Yavneh: 1960-1981, Religious College campus movement, and Chabad on Campus - AJA, 7-24-24

everyone I'm so pleased to see you all here with us today [Music] for I'll I'll ask people online to please mute themselves it's really important that everyone online mute themselves so we don't get feedback thank you there should be it should be pretty easy to mute yourself so that we don't get any your background noise wonderful uh welcome everyone to our fellowship seminar today my name is Dana Herman I am associate director of the American archives and director of our wonderful fellowship program that's been running since the late 1970s in fact our first American Jewish archives fellow Dr Sara is here with us today so um just for those who don't know our fellowship program is is is a wonderful uh program that brings researchers from around the world to study here in Cincinnati at the American Jewish archives for up to four weeks at a time and um this year alone I think we have almost 25 uh Scholars coming from countries as far as China and Israel and the UK and Germany Canada and here in the US so um it's it's really just been a fabulous opportunity for me um to meet these these wonderful people and to hear about the interesting research that's done and I think Dr Sara you can correct me but I think this is the first time we've had a Kabab Rabbi as our fellow as a researcher at least so this is a a milestone a milestone maybe we should say a shanu okay um so we're very very pleased to have Rabbi Kim dolphin uh with us today uh those perhaps in the audience uh have known Rabbi dolphin for a number of years I know that I corresponded with him for well over between five and 10 years at least I would think about research that he's been doing on on kabad and the history of kabad and other areas of of of umid and today he will be speaking to us about uh yav of the 1960s and 70s and uh kabad on campus and a comparative study of those two organizations but first by way of brief introduction um Rabbi dolphin received his rabinal ordination from the central Yesa Tom la in Brooklyn New York in 1983 he is AIC historian ethnographer and author of over 90 books uh his most recent one I believe is this your most recent nope C even okay what's that onead Young Israel and modern Orthodoxy very nice this one I have here is on uh the real zman on uh reev zman Shak shalomi and um we are pleased to have you with us today Rabbi dolphin and we look forward to hearing your presentation it'll be about uh 30 minutes or so and then there'll be time for questions and comments afterwards just in terms of the format of the seminar so Rabbi the floor is yours says I am not wise I am not the son of a wise man although I believe my father is wise and I share some wisdom I am not an academic nor do I want to be an academic I want to present to you findings of compare and comparison on this topic but before that I do want to thank Dr Dana Herman for making this all happen not just for myself all of us I must tell you that the feeling here is so so rich so beautiful so therapeutic and so cathartic it really is I'm a ganaden paradise I I mean I mean it you know coming from Brooklyn or Jerusalem for that matter there's a lot of noise here I was downtown it's quiet I'm here it's quiet there's parking there really it's really I found a new a new a new Oasis called Cincinnati amen so uh Dana really thank you for giving me this opportunity I also want to thank Mr George Roar who uh is a friend and someone who has helped many Jewish institutions worldwide and is someone who responsible for kabad on campus which we're going to talk about a little later I also want to thank Dr Jonathan sarna who endorsed one of my books and he pushed me and encouraged me to apply for the fellowship he wrote a wonderful letter which of course you don't get to see I don't get to see but I'm sure it was important and beautiful and Dr Don C of Ember University another very good friend of mine associate professor of Jewish studies there there's other people to thank but we'll leave it at that so the particular movement that we're looking at which I wrote about a little bit in this book but this study will take it to another level with God's help to publish a full book on yava H and kabar on campus that's my goal so it's a it's a it's a it's a study in the works to make it a full complete work Rabbi someone's asking if the camera can be moved a little bit they'd like to be able to see your face better on online that's possible um is this any better yes yes can see you better yes okay yava the National Jewish religious Students Association that started in 1960 I used the late professor Dr Benny Kraut book who lived here in Cincinnati he was a university Professor here the book called The Greening of American Orthodox Judaism which Dr sarna pointed me to and he studies the yava movement in this book it's a fantastic book it's not just a book it's a study an in-depth study so let me begin with a few points from Dr crowd's book he says here that yava in America reflected the conscious sense of Jewish reconstruction hope and rebirth via heightened Jewish religious study and the intensification of judaic living dot dot dot after the traumatic catastrophe of World War II to me he sums up what yava did there were students who were orthodox although the first President Joe LaVine of this organization did not call it the National Jewish Orthodox Students Association he stayed away from what he called the Big O Orthodox he replaced it with the word religious but the the purpose and content was to provide a sense of comfort for an orthodox student on campuses around the United States Canada Israel in two ways one through an intellectual Outlet not a mediocre lowlevel study but deep intellectual Concepts talmud Jewish philosophy deepens sites these were very bright young men and women