Tisha B'Av: Saying Kaddish and Naming After the Kedoshim of the Holocaust

this Tower class is brought to you by torahanytime.com okay welcome everyone a good Nerf shabbosai as we prepare for Chavez khazan for parashas davarum and for tishov the gamara tells us and continuing on our theme that we discussed Wednesday evening about the midst of Hashem that those who give up their lives Hashem a special is reserved for them in a way that nobody could approach the gemara says I heard that they said upstairs those who were murdered by the government no one could stand in their vicinity in other words the light the aura the sanctity that they achieve in is unapproachable wants to know who are we talking about um who are you talking about if it refers to rabikiva and his associates only because of how they were killed even had Rabbi Akiva died a natural death certainly it would be says Lord It's referring to other people who died but any event the gumar is telling us that those who are makadishim shamayim with the ultimate sacrifice they reach a level then to the extent is talking about um the property and the animals of an iranidachas and the gemara says that you cannot be mockery of the animals of the of people who were who perished I think about wants to know why not what about the fact that Haruki maukos that if they're killed by the government even if but nevertheless it might not be an authorized judgment and therefore anyone who perishes through the hands of the government has immediate capara it sounds like even if they're open in avidazara even if they worshiped Idols however Haruki best then but those who are murdered by bezden those who got real capital punishment Kevin De bedin come Italy since they're killed within Lai have a look they are not atoned in other words they remain in a state of Rashad them but in any event the gemara is saying that someone who is killed by the malchos and since it's a very interesting Shyla and again just want to preface um don't get sensitive about it this is governed by anybody's personal feelings or emotions everything is based on the halachik principles question is for those who perish during the Holocaust or any other tragedy in Jewish history are you allowed to say college for them say what do you mean are you allowed to say them yeah exactly are you allowed to say why not the answer is why do you why do you say college for a person because they need a tick on they need a tick on there's something deficient after all everybody Nobody's Perfect so we say Kansas we hope they have uh some type of there's nothing they could do for themselves so we try to help them out but based on what we just learned that Haruki someone is murdered by the government by the rashayam that nobody could approach them in and they have a kappara so then maybe you're not a state college because they don't need your candles they don't need it you can't just dance you can't say that Allah you can't say college for so the same way you can say for the living maybe you can't say for someone who perished in the showa what are you doing they don't need your cadish they've reached the ultimate level they have achieved the Pinnacle madrega that is possible or human being to achieve maybe you don't say college for them you don't need to and if you don't need to maybe you shouldn't that was that's the question say well you know that it's a little bit of a shocking question you would think you know what could be more beautiful what could be more of a memory than the answer you don't say Candice as a memorial Cottage not a plaque college is not a statue Candace is a take on so somebody who perished Hashem doesn't need a ticket maybe not a secret that was the question that is addressed by contemporary post-skim but it was addressed a very long time ago by the maharl the maharl was the backbone of of piske ashkenaz and then my real deals with this question in Simmons I didn't hear what you wrote In The Name Of rabenu supposedly the Shaya was questioned it was quoting robbeno that refers to marami Rosenberg who maybe said something from which it implies that you do not say kaddish for kadoshimaim I heard other people say it Ibrahim I didn't pay attention to it because it seems to me obvious that you should say it the time of DD and my reason is the reason is there's Avalos for Kardashian because the even a wicked person serves time in gehanam for 12 months because of Mari or zaru bin Maharaj the chocolates another question if somebody perishes for they've already accomplished whatever they need to there's nothing no reason to seravelos they need atonement Prague that the story happened in Prague that some wanted to say not to mourin for the Kardashians changed their mind that they should mourn now what happened in Prague what's Amarillo talking about so look at number four in the Cedar hadira is in the year hey Tess so now we're in the year hey tough Shin I in Zion 777 so this happened in the year 1 49 so that's uh 628 years ago okay this is what happened empty people gathered an Israel in 620 in the year 628 years ago and they murdered the Jewish people with uh with swords and hatchets they even removed Dead from the Graves is Prague if you go to Prague today his grave is intact Hamas khalas Isla there's a special composed for this bohem so after that episode said maybe we don't uh we're not miss Abel we mean Miss Abel we they reached the highest Madre that a person could reach ultimately they decided yes we do ceravelas so what's the what's the uh rationale over here why would you say kavish again bottom line why should you say kadish even though those who perished were Supreme High supremely Sanctified um the age there are certain sins that me so alone is not mahabara you need an unusual death that Sarah de kibra commercials uh meaning even though these people died nobody knows for sure whether the capara is a hundred percent and it could be that even though they're greatly Sanctified and their kadoshim they still might need some more kapara if you don't say this is a father who is well known as you know you won't say kadish why not for him the guy went through a Yom Kippur the person died he had kappara through his Nisa why should the sun say kadish were worried Shema but you don't know what's going on in anybody's heart maybe this big sadik