The Jewish Story: Levi Eshkol – A New Face of Leadership

better pass boldly into that other world says James Joyce in the full glory of some passion then fade in withered dismal E with age well the other way to say that is it's better to burn out than fade away and I'm looking to go full-bore until I stop cuz I'm Rob Mike foyer and this is the Jewish story [Music] episode 24 lady s coal a new face of leadership you know it's truism of the politics and maybe even of life in general it's bad business always comes home to roost and in Israeli politics of the 50s in the early 60s the bad business s ik b sh in hebrew was the LaVon affair now you might recall this story from way back in episode 13 and if you do you probably remember that I warned you then it was far from over it all began with operation Susannah that false flag operation run by these Israeli military intelligence which was meant to prevent Britain from pulling out of the Canal Zone it was a dismal failure if you recall and another step on the road toward the Sinai war now susannah failed to produce the desired chaos in Egypt and never even came close to toppling Nacho's regime which was its kind of pie in the sky hope but it sure did bring down ben-gurion in the end back in episode 13 we saw the initial political fallout in Israel how the ocean dori committee that was set up by the government to investigate the responsibility for such a messy operation was faced with a tangle of contradictory testimonies from chief of staff Moshe on to the Director General of the Defense Ministry Shimon Peres and of course defense minister Pincus LaVon and not only were their testimonies contradicting but there was a paper trail that was far from helpful in establishing who was exactly responsible for ordering a covert operation which ended with the execution of two Israeli agents motion Marzuki and SH will ours on a chemin comme de mama in the end the committee didn't conclude that Defense Minister LaVon had given the order but rather that he was nonetheless officially in charge of all intelligence operations and he was forced to resign much to the dismay of Pincus LaVon but now it seemed that nothing could stop ben-gurion and his young Protege s-- he was defense and Prime Minister Furyk all right up through the Sinai War Moshe Dayan maintained his position as chief of staff and really became a national military hero in the Sinai war and we'll see more of that when we get to 1967 and Shimon Peres we saw as the architect not only of the French arms connection but the Israeli nuclear program as well and of all of them was the last man standing in Israeli politics so in 1958 during the celebrations of the first decade of statehood a decade in which ben-gurion by the way had held the post of Prime Minister for more than eight of the ten years we get an insight into his thinking when he asked him a pie party leader Fritz Naftali whether the pie was a democratic or autocratic organization and since my pie at this point was really synonymous with the state's institutions you could say it was a question about the country as a whole and the answer ought to sound an alarm whether you're a student of history or an observer of present-day politics ben-gurion he replied the movement accepts everything you suggest in the most democratic way so the steamroller kept going in in 1959 but I went to the elections for the fourth Knesset with the slogan he became the cicada say yes to the old man and they took 47 seats the most they'd ever achieved in the election was followed by some of the incidents we already discussed in previous episodes the reparations agreement with Germany which though controversial certainly strengthen Israel's standing both economically and in international politics the kidnapping and trial of Adolf Eichmann the beginning of an internal reckoning with the Holocaust the struggle with the American administration around Israel's nuclear aspirations and through it all the old man had his hand firmly on the helm with everyone accepting his decisions in a most democratic manner it seemed that he was at the height of his power everyone loved him except the opposition of course now you may know maybe have even said it here before that one of ben-gurion 's iron laws of politics in particular of coalition formation was without a root and without Maquis now Maquis is the Israeli Communist Party and by the way if you believe Benny Ganz's commitment not to include the Arab joint list in his coalition there still beyond the pale after all joint list chairman I'm an Oda is actually the head of the hah - party the core of which is Maki the Israeli Communist Party now if you want a little bit of a discussion by the way as an aside of what's coming up in Israeli politics how we got there and where we might head there's two spaces left on my webinar you can get them if you sign up now send me an email Rob Mike foyer at gmail.com or personal message me on Facebook I'll send you the details meanwhile this rule of engery ins is iron law of coalition formations without Haroon without machi kept the far left out and of course hey rude was what he called the far right the party headed by none other than Menachem bacon underground leader of the year goon who banger inconsistently denounced as a fascist now beggin will at least begin his process of reintegration into the political mainstream before this episode is over you'll have to wait till the upcoming elections to see if the same is true of Maki so in 1960 when the fourth Knesset convened was mop I solidly at the helm it seemed that the old man was unassailable but just like if the truism that bad business always comes home to roost so - it's a fact that you can't run a democratic country as your personal fiefdom forever because ben-gurion may have forgotten the esic beach that bad business but the same couldn't be said of