The Truth About "Social Pressure"

A lot of the amounts that we [music] spend on anything that's communal really is based on norms that we are defining for ourselves. If you can get your daughter married for let's say 50 grand soup the nuts and you're spending 150 because you feel there's a social norm. You can't blame that on the weddings. You can't blame that on like society for someone to go in debt for a party. I know that people do it and I understand the tinas, but if you have if you have an out to be able to realign your values and sit your kids down and say you want us to support you and you want us to make a wedding, there's $100,000 of this money that we're putting into [music] this wedding. If you want to make the wedding in X, Y, and Z place, switch it to the Tako place. And I know I'm putting myself in danger as a as a band right now as I'm saying this, but it's still true. And you can't bring yourself to do that because of social pressure. There's introspection there. Welcome Aria. Yes, pleasure to the middle class money podcast. >> I'm honored to be a representative of the middle class of Cla >> but everyone's special. Yeah, right. >> I like to think so. >> Uh middle class is first class. >> That's it. >> But first, really just tell us a little bit about yourself and to everyone else. Um I know Ari for a while already, but let the world know. So why don't you start and uh we'll take it from there. >> Okay. My name is Ari Buanju. I am uh I live in Flatbush. I am blessed with a wonderful wife and seven wonderful kids. Um my uh my being so to speak or my my primary way I like to look at my existence is as a Rebi. I've been a Rebi for over 20 years. I'm currently a Rebi in um in Ru in Brooklyn. Before that I was here a Rebi in five towns at Rambam for many many years. And that is my so to speak morning occupation at night. I have probably maybe a better known occupation and that is a band Blue Melody. I'm the owner and operator of we founded I've been playing music for many many years but the band was founded in about 2014 and I basically took over operations you know entirely about 2018 and that is my source of income. My wife works as well. She's a teacher. She's been Magnum David for many many years and we're blessed to be doing what we're doing. That's who we are. >> So right away I when I hear that I want to ask a few questions. So as a financial planner um you know I meet with all types of people all types of businesses >> and the middle class has all types you know salaried and then but you own a business. I would love to hear >> how you scale the business cuz I know you said you took over operations. So that means it was a business that was already in existence and you just revamped. So I founded it with a partner with a former partner Ellie Lax, a beautiful guy and we worked at it together um for many many years and he jumped actually into the world of finance which left me kind of open. I was more focused basically I guess you could say on the music and the clients and the services and things like that. Music is we can call it a business. We can call it basically a service you know >> service yeah service fund. So it's it's it kind of I I guess financial planning is you know somewhere in somewhere somewhere in the middle but I took over more of the more of the operations and obviously a lot more of the financial authority. >> So the reason why I ask is because >> a lot of middle class you know start from scratch and I'm curious like how was that for you taking a a business and scaling it because I know Blue Melody today. I mean I know a lot about it. >> Yeah. >> Um and it's got a great sound and a great name to be honest. blue. How do they spell it? >> Bash. Yeah, it's regular blue. B. >> Oh, it's regular. It's not the French one. Nothing's fancy. >> Uh um so how if there are people that are watching this podcast and they want to build a business, what would you say is needed and what did you do if you could say it like in short form like what did you do to help help build it? >> That's a great question. I I generally approached it with a um so to speak a mid-level business model. my father, God bless him, uh was a was my guide for a lot of this. And I really, one of the first lessons that he taught me was really that in many ways, every business has to be looked at the same. Um you have to put in the labor, you have to have the vision, you have to have the goal, and you have to build around how you're going to get to that goal. Const, you know, you want to constantly push boundaries. You can't move too fast. Um, I really relied on my relationships because at that point I had been playing music for a long time. And you know, certainly for any business within the Jewish community, you're really going to base a lot of it on your relationships. I don't know that it's so much the idea of building a product from scratch. The music can be there and we're always developing the music, but it's it's it's more about developing relationships and those relationships turning those relationships into trust. And that's really been the cornerstone of what a successful business is for me. And again, you could do that if you sell pickles, if you sell bottles of water, if you do financial planning, you do that, you know, when you're building your yeshivas as well. I think it's the same thing across the board. >> Mhm. Your relationships. And so [snorts] this is where it gets to the, you know, the meat and the potatoes. >> Um, you know, so you're building a business >> and it isn't where it is today. How did you I wouldn't know survive or get through it financially in that building stage and you don't have to be as open as you >> that's a great question. >> Whatever you're comfortable with. Yeah, >> that's a great question honestly. Um level one is obviously and um nothing starts without that. Um point two, level two is just absolute drive and determination. I'm going to make this thing work. Mhm. >> Another important lesson I can attribute to my father is is you cannot rely or lean on anything in a business or any enterprise outside of yourself. Obviously, you're going to build the staff and you're going to draw from their strengths. You're going to build them up and you're going to give them gratitude and you're going to reward them and you know and meet their needs. But you cannot build a business on anybody else. Ultimately, you have to understand that this business is going to rely on me, myself, and I. and my vision, my will is going to be the key to its success. >> And and that's that's how you weather it. The the ups and downs, I'm certainly not exempt from it. I think everybody, any job, any business has those