The Rambams Innovation of Chazarat Hashas | Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz | June 23 2026

Okay, good morning everybody. I hope uh hope you're well. Uh so actually we're finally going going to go on to a new letter of the Rambam, a different letter of the Rambam. Uh dealing with a very very interesting and somewhat controversial change that the Rambam made in the in the way the synagogue service gets conducted. And this is a miktav a chuva that he wrote to a talmid of his who has a very interesting name Rev Saja. Actually his father has an interesting name Ravaja Benot. So Brahot was apparently used as a first name at some point in time and this is not Rafajon of course this is a contemporary of the Rambam a younger contemporary who was a Talmud and once again just like Rapha Ravaja lived in Alexandria. So the Rambam had many the Rambam lived in Cairo Fostat but the Rambam had many admirers and detractors as well in Alexandria and the issue that's being discussed is an issue about Khazar Sashhat. So I need to go over the background there to fully appreciate what is going on. Anyone that goes to Shaw is familiar with the idea that we dive in the Amida, we dive in the standing prayer in silence. During the week it's 19 brahos even though we call it shona estray because the braha against the heretics was added later. uh on Shabbat and on Yam we dive in seven whatever it is but we start off with what is called aash we dive in silently and then the theore uh repeats everything uh and that is called the repetition of the shots is an abbreviation of course for by the way the idea that you call the guy that'sing for the it's not really clear where that where that happens The word Khazan does appear in the Mishna and in the Gomorrah. But Khazan in the Mishna and the Gomorrah never means the one that is uh davening uh for the omud. Uh it often means what we would call a gaba, an attendant, someone who is in charge of array of arranging the services and the like. Haket. Uh the one who davs for the goes by two terms. Either he is described as shalakor that means the emissary of the congregation which later became abbreviated as shots that's the same thing or he is described as lifa now is a reference to the arinhes the aresh is called ava and yed is based on a in the garra that is not followed in too many places and that is that when one davens to Hashem on behalf of the congregation they should step down as it says from the depths I call out to God. So therefore it used to be in some places there still is but but in the time of the Gumar this was universal that the Kazan would not step up to Davin for the arm so to speak he would step down. Now uh in the uh basessets of Prague Maral Shaw uh they still have that feature of stepping down and also uh for those who uh are familiar in the good is sh in Baltimore Mosha my was my high school rebby he should be well uh they also those step down there must be a lot of other places too I'm sure it's not unique to those two places in the world but by and large you don't have it and and and sometimes it's the other way around the kazin steps up so people can see him. But in fact, these are the two terms that the Mishna uses for uh what we call the today. uh one is and the other is and that is why it's very interesting that when the Mishna discusses sometimes you have to remove a kazan if he makes certain mistakes or especially if they're heretical mistakes because in those days there was also a fear there may be hidden Christians who are infiltrating so if he's uh said certain things that could be implied to be heresy so when it talks about removing the kazan It says that literally means we pull him up. So aliyah today tends to be positive coming to Israel. In those days when you were pulled up, it was actually a negative because it means you were removed as as as Kazan. Okay. So as I say I I don't know it's somebody probably wrote an article because people have written articles and everything. When did the word Khazan uh become used for a shar? That was not the original use of Kazan. Kazan was really the gaba or the arranger of things uh and and and the like. Okay. But be it as it may, this is a familiar feature to anybody who's ever gone to show. We have and then we have uh hash and this is very old. This is absolutely mentioned in the Mishna many times and the Mishna is not creating a new custom. The Mishna is stating the minhagim that we're already in existence. But you need to know that there's a fundamental mlo between Raban Gamo and the about the nature of according to Rabin Gaml anybody can be yay the amid by listening to the and answering a whether you know how to read or you know the davining or you don't know how to read it makes no difference works for everybody you So according to Robin Guml you don't have to dive in the silent amid you can be with the provided of course that you listen to the whole and you answer a which means the is to use or the is uh whether you're a baky a baky means somebody who is familiar now again in those days you know I I misspoke a little bit when I said whether you know how to read or don't know how to reading was not necessarily the test because remember uh in the olden