The Two Faces of Matzah by Rabbi Yitzchak Breitowitz

good morning everybody hope you're well uh you know Kaz tell us uh unfortun I don't have the uh headphone today so I'll try to talk a little louder uh thear tells us that we were redeemed in the month of Nissan and the future Redemption will occur in the month of Nissan now of course mashia can come anytime but Nissan is the most probable Nissan is mugal to be the month of of GAA every Nissan we of course hope that that'll be the month of gula uh obviously at a time when am Israel is still undergoing a difficult sah a m that is going on uh hostages who still have not been released uh certainly we we yearn even more that this should be a month of GAA and Yeshua may we see the G of is Shalom is and ultimately the coming of mashia in the in the world Amen um I want to talk about it's very very interesting you know there's a lot of things that we may have learned you know in first grade kindergarten things that we've heard all of our lives and yet as you get older you begin to think about them and some things don't make sense even though we were taught this all of our lives and I want to discuss a little bit the story of matah I know you want I'll get the too eventually uh but why why do we eat mat so it's clear from the ha itself and really from the Torah itself in par that there are two different reasons why we eat matah matah is a symbol that commemorates two things one is matah is called Oni the bread of Affliction the bread of poverty the bread of suffering uh it was the food that slaves were commonly fed and at the ezzar himself writes that he visited India and he saw the maraji giving their slaves matah or unle unleavened bread because it's heavy and it sticks in your stomach a very long time and as a result you don't have to be fed that often so matah some type of unleavened bread was the common food of the slave so the same way when I eat marar I remember the bitterness of slavery matah is a commemoration of the slavery that's one reason and that's only there is another reason that it is connected toon it was connected by the hurriedness that we were we were kicked out of M that's what I'm going to talk about in more more length in in a moment we were kicked out of MIT we didn't have time to let our D rise so mat commemorates Goa so mat is a complicated symbol Mor represents totally slavery that's it the four cups of wine is redemption and freedom matah is a little complicated because matah is both a slavery symbol and a Redemption symbol and indeed this is highlighted in the hag where the matah is discussed two different places in the beginning of the Seda we point to the matah and we say because this was written after theban this is the bread of poverty the bread of Affliction Leon is is Aramaic lman that our forefathers ate in Egypt what do we mean our forefathers at in Egypt when they were slaves and yet at the end of the maget we quote Rin Gamel and he says anyone that does not explain the three mitzvos of P mat has notot his Mitzvah or her Mitzvah and when it explains matah it talks about he speak say come there was not enough time for the D to rise and become leavened so the hag begins with the matah of slavery and the maget ends with the matah of Freedom which is actually very very good because the whole is the transition of and therefore the idea is matah is a double symbol by the way just as little as side theel who who wrote wrote many many commentaries on and he also wrote a voluminous Parish on the ha as well as peros so on the ha you know the Abel's General Shea and this is throughout all of his commentaries is he will take a certain section and ask many many many questions sometimes 20 30 40 50 100 and then he'll give a shot that will answer all of the questions so there's an old joke that a person became an aporus by reading a barbanel because he used to love to read the arabel's commentary after lunch on chabas after he had his chant so he would sit in his easy chair he would read 100 kasas on the Torah and he fell asleep before he read the anwers so he says oh so many kasas contradict I in consistencies right so it's a little dangerous to have so many cases but in his Parish the he actually does that he is 100 KES on the ha and then he explains it but in the Manish just want to share a little V with you just the manani says a very interesting thing he says that the kid that's asking the Manish Tana first of all it's a strange thing he must be a smart kid because he knows things we haven't done yet in other words he knows the Seder because we haven't dipped twice so if he knows what we're going to do why doesn't he remember the answer like it's a kind of a selective memory exactly uh what type of kid are we talking about but the barbanel says that the kid is asking a conceptual C he's asking his parents what is it that we're celebrating the Seder night are we remembering slavery or are we celebrating freedom because we do both things the first one is uh we eat matah so matah is both slavery and Freedom the second question is we eat bitter herbs which is uh slavery the third is we dip twice which is a luxury of freedom and the fourth is we recline which is also an expression of luxury and freedom so what is it we have some signs of slavery some signs of Freedom which is it so the ranel says the four words after my or five words those are four words God took us out that's the answer you're asking are we doing slavery or Freedom the answer is we doing both we were slaves and Hashem took us out in other words because people ask the question that's another question people ask that there is never an explicit answer to the four questions yeah of