was not Mercado the surrender Ava to a false extentious bottom line is nobody's perfect and even people who perish Hashem and even though we say nevertheless it's not a visayan to say kadish for them because nobody knows what kind of chicken people need but you never know maybe they need more never know and then he says an incredible thing that I was not aware of and we see who are the four people who never sinned you have what Ben Yemen the father of Yankovic the son of Jacob you have amram the son the father of Moshe and if you say the father of David and kill of the son of David so you shall we say died that he never sinned the only reason he died is because that's the fate of mankind and I didn't know this I thought you shy so he died on his bed like me says nashik I know you say I was murdered I said really doesn't say that anywhere doesn't say that in the gemara it doesn't say that you forgot the motherstone quotes and say for shmuel it must have just slipped your mind that even though the gemara tells us about number five they are all they are all a tradition except for yes in other words all these people are a tradition except for yishai yishai we could actually learn from the sukim that he died because of the snake the Sylvia Allah is the daughter of a snake is died despite the fact he didn't sin he was still murdered really I didn't know that well it's a good thing you came to the kailal here in Young Israel this morning deposit says in schmuel that is they guided the face of the king of mayav it means David took his family his father and his mother and some of his siblings and they lived with the king of mayav Callum as long as David was hiding in the Fortress says Rashi by the way you ever hear of Rashi says related and when David left there foreign [Applause] except for one for who um this is a well a little known matters that despite the fact that you shine never sinned he was murdered what was he murdered for the answer is even big sadhi Kim nobody knows what kind of chicken people need I guess that's what he's trying to prove yourself so everybody needs a tick on and it's not really possible to know and to say yeah they don't need kaddish yes they suffered Hashem yes yes they have a kappara kadish maybe they still need so that's what the my real said many hundreds of years ago but this question was raised again after the Holocaust and the Minh has a very interesting swara and that's the focus of today foreign does one keep a yard side of people who perish during the showa again maybe not we're keeping a yard side for to do what to say kadders for what thank you very much they don't need your caddish you sitting home bringing your Schnapps and sponge cake they did more than your little kaddish and shawl in the air conditioned show them in the crematoria they they're killer shame shamayim they don't need your accountants or do they so the milk says that if a person's father was a Sadiq schwasiakov says don't have to say Kadesh but nobody's a sad they come or but if they were outside the gum or maybe they wouldn't eat kaddish and since based on the government Sanhedrin Haruki malachos then Haruki Marcos have kapara even before the tsara the caves brings Aria from nakamar as well it comes out it comes out that um even somebody who never Paris in the Holocaust even if they were a Russia Gummer they get immediate capara and then only Kadesh but nevertheless says yeah it's interesting it used to be in the olden days that only one person said Kadesh and he was moitzy everybody else who had to so let's say you have two children one of them's parents passed away naturally and the other one's parents was Nelson Adler says the one who was killed the one whose parents was nerag has Kadima which is mashma the opposite of what we're saying that someone that someone who was nerag is what he needs more capara but that's against us but says a very interesting slara why um that if somebody was killed even though they have tremendous and even though in Adam but nevertheless it was obviously Raya masley they didn't have good Mazel if this is what happened and because of that sort of they need some kind of hashlama through the Kadesh again what's this far that he's saying that someone who Isley they had bad Mazel so even though we say in masal Israel says that that just means really says they could break it but there is a concept of mazel by the way because I'm sorry for an achievements brings Zaria from the shock of Italia the gemara in Sanhedrin where the gemara contrasts somebody who was killed in the iranidakas to somebody who died Ali day the malchus he says uh the story happened like this like this is a holy man that was killed through the goyam and he was buried then the next day his name is and and they asked me whether they should bury him because of or should he be buried alone because there's a concept that the din arba miso is then you do not bury him in the ancestral grave maybe someone who died and was killed by the gun we also don't bury them there like some service says no just the opposite that if you look in the shackle of itaria in the morning Sanhedrin the gemara says we're not macri of the animals of the anchi iranidakas because why not if they were killed they have capara so the gamara says no mace where they were killed improperly they have immediate capara even if they died as rasham they don't have kappar until and then you gather the bones and you bring them to kiraya voice you learn from this two things number one that the I have a mascara means that if somebody gained kapara before the decomposition they would bury them immediately because then does not have a media capara and number two you see from here that someone who is this individual who was um who was killed we we say that he has immediate kapara and you could bury him because but decomposition needs the Sarah de kibra so does not need Sarah the kibra let's talk about this said that someone who perished in the shower had Raya masley and because of that Samara he says to say Kadesh because they had Raya masley they found the chuva it's actually it's quoted in many swarham from um Isaac's father so he wrote chuvas when he was a rub in Toronto so he has a famous chuva about a different topic that's relevant to this as well so he was asked about this question should you