same ups and downs. The determination of this is going to happen because I want it to, because that's my vision. That's my dream. That's what's going to make it happen. And you'll figure out how to do it. If you're, you know, if you're uh if on the on the, you know, on the on the slower seasons, if it's you maybe doing stuff that you would have hired out, if you have to furlow some employees and you're going to do it and then when things get better, you bring them back and you weather the seasons because you know this has to happen. >> Yeah. So, what about numbers wise? So, you're building the business and hustling and making it happen. You have, let's say, a few how many kids you have in >> seven kids. Now you have seven kids. Blehur. >> I mean I guess when you started you had >> when we started I probably had five let's say five >> five kids starting two more kids. Two more kids two more grandkids. Beautiful married couple. >> So yeah >> you see there's hope. >> Not only that the kids are the source of says every time every time we another kid comes to the world every time Hashem blessed with another kid when we had to make every we have to make you see Hashem rains down the shea. He really does. We got to work. >> But Hashem brings the chef when when when we need it. That's what I've always found. >> It's it's, you know, from a financial planning perspective, unfortunately, sometimes [laughter] >> we look at kids as like expenses, but the truth is the >> the heart expands, you know, and you have uh >> but again, so 2014, yeah, you have a few children, >> you're you know, starting or building a business. How did you get by financially? >> So numbers. >> So numbers. So how do I apply? Maybe this is a larger Maybe this is kind of what you're asking Moshe, which is Yeah. >> How do I look at numbers? Like how do I how does a how does an Orthodox Jew look at numbers? I think if you look at numbers too much, I think it could be kind of frightening. You know, I don't know if this is a good time for it or not, but I want to um I want to share an anecdote. My wife and I a few years ago met with the revelita. So my son learns by him, someone has learned by him for a few years and is very close to him. So we to this meeting and one of the first things he asked me when he sat down is you know how's how's parnasa. I said part is you know it's good you know right yeah exactly you know no driver says it's going amazing you know it's it's good it's going it's great right and he said to me yeah and I said well like what does that mean you know he said are you paying your bills on a monthly basis I said yes he said you just made a wedding he said did you borrow I said no he said you have >> so that was that was profound to me meaning we have we have sometimes the wrong attitude to approach things, right? What do I need? You know, is it about numbers? Do I need to make X? Do I need to make Y? The way my understanding was if we can make our bills and we're paying our bills and we're not putting ourselves, you know, deeper deeper in debt >> and we're able to make simas without borrowing, that's pronounced. I don't even know if that's called middle class. I don't know what that's called. >> I mean, it's expensive, >> but that's called success. >> That's right. You know, not being millionaires, >> right? >> Um, that's always been like your approach. >> So, that's been it. If I can if if we can make it there then you know we're we've we've got more if we've got what we need to live and we're not living in a state of worry >> then then financially we're successful and we're blessed from the rebalum um numbers at the same time I'd be lying if I if I if I didn't if I didn't have a larger looming number in my head I do think that to be a member of a larger community in Kai Israel to send my kids to yeshiva to make simas um to support future kids, you know, future when you need support, there probably is a m there probably is a a number somewhere between 350 and 4, >> right, >> that a Jewish family needs, you know, to to make it and produce enough to secure their future until retirement. I think I think that number is probably an accurate number. What do you think? >> Yeah. I mean, that's the number I threw out on the other >> Oh, was it really? >> Yeah. And people thought I was uh cuckoo. >> Well, people don't want to face it. Maybe. Maybe they're diluting themselves. >> I just, you know, I said what I saw, but that that's great to hear it from from the ground. >> I think also every community is going to be different, right? Yeshiva costs more in certain places. >> And and family size, >> family size, house size, what kind of what kind of simas do I have to make, so to speak, >> which you know, do do I have to send my child to Israel to yeshiva? Do I have to send my daughters to seminary? All of that is going to play into, you know, what the makeup is. So um like we spoke about before. So, so again, so you're building the business and you have the middle class uh approach, let's call it, but was there family help throughout all of this? And go back to the beginning and maybe even talk about now, whatever you're comfortable with, >> because I know I did make a statement that surprised a lot of people that to survive, as we said, >> as a middle class person, you need some kind of family help, which I'll just say quickly, someone called me up and said, you know, I got bought my house. on middle class without family help. >> I said, "Well, how did you buy your house?" So, he goes through the numbers and then he says he got an interest free loan from a family member. >> I said, "That's help. >> That's family help. [laughter] >> It's it's a loan, but you're not getting an interest free loan from, you know, from Chase Bank or anything." >> So, anyway, so what what would you say throughout this whole journey, let's call it, I have gotten help from my parents and I'm grateful for it. I'm not ashamed to say it. I'll even say today there's still dividends from a business that's largely run by my father and my brother um you know on a mostly some on a minor level you know and occasionally that I'm still getting and I'm super grateful. Um I think that this is more a battle of ego than anything else out. [clears throat] I think that every certainly every head of house, every, you know, adult male, you know, that we're that we're taught to be wants to feel like we can provide for our family, so to speak, on our own. And again, to put a little bit of hashkuff into this also, nothing's nothing's on our own. It's all from the help anyway, you know, but we want to feel like we have the ability and the wherewithal and we're providing for our kids and and our