course you can tease it out from the whole narrative but there's never really an answer meaning the kid asks four questions and we don't really answer the four questions the answer to the first question is this second question is this we give a whole story out of which you could figure things out but the ranel says that one sentence is the answer to the man because the kid is not simply asking about the particular rituals he's asking if the Shader is about or the S there is about and the answer is it is about both okay so be it as it may when it comes to mat though matah is a dual symbol one is only and the other is speak say there was no time okay so here is the problem here is the big problem inos which was given Roes two weeks before 15 days before we read it in the ma this past week wases Hashem gives Moshe a lot of laws about the holiday of PES about the Corbin PES and the like remember these laws are given two weeks before the Exodus among those laws are for seven days you're not allowed to eat you must eat matah you're not even allowed to own that means two weeks before the Exodus we were already given a Commandments not to eat to eat matah at least the first night and not to own and indeed when we had our first Sader right our first seder was on the uh the night of the 15th we brought the Corbin PES on the 14th we ate mat alos you have to eat matah and mo so they actually ate matah the night before they left MIT so here's the problem how can you say that the reason why we eat matah is to commemorate the by which we had to leave MIT we were already told not to eat and to eat matah two weeks before now I want to point out this question is a little stronger than you might you might make it the question is not you could you can ask the question in two ways in one way it's not so difficult the question is well how could this be the reason if the Mitzvah was given before that's one way of asking the question how could a reason for a Mitzvah be something that didn't arise till later that actually is one way people ask the question that's not so difficult God gave a Mitzvah in advance of the reason that would materialize later in other words that doesn't bother me so much mat you know Etc but what bothers me is this the fact that the Commandment was given before means the whole reason doesn't apply anymore because what are you telling me you're telling me in the morning they have to bake bread and they didn't have time to let their door rise because the Egyptians said or Hashem said you got to leave now what do you mean even if the Egyptians or even God would have said ah you have the whole day we still wouldn't have been allowed to beg because we were commanded two weeks before not to have in other words the reason self-destructs it's not just God gave a Mitzvah before we knew the reason that that actually is not such a big question God can give you many m f and you'll discover the reason later the question is a much more difficult question and that is in light of the fact that we were already prohibited not only from eating Kitz but from E even owning kit we read we read that yesterday then by the time we're baking our bread the morning of the 15th we're not allowed to bake so how does show how does the lack of K show we left Egypt in a hurry it has nothing to do with leaving Egypt because even it has nothing to do with leaving Egypt in a hurry because even if we didn't have to leave it in a hurry we would have to bake it as matah and not as so the whole reason of becomes a self destroyed reason because we already were prohibited from eating well not just eating Kamas but from owning having already and that was a Prohibition that was given Roes 2 weeks 15 days before PES it's a tremendously good Kasha meaning how is it the whole reason of even if they would have had the time they couldn't have done it so there are two answers to this uh answer number actually both of them are unfortunately quite complicated um I'll start with the Les of the two complicated answers but both are complicated uh answer number one is given by the Run r one of the great rishonim who lived in Spain in the 1400s uh by the way he's not only wrote great commentaries on on gamorra and on the Riff he also wrote a one of the greatest uh small books on Jewish philosophy called jaran Art scr recently translated it and the like uh so he was also a very very great philosopher as well as a physician so in those days uh we were less stratified people were able to be G Torah and Physicians and everything else in between the rashah by the way was a banker so you know people had different different types of professions um okay this is what thean says thean points out that there is a difference between P meaning the first P that was observed in Egypt that one PES right that first PES and p p as it would be observed from then on and he points out and he has and I'll show you a proof from theuk themselves the Easter of was only the first day meaning in MIT that first PES well including when they left but that first year the is of was only number one number two the iser was only eating the iser was not owning in other words the ran posits again he brings proofs to this and I actually I'll show you a textual proof of this the Ron posits there were two distinctions between p and P distinction number one is p the E of eating was only on the 15th of you know AR p and the 15th of Nissan it did not apply from the 16th onward number two even on the 15th they were allowed to own now there's the is of did not kick in until the next year so based on these two reasonings we can Now understand the story The ran says the Jewish people get up after makas after that whole