at the best universities and everyone considers their University the best so whatever those universities are from Colombia to Oxford to Yale to Harvard da da da da da okay to Baran the hew University I'm not from I know you're not from there but that's why I said it anyway way and and uh there was there was a place for the Orthodox student to find Comfort the second thing that yavner provided was simply kosher food and at times kosher kitchens another board member that started yava was Rifka tits who lat later became Rifka Blau whose father was the known the chief Rabbi of Elizabeth New Jersey from 1933 or 34 Rabbi Pinas tits from laia a litak and uh rifken her sisters ATT attended Barnard and she told me that they paid tuition and the for food and the university would not provide kosher food kosher snacks so the the tide was in in the in the late in the 40s 50s someone who was Orthodox in their Jewish in their Jewish Behavior as far as Jewish law keeping kosher Shabbat Etc there was no real place for them and this wasn't acceptable anymore so a a group of young people soldiers on the campuses said as enough is enough and they started this organization and they got support from the Orthodox Jewish establishment to a certain point I'm going to get to that in a moment as doc as Benny Kraut writes about in his book and they started groups all over I see Marty uh R Holz on the for former judge is here with us from Jerusalem he was one of its pres presidents I think in 1968 please forgive me if I have the wrong gear and many others and um they did a fantastic job but what's the butt the butt is they didn't want anyone to control them typical they were offered to go under the offices of the Orthodox of of Union rabbis called OU and other Jewish organizations and although they got an office I think in the OU building in Manhattan on Broadway but they said thank you without being charged rent because they didn't have these were students they didn't have guilt guilt means money they didn't have guilt KF they didn't have money it was a volunteer organization so the OU helped them and others helped them with a copy machine with a phone with this that right but they they wanted them to go under them it was a cap and there it was a feather in their cap and it would be good for the for they felt for the for yava they said no up till here and no more we want to be independent and that's the way AA was for the 21 to 22 years that it was in existence because in 1981 82 yava seized stop the organization finished by by and large yava I found actually in the archives and again I'm so so thankful to Dana for opening them up to me I found a letter in the archives and that's why it's important to come to the archives there's a gold mine down there just for the record on all kinds of things we got to spend a lot of time sifting the papers I'm waiting for the search Eng one day to put in a certain name kabad 50 entries in these archives we don't have that yet with God's help one day we will but anyway um they they um they succeeded in in this sense but it ended in ' 82 and my question that I asked myself and sought to find the answer in Benny's book is why there are college students on campuses today all over more Orthodox college students than the 60s and 70s so why did yavis stop one question Benny addresses it I asked Rifka Blau tights her opinion okay she gave me her opinion I have it in writing I included it in my book and then I have my own opinion if I am allowed to have my opinion which I am and I'll share that with you so Rifka tells me that the closing of yava was due to the fact that most Orthodox students at a time they took a year or two either in middle or after they went to Yeshiva or a girls Seminary and school and the need for much of what yava was providing for students on campus was wasn't necessary anymore the the the need that they were missing in the 60s and 70s in the 80s with the with the popularization of men's yes Bali chot for rures to Judaism for men and women okay the whole culture changed that way and Benny does allude to it here towards the end in his conclusion where he says I find it very interesting the last chapter is called the passing of yavner you read some of it I'm not going to say it's depressing but you know it's not a not a happy ending you would think it's not a happy ending last paragraph in Benny's book in Dr kow's Book quote for all these reasons in my estimation yava is to be judged not only a success but one of the more remarkable and culturally Illuminating student organizations in American Jewish history so Benny does conclude like Rifka concludes that it was successful however earlier and I did discuss it with Rifka and to be honest I think we have a disagreement on it and that Benny speaks about the right-wing Orthodox rabbis and he also throws the laab into the P into that group of people as not supporting really yav now I found in the archives a letter of all the the Lithuanian rash rash means the heads of yiot Rabbi Rudman of Baltimore Rabbi Cutler rabish Cutler of Lakewood Rabbi gifter of Cleveland Rabbi mosha feinste the the the the leadist of the last generation who had a yes in the Lower East Side the Jacob Joseph he had a Yesa there they they were called upon to give lectures they were called upon to to to give advice but at the end of the day it was second tier to them what did they want they wanted an orthodox young man or young girl to go to Yeshiva to go to a a a girl Seminary they were not interested Ed as a as a priority they should stay in college and there's a lot to be said about that I wrote about that in my book on Lakewood and la babage which Dr Meyer who we have here today the great scholar joining us and I thank you for coming Dr Meer mayor and um so he mentioned Lakewood there's a lot to talk time is short but let's leave it at that that that the