wives and and and we don't need help. But if Hashem sends us help from from avenues, you know, that are open to us to to not take it just because on principle, it seems foolish to me. I mean, if you found a million dollars on the street, right? So, you didn't earn that million dollars. So, by the same principle, you said, "Well, I'm not earning the money, so I'm not going to take the money. I'm going to leave it there." So, if Hashem sends a gift through a parent or through a family member or through an uncle or through a trust fund, take it. I, you know, I think obviously it would be irresponsible, >> right, >> to just rely on the trust funds. And I I think that I don't think anybody should be told, well, you have to take family money and that's the only way you're going to survive. You'll survive. You put in your effort. Um, but be grateful as the gift of the gifts. What's to be ashamed of? >> It's not a it's not a contradiction. >> No, we we live in an absurdly expensive >> community and life. And maybe it's obviously that's that's the point of all the other podcasts to talk about, well, why is it this? So, we can we can break down each issue. Why is a wedding expensive? Why is yeshiva expensive? Why is a house expensive? Why is seminary? Why a card expensive? Why? We we can discuss all of that. But but the Mitsus is if you're living in this community and you need X to survive and the and and and you're getting gifts to help cover that X. Take the gift, say thank you, and be happy. >> That's what I think. Am I missing a point? I don't think so. >> Well, that I I agree with you. I don't think it's a contradiction to be the bread winner and the the supporter of a family and >> and um you know, receive family help if if you need it. You should you shouldn't like you said take advantage of it and you know rely on it like as if it's a you know your whole you should build your own business do your own thing but also take it >> I think so I mean obviously if somebody talks about you know expensive necessities and puts pressure on other people in the community talking about well you need to make this type of simple you need to drive this car your kids need to wear this clothing my daughter's busy with uh >> she comes home every day and her you know her friends are telling telling her she needs aloe this and Lululemon that Oh, >> so it's easy to put that pressure on everybody else around you, you know, if you're getting money from mommy and daddy. So, you have to, you know, be conscious of the community dynamic. If you can, if you if you have the money and you can afford this stuff, great. Um, but we always have to be very conscious not to not to, I think, raise the public bar, the public standard of of of how we spend and what's really a necessity in the community and what's just the nourish guy that if you can afford it, great. That's your business. But don't tell me that I need it. Don't tell don't tell my kids that they need it. >> You have to. Yeah. >> This week's episode is sponsored by Kai Lifeline. You might ask, what does Kai Lifeline have to do with the money podcast? I'll tell you. As a certified financial planner, I love it when clients save on taxes. And there's a very unique strategy that High Lifeline implements called a bargain sale. And just to keep it simple, let's say someone has property or a house that's worth a million dollars and they want to get a tax deduction on their income. They can sell that property to High Lifeline for lower than its fair market value and get a tax deduction on the difference. So if they sell that million property for $800,000, that $200,000 difference can offset their income taxes. That's potentially thousands in tax savings. So, this is a great strategy that I approve of to save on taxes. If you have a piece of property that's too much cost to operate or too much of a hassle or if you really want to do a very big mitzvah and give your money to a good place while saving on your taxes, this bargain sale might be the solution. If you're interested, please contact real estate at highlifeline.org. Again, that's real estate.org. org or call 646-9816945. >> So h how how did um so could you be specific again? Whatever you're comfortable with sharing >> as far as where the family help stepped in. Was it >> for groceries? Was it for tuition? Was it for your house? >> For nothing particular for a house. We we we got some help to get into the house. In fact, our recent house we we we were able to get >> It's funny. We we saw the opportunity. We moved down the block and we had to close on the new house before we were able to find the buyer for the old house. >> So, you know, so so we're hemorrhaging money. So, we knew it would happen. Barashem and I what I was able to do with is both my father and father-in-law were able to help me get in to cover the new house to close on that. And I'm so grateful. And Barash, we sold the house. We were able to repay that money, you know, as soon as we we were able to get in. And I think that's just an example. I think if you have let me let me let me flip the question because I have to think on the other on the giving end about my kids >> right as Barashem my you know my oldest couple is you know married with two kids in Lakewood and they don't have a house yet but that time's going to come eventually and I have to think about this like why wouldn't I want them to why why wouldn't they want to accept my help and obviously again they don't want to lean on it long term and you have to set up responsibility and infrastructure and all of that >> but when the time comes for them to have to get through the door. We're going to we're going to want to get them settled >> to whatever degree we can. And you know what? If I can't afford it, I'll say to them, "I'm sorry. You guys are going to be on your own. Hashem will help you like he helped us. >> If I can, of course I want to help. >> But I don't I wouldn't bash you shouldn't take help to teach you how to live on your own." If they're responsible, right, and they're mature, right, and they're doing what they can, then the rest is up to Hashem anyway. So, let me help. Let me let me play a role. >> That's amazing. So you pass on the way you received. Uh >> that's my uh you hear it sometimes in that people if you hear occasionally people basha won't want to help. I'd stay away from that sh that's not it's not a mindset I want my kid to get involved in anyway. Anybody any any any parent that bashita doesn't want to help their kids tell me I can't financially I have limits that's fine you know but >> bashita like you have to make it. But I I think even from like I said also in from an economic standpoint, the firm