night I'm not sure if anybody slept actually but in the morning they want to bake their bread now the truth of the matter is is a difficult question what do you mean they didn't have time to let their door rise when did the Jews leave MIT they didn't leave mitam at the crack of dawn they left at High Noon so why didn't they have time to bake their bread they could have baked their bread from 700 a.m. you know to to noon that's a whole K but the answer is you know uh everybody thinks they have more time than meaning it wasn't intrinsically a rush but Lisa people were baking their bread the last minute not realizing there wouldn't be a last minute so here's the thing the ran says it is true that the night before they already ate matah at the Seder and it is true that on that day they're not allowed to eat KET but they would have been allowed to bake ketz because you're allowed to own kets on the 15th and they could bake theet to be eaten the next day and therefore here's what the ran says had they been given time to let their dough rice they would have baked bread on the 15th of Nissan not to eat on that day but to eat the next day however they didn't have time to let their D rise so it had to be matah so because of that God commanded that we don't eat thees for all seven days and we don't um we don't own uh even on the first day starting from the first day okay so that's what the ran says so the ran says the idea that had they had time to let their dough rise they would have baked bread on the 15th they wouldn't have been allowed to eat it but they would have been allowed to hold it to eat the next day but because they didn't have time to let their doise Hashem was K that there's an iser of seven days now the question you might ask me is well wait a second here if I go back toes which was given it does say Don't eat for seven days and don't own meaning that didn't come later that was built into the original par itself so if you look um I don't have a let's see if I have I have aish here well okay I don't remember the exact wording but but if you look at the it's very very clear if you read it very very carefully uh it talks about you know you have to eat matah the night of PES you know Etc and then it says and when you come into the land later you shall not have k for seven days which means it's very very clear that the seven anything to do with the seven days was not connected to P which actually means when the Jewish people first hear this Mitzvah they don't know the meaning of it meaning the following when they are told that when you get to the land or the desert that's also a little bit of a problem you are not allowed to own and you cannot eat for seven days they don't yet know you see they don't yet know the reason for that the reason for that is going to be nital only the next morning when it's so yes the 7day Mitzvah they were told is not going to be operative till a later time but they don't know the reason why it's going to become operative at a later time they didn't know the reason until the next morning when they realize ah that is the reason for the one night huh ah very good so I'll come back to that yeah that's that's good question okay so this is how the Ron understands the story so it's a lot more complicated than what we might have heard you know when we when we were children uh because in point of fact they weren't allowed to eat bread on that first day but they would have been allowed to bake the bread and save it for the next day but because we didn't have time to let it rise Hashem then said we will commemorate that for that 7day 7day period which means so now let's ask this question so that first seder when they ate matah that first Sader when they ate matah what was the symbolic significance of their eating the mat that first night since the of did not occur until the next day the answer is mat only had a single symbolic value it was only in other words matah acquired a dual symbolism only starting in year 2 in year one it only had the symbolism of Leon now this is very very interesting because this actually has some Hal practical halakic ramifications let me talk a little bit I'm not sure I'm not sure if I talked about it last week so forgive me if I'm repeating a little bit let me talk a little briefly about egg Mata a little right there's a very popular product uh in the market uh called egg matah a matah that's made with egg yolk with chocolate with fruit juice with honey all sorts of different things and the Hebrew halakic term for this type of product is called mat air again that's an opposite of Leoni matah has to be poor man's bread unadorned with any type of flavorings but when you add flavoring you add egg yolk and honey and chocolate and fruit juice that's called now the one that everybody agrees to without without any m is you cannot use mat for the S mat the Mitzvah of mat cannot be through that's no whatsoever and the reason is because the T describes theah as only the big Shila is okay I can't use egg mat at the Seder but can I eat egg matah during PES you during PES so here you have a big M Ash and so kitne is not only is not the only area of M the again this is a big Su in the Gar so I'm not giving you all the background but just to give you the bottom line thein EG is not EG is mat it's not so I can't use it at the Seder but egg mat is a perfectly acceptable product during PES so I can eat egg matah mat during p no problem and by the way many ashim before the agreed to that the maral of who was an older contemporary of RMA specifically says there is no problem with egg Mata whatsoever and to is the same way but the r bring a that our Min is the of although there are many