current in Orthodox Judaism from post post Holocaust on was anti College anti University the TR truth be said the reab rabish was also not for college he was for Yesa study however in a different way it's another time another discussion I don't want to but just putting it out there that these nuances are very very important cuz we you see what what what Benny does here and again maybe he was aware maybe he wasn't he puts the Reba which isic right I'm Aid Right Aid a full beard and all that Aid right kic Jew the Reba was aidic reab aidic leader the other rashash that I mentioned Rabbi gifter RAB rudan they were from Lithuania they were on the Lithuanian side Orthodox but Lithuanian they have a different approach to many of the same issues but Benny concludes that both they and the rebba didn't support yav now I in this I I disagree vly with Benny on the rebba not supporting y because the rebba called in Rifka tits Blau Rifka Blau tights I'm sorry Professor tits Blau uh called her in together with Joel LaVine in I think May of 1960 asked her and asked Joel tell me from from the ground up how you guys doing it and they did and it's on a video online you can hear her what she says in other words the rebba S sought yav tools yav success one second you'll get a chance during questions and answers later he wrote a letter and there was correspondence back and forth between Joe LaVine and 1961 okay Joe LaVine accuses the rebba of not supporting him the rebba says I supported you I sent the letter to your dinner what more do you want now what Joel failed to understand is that the rebish predecessor Joseph Rabbi Joseph Isaac nners who I asked Dr May about because I was told in the Julian please mute online Harvey Blitz can you mute go ahead yeah so um Joseph isacar the previous laab already already supported this idea so the conclusion that the uh laich put them in the same bag as as um as as as the Orthodox rabbis not supporting yava I don't find to be factually the case not at all in 1968 Marty with Richard mble Bal and one other member and there's a picture in Benny's book and I put it into my book as well at of faan during July all three were ushered in to speak to the rebba to speak to him 1968 the rebba was very much Pro yava and we could say that when he consulted with uh professor Blau and well well time she wasn't Professor Rifka Blau and Rifka tits and uh Joel LaVine he he learned from them he wanted their information he wanted to grow so that's one point where I disagree with Ben his conclusion and the other point is that because the orth the right-wing Orthodox did not fully support as Benny says loud and clear in his book here I believe that is a contributing factor if not the main factor to the closure of yav I don't think it was only because people went to Yeshiva and to girl seminaries and they didn't need any more yav no the Orthodox movement as with every movement in in in Judaism at the time was growing developing setting its its roots finding its way and establishing itself and the leadership of Orthodoxy through in the eyes of the heads of the Yoshi vot were not fully behind the group at the time that is my conclusion now let's look kabad on campus today is about 950 kabad on campus outfits worldwide not just in America but worldwide I don't know why and he's not here to ask but Professor Kraut does not give almost any attention to kabar on campus and that is a question that I would have loved to ask him why not and he's a modern Orthodox Professor so now I understand that the formal Orthodox group in the 60s and70s primarily were these students but Rabbi schlom munan started kabad on campus in 1965 at UCLA in Westwood Rabbi Aron Goldstein went out to an arbor in the early 70s Rabbi drizen went out in 1971 or 72 to UC Berkeley Rabbi Yona fratkin went out in the early 70s to UC San Diego Rabbi creger and Ritson ker here the local kabad emissaries for UC right here went out much later but it's a continuation of what started in the 60s so maybe we'll argue wasn't 1960 when yav started but' 65 66 70 you know so why he doesn't include it here I don't know in other words I know he's writing a book about yava not about kabar on campus I understand that but I I feel that if if if I had a if I was writing a a review on the book this would be one of my points of constructive criticism is he failed to include to include that now he might argue well I didn't include Hill either but let's you know this is not about me versus you it's to understand so what are some differences between kabar on campus not just today like the creers what the creers are dealing with but I summed it up here in the book yava emphasized intellect kabad looks for the soul sometimes you get the soul from what they do and that's called Friday night chicken soup there's a professor down a student I forget from from Oberland downstairs he told me human's wife the rabbi invites them good chicken soup you can ask them it goes a long way today you know for us who are a little older the 60s and 70s was a time when people were searching for God and meaning today you know what they're searching for a lot of money a Porsche and a nice girl it's a different time chicken soup Works today it's the hook I'm speaking tonight in their K to a group of students and young professionals I'm talking about reincarnation and soul soul is afterlife and past life regression therapy all the stuff that probably some of you don't believe in but ask the rabbi the Ritson they're coming back they enjoyed it you know imagine I'm going to talk to them about talud intellectual intricacies when when one scores another Ox do you pay 50% or 100% believe me they wouldn't come back I spoke last week and this is the second session they'll never come back get out you know so there's a difference kabad on campus the the the ethos is the soul in Hebrew the Nama you know so