's happening? Okay. How's my tie? Right? Tie is beautiful. But that but and here's what's really cool. >> And now I'm projecting again. >> What's really cool about that is no matter how many outside voices you'll hear if you're not in service, your inner ego, your inner traumas, what will it say? Okay, he's trying to be nice to me. Doesn't right all that chatter. And one of the best ways to actually tap into health is to shift out. Okay, this I I have all that noise. I have that pain. I have that insecurity. But what's my role here? So if I focus right now into service, I'm talking with you. We're trying to share some of what we what we've experienced with others. So in that space, the all the all the buzzing and tide, all the negative energies, all the fears quiet, not perfectly, but they start to fade out. And then I when I'm plugged into service, I'm a channel for just let it go through me. my experience what Hashem has put me through and my sel what I'm saying should just go I could feel it immediately I'm okay the second and it could happen split seconds I could think right now okay how's the camera picking up on that angle and I start feeling tension competition anxiousness perfection everything starts coming and there's a constant pivot I could go into that external zorus that estrangement from my true self into all how many likes and how many hits and how many this and who how impact and I could Shay how much impact and how important and how deep and profound and my ego is having a field day and I'll feel right away I'm not in alignment I'm not okay I'm in I'm in a I'm in a certain tension space now the outside person doesn't know I have to know that about myself and the closer I get to serve it's quiet it's pleas there's an absence of all the noise you're just where you're supposed to be and even tasting that for a second and many of us had that if you've ever not thought about what you're doing. You were just plugged into what you're doing. It's in in the secular world it's called flow, but this is much deeper than flow. But we talking about flowing through as a channel. When you're channeling just Hashem's energy, what he put you here through, there's no neurosis. There's no illness. You're okay. You don't have to even wait just for Mia. We're waiting for Msiah. But you could have a taste of that gula right here, right now. And the second you get out, you have all the tensions of 2,000 years of oppression and gullis and trauma and issues and this and my biology, my everything is on stage. And that's something that I think people could start to get a sense of when am I okay? When am I healthy and when am I full of whatever tension, fears, anxiety and that's something that I think is very profound as a person can feel that an embodied way is why I said that's that's not that takes that whole idea of channel and that Hashem spoke through Mosh's throat, right? These extraordinarily lofty concepts, we need them to come into our our sense of self and each, you know, as as as struggling, as very human, as deeply affected and wanting, loving material things and fame and all that stuff we are. You could tap into the soul and you could feel it. And when you're there, you're not ill. You're healthy. It's beautiful. We said a lot of really big ideas that I'm going to have to kazer over and review because there's a lot said here. I want to just end off on one note. We we we spoke a lot about understanding ourselves and tapping into the MS and authenticity and reality. Maybe this is a little a little off subject, but I think it's it's something that I think there's a lot of parents watching. If there's one practical thing, again, I know there's it's an unfair question because there's a trillion practical things, but if there's one practical thing a parent watching could do for their children today, what would you suggest that they do? >> There's a beautiful interpretation of the Melik. Are you asking for something practical? But this is practical. It just came into me. The Melik was the Melik of Student of the Mod of Mis. He writes and paras told us it's just galdic that right you mentioned the pregnancy of right she doesn't know that there's twins and she's agitated she's why am I so she goes to search with hashem so basically it means most say she wants to find out from hashem what's happening yeah that's how rashi explains in others he says something very different he says he doesn't know she doesn't know that there are twins so she thinks it's one child and the child is basically a split personality. When they come to monotheistic centers, right, the child is gravitating to go out and when they come to pagan monasteries, the child is gravitating and kicking. So, she's like, "Oh my god, this kid is really messed up. There's no identity, no conviction, no spine. There's no self. There's no sense of self. Who am I? He doesn't know. I'm here. I'm there. I'm He's just running from distraction to distraction. Why? And how can this child ever receive the message of right which is all about oneness they're not shy to that but not to find out what's happening with the child. She says oh my god my child is basically mirroring back to me my own fragmentation. So she goes to search for Hashem. She says I need to find God in my life because my child is basically manifesting the parts of me that I never dealt with. My inner wounds are being mirrored back to me through my child. If this is what my child is suffering, I need to go find God once I just to find I need to find God. I need to heal. And once I heal my child, so that's when she's told you're actually pretty good off. But there's twins. There's like one is real. There's actually authenticity in your system. It's fine. Yakov knows who Yakov is. As of knows who is. It's a very powerful piece of advice because what did you ask? What can we do for our children? I think the deep one of the ma most amazing things we can do for our children is go inward when we can really show up in our homes from a place of deep deep regulation serenity presence very deep I'm not talking about smiling externally