days even before printing not everybody had a sitter you didn't have like a million sedura and there were people even if they knew how to read they didn't necessarily have a a sitter in front of them and they needed to hear the kazan so according to I'm going to use kazan just because that's the common term but beware in light of my earlier observation that it is not the authentic term that uh there were people either they didn't know how to read or they didn't have a sitter or whatever ever it would be so they could hear the but rabbil says it's not only for the ano baki it is even for the bak meaning even if you know 100% you could simply listen to the kazm that's rail the say no the say that anyone who is capable of dvening himself or herself cannot be with you have to have so this is a big big big big mlo and the and the Gmorra asks Aasha on each opinion and gives an answer like the who say if you're a bucky you're not yay so what is the purpose of sash the answer is very simple according to the purpose of is to be moy people who are not able to dab themselves either they don't know how to eat or they don't have a sitter or whatever it is. So according to the the relationship between and is a very logical relationship is for the people who know how to d in whatever way whether it's or or from a sitter and is a for people who don't know how to that the could be mostly that's what the's position is. That already raises an interesting question that bisman bisman uh people show up to show uh everybody has a sitter and the emis is even if you don't even know how to read Hebrew you can be yay dabing by reading English or whatever your language is so today the idea that somebody has to listen to the kazan otherwise they're not going to be yay dabing seems to be extinct and even if you found such a There's almost no chance he would even be aware of that. Meaning a guy walks into show doesn't know how to dive in. Is he going to know who? I mean, nobody tells him as far as I know. You know, you may welcome somebody hopefully give him a show, but you know, you're not going to tell. Oh, by the way, if you don't know how to how to read, listen to the So, so the em is in terms of its original function is totally of our So, one might raise the interesting question. So why do we even do sash? Well, the truth is sash has a secondary function meaning its primary original function according to the notal according to the is to be mozzy people who are not baky. Got it. Got it. And that function is largely defunct today. Although it's theoretically still here. It is theoretically here but it's you know it's not going to be carried out. But there's a second function and that is the vehicle for the recitation of kadusha and particularly initel for the recitation of berkas kanim which is done in usim at least that every day although in generally among ashkazm only on only on yungl. So therefore the argument goes that even if even if you don't have the need to be moy the anobaki you need because of kadusha right kadusha is the kadusha of the right what what is the kadusha because uh we are declaring God's holiness just as the angels in heaven declare God's holiness. And the angels in heaven declare God's holiness by theim of kadosh kad and by the right you're combining and cavode hashem by the way maybe you never made the connection but this is why one of the names of god is bor did you ever connect it to the kadosha he's kadosh because of the verse kadosh kadosh kadosh hashem OS and he's because so he is the god who is praised by and he is praised by now obviously without there's no kadua so that's a separate reason why you have to do it okay now this is all the but like raban gumlio we have an opposite question if according to raban gumlio everybody body could be yay with the repetition then why don't we just go because it won't be a repetition let's just go straight to the ding and even if I know how to read I'll just listen to the kazan and answer meaning like rubbing like the question was what's the purpose of the repetition and the answer is for an anoi and also form but like rubbing guml the problem is what's the purpose of the balash So the gumar says a very surprising thing that according to technically is superfluous but we want to give the time to organize the so he won't make a mistake. So we kind of fill it in so he can prepare the recitation that he's going to be doing. Now, one of the questions asked the Rambam is, "Well, wait a second here. If there's no real reason for us to dab in like Raben Guml, and we're only doing it to give the time to organize the prayer, then that means we're saying God's name in vain. That means all of the that we're reciting in the is a how could that be allowed?" So, the Rambam says, "You're misunderstanding something." Obvious. You see, you're you're understanding that even though we dab in Bahash, we're going to be with the Kazan. And then you're asking is a blessing in vain. But it works the other way around. Once we want you to dab in to give the time to prepare, you will be yay you're ding in that and therefore your is not a because that is the that you're going to be owed to it. I mean actually that's pushhat in in this idea. We're not