a hug a dance good food it br brings them in now naturally I want to make it clear they teach too then they teach deep stuff as well but the emphasis is looking for the soul that's the first difference number two yed primarily to the needs of Orthodox Jews Orthodox students kad's College Outreach is to all Jews and especially unaffiliated ones in my discussions with some of the leadership there's a there's a fire burning today in Judaism for all Jews from anti-Semitism to assimilation Le let's not let's not kid ourselves that's the reality and and you don't have to wear the yamaka and you don't have to wear the beard but you're a Jew when aw puts on a cfia and goes against his or her own soul and own jewishness there's a fire burning out there and I and I know politically and I'm not going into this because I'm not a politician you know right left Palestinians Arabs that's not where I'm coming from because that's not my forte but at the same time the Jewish soul is hungry for Judaism some level of Judaism some expression so kabad on campus sees the great assimilation and the great F spiritual fire burning and is here to stop that to prevent that and they're succeeding we'll say well there's thousands and hundred thousands of people who are still assimilated and not interested in Judaism you're right but how much more would be that way and slowly but surely through 950 campuses around the world they're making a big big dent and big impression at the same time I do say to my own brothers and S and sisters the kabad Niks provide more outlets for the more serious Orthodox students on campuses just like yava did and I say to them learn from yava learn from yava Who provided top teachers as as uh you know guest shabbatones scholarship and I and I know certain rabbis in kabad who of that level and at for example at Berkeley in the 70s rabim sitron who I know personally he's a massive Torah scholar and and and intelligent and knowledgeable and very well educated and that you know I've seen the results of that so I think that what people like the creers you know the new generation of kabad emissaries on the campuses need to think about to somehow provide a higher level of education for students who have that need and desire as well Point number three yava was modeled after the the litak approach to Torah kabad suggested theic path for its students listen you know we all come from certain communities certain areas the way you're raised Dr tal comes from ER from Israel it's a certain culture certain upbringing he presents what he presents it comes through I'm sure I'm not your student but at the end of the day one communicates culture I'm a very big believer and it's really a lot in my in my books is the cultural upbringing of an individual makes an impact how they ultimately communicate that information the yava organization primarily be because of Rabbi Pinas tits a blessed memory who was a a genius of Torah and a real leader and and really a chief Rabbi in in in in in in New Jersey and you know and the others that helped were all more on the litak side and that was its orientation is Russia Ukraine right cidic jewelry it's a different style you could say if if I won't get clobbered over my head more of a warm style okay more of an embracing style okay the litak way is more of an intellectual Style I think that makes a very big difference also in the type of teaching and the results and finally and I'll conclude with this yava owned no buildings barring one or two a few buildings kabad has kabad houses near college campuses on college campuses one near uh among the What's called the roar kabad Student Center buildings in many worldwide locations yav didn't I said a student organization didn't have money didn't didn't kind of set itself up that way kabad does it puts pressure on people like Rabbi and rabbitson creger they have to raise funds and uh we should support them and all of you out there should support your local kabar and campus Emissary but this idea of you know having a building having your own place having a kabad house a person like me they you know would have a difficulty being here if not for the creers they're hosting me hosting me providing meals you know making my life easier and I'm you know running here there lecturing this that really I I'm really thankful to the creers and I want to say a real big thank you to both of you and I really mean it and as I told Dane I hope to come back for another few weeks uh in a future time during the year and uh but their work consists of and I'm just using them an example you know to having the accessibility of an organization behind you yav chose not to be under an organization kabad campus emissaries are part of the kabad umbrella and it's very very powerful those are some of my conclusions so far for this book okay which has one chapter on yav and kabad on campus and uh the rest as we say in Hebrew there will be more time for more conclusions and you never know maybe some of them will be refuted and we'll have a whole different discourse and um I just conclude with what Dana and I briefly said this morning morning it's very important I am here to bridge people together I really am you mentioned data I'm probably the first kic Jew kabic Jew for sure probably the first kic Jew to ever be at the at the fellowship and that's historic and I believe an article's coming out today in the Israelite they interviewed me you me on that and I encourage you to to read the article but it's not a about me it's not about me it's about bringing people together and we have to stop this fighting and this this this narish guy nonsense this is the head of the reform movement here okay there there are major differences I'm not telling you anything new okay but look Dana and I are friends and we're all friends so you choose this I choose this he choose this she chooses this