is we don't eat egg mat at all during PES because we are afraid of a that when you mix fruit juice or egg yolk with water perhaps that accelerates the process meaning normally is 18 minutes so you make mat under 18 minutes and you're okay but maybe this is a m so our Min is not to eat it but this is a very inconsistent Min because you're allowed to own it if it would be you wouldn't be allowed to own it and you can give it to a a sick person who's unable to chew very well because is softer not for the Seder but but for other and a so it's an inconsistent I don't need it because maybe it's on the other hand I can keep it in the house and and I and give it to kids so this was a very interesting little story in the annals of American hashas you know when you used to have the big old Mah companies I think most of them are not around anymore Hartz margareten I think manevitz is still around but whatever uh so when they when they made egg Mata many of them on one hand you're not supposed to eat it if you're ashkanazi but they don't want to put on the package don't eat it so so they put they put in Hebrew iron in Hebrew Hebrew Hebrew letters Hebrew words now most people who didn't know just assume that was another he uh they certainly weren't gonna look up but don't eat this so who was the ra ofes he said g this is deceptive and he was the one who started he demanded that they put in English a conspicuous English like a pack of cigarettes this product can only be eaten by the elderly by by children and should not be eaten by healthy ashkanazi Jews or whatever whatever it would be so he was the one who insisted and I think since then I think maybe they start they start doing it but this is matahir now as I say this is a of the Rama which we follow because if you're I mean if we're ashkanazi we follow it but I do want to note there were many many great ashkanazi poim who agreed with the that there is no problem with egg matah and I included maral and even much earlier than maral um it seems to be clear from rabam rashi's grandson that mat would be would be much even on PES itself okay so now can I just yeah on the first night do you need symbolism of poverty when you're still poor in other words what what was a simple for oh in other words because they were because they were slaves yeah yeah uh it's a good point uh but I think the idea is they are slaves although they stopped working rashash before right so they weren't totally slaves but I think uh the idea is just like eating Mara right Mara for sure is a symbol of slavery that Hashem is telling you that even though you're being redeemed always remember that you were slaves meaning it's kind of a reminder don't turn your back on your p this is a very important Point remember um this is more of a general point when the Torah talks about uh having compassion for the G for the stranger people who are vulnerable people who are without power people who are without protea people without connections the Torah always connects it because you were slaves You Were Strangers in Egypt so in a sense it's a very important message don't turn your back on the suffering that you endured even though you're leaving it remember it always so so there is a certain meaningfulness in remembering that in the sense that you want it to be emblazoned in your in your Consciousness yeah yeah on first night they eat M yeah as slaves but they eat it precisely because Hashem said so yes so there is a gra of Freedom there already they listen to hasem okay all right that's true true that's true but but all I'm saying is it wouldn't be connected to the dough couldn't rise that's all it didn't happen yet yeah consider okay absolutely not other words as long as uh this is the question of soft matah as long as the only ingredients are flour and water whether it's hard or whether it's soft that is called Le so yite matah is and indeed in all probability I don't know for sure that may have been the actual Mata that the Jewish people ate in MIT so so this is a this is a big again this is a big big uh takes the very sensible position why not I mean as obey the same laws ofes other than matahir and this is not matahir so if it's a reliable on matah why not soal held that the soft mat is perfectly okay others say you know ashm don't have that M we don't have that tradition so I mean not that my makes a difference I mean I would I would someone would ask me I would say it's it's fine I don't see any problem with it but there are those who are very mid on the on the m in fact the same thing is true with any any what you might call non-conventional matah uh oat matah uh spelt matah different things Ry matah know if there is ryat all of them are Kosher obviously but some say we don't have a m our m is wheat and therefore we don't go beyond we don't go beyond weeds so there are more traditional and there's more looking at it in terms of the overlying concept okay so everyone understands the Ron's idea now I I'm sorry uh did you want yeah so I thought that except that everybody else would not be eating bread would be eating na [Music] generally say say again I didn't hear you I would have thought is for being slaves at that point except for a baby right that they would not be in the habit of eating bread yeah that's that's correct meaning that's what the that's the Leon because the slaves generally ate matah so what what God is commanding is the night of your freedom you must still remember your slavery that that's the that that would be the idea making bread for the next day oh no no that that actually fits very well because if bread is the food of Freedom it actually makes sense that hey now we're going to make bread I