Pincus LaVon he still felt he'd taken the fall for the adventurism of ben-gurion and his protege Zion in Peres back there in the early 50s and so when late in 1960 falsifications were actually discovered in certain documents that have submitted the Olsen dori Commission all heck began to break loose at the time LaVon was serving as the secretary-general of the East Road route the general Labor Federation of Israel's a very powerful position and one that being green had helped him get basically in compensation for losing the defense ministry but it wasn't enough LaVon wanted to clear his good name and so when these new revelations came to light he went directly to ben-gurion and demanded that the Prime Minister publicly absolved LaVon of any wrongdoing turned out that one of the primary witnesses against him had flat-out lied and falsified these documents but ben-gurion despite the evidence was unwilling to do so instead he tried to shift the blame and insisted that only a judicial hearing could decide on lavon's innocence LaVon refused that option for his own reasons and instead he took the matter straight to the Knesset Foreign Affairs and defense committee and his testimony there basically changed the nature of Israeli public discourse to this very day because what LaVon did was paint a picture of plotting and subterfuge in the defense ministry and in the Prime Minister's Office he claimed that even though Ben green was technically in retirement in the Negev at the time the LaVon affair he was still running the ministry by remote through Shimon Peres and furthermore LaVon claimed that Perez chief of staff must die on and ben-gurion remember then a private citizen were engaged in what essentially amounted to a private war intelligence gathering retaliation raids in covert ops like operation susana all of which was done without the knowledge or certainly approval of he himself in cost LaVon then Defense Minister lass and perhaps most damning lavota cues Ben green and his supporters of pinning that dirty business on him as part of a larger plot to bring ben-gurion out of his self-imposed exile and negative and back to the leadership of the country now these were all of them bombshells they were stirring mud that went right to the foundations of the country and sure enough the committee's discussions almost immediately to the press and the vast majority of them cited with LaVon if you ask why the answers are somewhat obvious much of the press had some score to settle with ben-gurion and his boys as they were called it's impossible to have been a politician for that long and not earned the hatred of the media others simply delighted in scandal in general and they were particularly reveling in an opportunity to watch and publicize this area of what they call the twilight of the Gods right the fading mystique of the founding generation and it's a question that we won't dwell on right now but it's worth contemplating on your own why is it that people take such a joy in caring down their old masters okay so political chaos now erupts throughout the country certainly but particularly within the map I party Ben Gurion of course denies any wrongdoing and demands a commission of inquiry which will now clear his name but the party leadership feared that such a process would only uncover more dirt and further weaken them in the eyes of the public after all the Opposition in Knesset were already sharpening their knives in expectation of the next election and so they tried to convince the old man just to drop it but he refused and as tensions rose within the party finally ben-gurion deployed what in the past had been his doomsday weapon he threatened to resign except that this time he kind of backfired people took him seriously others didn't some said well it's your right to resign if you think it's right some accused him of being a downright dictator and what unfolded was nearly two years of political mess and paralysis in fighting mudslinging LaVon was dismissed from his post as at the has the head of the eastern route in an attempt to appease men grain but that failed so he continued to threaten but he nevertheless held on to power through another election in 1961 gonna resign but I'll run for election nonetheless all the while his power base was eroding both within the party and within the eyes of the public as even former supporters and accuse him of dictatorial tendencies it's a wonderful euphemism isn't it all the quality is basically that had made him a great leader his resolve his stubbornness his ability to stand on principle and the total identification between himself in the state now made him a mockery in the eyes of much of the populace and finally in June of 1963 the old man once again announced his final resignation from the office of Prime Minister and this time no one argued politicians in public a life breathed a sigh reef and felt that the time had finally come and in one of his final acts been grants elected finance minister and Mapai party leader Levi Eshkol as his successor it seemed to be curious that coal couldn't have been more different than then grant he was a plan that technocrat a party man he lacked Ben greens charisma and his dynamism in leadership but really the reason behind it seemed to be clear right away rumor had it then Ben green really only saw ash Cole as a caretaker as someone who could be easily replaced when after a brief time in retirement the public and the party realized that the old man had been right all along and the country couldn't go on with Adam edge Cole himself actually seemed to agree with that assessment at first as he later said in the first several weeks after I was appointed to the prime ministry when the Prime Minister's arrival was announced during receptions or other public events I used to look around and find who was coming little did the country know that