community has to exist with people giving and receiving because there's just not enough to go around. And what I'm hearing from you, which is so amazing to hear and to have everyone else here, >> I hope so. >> I I hope so, too. >> Yeah. uh you never know what people you know but [snorts] >> I'm assuming and I'm confident in believing that for people to hear that it's okay to be the bread winner and to receive >> um is a very uh I think it's a therapeutic thing to >> I think so I hope people realize that and every every situation is different every case is different I mean there's two there's two ways so to speak to generate money right one is to cut down on your spending which maybe you know we'll talk about and the other way is obviously to create more business and to create more revenue and create more income. So those are the two ways either work with cut down what you're using now right or bring from external sources and wherever those external sources come from you got to take advantage of them. I think it's that simple. >> Yeah, that's very good. So was there a time in your journey that um you were like in debt and financially strapped or or or stressed like >> I'm blessed I'm blessed to say that well stressed financially can be is always about the future and there's times that there's bigger expenses I have to figure out how to afford. >> Right. Um, >> right. >> I'm blessed to say that, you know, outside of the houses, I've been working for a long time and and we we moved lock step with what we could afford. >> And did we take a few risks, you know, with the first house? Yes. With the second house, maybe a little bit, yes. >> But we always we always >> on a general level budgeted what we needed and we made our future financial moves around what we understood that we needed. Mhm. >> And I'm I'm privileged. All I could say is that I'm blessed. I can't, you know, I can't speak for people that have gone through major financial hardship. Like I really can't I mean I' I we've built up and I can talk about the needs of Cly Israel and the needs of a of a Jewish family and how we've grown to meet those needs. >> Um but it's but it but it's been with calculation, with understanding with lock step and >> and and and and with handling the rest. That's what I could say. So amazing. So let's talk. You made how many weddings so far? >> Well, only one. >> Oh, and it was a girl or a boy? >> It was a girl. My daughter. Yeah. So, yes. Yes. If that's your question. That's for anybody wondering. Yes. It matters if you're the girl or the boy. [laughter] >> Okay. Anybody whether your flops are your 50/50 or the kind of Yes. There's a big difference. >> I'm just >> So, can I ask like how much was spent or is that >> I think so. How much how much was on your end? And let's and how much I guess I don't >> want you analyze a band. I don't I I don't want to Yeah. I don't want to talk about how much I did, how much other side did, you know, Yeah. Yeah. I think you got to figure like this. And this was a wedding a few years ago in the palace. It wasn't the kind of wedding. It wasn't a fancy wedding. It was the kind of wedding in the palace. It was I'm sorry. It's a I guess you know a standard so to speak wedding in the palace. You're calculating low30s for the whole. Now, the band I probably could have, you know, the band I I actually, you know, went a little bit bigger on cuz for me it's a business expense, you know, so I got marketing out of the band, you know, and >> everyone hear that? Any tax accountants or people doing their taxes? >> I did it with the permission of my accountant. >> We'll find out after this uh this interview if uh after this podcast if uh he calls me screaming saying I shouldn't have said that. >> We'll find out if anybody catches it. >> No names. >> Exactly. No names. Um, but you're going to budget, you know, for an orchestra, you're going to budget, you know, 10 10 grand, 11 grand before the singer. You're going to budget a photographer, which today is 12 grand, you know, 10 to 12 grand. >> And and then there's flowers also, which is 8 to 12 grand. But I but but again, I want to be very clear also that the way to approach weddings today is there really are cheaper options. And a lot of the amounts that we spend on on anything that's communal, right, really is based on norms that we are defining for ourselves. And I and I want to make a point if I if I can. >> Yeah. >> There's takana weddings available. You can make a vart in a house. You can make chevra in a house. >> You really can. If you're not doing that, it's because either you're more affluent and you want to throw a bigger party, right? or you're responding to social pressure and social needs and that can get very unhealthy if if you can make a wedding if you can get your daughter married right for let's say 50 grand soup the nuts right and you're spending 150 because you feel there's a social norm you can't blame that on the weddings you can't blame that on so like society to for someone to go in debt for a party a temporary fleeting party I I know that people do it and I understand the >> tinas. Yeah. >> But but to any but but if you have if you have an out >> to be able to so to speak realign your values >> and sit your kids down and say you want us to support you and you want us to make a wedding. Right? There's $100,000 of this money that we're putting into this wedding. If you want to make the wedding an X Y and Z place, switch it to the Tako places. And I know I'm putting myself in danger as a as a band right now as I'm saying this, but it's still true, you know, and you can't bring yourself to do that cuz of social pressure. There's introspection there. >> Wow. So, I want to let >> the comments flowing. I mean, >> you know, it's a reality. >> Listen, I never made a wedding, but um it should be easy and everything you need to make it and then some. I mean I mean I have four Le and her four girls. So >> yeah, time by the way is the biggest factor in financial planning. Would you agree? >> That's extremely important. Yes. >> It's not it's not the best investment. It's not the nec even the money that's being put away. It's the time I say I say that a lot, you know, >> but um but that's very important to emphasize how [sighs] someone has to stand up to the norms. I've been to Takana weddings. I think they're beautiful. I I'll be honest, me as a customer or a customer >> as person attending, right? >> Uh it's they're plenty plenty nice. Granted, a band like Blue Melody will enhance your Sima beyond but >> and it'll bring Bro to the family also and you'll see you'll be there'll be parnasa >> and it's a business shameless plug. Yeah, I'm sorry. >> And it's