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Using Modern Technology on Shabbat - Rabbi Reuven Lauffer
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cuz it illogical grammar grammar is that
you're not doing something directly
right so you do an action and then a
little while later it causes another
action it causes something to happen
right that's considered to be an
indirect action rather than a direct
action which is less problematic now
that does not mean you know i'll give it
i give you a basic example in the
hospitals over here in Jerusalem they're
pretty that they're pretty from and
they've organized all kinds of systems
that Chavez Chavez modes or offense that
they're fantastically see they really
are but it's not just that they've got
they've got shabbos phones yeah which is
which is it's it's a it's a grammar
which means that you you punch in the
number that you want but it doesn't go
through immediately unless obviously
there isn't an emergency of some kind
for sure use a different phone with the
shovers phone is a gramophone and you
were you punching that you punch in the
number and there's a delay grandma
grandma means a delay like which bizarre
again in our locker there's a difference
between making a phone call or with a
regular phone which is absolutely
forbidden or making a phone call with a
gramophone which is causing a delay you
put in the number and then it doesn't go
straight away doesn't even use
electricity it depends some of them do
some of them don't again if you're
talking about in hospital settings
whether you know things are a lot less
complicated because obviously you know
we're working with working on peacock
nefesh of the danger to people's lives
right but you know for example in
Charlotte setting they've got a whole
system it's fantastically were a whole
system of cooling you know when you when
a person's in hospital and they call the
nurse so during the week you press a
buzzer no it sets off a buzzer in the in
the nurse's station and if you're lucky
about three days later the nurse will
come to see right I mean even if they do
at that point you'll be so happy to see
them that it sir yeah of course it would
be like three o'clock in the morning
when you're asleep but whatever yeah in
shades ethic and indica coil in I'm not
sure they have a man care of as well but
they've got a shallot the shutters that
hope the whole cost
to switch lower the showers mode on
arrow shoppers okay and what you call
the nurse it's working with that with
the vacuums & and what's it called
pneumatic pneumatic that's right i
forgot what i thought was a little boy's
dream that's right pressure so you press
the thing you're not setting off the
buzzer anywhere you're opening up and
which is moving across hitting another
thing which is opening that up and
moving and cross until it gets to the
nurse's station and it it flags it
doesn't make a sound look like a little
a little backward flagyl sort of pop up
but I know ring a bell huh I think I
think I know why I was so then the
original ones they hadn't had my calf
lanxess yet it had also had some doors
you swirl bit so I open close you the
showers fun Oh closes doors hey good
right because you know again if
everything especially in hospital other
things are coming more and more
technologically advanced right Lester
touch so doorways they just open as you
go through them right if you've got the
right you've got a card like you know a
card which it recognizes you and you go
through all these things are problems on
Chavez well howdy how do you work with
them you know what do you do we just
hangs out work of it even if you're
happy she's feeling like fish yes me
there is but what's happening is like
the short you're putting in you know you
know what it's a little bit like it's
over like sending a fax but you don't
care when the facts goes if you've seen
the bathroom shower Jimmy knows I'm
saying you know fact fax machines right
how do they work very often if you you
know time very in businesses in the
olden days they didn't want it they
didn't want to tie up a line a telephone
line with the facts so the facts would
read all the faxes and then at night
they would put it into fax mode and it
would send these things off right so you
would send your fax at eleven o'clock in
the morning but it wouldn't actually go
until two o'clock in the morning right
the next morning because it's waiting
right so in a certain kind of way it's
the same kind of a thing it make it
makes it makes the shovers issue less
problematic which means I would reduces
you're still breaking well if you if you
need to use this thing then it's not
breaking it right which means you're
you've got you
you've got a way of being able to do it
and you can do it in a better way than
doing it directly because it's it's
removing some of the transgression on
the way right but so which means like
this in a hospital it be OK in the
security services it's ok to use these
things on Chavez for sure right for us
we can't use them Thank we don't we
don't have we don't have the beat it's
not going to help the fact that his
grammar doesn't make it permissible
right the fact that it's delayed doesn't
make it permissible the fans going to