we're not saying oh you're yay with the kazan but you got to give the kazan time to prepare. No once we want to give the khazan time to prepare you're going to be yay in that particular way. And uh the Rambam is sometimes a little critical. He says to saja I never heard anyone who would make a mistake uh of that of that of that nature. a little muster to his stomach. Yeah. >> Yes. Yes. Yeah. This is a very important point. Uh first of all the idea of that he needs to organize his thoughts once again that originally dated from a time when there were no sedurum and etc. And I mean even the putum the huge putum that came later originally were only the khazin said it. No one else said it. And the khazin had to memorize this stuff. He didn't know even have something in front of him. Fact sometimes it was improvisations. Some pin were improvisations. At least the the famous legend of which may may not be historically true is essentially it was an improvised prayer. As RaNon was dying. Raan was said to be the author of Nantokev. He asked to be carried to sh and right before kadusha he said the beautiful moving prayer of nantov and died and uh of course who would know I mean the prayer wasn't written down so it's bravot says raamnon came to him in a dream and taught him the uh the again whether that particular beautiful powerful story is is even true is is is a big big big big debate but nevertheless I think it highlights highlights the historical fact that a number of Putim were improvisational creations at the uh at the time that were not even written down and they had to be reconstructed uh a little a little later. Okay. So now we have the following uh issue right so now we understand the idea of sash uh oh yeah I'm sorry for just your issue this is very important so it turns out that according to at least reban gamo the purpose of the silent amida is to give the kazin time to organize his prayer so this gives rise to a very interesting issue when we have different your point is very good different of the not smart. They're they're not major differences, but there are differences. So here's the thing. If I'm an Ashkanazi Davening in a Spartic minion, so what should I do? How should I what should my Amida be? So Mosha gives a very sensible idea. He says anything that you dab in privately, you should say according to your so when I dab in the silent amida, I should say Ashkinas. So the zim whatever whatever it is however anything that I I recite with a minion like kaduca or kadesh I should say like the minion because I'm doing it because of the minion right so that would mean therefore that the silent amida assuming I'm ashkenaz in a spardic minion or vice versa but let's let's use one example an ashkenazi in a sardi minion would say should say kadesh like spardim although they commonly don't and vice versa but the silent fela should be Ashkanazi. Now let's say you're an Ashkenazi though that's a now clearly the repetition is going to be that's for sure but here is the even the silent should beardi and the reason is because we see according that the whole purpose of the silent amid is to prepare yourself for the prayer that you're going to recite. So obviously it should be in the nusak that you're going to recite it otherwise you're not really preparing yourself and indeed you see this all the time uh you see often that if an Ashkenazi is ding for vice versa they'll often because you kazar's quickly they'll often start saying the Ashkanazi words have to correct themselves say again >> no that's what I'm saying a regular person dins his that's what I'm saying but if you're the then even your silent Amida has to correspond to what you're going to be. So, so the truth is uh we do not well it seems to be a suffic meaning mean meaning like this because it's a suffic we don't allow Rabban Gumlio's hetra for a bucky to be withhar but but we still accept the idea of laast so it's more of a more of a sic Yep. >> Yes. I I'll get to that. I'll get I I'll get to that. Okay. So, this is a big big we don't follow Raban Gil's leniency. So, if you're a Bucky, you're not yay with but the Garra itself gives a very interesting idea. It says that even though we normally do not follow Reban Gumlio, we follow Reban Gum Leo for theos of Roshashana. Which means although that's not our custom either which means according to Rabin Gumlio even if you know how to daven you can be yay with the for theos of the musf of the musf of rashash presumably because the musf of rashash shana uh is number one long but but number two has different elements that don't appear in any other musf. We have the three sections. Malios verses of kingship. Zikronos verses of remembrance. Chauffeurot verses of blowing the chauffear. Uh and these are unfamiliar to people. We we don't say them in the course of the year. Uh and therefore even if you are a baky you might get confused. You might get bal. So the gammor itself says that even the are to gumo that the kazin can be moy. Now here is a very very interesting thing though and this is a min. Now again our min is not that way. Our min is obviously people who don but had the gmorrah says you could be with the now let me bring you a min that the ram discusses in mashana which