lady Ashe goal would be a leader for the Israeli decade which would once again shake the world on the eve of his meeting with the President of the United States Lyndon Baines Johnson Prime Minister Eshkol was nervous I mean personally I can understand Johnson by all accounts was a large and very loud man and Asheville had only received the invitation for a state visit months before this was in fact the first official meeting between a president and a prime minister since the state was born it's not that they hadn't met before after all Ben grin had met presidents in his day but only in unofficial circumstances coincidental meetings arranged in people's apartments in New York those were what political analysts call illicit Affairs but no longer with the State of Israel be a secret mistress lady Asheville was about to usher in the era of aboveboard relations between the United States and Israel so like I said he was nervous and in an attempt to calm him one of his aides began to read to him a short personality piece from the New York Times without telling the prime minister who it was about quote he's a farmer he's a man who loves the soil and growing things he feels best when on his own farm and growing his crops he likes people and is always straightforward and hearty mr. Escalade asked him who do you think that is but he stammered but but that's me no sir his aide replied that's the man you're going to meet the President of the United States and indeed from all counts the tall Texan farmer in the White House hit it off with the short chubby Jewish farmer of the Galilee it could have been that personal chemistry in fact which paved the way for the most important political relationship that Israel has ever had but if you want to appreciate that you gotta let a little bit of the backstory so lady ash Cole was born lady Skolnick and a small shtetl it's a village near Kiev in 1895 he was the second of ten children and he lived in a family that combined kasi dude orthodoxy Zionism and some of the wins of the new Jewish enlightenment to boot you know your typical Jewish home barred as a Jew from attending the local public schools ladies parents sent him to the Hebrew gymnasium in Vilna where the secular a Zionist element is upbringing really won out because there he came under the influence of Yosef Springbok he was the founder of Hippolyta ear was a socialist Zionist pioneer movement and at age nineteen Lavy made his Aliyah to the Land of Israel finally coming up and coming home unlike many of his peers his parents were actually quite supportive of this radical move so supportive in fact that his father offer financial support at this point word had already come back to the Ukraine of the desperately hard conditions that those who moved in Israel lived in young lady's response was indicative of the life of hard work and integrity with delay ahead he refused his father's generous offer with the following explanation only if I come empty-handed will these hands be ready to work and work he did the next two decades of live eh people's life read like a primer in labor a Zionist history he quickly upon arrival change Skolnick - goal in honor of the grape clusters that he spent so much of his time picking a great cluster neva is an ash coal and he was part of the original group of cubed Agana vet not the original de ganya but its extension along the shores of the canary he was amongst the founders of the map I party let's ben gurion party and the histor toot Labor Federation he headed the JNF campaign purchasing land in the 20s and 30s and in 1934 he travelled to Germany on behalf of the issue to supervise the controversial Hvar a plan that was the transfer of Jewish capital from Germany to Palestine which despite its controversy contributed significantly to the economic development of the issue but his great labor of love one rich really defined him all the way through the Premiership was for water in 1937 s coal was responsible for one of Zionism greatest pre state accomplishments the creation of a national water utility mickleton the story goes that while he was living on Cuba's Tigana Ashkelon a friend used to drive every day a wagon hitched to two mules to bring water from the Jordan River all the way back to the kibbutz and that soon became tiring labor and so they consulted with a stinker Blas who was an engineer and fellow member of the ganya and together they can invented a wholly new idea carry water to the farmers instead of milk no the farmers slept to the water and so they bought a pump and a pipe and together with simcha blasted technical help macaw wrote the Israeli national water utility was born and throughout the rapid political rise which lay before him lay the Asheville never neglected dream of Criss crossing the country with pipelines that he called veins of the human body blood and water to him were always one in the same he was my party secretary chairman of the Tel Aviv Labor Council and ultimately the first director general of the Ministry of Defense in 48 where he proved instrumental in transforming the underground Hagana army into the unified Israel Defense Forces and all the while he still found time to dig wells laid pipe channel Springs I mean it's true that his hands were more often dirty with the ink of the paper work to make it happen then the soil he loves so much to move right but after the war he worked at sustaining Israel's economy as it absorbed over 700,000 immigrants I hope you recall and his success in public affairs led to lady Asheville's election to the Knesset for the first time in 1951 and soon after in 1952 to his appointment as Minister of Finance once again he was trying to keep the country afloat wrestling with severe shortage of housing foreign currency and jobs hopefully you remember the story from previous episodes he stabilized the national budget and created a