we got to bring people together enough with this fighting it could disagree and one says patrilineal descent is not acceptable and one says patrilineal sent is acceptable okay if you ask an orthodox Rabbi you know what he's going to tell you right it's not a secret right if you ask a reformed Rabbi you know what he's going to tell you or she's going to tell you in Orthodoxy we don't have Orthodox female rabbis even though Rabbi yitz Greenberg which by the way was one of the three um uh people who started yava YZ Greenberg in 1960 he was together with Rifka ties and Joel Joel LaVine so you know yets has created something called a Raba and again he he is you know that in the Orthodox World by most Orthodox rabbis and people it's not acceptable but it's did that and okay so the bottom line is let's let's let's work together let's fight commonality let's work together and and I really U encourage everyone as Dana and I have discussed come down to the archives and I'm serious no I'm very serious and and the library the CL Library here there's 5 600,000 books I yesterday I held a talet from 1519 in my hands and I was able you know when I hold a town with it's I know what a to it is I held one of the the toms that I studied when I was in Yeshiva and I held it in my hands and I was able to look at this and that things that maybe others don't recognize because they're not so familiar you know so bottom line is we have a gold mine here and we have to utilize it and God will help us to be together and to only have good happy occasions to celebrate together thank thank you thank you RI for your teaching and now we have we do have time for some questions and comments and I'll ask people online if anyone has any comments they'd like to make if you could raise your hand or just let us know and we'll uh R blow go ahead please when I stoed I doubted I realized that he did not really understand anything I was saying and I asked him not to quote me for that reason he's a very devoted laure person he did not get things straight what was very clear was that the Robert ji was thinking of doing something on campus and ask students who are actually doing something how we did it we were not against anyone in fact Rie dolin did not know this but one of our purposes was to bring Jews who had no knowledge at all into some kind of orbit where they could ask the questions that they had and we found that at Yak meetings that's exactly what happened at yna at Princeton if you would have read the history U but the Abnet at Princeton started in 1961 made a kosher kitchen and really was in the Vanguard of their being kosher food on campus the 50th anniversary celebration produced a booklet many many young men and women saying that the Friendship at yav the yna kitchen the yna house this is what brought them close and this is what many of them became show vot people observing with its vote people who went on to study to set up some kind of dichy between and is so far from what went and the Ry understood that we were very idealistic we were trying to both increase our knowledge make going to barard or Harvard or Yale a place where we could function and we could find each other we could learn together it was in fact a very interesting little note many many people married the person they met at yav so it was very good for the future as well and the fact that re y Greenberg was so active with us he was a terrific teacher he is a very idealistic man I don't agree with many of the things that he did but as rabie dolin said we each have our own way and I think that you have to do research very carefully and you have to pay attention to what people tell you so that you can give it accurately and this entire session I see a very Charming Man a very fine cussed a person who means well but he doesn't get it straight thank you thank you for your comments that's very helpful anyone else online would like to oh yes Joel who please introduce yourself and unmute yourself yeah Joel wski I just wanted toh second everything that RI could said okay Dr Sara please unmute yourself so first of all I've been associated with the archives for so many decades it is uh wonderful that we we have aabad representative um on I having written the introduction to Professor K's book and having been very friendly with him it does seem to me that there is something to be said for the litar influence on yavner uh it was initially correct me if I'm wrong but it was initially at uh really ivy league universities and very focused on the life of the mind and on Excellence uh less interested I think in the kind of spiritual um Feelgood ideas that would later come from kabad but the interesting question which I hope you can find in the archives or from kabad sources what did the ree learn from the meetings with leaders of Y remember at least according to pres Crow he initiated those meetings that is he called them what did he learn and there is a great difference and how did that difference come about kabad houses as Rabbi dolphin has explain have a a sort of in local parenes top down organization there's a rabbi and his wife and you come to that the fact that the white plays such an important role is interesting but that's entirely different as I understand it from yav which was really heavily led by empowered young people themselves and uh what I would love to understand is what did the Reby learn what did he reject how did the similarities and differences between Y and the kabad houses manifest themselves and what do we learn from those similarities and differences um and um even the question of a Lithuanian approach versus AIC approach it is I think the case that there was a shift broadly in Jewish Education from uh the one to the other we haven't picked it up you only need to read Joe reamer's article on the lithu Ian influence on Boston Jewish Education and uh look at the