a business expense. >> Um so again, so I I I think I think that's very important to stand up to the norm. um you know >> right >> so I wanted to bring on another expense >> that to me I'll tell you the truth I'll also give a little not an anecdote but of my mother may she live and be well has been a teacher in a girl's high school for >> 40 years something like that and not mommy if you're making you older than what you are please forgive me [laughter] but somewhere around 40 years and I asked her this question about seminary >> is seminary necessary or not. And this is what she said to me and I want to bounce it off you, someone who's been through the suga. >> My second daughter is there right now. >> Second daughter. And we spoke about this a little bit. >> Yeah. >> Um I asked her, "Is it necessary?" And she said, "You know, it's not. But for the right person, it's life-changing and is worth the expense." This was the wisdom of Basa, my mother. um 40 years experience um in in a girl's high school. So I wanted to ask you now that you've been through it and >> you have the second daughter, you said seminary. >> And first of all, what did it cost you? >> Yeah. >> And what do you think about it? So let's answer the second question first because it's probably easier because the easier question is typically most them are going to run tuition is going to run probably in the upper 20s. Um then you're talking about I mean sorry up 26 >> and then you're talking about flights at least one right a couple grand if she comes home for yontiff which obviously is a choice it's uncomfortable it's hard to say that for pesak but uh but but it is a choice but if you're choosing to bring her home a second time that's a second flight another two grand right and that's before she spent a dollar there right before any before and before you've shopped for a wardrobe before she's got you know any money to spend now I it happens to I don't want my daughter to think that I don't appreciate what she's doing. We kind of made an arrangement that the um expendable stuff, a lot of it comes, some of it comes from her money, some of it from us, and when it comes to the actual needs, you know, transportation, things like that, that's coming from us. So, she's for the extras. She wants to go get an iced coffee the third time in the week, which she doesn't. She spends beautifully. I'm very proud of her. But, um, but if she wants an extra like that, in some cases, that'll be on her and some will provide. And that's another thing. You can make those arrangements with your kids also. It's important to be very open and honest about that. But you're looking at 3540 grand before for for a year in seminary. Now this I'm no no position to comment on my own personal opinions about the importance of seminary. I mean why aren't we having that conversation about yeshiva? It's Yiddish. But by a boy it's a mitzvah. By a girl it's also a mitzvah to learn. I'll tell you like this. I'll tell you that my first by my first daughter I could clearly see an impact that it had shaping her direction. and she's now a nurse in Lakewood and she's on track for um >> the NP. >> Yeah, NP. Yeah, she's on track to become an NP right now. And her drive to do that was to support her husband in learning as long as possible to build a beautiful house in Ro together >> and that shaped a lot of it. You know, I also I was super motivated by my my my my time init. And you know my my son it's a different my son in now it's kind of a different thing because he he's in Mir and he's growing and my next son is in in growing bashm and when they go to it kind of it kind of amplifies a lot of what's set into motion here it's I think it's a little bit different by the girls there's an independence that's there there's beautiful learning there's projects there's there there is that drive that's given I can't comment if it's right for everybody or not Nor can I comment if it's going to be right for everybody to the extent that they're going to beg, borrow, and steal, so to speak, god forbid, to, you know, to come up with that $35,000, that's a decision you're going to have to make. But I will tell you one thing. If you're not sure on it, if you're not clear on it, whether or not it's a value to you, then you're going to be you're going to be hemming and hawing and complaining, you know, as you're laying out for every dollar. If you're not 100% behind the need of what you're what you're what you're spending the money on, you're going to be miserable. >> What I need to understand for myself that seminary is of value >> before I before I'm ready to commit financially to that thing, >> right? If I didn't think it's important that I'm doing it because of pressure, that that's not great for anything. If I'm just doing it because because of society norms or I'm afraid it's going to affect >> again it's society pressure giving into you give I'm forcing you to give into things that you you haven't really thought through that's going to affect the way you approach it. You're going to be miserable at spending the money and it's going to affect your daughter. Are you excited to send me there or not? You're being misterish. >> She'll feel that. She's going to feel that and nobody's happy and then you know who knows that might affect the year also >> you know. >> Okay. >> Okay. So lot very good >> hard suga very hard suga. >> Do you might not be comfortable asking answering or me asking I don't know. Do you think the seminaries have the right to charge what they charge? Are they >> you know what with my with with my band or with with with any sale anybody has the right to charge whatever they think they need to charge. I don't think anybody in for 20 years a lot of different yeshivas. No one's getting rich off like it's like you know this you know no one's getting rich off I don't know anybody can ask anything that they think they need to charge whether or not I can pay it >> or I can afford to pay it or I think I need to pay it >> is a completely different conversation. >> I think that people will have a greater if they have a greater understanding of where they're really holding financially and you take that together with the question of well how important is this for my daughter's future? I mean, you would do anything for your daughter's future, right? I mean, when we spend this is why we're here, right? We're we're here to raise them. And if this is the next step in raising my child, I'm going to allocate those funds. I'm going to figure out how to make that money happen. >> You [clears throat] know, if you're not so sure, >> then maybe there's other ways to be madam to other other bees to to to raise them. I do