mean that actually fits very very well we were in the habit of matah now it's a new life so that that I think that fits very well why they would want BFA want to make bread even know how to make well you know I don't know they they they they went online and looked at that yeah um okay Al righty so this is the round a very very interesting now now let me share with you an interesting haur of rakov ketki based on this on this idea you know uh even though the Torah says you shall eat mat for seven days that's what the says but we know's interpretation that the of eating matah the obligation of eating matah is only the first night that's another puzz be Matos and the sh is really a negative about meaning you are permitted to eat mat for seven days but not in other words it's not a to mat it's simply an implication of the negative prohibition of right so this is the common idea that first night is an obligation the rest of P other than for putting that aside if you want to have mat have matah if you don't want to have mat you don't have to have matah a lot of people don't eat matah the rest of P actually some some of them for reasons some are afraid if you're M on G so some people have a super on top of gabra mean gabra is matah that comes in contact with liquid they say I'm not going to eat dry matah because maybe it'll come in contact with liquid so there actually is a on top of gabra not eat any Mas they say the b the B taka did not eat any matah beyond the kazm of the of the Seder itself okay but there is a sheet of the vagon very interesting she the vagon says that there is in fact a mitzvah a Mitzvah to eat matah every single day of PES and because we do not violate the simple meaning of the verse the verse says but the says it is what we call a and not a mitv okay what is the terminology here is a Mitzvah you must do and if you don't do it it's a sin in God's eyes a mitvah is a something if I do it Hashem will reward me for a good thing but if I don't do it I'm not going to get punished it's not an obligation um ra mosha says for example this is a big big I don't want to get into it everyone knows the ramban's that living in erel is a Mitzvah we know that's the ramban's opinion ra Moshe wants to say it's a but not but the EMS say that's a very very minority opinion um virtually everybody understands the ran that it's okay that's but eating mat so the first night of P eating mat is the rest of PES the Von says it's it's right so this is the Von now because it's and not we do not make a on it because when do I make a on a Mitzvah only when when Hashem has commanded me then I make a but if something is a good deed which is meritorious but it's not an obligation you don't make a so those who are like the will try to eat at least a Kaz of matah actually would be sh matah every day of P now this is the V so now let me share with you the Kish of rakov ketki it's a very very fascinating Kish keski wants to say that the meaning of matah the first night of p is different than the meaning of matah the other days of P because the first night of P we were given that Mitzvah even before the Do Not Rising so as I said before that means the of eating matah at the Seder initially was only because of and even though in year two we have the additional symbolism added but the original imprinting of the Mitzvah with its association with the bread of poverty and slavery remains and that is why you cannot use at the Seder matah ashir because matah asir is BFA not the bread of slaves it's the bread of wealthy people that can incorporate all of the fancy ingredients in the matah but says rakov the prohibition of the rest of the week and the Mitzvah of eating mat the rest of the week would not be because of Leon it would only be be to commemorate the that we didn't have time to let our door rise so says rakov ketki matahir is just as good a commemoration as regular matah because here's the point bread is matah is unleavened because you didn't let the dough rise so when I eat something unleavened I'm commemorating the haste by which we left M right now that particular thing can be equally fulfilled with egg mat egg mat also didn't rise and become so egg the Sader is not good because it's noton now again rakov is is this does not work like the r like the ra you can't eatat at all but but let's put aside the r let's just look at the that egg matah could be eaten the rest of p as do as the maral says as to says and the like soov is the MIT of matah the rest of the week can in fact be fulfilled even by mat because the symbolic meaning of M during the week is exclusively and only is the motif only for Le seder which preceded the leis now as I say this is a very very fascinating but for a regular asazi it's not NOA because the ra is we don't eat EGA during the week right but but in theory if you followed the that EG mat is permitted during the week you could fulfill the Mitzvah even with matah matah of course I think there's another problem though and you're going to have to get special order of egat because the Mitzvah of mat is fulfilled this is why we have shimura only if it was specifically made for the Mitzvah which is not is not Kosher for the S because it wasn't done Mitzvah so here's the dilemma I think rakov has even if you're going to say egg matah is valid for the Mitzvah of matah that's only if the egg mat was made shame mat you're gonna have to have sh it's a new new business Niche Ur egg mat for those who want to for those who want to follow the Von in already some unusual mix for those who want to follow the we can have sh sh Mitzvah again fascinating but again it's very it's a very logical construct because the S matah is plus