workable tax system which I suppose I should thank him for and all the while he had his eyes on the prize he was supervising what's known as the ark own negative project pushing the government to finance a concrete factory which would only craft the 66 inch pipes needed to make the desert bloom and as I said Lady Asheville was offered the position of prime minister when ben-gurion finally resigned in 1963 he may have seen himself as ben-gurion saw him originally as nothing more than a placeholder but there was a whole generation of younger leaders who saw in Eshkol the opportunity to break ben-gurion monopoly over ma high politics and they were therefore determined to keep him in the Prime Minister's office and with that kind of political base you can go awfully far and apparently as SQL began to register real political achievements both within Israel and abroad he came to share their view that he wasn't just a caretaker but the rather just like his beloved farms around Agana he could be a steward we'll get back the politics don't worry we've got quite a bit of that time ahead of us until we get to 1967 but let me glory in water resource management for one last moment some of you may not know that actually my second degree is in that and that's why I came to Israel really to begin with well anyway in a school's first year in office he was completely devoted to the completion of what he'd begun with a pump and a pipe back in 1937 in 63 the Prime Minister gave the go-ahead to finance a drip irrigation system for an orchard in the northern Negev the a pilot project something you'd think that a Prime Minister shouldn't be paying attention to but you know what it was a phenomenal success it saved 60% more water than existing irrigation systems and did it while increasing the yield of the field and you may know that drip irrigation quickly became a backbone not only of Israeli domestic agriculture but of Israel's agricultural diplomacy all over the world to this day even though drip agriculture is at this point all the school even though the arms trade is the let's say less savory face of Israel's economic diplomatic push in the developing world agro tech is actually our real face to many nations I had the great merit of working with people who were pouring their heart and soul into doubling crop yields in small villages in the Horn of Africa may they be blessed to succeed but you know what lady Asheville dreamed of flows not a dripping water his aim was nothing less than a national water carrier which would channel fresh water from the sea of the Galilee in the north through the highly populated centre of the country and then on the Negev desert integrating and expanding local resources along the way in order like I said to make the Desert Bloom it was really the ultimate Zionist dream even Herzl back in his 1902 book Alton Island discussed massive projects which used the sources of the Jordan River for irrigation and channeled sea water for producing electricity and if you will it it is no dream now if you're familiar the Red Sea Dead Sea canal for generating electricity is still in the dream Faye's but the national water carrier became a reality in 1964 I'm gonna resist my desire to throw a massive heap of numbers at you but for now just knows this the cost of the project in his completion was 420 million shekel in 1964 prices it was the largest investment in civilian infrastructure that Israel had yet made and it originally carried 80 percent of israel's irrigation water and 20 percent of the drinking supply today up to 72 thousand cubic meters that's 19 million gallons in the american measure of water can flow through that kara every hour at 1.7 million cubic meters a day and it's carrying now more than half of israel's drinking water a critical piece and one which we'll return to is that the original plan called for the pumping source station to be on the headwaters of the Jordan River in the hills above the Sea of Galilee but it faced fierce Syrian opposition the jordan river at that point formed the border between Israel and Syria in the 1949 armistice agreement which brought an end to the war notice armistice agreement not peace treaty this isn't the border it's a ceasefire line but nevertheless as soon as 1949 past political and military clashes began to break out and in 1953 in particular things got hot when Israel began construction on the source pumping station so when the United Nations joined the fray and demanded that Israel respect the disputed nature of the headwaters the Israeli government made the rare decision to actually comply with international pressure and they move the intake for the national water carrier down to the canary this was a very costly decision the move to the canary required two things first of all the water is of a much greater salinity which means it has a long-term impact on the soils that means nothing to you you can write me an e-mail later but more importantly or more immediately I should say that in order to take the water from the canary instead of the mountains above it they now had to lift it nearly 370 meters to the high points of the national carrier you may be unaware merit itself is more than 200 meters below sea level to this day the pumping stations that do that's appear in salmone are amongst Israel's most important electricity expenditures but you know what it worked and you know how the country has blossomed from the vision of this farmer term Prime Minister you just have to take a little tour in the countryside to see it and as we'll see in coming episodes the conflict with Syria over water didn't end with that decision to change the source of the National War II carrier down to the Kinneret one of the critical build ups to the outbreak of war in 1967 will actually be the Syrian plan to divert the headwaters of the Jordan in order to undermine this project