think that if there was some sort of, you know, blanket way to get the get the funds down, more people will join and more people will be excited about it and more people can grow from it. That would be a beautiful uh beautiful answer. But I think we're all I think we've all been working on that. No one's found an answer for that yet. >> Well, the the question is, do you think seminary has become one of those like social norms that creates financial pressure on people? >> Yes. Yes, I do. >> You see that? >> Yes, I do. I absolutely do. And I think that there's there's pressure for the and again if it's the I will I will gladly endorse it if it if it's the best thing for my daughter. >> But if it's but in in a theor Thank you. In a theoretical in a theoretical scenario where I don't understand it. I didn't understand it and I'm just doing it because everybody else is doing it and it's and and they're going to look at my daughter funny if if I don't go. That's a disaster. Who's spending [clears throat] 40 grand just to keep up with the Joneses? That's you know but you have to understand that there's there has to be much more than that and I and I I see that there is >> I I want to say just in the middle of the podcast here if anyone has com really the main what fuels this podcast >> are your is your feedback whoever's out there and has thoughts >> and you know with Rabari over here saying a lot of things I would love to hear comments and feedback so don't u just ignore it or be silent my best to respond also >> and yeah and Rabari will respond and we'll talk about it and continue the conversation but don't forget to um to send feedback. Just wanted to cut that in. >> Um all right. So that's that's the seminary conversation. So >> So you married off one child, you've been through the seminary para. I've been working with you for a couple years. >> Um yeah, it's been amazing for me. Um what do you think um what would you tell everyone about the value? What do you think is the value of having a financial planner? because you know you didn't always have one and we met what 2 three years ago and two years ago two two and a half years ago we've been through a couple of uh stock market recessions you know we've been through a couple of of uh hiccups right >> um so what would you say is the is what is the value I'm going to I'm going to first just share one please from a like a personal testimony the biggest mistake that we made was not jumping in soon enough that's the that's the first the first thing to wait till our you 40s to get involved on a serious level. I mean, thank God I had, you know, we had some 401ks and things like that, but to get involved in a serious level to wait till now, um, I mean, you're not always to now, you know, but to to to really we pushed it off >> and I'm seeing already now from the Paris of of our time together, what would have been if I jumped in when I was when I was 25. Um, because money, you know, money loves time, right? There's uh that's Yeah, that's the bottom line. So that's that's number one to anybody listening whatever you can do any amount please jump in as fast as you can get involved build it financially now for my personal value I was never an expert in anything stock market or invested invested relating nor do I have the time to really investigate and make a lot of my own decisions. I I suppose at some point in the in the you know along the line I could have done a little bit of work and put some stuff on my own into a Vanguard or whatever. or I could have done that stuff but but on my own right to to to make these decisions on my own to spend the time on my own I wouldn't have made the right decisions right I I I wouldn't have had that clarity and the understanding of the peace of mind that there's somebody else looking out for my financial future my financial security as we discussed was to to me that's the greatest asset that every couple of months let's say you'll give me a call or shoot me a WhatsApp saying um you know Ari bonds are are are the thing now. So, we're going to shift some of what you got now into bonds. Is that is that okay? That's a great to me that's gold. So, I know that I don't have to worry about that because someone is worrying about those things for me. That's a huge value. Um also to point out things that I had never moved on like I needed to um we need to renew life insurance >> and and and and I I needed some handholding with that because there were some big decisions to be made life 20 term 80 things like that and the guidance from you I was super super grateful for. So um that's my understanding. I think also there's um there's a peace of mind aspect that knowing that you're working towards you know a nut in the future that you can reach into as you need to make these family simas. It really does it really does remove the stress level the anxiety level of what's going to be in the future. >> And as we're taught every day is a gift from Hashem and every day is only with Hashem's 100%. But we're in this world to to this is a bit this is a money podcast. I mean there's a reason for that where Hashem wants us to work and he wants us to and he wants to think ahead and that's where the financial planning comes in. >> I I appreciate that cuz your perspective I share the same perspective. Listen, you know runs the world. Um but you have to have your feet on the ground and plan. Um so what was the hardest part though? Like um was it just uh I'm not going to say it in a better way. Laziness that you didn't meet with a planner. >> There was definitely some laziness. That's a good part of it. I think um it it it took some some pushing so to speak over the cliff to commit to first of all we we all have this problem that we we we open up our our immediate checking and savings account, right? And if the if there's and we all have this like dollar amount like this fantasy dollar amount like oh if that amount is in the account then then I'll be happy, right? We all do this, right? And to to get off that cliff and say, well, that amount's not going to be there anymore. Okay, but it's not there because you're investing in in in in solid markets, right? or you're investing in, whatever it is. And not only that, like like you tell me, and most anytime you need the money, you can get that money back out of the account a day later. It just it's just not there. It's liquid. It's just it's not as liquid in the same way that I thought. And you're also used to seeing lower dollar amounts on your active checking accounts because we're doing monthly withdrawals, you know, and that that takes a little bit people again there's a level of security that people it's like a fear. Yeah, >> people