Why Would Beer Need a Hechsher? - 10 Minute Halacha - Rav Aryeh Lebowitz

Okay, there was an announcement made not that long ago that rocked the Kashos industry and that is that uh starting I think on January 1st, all U events and many other Kash agencies uh signed on as well no longer allow beer without kosher certification. That beer which used to be in a a beverage that did not require certification all of the sudden now requires certification. And people were very very uh taken by this. They were very taken aback by this that what changed exactly in beer that all of a sudden beer could be not kosher. So I I will tell you I know nothing about beer other than that I do not like to drink it. But um a couple of years ago a friend of mine number of years ago a friend of mine an old Talmid from when I taught in DRS reached out to me and he said he as in my role as a member of the Vakashas of the five towns and he said you should know that there are beers in some of these five town stores that definitely are Kashro's problems. And I said, 'What are you talking about? Beer cannot be a Kasho's problem. He said, 'Th that's what you think. He said that maybe if you're getting a Budweiser or a Kors, but you're in the five towns, no one gets a but they go for these micro breweries that make these uh you know spitzy beers and you have no idea what's going on in those places. And there is a real kash issue. So he uh he ended this Rabbi Kim Nim who's a rebi in DRS and he ended up writing up a whole article on it in the journal of contemporary societies. So, I'll just give you some of the highlights of that article. But again, I know nothing about beer, but I'll tell you ex a little bit of what he wrote and why it is in fact a problem for uh in many instances when you have beer without a kosher certification. Meaning at its at its root, it should not be a problem. What are the the ingredients of beer? It is grain, it is water, it is hops, and it is yeast. None of those with the possible exception of yeast, none of those pose a cautious concern. Yeast might pose a cautious concern because yeast is a fungi that's that's that could be propagated and generated by non-cooser ingredients. But we rely on or we always relied on the uh the possibil the the the following three stadium. Number one that it's most likely comes from kosher ingredients. Number two that it's probably in whatever final product you have. And number three, the breweries typically will use brewer's yeast, which is almost always kosher. So therefore, we weren't so terribly concerned about that and therefore none of these uh ingredients posed a real kash concern. So it would seem that beer should be absolutely absolutely fine. Um however, however, uh as you look into it and you see that uh the way that beer is made nowadays or the way that that a lot of the smaller breweries are making beer, you run into a number of problems. So, we're going to identify four potential problems. Potential problem number one is added flavors. A lot of the uh the small uh uh breweries um and even some of the larger ones will put out certain flavors, we'll put out certain beers with uh with some amount of flavor in it. And even though the amount of flavoring is somewhat small but it's what we call ina says that of the things that are not just like a and just like right there are certain things that are not that are not so that which is put in to give is also not going to be. So therefore that could affect the uh the kashrus of the beer. Now, it it should be noted that not every time you see a the name of something that sounds like another ingredient is it really another ingredient. Meaning, sometimes you'll be uh you'll be drinking wine, kittish wine, and uh you know, there's a lull in the conversation. So, you read the back of the bottle of the wine and the back of the bottle says that what you are tasting is uh you know, it tells you what you're tasting. you're tasting oak and cherries and uh a hint of pomegranate and what and you think to yourself, they put oak and cherries and pomegranates into this wine. No, they put no such anything into the wine, but a sophisticated pallet might detect a little bit of flavor that's similar to these uh these various uh various items. So a lot of times the label of uh you know the notes of almonds and uh what there's no almonds in your uh in your wine but nevertheless so uh the with beers it's the same thing. So sometimes it will say you'll detect a hint of citrus or whatever but it doesn't really mean that but other times there's actual flavor into it. And in addition to that, the uh the integrity of the label is not uh is not so regulated. Meaning there's a lot of freedom uh in the for the breweries to write pretty much whatever they want to write on the uh the on the label. For example, Rab Nim points out that there's a label of a popular beer that says aged on cherries. So you picture that someone went to the supermarket, bought a pound of cherries, and then just aged the beer on the cherries, had it sitting on the cherry. What could be wrong with that? But that's of course not what they do. What they do is they make a cherry puree. How they make the cherry puree, it will probably involve some level of heat. It probably involves, it certainly involves deep hitting the cherries and crushing up the cherries. What equipment did they do that on? All of these things become a question. So added flavors is problem number one. Once you have breweries that are dealing with things that are not kosher, you now have to worry about equipment. even when you're dealing with a beer that is kosher because if it's produced on uh on non- kosher equipment then that obviously can uh can be a problem as well. So, uh, Karun Kashus of any beers that are that are on that, uh, that run. And you have to figure out if the uh if the beer was made on the main equipment or was run on separate equipment. Meaning in uh in Annheiser Bush they uh they have equipment that's probably for the main beers that they make or for Kors or for of course but whatever it is for all the uh the uh the main big breweries. There's no way they're using the same equipment that they make their main beers on to make these these smaller they have separate equipment for that because they just produce so much of the of the major, you know, of the typical beer. But for smaller breweries, for craft breweries, which are all over the place, I I think uh if you're a tourist in New York and you want to take a tour of Brooklyn, there's there's not a tour of Brooklyn that exists without visiting a craft