at its source so to speak and we'll speak about Ashville retaliation policy and its role in the march to war but for now I want to wrap things up with a focus on his domestic struggles I wish to be buried or cremated it is the same to me at the place in which death will find me my bones if I be buried outside of the Land of Israel should be transferred to the Land of Israel only at the express order of the Jewish government of that country when it will be established those are the words from the last will and testament of Zev Jabotinsky written when he was living in Paris in 1935 if you don't remember who Jabotinsky was or why the great leader of revisionist Sian ism was in Paris rather than Jerusalem in 1935 then oily I failed in my job go back and review the second half of season 2 or frankly write me an e-mail I'll try to fill you in directly but for now we've got to move forward in time not backwards Jabotinsky actually died in the u.s. five years after he wrote those words tragically in 1940 perhaps the Lord was merciful and took him away before he could see the disaster which he had been shouting about for years and he was actually buried in the New York Montefiore cemetery through the eyes of Jewish history his request to be reinterred in the land Israel is hardly exceptional I mean many others had written the same in their wills before them and they merited to be buried or at least reburied here and even through the eyes of Jewish politics it wasn't so strange after all the body of Jabotinsky is hero Theodor Herzl was moved from its Vienna grave to a hilltop on the edge of Jerusalem in August of 1949 the area around his grave was actually expanded quickly after into a Plaza where they held the first independent Day ceremony in 1950 and when in 1952 ben-gurion ordered the Finance Minister Eliezer Kaplan to be buried nearby and what he then named hellcat Gedaliah Ummah the burial plot of the great of the nation the first steps were taken toward Mount Herzl becoming what it is today Israel's National Cemetery so there you might think that Jabotinsky last request would have been easily fulfilled and soon after Herzl his remains would be transferred at the quote express order of the Jewish government of that country now that it had indeed come into being you might think that but you would be wrong and you would be wrong because if you think that then you don't appreciate how extremely personal Israeli politics really are ben-gurion had hated Jabotinsky in his lifetime they had been fierce rival and at one point he gone so far as to call him lad amir hitler those are really fighting words for someone who lived through the Holocaust and the grudge didn't end with death like I said is really politics then and now are all about the personal maybe that's true everywhere but somehow I feel like the sort of overgrown family argument that we are is a little bit more bitter I mean after all one root of the antagonism between current Prime Minister Bibi Netanyahu and President Ruby Rivlin was a dispute between their followers over an academic job which only one of them can have that holds no candle to the bad blood between the Hagana and the ear goon the left wing and right wing underground armies between ben grin and Jabbok Pinsky they're both leaders and spiritual mentors drawl we know if you've listened to season 2 that Vienna did not shrink from spilling revisionist blood when it was a question of maintaining their power and I mentioned at the beginning of the episode been grants campaign slogan without a root and without machi but recognize that this rejection ISM wasn't just confined to politics and coalition formation banger Ian wanted the history of the state to be told without the memory of his rivals and that meant without Jabotinsky z-bone's when a member of knesset morale high morale of the religious Mizrahi party first proposed to ben-gurion in 1951 that Jabotinsky x' will be honored his response was quote the land needs living Jews not dead bones now this was despite the long history of Jews being buried in the Land of Israel despite the fact that Herzl had been moved in fact Ben Graham himself had overseen the moving of the remains of the Zionist leaders knock'em Sokolov and David Wolfson back to Israel in the first years of the state but despised rejections the requests continued in 52 Jabotinsky former secretary and professor of law benjamin zine tried his luck in 54 Interior Minister Israel Chaya of the generals IANA Sparty made another plea this time ben-gurion response was quote man originates in ashes and ends in ashes is desirable and better that he rests where he dies trust me it rhymes in Hebrew but either way you can hear the bitterness of it and these are only some of the requests now as this is going on you should recognize the revisionists were all but written out of the official history of the pre state so much so that their veterans had to form self-help groups in order to replace the non-existent government support which did go to those who fought in the Hagana and their leader Menachem Begin was consigned to what seemed at this point to be a permanent role in the political wilderness but all this like so many other things began to change with lady Asheville's election in 1963 options the election his appointment because in addition to his passion for agriculture and his well-known good nature Asheville had a great desire to rule through unity and not through division in the first step or at least one of the first steps toward healing the wrists within his young society was to reach out directly to Menachem Bagan and establish a regular meeting with him in fact on the very day that ESCO married his third wife librarian mirin liquids he met with bacon later the same day it was at this meeting where Baigent presented the Prime Minister with Jabotinsky swill and requested the immediate