have this fear. So, it took a while. Um, I'm not calling you lazy. God forbid, >> we're all lazy. >> But, um, it there's a fear of having investments, not seeing it in your bank account. I think a lot of people have a fear of opening up uh because money is I think second to health um on someone's mind is money. Yeah. I think from what I see people are very their money is on the top of the >> I think it's first because they're taking their health for granted. >> You know theoretically the health they assume they have the money they're all worried about where it's going to come tomorrow. >> That's maybe you're right. Yeah, I I I I think one point should not be understated is that living as a so to speak middle class, you know, Torah Jew, right, is a is a is you're living a miraculous life. We don't feel that way from a day-to-day basis because we're we're we're engulfed, you know, in this world of, you know, of of of of meeting the deadlines and paying the bills and keeping up with the Joneses and and and and perhaps the social pressure. And some of that is completely maybe unjustified, but a lot of it is is normal. Meaning, if you're a Jew today, middle so to speak, in our middle class bracket that you're talking about, you're living an exemplary lifestyle. you're living an amazing amazing life already and you shouldn't approach it like oh something is wrong with me I can't like it's it's an it's an amazing to live this this this kind of life so you're normal there's nothing wrong with you this thank god if if if this is our generation's problem great you know what a beautiful what a beautiful problem to have >> so do you let me ask you Ari so do you eat out do you buy pizza >> so that it's so funny I'm I'm glad you asked about that >> get coffee right do we budget right do we budget I'm I'm not the best guy at budging the small little things, but the pizza is actually a very good example because we my wife and I did have this conversation. I mean, your personal we've talked about this in the in the past. Your your personal focus of financial planning is less on the lifestyle and more in the building for the future, right? >> And that's right. >> And I and and that's, you know, that's that's great certainly for someone like me that's probably not so good at all the self-control all the time. But when I talk to my wife about these things, we we we do find some little things to cut. And it's funny you mentioned pizza. Like there's less of us in the house now because four of my seven kids are, you know, dorming or living out of the house. And we actually, as an experiment, we made a switch from, you know, ordering in pizza every Thursday night, right, to my wife taking a major pizza dough and making a pizza in a Betty Betty Crocker. >> So instead of 45 bucks a week, >> we're spending now like seven bucks, you know, a week. So, there's almost $40 savings weekly, which is $160 over a month. That's $1,200 over a year. That's that's a real That's a real savings. >> I don't write down every cup of coffee. Happens to be I use Nespresso, so every cup of coffee comes out, let's say, less than a dollar a cup, which is a heck of a lot cheaper than Starbucks. >> Yeah. >> Right. Quarter of the price. >> Um, >> yeah. >> Eating out is insanely expensive. >> So, you do eat out or you don't? >> We We eat out as a celebration. and we eat out when my wife and I really need to to eat out and and but we also recognize that's kind of like our slush fund because we know that like that same meal can be at home for pennies on the dollar, you know, >> it's you want to call it tya, I think it's personal needs, you know, that's that's that's lifestyle. But I think there's a lot of little places that we can really just focus on hitting one or two of those things and all of a sudden someone's generated a couple grand a year >> with with minimal effect on their lifestyle. Mhm. >> I think everybody can find >> this doesn't stress you out like this kind of making homemade pizza which tastes very good >> because it's only that one thing >> meaning we shabas anyone's been like we're balling out on shabas eating shabas >> yeah right so we're doing all those things you know and I feel bad if someone can't do that that's already a rough sh do I do I minimize there do I not minimize there but but there's certainly enough of that that you can still uh you can still find significant savings if you if you search for them. >> I would just uh emphasize what Ari said um in the middle of those that uh what you were saying that um my my approach to budgeting and I think I heard I think I heard positive feedback on it is that I don't really um sit down with people and say what they should or shouldn't spend money on >> because in my opinion money is sort of meant to be spent. Now if a person has their own you know hashkuffas and things like that I don't get involved in that. What I do get involved in is that if you want to spend money you have to first check your boxes and make sure you're financially secure for your children retirement insurance. >> That's my approach. Um, I think it sits well with a lot of people because I don't think it's comfortable for me or for them when we sit down and go through, uh, you know, uh, digesting or dissecting their, uh, I [snorts] hear that. >> Has that been your experience? >> Absolutely. I mean, I can't I mean, maybe other people are capable of it. I can't imagine a life in which I have to really, you know, worry that every dollar I'm spending is too much. And and I'm not talking about Kasam. People have struggles. I'm not saying they're wrong in their struggles, but but but to to to to choose that mentality, [clears throat] you're choosing a life of worry and fear and and and whatever it is. The the goal is to get yourself into a life that you feel comfortable and happy and enjoyable >> at the same time that fits with your budget, that fits with your with your life. >> I think that's really the goal. >> Yes. >> You know, with two spouses working, first of all, most spouses are working. They're working mothers. That's already a full-time job, right? >> So, that's uh something. But, um you know, I find it very hard to in the middle class, it's difficult when both spouses aren't working. Um but I did say this before and I'll say it that to get some kind of side hustle that generates $500 a month, $500 a month, $6,000 a year or $1,000 a month is very easy. And sometimes that extra few hundred, and you can tell me if I'm I'm wrong, that extra few hundred or $1,000 a month can take you from the point of being, you know, surviving to the point of actually being able to go on offense and put away money. So, I I think that it's