approach of Rabbi solic and contrasted in some ways to that of the rebi to see that difference so anyway I would welcome yours or others online who know y were part of it if they could talk about those similarities differences how they came about what their implications are uh I I see freda's hand up first rwis and then mosha R um I'd like to suggest three different things uh I was at Barnard in the late 60s coming myself from a house in a b school to Barnard yna offered me the opportunity to try to uh make a cohesive whole of the intellectual studies I was getting at Barnard with the judaic studies I had come from and which I continued to study while I was at that at barard in other places um the advantage of yava as Rifka said was there was no overbearing um insistence on observance people came for intellectual reasons it was a time that religious Jewish students were uh not coming to Elite universities in large numbers and they were looking for a place where they could find a um like I said a cohesive way to deal with what they were learning and where they came from the second thing I'd like to say is um when yava disbanded in the 80s there were two reasons for it one was that the volunteer background of the yna leaders of which I and my husband El Shalom were both so involved um people did not want to do this for various reasons voluntarily anymore they were getting paid for positions in various sorts in all sorts of Jewish organizations out um and Soviet jury came about which was a place where a lot of people felt they wanted to push their volunteer activities I will only say that I enjoyed my encounters with um Y and the teachers had brought to bold for me personally it was also a way to contrast and connect teachings of both the rebi and Rabbi salvic and I think that was true for other people as well thank you thank you Marty okay so uh I just wanted to point out two other princes although robbi dolphin indicated his uh views as to what differences were are would say I would concentrate on the fact that instead of having an upward um Administration or a renic even though we had a national Advisory board with Rabbi lamb me the from above uh the above more or less were influenced by us in other words and we were we were what was unique about Y is that the students by ciic non religious non all pro-israel all sorts of eclectic the fact that we were of different kinds that really caused us to uh to really uh uh interact in in a very vibrant way so we it was God forbid wasn't like we did not want we there was also Young Israel Young Israel was also on campuses there was Hill uh what we did is we had a unique contribution in that we the national Advisory Board we get together wowski Henry harl bless uh we would get together and discuss what kind of rabis would uh be uh lecturing at our events and we would have what we call righties and lefties we would have our professor wishingrad we would have nman bman we had Rabbi G thir Sal B in other words we we would discuss what kind of seminars we would have instead of the Ry or someone Rabbi lamb would never tell us uh what speakers we should have if anything at all came from within so that was the first point I want to make and the second point is that we prided ourselves in being a movement not an organization by definition as I think uh freedy just fra Fredy forgive me uh that uh that um that we uh we would only exist if we would uh be autonomous by ourselves as was pointed out we were even we were at 84 fth Avenue we were we had offices near the OU ncsy and all the influences we were independent and we did not want to be financially uh taken over we want them to have Independence because we felt we should only exist as long as we from within keep ourselves going if we don't have that feeling ofy ism is if that Vibrance that we had when we were in the 60s and the 70s didn't have it then we didn't deserve to continue so as opposed to organization we're an organization by definition is you know structural will continue even if to a certain extent even die so I just want to thank Rabbi dolphin who uh I think is uh Reviving estimation you know how many people would even talk about y uh the fact that mentions us I think is uh also RFA Joel and Fred would keep things hon and uh again my blessings to all of you from Jerusalem thank you thank you Donna yes St I just wanted to add something to Dr s said who speak Dr yeah I I can't I wasn't one of the people that spoke with the re I think just re we know bad I don't think the re was asking for advice from y I think he was a person who could took information from lots of different places he was he was a person who searched for information who searched for understanding so of course he invited the op people to come in and tell him what they thought so he had more information in which he should should develop his own ideas and his own thoughts that's what that's what do that's what good that's what Gan do secular and unsecular he didn't come to want know that this University students should give him advice he came to people he's not on campus they're on campus he'd like to hear what they to say about what's on campus so he could think about it that's what we would expect from someone of his character and someone of his intelligence and someone of his searching mind to have on that so I wouldn't expect him to write afterwards and I learned this from these people and those people and those people I don't think that's the way people I don't think that's the way people get that information on that and I I think encouraged to Mar said y y didn't die because of something y had a meet had a meeting for people that have a certain need when that need was being met unlike other organizations they didn't come and say how can we stay here and find other things to do they said what we wanted to do we did and then they ended that