delayed turns it from being a Torah
prohibition it's a rabbinical
prohibition and together with other you
know with it with it with a situation
right where I have a security situation
on medical situation is enough to allow
you to be able to do it right they've
got they've got for example in shade
Senate they've got grammar pens don't
get what you mean to how does it work
but it writes things down but it the
writing only last 24 hours and then it
disappears now the real prohibition of
writing on Chavez at our provisional
writing on Chavez is permanent babe it's
not going to be permanent so it's got
enough lengthens got enough time in it
it lasts long enough that I'm not say
shabbos you can write all this stuff up
so I'm studyin show right now so again
what's the chat you you and I we can't
use this in it I believe you're in a
situation where it's got to be done then
for sure it's okay to use these cigs and
they're working on these things a whole
time there are institutions there's one
called the it's one called samet mark on
samet and there's one called the
technological institute for her locker
and science where this is what they do
they come up with these things had it
you know how to add a get around the
problems in order to allow hospitals to
function properly in order to allow the
security services to function properly
on shabbat right it's really it's
fantastic all this stuff is and it's
fascinating it really is because they're
on the vanguard of modern technology and
they're trying to you know they're
trying to apply all of this to halacha
and sometimes it's doable sometimes it's
not right you know it's it's not it's
not always going to work
with the advent située with the advent
of computers and very very sophisticated
computers a lot of this stuff is now a
lot easier so a lot of things could be
pre-programmed into a computer so for
example alarm systems which up until
whatever i don't know maybe 10 years ago
it had to be manned manually right you
had to arm them manually now you can
have your computer do it yeah and that
means that if somebody wants to make
sure that his house is alarmed on
Shabbat oh right you could just program
it into the computer computer all take
care of that hurt you use one of those
pens that that writing disappears or
would it be better to actually use like
a translation program and just talking
to a computer and have it right for you
Oh interesting uh neither what what what
it right for medically oh I think for
medical reasons it would probably be
better than use a pen simply because
these things are notoriously quirky the
I've got a brother as a doctor yeah and
he spent weeks weeks programming his
software to understand his voice and
it's still it's still he says it's not
it's not accurate oh really in the last
three or four years okay because you
know he said he said it was it was he
said especially when you're in a hurry
you know there's an emerg an emergency
that's that's you know brewing and
you're not speaking clearly without
imagine the reason i thought i was
returning to go to but day um the reason
is that assumed that if it was a 24 hour
of reg encourages all they want to put
everything on a computer so they're
probably gonna have somebody writing it
taking it after shops anyway yeah so why
not just have them talk into it and they
can correct it out I don't know I was
just really getting to ask whether or
not the separation of actually writing
or talking yeah so what's a chat writing
writing on a computer it's not the same
as writing with a pen politically it's
not the same as writing to the pan
that's it step by step right writing
with a pen is a problem right that's for
sure right yeah
writing with a computer is less it's
still a problem but it's less of a
problem because you're not really
writing what are you doing you're
putting in pixels that are turning
themselves into letters I do what you
like hold on till May took right now
talking about you know that the using a
keyboard right when you press the when
you press a que right it's you're not
writing ok right it's just putting
you're just making some symbols up there
on the screen I mean this is binary so
it's whatever I mean the way the way
that it all was and it's refreshing
itself the whole time as well it's not
it's not to it there's no there's no
sense of permanency whatsoever that
they're lacking ramification of all of
that just just as an aside is it there
is no problem whatsoever with erasing
God's name from a computer screen
because it's not it's not writing to
begin with and if you were to write
God's name on a piece of paper so that's
a problem you can't just throw it away
that's arse walk right out hashem
completely and yeah it doesn't use soap
know your ass just really wait I
champagne completely you just put like a
letter align for that you should be but
arched wall breaks it all out and was
wondering why they do that how make
sense oh wait Oh printed we are in our
print it now it's interesting should now
that halacha CLE printed printed
material is not the same as written
material nature which means that
disposing of printed material is easier
than disposing of written or two so it's
a for example you've got oh so let's say