is a minog that I doubt any of you have ever seen and I have never seen it at all and that is uh when you look at the let's say the prayers of rashana and you look at my shak and m meaning excluding musf so with seven braos although it's elongated a little bit but it is the basic amida of yamto structure you have the first three brahos and the last three braos and then a middle bra again it's not the same as y but structurally it's the same which ends melon okay that's seven and that's every every y and every shabas are the seven braas first three last three and a middle braha which is called the kaduc the holiness of the day whether it's shabas whether it's yamt whether it's rash or whether it's yum kipper okay we then come to musf and the musf of rashashana is the only ama that has nine brahas because you have the first three and the last three but then instead of one kaduca we have three brahos malos zikronos and chauffeur. So the Ramban brings a min from the gaon of Babel that everybody would dab in for Musf they would dab in the seven they would dab in the same of my shaka they would do for Musf and then the would be Mozy them in Malio Zronos and chauff meaning he would I don't mean he would just say that he would say the whole amid but they would hear the chauffeur only from the only from the the so uh the rush takes great issue with that the rush says how can you do that I mean chaos are part of the amid of how can you tell people to dab in uh musf without mus but the ram is mazbear that this is based on the gammor itself because mik We pass in not like rebend and that is normally whatever you're able to d on your own you have to din but we make an exception for because of so says the ram the gam understand that the exception is only for the chauff and the of seven you got to do on your own again we absolutely do not pass in that way but the raan defends that may And this was a that was practiced uh in the time of the gaim that the mus of the people in sh was the same as ma shak and they only did uh and they were with but the ram does caution this is interesting point that if you're going to follow that min which we do not follow you have to hear the wholehat from the beginning to the end. You can't like say, you know, go into the hallway and just come back for the have to be part of a repetition of the Amida. This is a fascinating min. And again, I I doubt that any of you have ever seen it uh because I am not aware of it being practiced at all. It literally is an extinct min uh that uh but for hundreds and hundreds of years it was followed in various places. Yeah. whatever reason you're going to give you >> yes that that is correct that is correct which means even though we announced today even though I shouldn't interrupt because of the chauffeur blowing that's true but but you are correct that when I'm being with the there's a separate reason why he can't be mopsic because he's being moy me in my my but again that got swallowed up by the other reason not to be mopsic because of the cha block. By the way, um the idea that well we're going to see that talking during Khazar Sashhats was a major major problem even in the Rambam's time and that's going to get us to the very great innovation that he created. Now some of you may be familiar with what in Yiddish is called a kadusha. So first of all there's even a question how you pronounce it. Some people call it what does he mean? He in Aramaic it just means where but that has nothing to do right. So the truth of the matter is is just the litfish pronunciation for kadusha. So the Yiddish is but in Lithuania everything becomes an a pure lit. So is okay. What does kadusha mean? So just means loud. The loud could do that. And this is where is truncated or partially partially eliminated. And you'll often see this in maybe at a or maybe at an office where they don't have a lot of time or people are in a rush. And means that instead of everybody dinging a whole shimona and then a whole repetition from the the starts right away right away with the braos through kadusha and then people continue and they finish their silent amida as well and they say kadesh and and the like. So it's many yeshivas do it as well. Now the kadusha uh has a bit of a checkered history uh because it clearly is not the way wanted things to be. Kazal wanted for whatever the reason a full followed by a full and that is proper. It is not appropriate just to jump to right away. uh but in many many yeshivos uh it became common uh partially because of be Torah although I I always have my hesitations when we invoke beetle Torah bafka to curtail benching and curtail domining you know I mean it's like you know if the would be you know people would learn every other second of the day so me you can talk about let's cut five minutes off uh you know but it's like okay whatever it is but is widely used in many yeshivas not all yeshivas and the like. Uh and it's based on the idea that listen we don't have people who are within. So the original purpose of is not there the purpose is for kadusha. So let him say the three brahas of kadusha and zp now kadusha is not done for shak particularly in part of it is because but the truth is even in they don't do it I'll