was a new experience in Jewish Education to be able to do you know there's in the uh the information Onish that they the first thing they say when they went to visit the dead when they went to visit the dead person to collect the B they used to say do T says you are dead we have come to we have come to help you I have a friend a close friend whose father was very much involved in Jewish organizations andas he said Jewish organizations need be to say to that you did what you had to doise you don't have to you don't have to find an invention what you're say you shouldn't be saying that here about H in h say do something I think that I think that that explains you out there in every in every which way have needs these people had needs those needs were met there were other needs that people had so they'll for another organization to do it y didn't have to become a m person didn't have to become AIC person a liage person it was meeting the needs of people at that moment why do these people have nothing they had kosher kitchens after they had learning after they had all these things that you have to provided thank you very much you gave us what we needed now we're finished I don't think it's very surprising I think that's what organization should work at should be able to do I I don't understand that's a than you thank you very much I'll give the last online word to Rifka and then we'll turn it to people here yeah we want to hear from the people here ahead go ahead just just quickly I I remember that Joel told that story many times at Ynet to say that we should not become like a A and C different organizations that went on and on if we got people to learn if we got contitions if we stopped having trouble with exams on shabas and on yanis if we um made it clear that uh observant students could function on campus that was the purpose it was done and their prna ended I have to add two things there were other people active in the founding of Ynet I must mention um Michael hin whose son is now in a very important position in um diplomacy I have to mentioned Steve Gilman who became became a professor of Russian studies at University of Michigan and specialized in things dealing with Russian jewelry they were a lot of wonderful people who participated the reason Joel and I were invited by the Reby was that he was the president and I was the vice president there was a friendship between Reby and my father there was a friendship among all these people to say that Rabbi gifter or Rabbi Cutler or Rabbi rman was averse to Ynet they were not they felt that y was important for people who were in college if they weren't encouraging people to go to college that was one thing but they saw that those who are going to be in college needed something like Ynet so let's not cast aspersions on anybody from any part of the Jewish Community thank you Susie I I see your hand up but I do want to I do want to give some time uh quickly to people here and then uh I'm sure we can continue Rabbi dolphin I'm sure would accept emails and and calls uh if you have further comments but I did want to turn it to people here in the audience if you have any questions but why don't you let Susie just well let's just do it here and then we'll we go back yeah Michael Dr Meer um you mentioned uh Rabbi Dophin that you found a gold mine here so my question for you is have you mined any gold since you've been here and what have you found that might have influenced the views with which you came or or something of a novelty of which you were not aware in the uh Rabbi Alexander Schindler file I found the back end of the who is a Jew controversy of the 1970s and 80s I um I grew up with the rebi in Brooklyn I heard him speak about this issue almost every time he spoke the other Orthodox movement known as aat is was also very vocal on this issue and I never really I knew that the reform movement and its rabbis were had a different opinion but I never saw I never saw and their their story as far as you know Det detail and going into the Schindler files just as an example Dr mayor uh I found a lot of material I had it scanned and uh what I do here is I scan things get things scanned when I get back to New York I have months and time to unravel and to see what we can do with it so that's one thing that I found that uh interested me great anything with regard to yav Orab I'm sorry no that has nothing to do with yav kabad did you find anything relating to that yeah I found a little bit but as I was telling uh Dana this morning and Dr Sara and I spoke about it yesterday Steve um he's uh one of the archist one archists uh says I have all these boxes and you know it's all the meetings all of you guys all your meetings in front of me all 60s 70s all your handwriting all of you it's there okay you're sitting in Jerusalem and I see your handwriting I told Marty that yesterday but Benny's file of how he wrote this book The Greening of American Jewish Orthodox Judaism is not here at least Steve and I can't find it it's in the library no well the book is the book is here where is the archive and uh Dr sarna and I seem to conclude at least it's not here and well sounds like some of it may be some of it's here well well yes of of course some of it's here but but not all of it not not all of it or no but Dr sarna pointed out is it could be he had another another archive file that crowd it's not in the it's not in the footnotes in the bibliography they're not cited they weren't not citations his materials for a long time were in his garage oh and so that's the question SP to his widow I spoke to the Widow and she she didn't I spoke to her yeah for sure she wasn't didn't know didn't know much where where then he then he says what the issues was then he writes it he says the Y stuff was going to be thrown out he saved it the other part was he didn't he was came at the last minute