the other idea the matah during the week is to commemorate the of on the he says egg matah is just as good as regular matah it didn't rise it reminds us of the haste by which we had to leave leave M now I want to mention though that Mahar of prag much much earlier even has a bigger than and that's following let me go back to a mishna in the 10th peric of right arim the 10th peric of is the peric about all the laws of the Seder in fact I would urge people if you have time uh to learn the whole peric would be you know difficult it's a big complicated peric but at least do the mishna if you want to know the basic talmudic sources for how a Seder is conducted the mishna Lays it out including a a lot of the text of the is taken every person must regard himself as if they were taken out of that is in the mishna r g says anyone that doesn't explain is not that's in the mishna uh the man the Manana with some differences are in the mishna right so uh it's a worthwhile limit with your children grandchildren to actually learn the uh either before PES ideally or during itself to learn the Mish of but the mishna begins with the following rule adjacent to time I'll discuss that in the moment you should not eat in other words you don't eat at a certain time of the day you stop eating because we don't want to ruin your appetite for the matah of the Seder you should eat it with enthusiasm with kmak so you shouldn't eat eat now what is so again without getting into all the background is essentially the last three hours of the day meaning to say uh from the beginning of the 10th hour hour 10 11 12 the last three hours of the day you don't eat I I'll discuss what you don't eat now when I say hours you understand that we mean hours so you have to look at a calendar we don't mean fixed hours of 60 minutes but we mean uh one you know an hour is 1 12th of the daylight from sunrise to sunset so in the winter for example a hour could be as as short as 45 minutes in the summer it can be as long as 75 or 80 minutes okay hour which means uh the last three hours of the day is the last quarter of daylight right don't eat the last quarter of the day that's called Su adjacent to the time now toos asks the following question what is it that you're not allowed to eat once you hit that red zone of it can't refer to because Kates you already couldn't eat from the morning after four hours you can't eatates so that's way gone it can't be matah matah is even user earlier than you're not allowed to eat now some people don't eat mat fromes but you can't eat mat from the morning of P the expression of thei is anyone who eats matah on AR PES is as if he is having uh intercourse with his betra uh before the meaning to say yeah eventually you'll you'll get together with your matah but now is not the right time don't jump the gun you can't eat already you can't eat mat already so what's left ah so well plenty is left eggs and fish and vegetables and meat says but that you're allowed to eat you actually are allowed to eat nonos items I could eat that till the end of the day I can have filter fish I can have uh I can have um hard-boiled egg I can have whatever so the tysus asked a very simple question what is it that you're not allowed to eat once you hit so R says this is the r I alluded to for ah you would be allowed to eat egg matah until reason EG is not this is what says it's mat but it's not within the prohibition of eating matah of P because the only mat you're not allowed to eat on a of p is the type of mat that you could be Y at the Seder and since you cannot be Y at the Seder with matah air you can eat it on a of P until until you reach the level of because it may ruin your appetite so first of all you see you see the r would not agree with the RAR ra is permitting me to eat egg mat on ER P after the and by that logic I could eat it on P itself you see uh so you see you very clearly see that as well as the maral did not agree with the r like the Rama you would not be allowed to eat from from from the time you cannot eat bread four hours in the morning four hours you cannot eat but this is what the this is what rabam says so rabam says what is the thing that gets forbidden it's not because that was forbidden from 4 hours it's not matah because that was forbidden from the morning of er of PES it's not eggs and meat and cheese and potatoes that's M so what is left mat which I could eat the whole day until I hit uh the where we don't want you to ruin your appetite now here is what myal says and this is going to be even a bigger Kish than re of ketki maral disagrees with r now remember isal actually says you can eat during P like but here is what myal says myal says let's say you're at your seder and you're really messed up you don't have any matah for your seder the only thing you have is egg matah so says the maral putting aside shura which I'll get to putting aside that's going to be that's going to be a biggie but this is a theoretical says the mar you can even be at the Seder with mat without a and he says the following reason because after the first year the eating of matah the Seder has two symbols it's a commemoration of slavery and Leon but it's also a reminder of the haste by which we left MIT and similar to what daka's argument was that even though mat is not connected to Leon but it can still commemorate the haste because it didn't rise so if a Mitzvah is supposed to have two symbols and you're only m one symbol better to do one than nothing and therefore RAV yakov's argument is not the maral's argument is see RAV yakov's argument was simply I can use mat for the rest of the week is much bigger there is an inion of eating matu Aira even at the