get to the reason why now in the kadusha there are two different minhagim and sometimes you'll see people get mixed up and uh different people are following different things and that is when the kazan begins the three brales. Do I start with the kazin or do I wait until after kadusha ra the takes the position that when you're doing of course he doesn't use the word but truncated everybody should start with the kaz because we want it to be a communal prayer and then when we meet with the we answer kadusha and then we would also say lor vador if if you're ashkenazi etc and then we continue uh and that is the shittita we'll see of the raam we're going to see and that is the shittita of of the bash and the like the ram however which is the practice of ashkinazimm is that that seabore does not begin the bahash until after kadusha. So the first three braos and uh is are recited by the kazin alone we then answer kadusha and after the khazan finishes we then take our three steps back and forth. So you'll see that sometimes people either they're following their mic or they just don't know what their mic is. But you you'll notice in every kaduca situation some people are doing it one way and some people are doing it another way. But alms although it's gotten mixed up over the years, this is really a the and the if the I should be mas within or I should um I should wait until after kadusha and then be mas. Now I want to point out according to the rama there's a very excellent reason why it's impossible to do a kaduca for chakras like the rama and that is the following. There is a for shak to connect right we endemisel redemption and then you immediately move to and you're not allowed to have any interruption whatsoever between now if you were to do a kaduca in shakras based on the ram's practice you'd have a real problem because that would basically mean the starts and you don't even start till after kadusha that would be a heaps between and it's not a heaps in talking maybe but it's a heck in time right that right so like the it's why you cannot do a for shak and like ko I would give another reason every Even so in other words the point is both ashkanaz and do not do in the morning but it might be for two different reasons like the ra we don't do it in the morning because there would be a break between and like we don't do it in the morning because we would not be able to if we didn't have so the common denominator is only available for min it is not available for chakras but there may be two different reasons why it's not uh not available now again it's not optimal but it will be uh permitted uh well let let's let's let's go over the cases where it would be permitted all right so the yeshivos use the rationale of bal Torah okay that's not so compelling but that that's what they say okay uh the other reason where for sure it's permitted is when you're coming very very close to the end of zamfa has a circumscribed zan generally speaking at least if you're not aid you have to finish mina before the setting of the sun now many did not fully keep that and that that's the source of the oldidic joke that litak have more fear of the than they have for the rebonal they're always worried about but this would be a classic example. Uh if we are approaching sunset in order to get it within we can uh do a hea kadusha and the like uh it might also be a situation where you're in danger of losing the minion. Now in truth losing a minion is not as serious as you might imagine. I mean let's let's say the is repeating the amid right we dabbed with 10 and the began the repetition and then somebody walked out. So in truth if you want to know the truth is that if the khazan began with a minion he's allowed to finish even without a minion as long as there are six people most of them including the meaning five besides the and not only that he can even recite the kadesh after because that's considered to be the conclusion of so in truth losing your minion in the middle does not mean you forfeit the repetition nevertheless since It is so optimal to have a minion for the whole service. If you're going to lose the minion in the middle, that could justify the kaduca in order that you shouldn't lose your minion. So we have Torah r, we have uh the rationale of zman which is absolutely the best and we have the rationale of losing dominion. But now comes the Rambam and introduces a new rationale and that is the Rambam was a regular for the Musf of Shabasim not as a matter of he doesn't even record this in the Mishna to this is a very fascinating idea of you know the Rambam was in addition to being the god and the post of the generation the Rambam was a ro the Rambam was a of a shaw there was a rub of the shaw in Fat the main Jewish base Knesset in Cairo Fat is the old Jewish neighborhood of Cairo and the Rambam was concerned some things don't change in life the Rambam was concerned with a very prevalent practice and that is people would simply smoo during the musfats uh they would smoo they would walk out uh they would smoo because after all they dabed balahash they were I'd say already. So they f they answered Kadusha and Birkasco and him which according to the Rambam they did every day and Shabas every day