for example you've got ya I don't know
magazine that's got God's name in it for
example so the best thing to do just to
give it to give it a little bit of
respect is put it into a bag and then
you can put it into the garbage right if
you want to be again if you were if you
want to be very careful you could go to
the magazine and you could tear out the
bits that have got God's name in it and
then you could put those into something
called the Ganesa which is something
which is set aside for you know holy
holy things to be disposed of properly
but you don't have to you can just put
them into a bag and put the bag into the
regular way that you would dispose of
your garbage yeah yeah if you've got
written material it's not so simple rip
material really needs to go into the
Ganesa which is going to be disposed of
properly
and and it's not you know it's not the
same so here you've got you've got stuff
that you're writing into the into the
computer is not really writing there are
other a logic problems on each other's
if you're speaking and that's causing it
to right I'll tell you the truth I'm
thinking I'm just thinking out loud
right now but I'm not sure that I see a
big difference between that and using a
keyboard actually yeah because you're
it's your your your voice is causing
this thing to do what it's doing just
like your fingers are causing it well
there's a physical aspect and then yeah
but you see how luckily over here
halacha clean what what the concern over
here is what is whatsapp what's
happening right that's the halacha
concern over you what's happening over
here so my speech is creating writing
and my fingers are creating writing by
using the keyboard and i'm not i'm not
sure it could be that it's slightly less
I wanted publi message boys well having
a having a non-jew do things and shadows
for sure is for medical easy for sure is
is there at there are certain places
here Taryn for example as far as I'm
aware the first aid you know next to a
center one next to that next to the bus
station as far as I'm aware i think on
shabbos they have non jewish doctors
working over there but you don't have to
that it's a mitzvah it's a mitzvah to
heal people yeah but in its a midst of
for a doctor on Chavez to heal somebody
even if it means that he's got to
transgress if there's any kind of a
danger to that person's life and that's
a very that's a very loose description
in a danger to somebody's life it's very
loose because you know it doesn't it
doesn't mean but also first saw
something come you go do your test
because you don't know right Suffolk
Pequot never a doubt of peacock
initiative of danger to life is enough
to allow you to to translate somebody
comes in they don't feel well right so
it could be that it's nothing right and
it could be that you know how he does
something terrible is going on inside
and lab work needs to be done right so
maybe they did blood
work maybe they need to take an x-ray
it's permissible to do all of these
things on shovers if there's any any
kind of a concern right I don't know
somebody walks in that they've got a
nosebleed so okay you're probably you're
probably somewhat limited with what you
can do on shabbos in order to treat a
nosebleed right that's really not pay no
not not somebody's gotta an ingrown
toenail that's bothering and so come
back come back after Chavez will take
care of it right but if you've got
anything anything that yeah I don't
think that can't be seen and you don't
feel well so it needs to be treated so
I'm not I'm not a hundred percent sure
needs to be looked at carefully but it
could be that speaking into the computer
might be slightly better than using the
keyboard because the keyboard is direct
and speaking to the computer is not it
might be once one step removed yeah
which is interesting some people some
people get subs Alden the notes are not
really listening people it's it's an
interesting line i'm not sure you know
it's a much cheaper sonality thing i
think some people need to take notes of
to concentrate some people who they take
notes they'll concentrate on the notes
and they're missing half of what it is
that's being told of them rabbi Gottlieb
told me once years ago when he was
teaching analytical philosophy in johns
hopkins that he got fed up with his
students because he said they were
writing everything down they weren't
listening to him they were just writing
so he said that he gave a class once he
said it was complete nonsense which I'm
not a hundred percent sure and
philosophy how you you know well what
turned it from being a regular class
into complete non see i don't i don't
know but whenever he said he gay he gave
this class and he's everybody's just
writing it down I nobody nobody's
stopping say hold on a second that does
make any sense it's just writing it down
so at the end of the class he said look
he says he said I don't understand you
people he said it didn't make any sense
what I just told you and he said he was
half expecting how for them to be
writing you know this doesn't make any
sense but I just I just write it down
right
so I don't I don't know you know writing
down definitely hazards for some people
is good of a son p but it's not so good
you