fulfillment of his final request Asheville responded that he himself had admired Jabotinsky in his youth and asked beggin for a little bit of time to consider the request upon reflection he realized that there was perhaps no better way to begin extinguishing the flames of hatred which still smoldered between left and right and so two days later he returned to bagan with a positive response and the result was an official burial operation entitled Zev Jabotinsky returned to the homeland the coffins of Zevon johanna Jabotinsky were transported from new york on a plane with their first stop in paris there they held a short ceremony in the presence of the Prime Minister and from Paris it was on to Tel Aviv where the coffins were placed in Herbert Samuel square while an endless line of people passed to pay their respects and finally on to Jerusalem where hundreds of thousands of people accompanied the casket into its final resting place among them were Israel's former prime minister Speaker of the Knesset the head of the stream cordon of course the chief rabbis but at the head of the crowd bearing the standard of his great mentor was pay root party leader Menachem Begin and just before the coffin was lowered into the ground mind you in a separate plot southwest of Herzl is grave and not in ben-gurion Theodore a Roma big and removed Jabotinsky sword from his coffin and presented it to the Jabotinsky Institute's honor guard the emotional event was actually the the symbolic it was a turning point in the public attitude toward Menaka million which began to become increasingly more positive and supportive and in many ways it paved the way for his entry into the unity government of 1967 but that's an important story which lies ahead for now even in his retirement back there in stable care down in the Negev Ben green could not lay down the sword of his enmity in an article in the Labor newspaper d'Ivoire in 1964 he wrote Jabotinsky died 24 years ago and few of the nation know the true character in deeds of the man who bacon calls the generations teacher among the means I root uses to strengthen its influence and prestigious distortion of history perhaps it has to do so because since its creation it has not contributed a single fruitful project or concept to the strengthening of the state your eyes mainly on the generations teacher to perform this quote glorified labor of distortion and fabrications as the wisest of all men meaning Solomon said love is as strong as death but what if hatred has been green at the end of the article that is apparently much stronger and one wonders if this is not just a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black you know I don't have so much to say in conclusion here because there's way much more to say about maybe actual we're far from done we'll see him as a bit part in the story of the great spy le Cohen maybe next week depending on how the research goes we'll know him as the leader who dismantles the military government that ruled over the Israeli Arabs from 1948 to 1966 a difficult story but one that has to be told and of course we're going to need to spend quite a bit of time contemplating his complex role in the lead-up to and the execution of the war of 1967 but for now as much as this episode is about his leadership I think the important takeaway is really about ben-gurion the old man did indeed make one more attempted return to politics he formed a breakaway party from the hi in the 1965 elections in order to fight with his former protege it's a complex story that I'm not going to waste my energy on but suffice it to say that what resulted was a realignment of left-wing politics in fact lady ash Cole called his new party the alignment and it's really the roots of the true Labour Party which emerge from it in much later years it's part of a much larger dynamic of consolidation on both left and right which would give birth to Likud on the right as well quite soon but ESCO held off this challenge when grin only managed to gain ten seats in that election the gain ten seats and the perception widespread perception that he was simply a bitter politician who refused to go away you know historians biographers call the period in bangor Ian's life from 1963 to his death in 1973 the phase of ben-gurion versus ben-gurion the man who had always been a fighter who gave it all and who so identified with the state that he couldn't separate its well-being from his own actually did quite a bit of damage to his own image in the last 10 years and perhaps even to the state oh I don't want to over dramatize that now it's true that history has been kind to ben-gurion but that's really due to his work from 1948 to 1960 and in spite of what came after so I guess I'll just end with that thought that we should be wary of the fact that all politicians never die they just seem to fade away okay folks I want to say thank you want to say thank you for the folks who give their hard-earned money to make this show happen to keep it free and widely distributed I want I'd like you to join them go right now at my website Jewish story dot Co in the upper right hand corner you'll see a button there that says be a patron you can click there if a little bit of her podcast support I also invite you to dedicate a show in the honor of someone with us today or in the memory of someone gone if you send me an email at Rob Mike foyer at gmail.com or your personal message me at Facebook and Rob Mike Feuer I'm happy share the details about you to make that happen I also want to thank the Land of Israel network that the Land of Israel comm creating a platform that allows me to reach so many and pass the people I want to thank card ace entity VAR e BS Oregon that il for building an educational institution that gives me the privilege each so many wonderful Jews and I want to thank you for listening I'm Rob Mike for