really. Uh but then they would smoo and the Rambam saw this as a very very awful thing. The Rambam considered the smoozing and the walking out and the walking around. The Rambam called item and he gave a number of interesting reasons for it. Reason number one is that in the Rambam's time there were still amaratum who needed to hear the kasm and if these amaratum see the learned people are running around and not listening they're not going to listen. So number one, okay, that may be less of a problem for us today, but number one, there are going to be people who need the who are not going to be yay because of this. That's number one. Number two, the Rambam says it is that in the holy house of people are treating the without any respect, without any cover. And number three, the Rambam says the which means the Muslims. Look at the respect that Jews show Knessa. And they say, what type of people are these that they treat the worship of their gods with such disrespect? That's thee. So because of this, the Rambam said he made a takana. This is not a halak. In other words, this is not in the Mishna Torah. This is his own init that we're going to skip the and we're going to start with the repetition and those who are baky will say the amida with the kazin and those who are not baky are going to be yay because we pasin like So this is not a now this is this is not a this is not in other words this is not just saying the three braas this is a complete so that's why I don't understand the way people describe this people often describe this as the raam was for that does not accurate at all if anything the because we go straight into. So I do want to make it very very clear that this is not exactly the this is a full theim will dive in with the because we like the a baky except in a bucky should not be with and since the anal see the beam are governing so they're going to be to be with the uh to this day this min is still followed by if congregation does not have a regular for they go straight to although in some congregations they actually dram seem to be in favor of that the ram says if you're dabbling with the kazan you should d in bulakash not be bolam but they d in And the Rambam's concern was concern for talking. Now some say a concern for talking might also justify the but that's not exactly the min that the Rambam is uh talking about. The Rambam is talking about a full with berasanim uh and uh this was the minimum. It spread to Mitraim for several hundred years after the Rambam Spira until uh around 250 years later you had the Radvas. Radvaz was a great great Akaran or early early Akaran maybe late Rishan Ravid Ben Zimra who later came to Eric Israel that's the Radvas was the Rav of Mitzam years after the Rabba and the Radas felt I'm not sure if the talking situation improved probably not but the Radas felt it is better to follow the of the to have a regular followed by so except among the timmonium. Now we spoke a number of times that the timmonium had an unbelievable coat for the Rambam. Do you remember towards the beginning of uh the Shiorim the Rambam wrote a letter Ear Tman a letter to the Ammonite communities who were suffering tremendous Islamic persecution and they were buffeted. On one hand, uh, they were threatened with death if they keep the Torvah, and on the other hand, there were false messianic figures who were saying, "Hey, we're going to save you." So, they're hit with enemies who want to destroy them, and they're also hit with false messianic claims and some converted to Islam and whatever. And they were told that they're not Jewish anymore, whatever. So, the Rambam wrote a letter. And the Rambam said that he knows he's putting himself in danger by writing this letter, but he requested that his letter be read in every Besset in in Tman. Uh it was written in Arabic and translated later into Hebrew. And this gave tremendous tremendous comfort. It was essentially a letter of comfort that these are the sacrifices that come before Mashiach and the reward for Amuna is unbelievable and Hashem loves the Jewish people. Hashem will not abandon the Jewish people and though although times are very very hard they will not last forever. Comforting words. This was not unlike some other letters. This was not a analysis. These were words of comfort and and they were read in every synagogue in Tman and since then although tan Yemen is not near Egypt I mean it's a distance and yet they considered the Rambam their spiritual leader that they amended the kadesh in the lifetime of the Rambam uh that when we ask Hashem to bring redemption right may your name be glorified And then we speak to the congregation in your lifetime and in the lifetime of all of Israel may we see the ga. So in Yemen they added the words in your days and in your lifetime the lifetime of all of the Jewish people and they added and in the life of our rabbi and our teacher Rav Mosha the son of Ma they actually put that in the kadesh itself that was taken out when the Rambam died but but they they they put it in. So the Rambam was, if I could use the word idolized, although the Rambam would hate that word. The rabbi was so much against a bodhis of a person, but they more or less did idolize him. And as you