brewery. It's like one of the things you need to see uh you know, when uh when you come, they're all over the place. So for these smaller breweries that sell much much less. So it could be that they're using the same equipment. A third uh issue is that sometimes in addition to flavorings into mainstream beers, sometimes a beer company will like to uh do something that is very eye-catching. They'll uh they'll run a flavor that uh that you know seasonally sometimes that will be uh that will uh that will be it will grab attention. So, uh, so they'll have oyster stout, uh, or they'll have shellfish or scallops or other things or bacon and sausage beer or, you know, and they call these breakfast style beers. Um, because if you're the kind of guy that gets drunk at breakfast, you might enjoy these beers. Um, so the uh so they they have that is a uh that is a another issue that uh that can come up. Also, several beers have lactose, which is a milk sugar that's added to the brew um or to the fermentation, and the milk sugar doesn't ferment out. It gives the beer a sweeter taste uh when it has lactose. So, historically, lactose was added to some stouts, but now they they're using it a lot a lot more according to Rab Nim. And most cautious organizations do require a hashkaha on on lactose. it's uh lactose is a byproduct of whey and could have cautious concerns meaning the cheese that's used to make the whey um could be cultured with animal renet you have issues that can come up with uh with lactose so given that it's that it's there for the purpose of sweetness it's a milid de la and therefore it's not going to become butel in the uh in the beer and if you were to verify that kosher lactose was used then you have an issue of well is it dairy andh if it's dairy how does that go with the meatboard at the shams that uh that that that you're having now. I'm from the five towns. You you you don't have a sham without a meatboard. So uh so there's no such thing as a part of a shom. So how you going to have a beer that has some dairy ingredients? Now lactose is may which is not really but but we are not to have it together with meat and therefore that could pose a uh a cautious a cautious concern. um when you're having it together with uh with meat. Um the a final concern when it comes to beer is beer wine hybrids or beer that is aged in wine barrels. Grapes are a very popular ingredient that's added to produce beer or a beer wine hybrid. Um they refer to it as brewed or fermented with grapes and uh they add wine grapes to the raw grain and they have them ferment together or sometimes the wine or the grape juice is added directly to the beer and that could be a problem. Obviously, whenever you're dealing with wine, it could be a problem of so that's something you want to be careful of as well. The ass in the ass any beverage that's made by non-Jews that usually has wine mixed in and the says that you shouldn't buy beer or any other beverage from a non-Jew if there might be some wine drags in it. So, that has increasingly become a concern. The Rama writes it does become bashishim. So if there's shishim then it's okay unless it's avid dea which in which case it might be avid dea. There's a famous back and forth about scotch and whisies that have wine you know that are that that are blended um or that are that are aged in sherry casks and things like that. A famous exch ex exchange between Raosha Feinstein and Rabbi Tites Zakron Lra. Rabbi Tites was Makmir on this issue and much to his dismay Rav Mosha would not be Makmir on the issue. Rabosa kept saying, "Yeah, yeah, okay. So, bal should be makmir, but it's really mut." And Rabbi Tit shot back, "No, but it should be." Yeah, yeah, nef, but it should be should be. A lot of fascinating back and forth, which I just very very much oversimplified. Um, there is a inim that says that Rava allowed to pour beer into a cle that had previously hadum in it. So it would seem from that it's that you're allowed to put water or beer into or any any beverage into a clea that had previously had non-cooser wine. But the question is why? Why is that m so the taz on the spot ink the taz writes that the minimal flavor of the wine that gets absorbed into the barrel walls will that may come out into the beer will will not make the beer taste better. It will be no Staint Tom. it will make the beer worse and is so says the but if a ro if a rose if we're able to see very uh very clearly the writes in that the wine imparts a positive flavor that it's nov then the you don't have the of the of the then you're going to have a problem if they're aging these beers in these uh these wine barrels for dafka because they think it imparts a positive flavor then you have a problem the sha has a different explanation The shak writes that the reason we're not concerned about is because whatever flavor there is is going to be but that would uh assuming that that's true that would be true regardless of whether it's or a final concern I know I said there will be four but the fifth and final concern is that if you have these small breweries and some of them are owned by Jews so then you're going to have a problem often times or even a a beer distributor uh so you'll often times have of have an issue of pes so you want to make sure that a cashless organization will be on the lookout for that. So if you buy a regular uh you know uh Budweiser beer, chances are you are not having uh anything that is not kosher, right? But if you're going to start getting into the micro breweries and the uh the uh the the uh the um whatever they call it the the smaller breweries in different places or or you get into the uh fancier flavors and the the more interesting uh interesting types of beers that are out there. So you can have a problem and it therefore it seems as public policy. It makes a lot of sense that if there could be a problem that uh that organizations that uh don't know any difference just see plain beer and they assume that everything's okay because they're unaware of the problems. So it's better that we have uh that we have oversight of these things. And that's probably why the OU and others have changed their policy. I saw a meme someone sent that it had a picture of of meat of lab grown meat and it said what they promised us this is kosher and par what we got beer is trafe right meaning okay so sometimes we think we're making advancements and everything's going to be kosher you know new okay that's that's how life goes okay have a great day everybody >> yeah at at U catered events they're going to require >> Yeah yeah yeah with the light.