because children feel your energy your nervous system your subconscious but when I could really find God if Shabas is making me blissful If Yiddish guide is blissful for me, not for my child. My child hates yeshiva. My child hates the system. My child hates everything. My child thinks this is a corrupt religion and a cult. Got it? I got it. And now I want to know what do I think subconsciously. Okay. What does Tati really really feel? Not what he says cuz he's the president of the shul and he's being honored at the dinner, but deep down, you know, what is it really love? And when we can do that internally, the energy that we exude is completely different. >> Beautiful. I >> I would be remiss in in really changing that in any way. I will say one thing going back to you know we come full circle was some of one of the most brilliant findings for me in psychology. is a lot of projection that really like a projection screen you know the lights here and you push it onto the screen and what happens with that is really my stuff I'm but I'm seeing my stuff projected over there so we thought wow projection was really new but if you go back and you can go back the bala in Balmpa's term they call it the magic mirror whatever you're seeing over there is just what you're emanating from yourself look at it as a mirror in the Bali Musa world they call it a magic lantern you think you're shining over there no no turn it this way and you'll Fine. So, but that that that's it. You have to go inwards. We're always trying to influence by doing by things say do, right? You influence by being and and that's real work. And there's no I wish there was a onestep quick shortcut to that. I'll say two things that are a little bit maybe more practical because person say I'm not regulated. Shabas doesn't I you know it's been 35 40 years and Shabas I'm not seeing Shabas and my kids that's why they hate it. Okay. What do I do? So I think the first step we go back to authenticity be real about that. I struggle with shab you know there are parts of shabas that are amazing parts not because what happens is when we give the mirror shabas is beautiful and mean while the kids picking up the message I don't know shabas is tensionfilled his whole internal world is now confused. So at least one thing you could do is be honest so that the mirror that he's seeing at least is not a funhouse mirror. It's not giving him all sorts of mixed messages. He's getting genuine and you could be honest about the struggle. You know, I struggle with minion or I really connect to this this mirrors, right? And and the more organic and honest it is, the more it'll resonate because again, they don't need us to be perfect, but they do need us to be real and to show up. And instead, what we're doing is we're running around putting on a show or distracting. And so they they're ending up confused or sort of neglected. So that's one thing. For those who are a little bit more bold, you can go ask your children or your spouse for one thing that you could be doing a little bit better that would make things more pleasant for them. Don't ask for everything because you you'll get overwhelmed and you'll go into a sham ash shame trauma spiral like there's no tomorrow. And and actually try to work on that and they'll all have a list. Everyone has a list because we all bring our stuff. But I but and I think the root of what we're really talking about is the healthiest people I know are not people who don't have internal darkness and didn't go through trauma this and that that the people who know it own it and integrate it and that that means right when I'm agitated or I'm stressed out of Shabas and I'm pretending that everything is beautiful I'm stressed I need a moment I'm not regulated let me take some time I'm sorry I yelled at you about the mixer but Really that had nothing to do with you as we can. You need to be able to hold that pregnant with twins. You need to be able to hold your stuff. So you have to know that fundamentally the essential you is healthy, beautiful, divine and that can allow you again you don't have to be an angel. You're going to have all this mix. That just means that's what Hashem custom designed for you to be your challenge today. So instead of running from it, you could say okay let me be informed about it because that just means what do I have to do today and today might be that I have to start my preparation 10 minutes earlier because last week I was completely frazzled right and it becomes very practical if I could be honest most of the time what happens is the false self says you can't be honest has to be great right you're not okay look how bad you are if you go back and say that's the negativity that's trauma or that's the elar that's the sahara you can come back to what's my authentic Okay, my authentic could tap back in. I could own that. I have that struggle. So, what is my challenge right now to be real? Maybe five minutes more of the suda is a little bit more pleasant. Maybe I say less deto because my kids check out and I ask them how their weak was. It doesn't there's no custom design answer when we're being authentic. And that authenticity, if we could be more authentic by holding ourselves, what's the best modeling then? What do our kids constantly see? You don't beat yourself up. You're not okay. You're disregulated. So all the things you say are what we call you you speak them. When we can actually embrace our imperfections and be human and make mistakes and pick ourselves back up. So all the schmus of you you fall down, you get back up become real. But so often we're so afraid to show up like where I said be vulnerable and say this is where I'm at. I want to be there for you. This is what I have to offer right now. This is the real me. When you have that, that's real connection. That's real authenticity. That's transformative for everybody. >> Robert Jacobson, Dr. Zimmerman, thank you so much for doing this. >> Thank you. >> This class is brought to you by the yeshiva.net. Please help us continue the classes. Make even a small contribution at ww.theshiva.net/donate.