and took whatever find you're not following no you're not that's the they not following there nothing else there was other stuff that some janitor had thrown out before Benny got there yeah but I'm not I'm talking about he writes that in his book uh Dr SAR could would you explain it to to him I I I I'm not explaining myself well the file of that Benny used for his book where is that file I look through the archives here you you asked me about um Benny Crow's own notes right which any what creates in writing a book and they might be in his own private archive right archive that he had in his garage so far as I know with the yna paper okay and that we have the primary s and not necessarily the additional research thinking books that he read of Professor K which uh would be a perhaps in the crowd archive if it exist but I have to say every researcher finds gaps in the research record there's nothing surprising that we had in this case and I think we're lucky and our gratitude to Professor Crow Shalom who saved and rescued absolutely so Steve Khan just said that maybe Dr Celia Dr Roger Celia here in Cincinnati may have some material so we can put you in touch with Dr Celia please uh Dr mayor did I uh address your question okay anyone else anyone else here if not we'll turn it over to Susie I know she had her hand up who is Susie Susie go ahead and introduce unmute yourself and introduce yourself please okay suy shelman Sensi I was on the national board for several years um as I I just I don't think this was mentioned before that a primary motivation in Yap no learning was to bring the level of learning of unish pay up to and to continue with the same level of learning that was going on in the universities you can't and and the feeling that if you keep on learning at a high level in your secul studies and your religious studies are somewhere left you know with what you had in high school that you're going to have a problem and that that was one of the motivating factors I just wanted to say that and I don't think it was a question of of lit buuck or aish it was just a question of um deepening our knowledge U to bring it up to that level and the other thing I wanted to say that to me it was a very spiritual experience as well uh the ru the singing the whole spiritual aspect was also even though there was a a lot of learning lot of intellectuality there was also a lot of singing a lot of dancing until this day I still remember the um the um the weekend that we had in ashkash Wisconsin I think it was 1963 I think we were dancing with RBI Greenberg for about an hour or two to one NE and I'll never forget it it was very powerful and very strong and so it wasn't just a question of intellectuality I it's important to thank you yes frea go ahead unmute yourself unmute yourself please one I want to note the presence of Larry Cobin who was an integral part of yagna for many many years before I got there and after um I don't remember Larry whether you were on the board or not but you were an important sounding board for um Henry and for many other officers on the uh national board and for me as well when I got there and I just wanted to say it's very nice to see this collection of faces which I don't often get to see at the same time including jonath and Sara uh we both shared a very strong friendship ship with Benny and um I remember Benny collecting the 17 boxes of yagna papers and I will check indeed with Penny if she knows where any of them are the second thing I wanted to say was that the op educational team made a point of bringing up issues um that we're not always on the agenda I remember the first leadership seminar that I went to was a discussion on yoshia if you think I had thought about it at all even though I came from a kabad background you're wrong and to spend 24 hours with various kinds of people discussing this Jewish idea in 1967 post The Six Day War um was a treat a surprise and part of what uh ins sconed me into as Susie said not just an intellectual experience um but the gamut of the spirituality and the intellectuality and the openness uh to people on the Spectrum that's all I wanted to say Lawrence if you want to say something quickly we just have about two minutes left before the zoom call I I I would just add uh as a footnote to what rif ti said one of the areas that yma went out of business because others took over was the area of post High School Educational opportunities for people in Israel I was sent at some point in the 1960s they paid for my ticket to go to Israel to try to persuade the Jewish agency and the manala student him to give the same support to American High School graduates as they were giving to asra students in manala Yesa if they would go to Yesa nothing happened then but but eventually the yibo themselves realized that this was a gold a golden opportunity because they could charge students who were coming for the year after high school and before college for what we now consider a gap year they could charge them half what they would be spending in college or what they had spent in high school and which was a fortune in Israeli terms so the whole development of uh programs and there are now dozens of them for Americans coming to Israel for a gap year was really energized and pushed a little bit by yaa once the economics took over there was no further need for yasa to push because the thing took on its own thing so I think it's another a great example of something in which y the planted the seed and Community factors or economic factors took over as well so than thank you again we're so happy to have you uh join us today I hope this conversation continues we're going to have to say goodbye because the zoom recording will end in a moment but um thank you so much and and again thank you Rabbi dolphin for this you're welcome for the opportunity thank you bye everyone you