very difficult when only one spouse works. But the flip side is you don't have to get a job in, you know, a top four accounting firm and never come home. You can >> get a side hustle. So, what are your thoughts? There's a balance here between this is a work life, you know, a balance certainly for Jewish family balance for a Jewish mother. You know, the Akaras. How does your wife work? >> My wife has been working for for I think 23 she's been teaching before we got married, but she's I think she's been working for 23 years at Magen. And yeah, she has a great position there. Bashm teacher um but >> she works because she personally always felt she's not a homebody. She's a teacher. She's she guides. She has tons of tummy that seek her guidance and beautiful things. She's got she does something very special there. You know, maybe part of that ego thing we talked about before. I was always very clear to her that like if you want to go home and you want to stop working, that's on go forth. Like it's on me to provide, you know, I don't know if that was right or wrong. That's what I felt. And I always told her that and she keeps working and she stays where she is. And um I think that I think that she wanted to do that anyway. So, I guess we were more fortunate when you when you have a situation that the wife doesn't work or can't work. Sometimes you have a situation there's no one to watch the kids. There's babies at home and there's no one to babysit. You know, obviously you have to financially plan for that. And the balance between the mother being a bread winner and the mother being the mother of your children is a is a super difficult balance to dictate. And I'm I'm not super brilliant, but I'm smart enough not to sit on this podcast and tell any mother that's listening what their financial and parenting roles are. I'm going to sit that one out. Let them, you know, make your own uh make your make your own conclusion. But there's no but I but the side hustle thing is very interesting. I feel like this is a recent development. There's more ways than ever before >> to come up with money. Everybody's Everybody's got ways they can they can stream, they can tutor, they can share, you can sell some stuff online. You can you can sell dollar. Everybody's got extra ways they could hustle and and everybody's advertising. You turn on your phone and there's a million ways people are selling everything. I make cupcakes in my house. I make sourdough in my house. And they wouldn't be they wouldn't be doing it if people weren't buying. >> You know, I mean, we're a we're a we're a what's it called? Society. We're a consumerism society which has a lot of problems attached to it. But but for you to figure out how to make some extra money, there's a lot of new opportunities out there. Take them and like you're saying, put that money put that money aside, invest that money and let it let it let it grow. Don't look at it. Don't think about it. And then 15 20 years from now, you've got something you can draw from to make simplist from or to retire with. Now, so do you think that number that I was saying for you personally, the amount of money you're saving and putting in your retirement for your children and and long-term and the insurance, [snorts] >> is that a hefty sum for you? Or is that >> taking money that's, you know, not gas change, but something that's, you know, some something that's not crazy, decent, but not crazy, and is making the most of it. Do you feel like you're making the most of your money when you create this plan? >> Oh, absolutely. That's the easy. Yeah, that's the that's probably the easiest. >> And is it a crazy amount of money? Do you feel like it's a crazy amount of money that you need to be secure financially um when you like put away things long term or or for insurance? >> No, I don't think so. It's just given over time. >> I don't view any amount as exorbitant or, you know, or minuscule based on the amount itself. The way I look at it is is is can I afford it? you know, if it's in if if I if I'm still paying the bills, putting this money away, then great. It's probably the be one of the best things I could do with the money. >> And and and you would say for the average middle class person, it's doable. It's doable to do something. >> It's more than doable because because I think I'm forgive interrupting you. It's it's doable because I don't even think it's about the dollar amount. It's about the monthly dedication and letting it grow over time. That's going to make the bigger difference >> than the actual amount. I think you've told me many times if you can't swing X or cut it down, >> right? >> You know, be in touch with me, cut it down, but keep it consistent. Keep it consistent. >> Make it automatic. >> Automatic deposits are the eighth wonder of the world and compound interest. >> Compound interest. >> You have automatic deposits. It happens. >> I always say the example of someone who's, you know, became a employee and signed up for their 401k. >> They have a retirement because they clicked the mouse. The other person didn't. You know, that's all >> it's amazing. That's, you know, how money that simple. That's all comes down to how money works. >> Uh, we're going to wrap up. It was an amazing conversation. Yes. It was my and privilege and pleasure >> to have you as our first guest. You did a major mitzvah, a lot of mitzvah. >> Um, I love how you balance and gashmas. It's it's important to stress that, you know, in financial planning, you could lose sight of unfortunately the one who controls everything. The bigger picture. that is the bigger picture. But you brought I was appreciative really of your transparency and um you know working with you um and um any other final thoughts on you? >> It was absolutely my honor. Thank you. And and I joined with the hope of really being able to not only share my experience and situation with as many people as possible um but to give them the understanding that that that they're not the only ones, number one. And number two, the awareness that we're really living this unbelievably miraculous lifestyle and not not to lose sight of that. >> Um, and third to anybody that's so to speak earlier in the journey than I am to show you you can do this, you can get through it. There's beautiful ways to get through it. Sat Deshaya financial planning, thinking logically, thinking reasonably and uh and we should both know uh success. Everybody listening should know just tremendous tremendous spiritual success and fin all the financial success all the gosh music success they need to back it up. Amain and don't forget the comments and the feedback. Send them over. I'd love to hear from you.