know, the mira of in Yemen among many many segments was to follow the decisions of the Rambam even after the ar uh became widespread. Meaning in most of the Jewish world although the is based on the Ram but but the shar became the definitive code of Jewish law and it was supp supplemented by the glasses of the Rama and although once again the certainly is largely based on the Rambam but it became an independent macor people didn't go back to the Rambam and Pascin Hala. So today you know you wouldn't go to the Rambam and Taskan hala and yet uh many many tim to this very day to this very day consider the Rambam to be more authoritative to them than the itself. So the fact that the the tmanim adopted the Rambam's unique min of Khazar Sashhats for Musaf is no accident because it really is an expression of the tremendous tremendous regard that they had for the Rambam. But I do want to again emphasize that this was not codified in the Mishna Torah. So the Rambam never stated this as a this was shah this was a an emergency measure to deal with a talking problem which uh so people could ask the question well should we consider that today okay you know we don't like we don't like to change things u better to change the talking than to change the right the the schol shouldn't bend dabining shouldn't bend to the talking the talking should bend uh to the davenining uh and uh and the like um But this is the interesting minute that the Rambam defends. Now the only thing the Rambam says that you're missing, what are you missing with this? You're missing the idea of the having time to organize his before he starts because we said according to Rabl the purpose of of is to give the man at well if you're starting with of course that's a problem in every but here the whole is going to be recited without a preliminary So the Ram says okay life is not perfect. He says listen uh if the is not going to have time to look over the then he should look over the before he goes to in other words uh doesn't have to be at that particular point. he can look it over uh ahead of time and the Rambam feels that the benefits from his outweigh the the detriment a little bit in the Kaza not having time to prepare his okay so that's the unique minute of the Rambam there now the issek uh from has a bit of a different approach to uh because according to what we've been learning learning Khazar shat primarily has two functions. It is to be Mozy the ano bucky which is largely defunct today and it is the mechanism by which we can do kaducha and berkas coin now theoretically according to all of that according to all of that theoretically there actually shouldn't be an inherent problem in talking during kazarats inherently now the raam was concerned about it because he called item and it would discourage the the to be but just looking at it in isolation I'm not I'm not being with I mean but I dab it already so intrinsically one could even understand the kalis of people talking of course the iss that there are two different in talking uh there is an isra in a sh in a sh of but forget about dabbining. Let's say you're not dabbing. You walk into a shaw here now hopefully not during uh the shar but you know you just want to have a a casual conversation there are actually so the is forget about forget about forget about there's an isa in the base but but even putting that aside if we put aside that issue then what's so wrong about talking during khazar so the so so the ram had to predicate it on and on the not being. But has a different approach has an approach that even if you already dil you need as part of your and he differentiated between andor is when we join together as individuals And we pray our individual prayers with a congregation. And that's a great thing is a great thing because Hashem joins the prayers of the individuals together. So that's called siblazor is a separate concept in which the shots represents the whole in fact the word in which this is aila of the sib as a collective body. It's no longer know 20 individuals who are doing their own prayer with each other. It is the prayer of the congregation itself. And therefore of salvic writes that even if you were the silent amid that only gave you you're still now this is why the brisker min is that they remain not only standing during but they remain with their legs together and they do not answer you know the idea that whenever you hear a bra you have to answer But is only answered on a bra that you're not being yay with. So if I hear you make a bra, I can say but if someone is moing me in kdish or havdala or migillah or kaneka I don't say because since that is not a response in the gammorra that's a postunic response we treat it like an interruption. So most of us do answer in because we're not being yites with it and if you were not a bucky you would have to you would not say but the briskers do not say at all because they feel the is being moy then into ha uh again which so according to them the isra of talking during is not only because of or the like as important as that is it actually means you need to not be moxic in order to be yay the idea of now that what's interesting is I mean I I I don't really get a lot of this because according to