say kaddish for the kadoshim and he addresses he brings the um and uh that they Obama he rejects the Sorrows well how's that take a look at the end of number 10. he says Hashem foreign it's interesting there's a rama drama paskins that are mumar who is killed by you don't you're not masabel so uh the question is why not since the gemara says that someone who's killed byum has a media capara so even if they would have died naturally wouldn't said Shiva but now that they were murdered on someone who's a mummer who was killed um however the steam Master post gonna Smash Mouth you would but nevertheless this true varieties here are the the Jews who perished in the showah were not just murdered they were murdered the reason they were murders they murdered because they were Jews even the Rama would agree that your masaba them Kane maybe you don't say kadish no you would not consider those who perished in the shower to be reyama's like why not why because the gemara is talking about or a few people so you could say one person or a group of people you could say Ray Amazon they had bad bad muzzle that day if if it was enough I'll go wrong here we had six million Jews died you can't say six million Jews were unlucky one person could be unlucky few people could be unlucky many people but not Claude Israel LMI there was like zero that we don't understand but you wouldn't call that Ray Amazon and therefore it it's not as Farah to say kaddish for them because they are real it wasn't Ray Amazon and therefore it almost says maybe you shouldn't says but it is something which is a little bit difficult to understand why you would I'm just sure you're going to say in the same principle but I'm not saying comparable for one or two or three they had their capara so why why are you saying kind of for what what do they need they need your contest so what are you saying the purpose of Kadesh is so you don't need it certainly yeah so why do I bring this in that's what they say but the mice of the postcams say the reason for kadish is a capora not a not a nawia that's not the reason you know that's a colloquial expression but is that really the reason they say college that's not what the place is going to say the reason for kadish is that the nashama needs a ticket or a capara so you say the kadish is to to elevate them here's a Shyla could a person name is a good idea to name a child after a relative who perished during the showa so what's what's the Shiloh so normally we don't name after somebody who was murdered or killed Young why because we say they didn't have good muzzles so you don't want the kit so this this is relevant to this question in other words could a person should a person is a good idea to name a child after someone who Parish in the showa do we say if they perished it was Reya masley or like really obam said that the ray of masley does not apply to it applies to one person many people doesn't apply on a large scale so if you look at number 11 the Indian and litany um the reason you don't name after children or young people if they died in their youth who Aid various it's a proof that they had a bad Mazel Shabbos because we know when we call a name it has an effect on a person foreign it's better that their name should have a Everlasting Memorial I concluded it's not required but it's a good idea Liquors and there are a number of reasons so in other words he does not find any halachic problem with naming after Zona Paris I Reya masley you don't say Rey Amaze like he said the same reason it's not a swara not to to say kaddish for them because it's also not as Farah not to name after them but he says it's a good idea to add a name by the way he brings over here says that when you write the name yashaya you should write it yesiah but now you say Yahoo why because Isha Yahoo was killed young and he was killed by his own son even though we find in um in in the Supreme Milwaukee he says they probably wouldn't have named them after him so since the name is only by the navi so we don't use that name I it's used in tanach it's not after the same person okay so that's the idea that's the concept that those who perish in the shower we do not say Rey amazli and again he enunciates this in a necess Isaac eisenstein he was Ezra's Rob in kibishad foreign should you name a children after those who perished he says even a child even a child who is murdered ancient equally covers myself there's no problem to use their name and um to add another name so that person is not afraid and ain't Levi noifi and another reason not to use the name specifically and only is that the mention a name could cause tsar and that's not always a good idea I found in the safer that the author says that he visited and I asked him La Mesa should one say Kadesh for on the yard side of his parents that were shashem and he responded Yes you should say kadish and that is the conclusion of Rama and it's always a benefit for the niftstar and for their children actually if you look at number 14 the dark emotion quotes my grandpa when he was in Auschwitz remembers that the first thing they did was They carried out the old people and they took them to crematoria and they were crying who's gonna say kaddish for us who's going to say Kai's for us and he was macabulon himself to say kadish for the kadoshim which he's been doing every single day for the last 72 years so uh yeah okay okay so the truth is that was the second part of the children if you look in the back end number so Rebecca wants to know what if you don't know what the yard site is um and in number eight it's the second part of the middle class six o'clock as well as the second part of the true I didn't put either on the page because that wasn't what we're talking about so it's another Indian that I don't have the answer to Okay so by some yeah okay so he also mentions that he asked her because um that some people are afraid to give a name after someone who was killed at Hashem and they add a name so Rebecca's opinion is that not only could you name after Sonu pressed in the Holocaust even if they died young it is not even necessary to add a name so how many posts can say that that type of situation was not Reya masley but it was xera nistare Hashem and uh again Chavez you've just experienced 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