Seder if you don't have any choice because the still applies even in mat therefore here's what maral says on one hand this is a tremendous leniency I should eat this on the other hand it'll lead to a he therefore says if mat can be a partial fulfillment of matah it will be user to eat it on a of PES because remember was that since you're not y with it you can eat it P maral says since you are y with it you can't eat of P so actually so whatever your leniency is for the S will be your an of P therefore maral says we're back to square one in terms of what are you not allowed to eat it can't be you're already forbidden for four hours it can't be mat you're forbidden from the morning it can't be mat because that's going to be n in the prohibition of matah so Mar learns answer it says oh yeah and it can't be fish and eggs and cheese and all that stuff because you're allowed to have it you are allowed to have it answer is very P yeah you're allowed to have it but don't stuff yourself so when it says doesn't have to mean don't eat anything but it means don't overeat so what is that you shouldn't overeat on the Poes the eggs the fish the meat whatever it would be me uh there is nothing new that gets totally interdicted meaning the total interdictions of that's already come into being there's nothing that you're totally prohibited in that you're not already prohibited in but loo do not fill your your stomach so a very very fascinating so is a for the rest of the maral suggests that it might even be a for the Seder itself although you would not make a a as I say none of this works with the r for but uh if you follow again the maral himself and re they are both presupposing that egat is okay yeah this sounds almost like why you C no you know that's certainly you know that absolutely is certainly possible and and it probably is even optimal and Superior we're talking about you know be theid if I don't have the other one is there some concept of second best so really we've been analyzing second best ways of doing things I think you're correct optimally you should incorporate both both ideas yeah yeah I was wondering if there's any significance to seems more even more important than mat yeah yeah so sacrifices as well yeah so one one thing you need to know about is that although we we clearly associate with P remember that there are prohibitions of that are Way Way Beyond PES theik for the of the bikash was largely a free zone the Corb that was brought was not allowed to be except on as one exception um even the you know you think about them as breads they they were in fact not although they were soft they were soft like mat so is really very very bad even in the whole the whole year and once again the basic idea maybe I'll have to save it for for next week if I think we have one more share uh is that represents arrogance represents GAA it represents also inera because when water hits flower you don't have to do anything to make it uh uh it it happens by itself you don't need yeast you don't need a starter so mat you got to do something Kum to arrest the fermentation by heat so represents the I'll just end with one beautiful little thought you know for many many years I'm not sure if it's still the case the largest Seder in the world was in KATU in Nepal and it was a kabad Seder and uh they had 2,000 people mainly Israelis because after people finish the IDF they love to go to Asia whatever it is yeah whatever Israel is too small for them they want to see the world so uh it's a big huge seder and obviously the logistics of 2,000 person seder outside is a little difficult but they have a little bit of an avangard ceremony ER of P which is very beautiful I think uh when they burn Theus they have big bonfires burning M everybody is supposed to write on a piece of paper some bad Mida that they wish they could destroy or go beyond I have an anger problem I'm selfish I'm egotism and they throw it into the fire to be burnt with theit now you hear that and you think ah aveng guard hippie you know but the truth of the matter is if you look at the ancient teos that were recited when we burnt the alala the M was just as I was Z to burn the external physical may I burn the of my heart that keeps me distant from God so has a very deep symbolic value uh of GAA and arrogance in fact I just end with one one quick other story they say a rebbi was doing with his and they spent hours and hours and hours and hours and the tan were very proud of themselves we really did a great job but the rebi seemed a little agitated the rebi pointed to his chest his and he said and what about the in here what did I do in here so the tum gave him a brilliant answer the first mission says a place that you don't bring in you don't have to check says rebi in here a cir did you have a question yeah what if you can't eat that oh yeah all right so again I do have to stop but let me just point out that the shim that are really valid are much much much smaller than the sh that are commonly advertised I mean the sh that are commonly advertised in the Yeshiva World you know twoth third of a mat whole matah uh really a a kazas is the volume of an olive so the truth is if you eat one sixth of a typical mat one six you and I'm being generous that's already larger but but let's say if you go with 16 you for sure will be okay now that means you have to do it at least three times though so you'll eat the to of a half of matah one six for mo matah one six for K and one six for the a so Al together it's a half half of a mat so that hopefully should not be too difficult okay be well and I think next week we're still on but uh but I will give you an excuse if you feel you can't make it