that uh the kaduca you've lost it meaning if you're doing without a full you have lost the dimension of hats. So that's going to be a big problem with the kaduca which you wouldn't have so much if it's only the for the people who were not bucky because we don't have those people today and the light. Okay. And uh and the truth of the matter is it's also very difficult to read Salvik's understanding into the gammor itself. I mean the gmorra itself says that according to the purpose of is to be moy and a no buggy. I mean it doesn't say to be might see a bucky in the abstract idea of uh yes >> no no yes yes yes I mean he artic you're 100% correct he articulated it but this was a mahalik uh that the brriskers had based on a duk and the ram the ram in fact describes as should they build something on it but again it's hard to fit in with everything else that we've learned. Be it as it may, whatever the reason, the says he who talks during harsh language. I mean the doesn't say it about a shabas. He doesn't say he who is he says it by talking during and then we get into the perennial problem. Are you allowed to learn during no talking? You're not allowed to talk. Okay, that that we know. So talking and learning is talking. So you're not allowed to talk in learning. Gotcha. But let's say I want to learn. I want to open up a safer. I want to learn during khazar sashhats. Am I allowed to learn during khazar sashhats? So I I do have to confess. I have to be totally honest otherwise someone's going to point out that they've seen me learning during uh so uh I myself do it. Uh but in terms of the basic texts, most mainstream views say it is not proper. There are if there are nine at least nine people who are listening and answering a so there are so in the yeshiv uh there became a min to be permissible about it but if you notice in Israel the Russia yeshivas are actually stricter about this and you'll you'll actually see that they don't now point out a long time ago that for some reason uh the eight sahara to learn is most powerful during meaning once dabing is over we have less of an urge to learn Torah but during doning that's when I have to learn and said this is the meaning of a statement of the braos talks about there were very very pious people who used to d the equivalent of nine hours a day they would prepare for an hour. They would daven for an hour and then they would decompress for an hour. Shakra is so the Gmorrah asked the kasha, you're dabbing nine hours a day. When are you going to learn Torah? So it says that because of their righteousness, God gave them the ability to accomplish even in less time. And Ravan said a person would die in the whole day. It would be wonderful if a person would dive in the whole day. So the cipher says, "Ah, that's the if a person would dab the whole day, he would do plenty of learning because that's when the hits him the most to learn Torah. So let's make dabing all day and then you'll learn. You'll learn for for twothirds of the time." So there is it's an interesting thing. Apparently Davening is harder than learning. >> Davin is harder than learning. Uh learning, one might say, has a certain egotism, intellectual satisfaction. Davin is total submission to the rebon. We don't like to submit. We don't like to subordinate ourselves. So even learning which we often may try to avoid when it comes to dabbing. We'll do learning over dabing. Uh yeah, I'm having difficulty hearing the reason why men wear fillin. Did you say why they wear it all day? >> Uh yeah, but but again I would say this. It's important to know that the mitzvah of fillin is not intrinsically connected to domin a man wears fillin he is fulfilling a positive mitzvah. The reason why most people don't do it today is that fill in requires that your mind not wander away from. So even though you're allowed to go to work, meaning I can work fill in, I can go to work and I can I can cook. I can do all of those things, but I'm not allowed to joke around. I'm not allowed to have kalus ro. So today that's too hard for us. So uh the mug is we limit fill in to dabing. Those who are able to live at a higher level still wear its fill in the old all day. I mean in the Zilman they even trained the bar mitzvah kids to wear its fill in the vil mone warts fill in all day and even in our generation of Shinburg people know him for the hundred pairs of sites but fewer people know that he actually wore fill in all day as well. He wore small fillin covered by his hat or or whatever. Uh so it's not just dabing it's it's it's a separate mitzvah >> people sitting down after >> after kadusha >> well well again there is no unless okay unless you follow the brisker idea there is no to s to stand up to it is the min of the yeshivas uh but yeah make idea and you could sit down yeshivas have two minim of standing up one stand up for khazar sashhats and we stand up for creass hatra but they are not obligations. So uh if one sits down for laning or one sits down for the repetition that's perfectly okay as long as you don't talk. So if you stand up and you talk you're picking the wrong minute. Uh not talking is much more important than standing than standing up. Okay you all have a wonderful week and take care.